NieR: Automata Spoiler Thread

Which asks us why do we do the same, really. I meant it more that finding meaning in the meaninglessness is very human.
 
KO Traveling Hobo said:
I wish the montage of 9S deaths included a few scenes from before the game to emphasize that this is something that keeps happening.
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I agree. The first scene doesn't even count as her killing him, it's actually 9S who suggests blowing themselves up, if they didn't he (and she as well) would've died regardless.
The second time she does it because he's being hacked, not because he knows too much.

It really does a poor job of getting the point across, I was pretty confused and thought exactly the same thing, that they should've shown events prior to the game of her killing him repeatedly.
 
I agree, but I don't think it's meant to show 2B killing him, but the times that she hated having to kill him. Which is why she was freaking about 9S dying during the first scene even though during that time you have no context as to why, because she was acting pretty cold towards him from the start, and the 2nd time it showed why she stated "It always ends like this"

So yeah, could be shown better for sure, but I think it's meant to show her anguish more than the cycles explicitly.
 
Dragon1893 said:
I agree. The first scene doesn't even count as her killing him, it's actually 9S who suggests blowing themselves up, if they didn't he (and she as well) would've died regardless.
The second time she does it because he's being hacked, not because he knows too much.

It really does a poor job of getting the point across, I was pretty confused and thought exactly the same thing, that they should've shown events prior to the game of her killing him repeatedly.
Click to expand...

I mean, the game just preferred that you put 2 and 2 together. Maybe it thought it'd be weird to just show some random scene where she kills him that we've never seen before.

The first one where they blow themselves up, I'm sure most of us were wondering how she got so attached to him in such a short period of time. Then back on the bunker, they greet each and do the whole "Glory to Mankind" thing, she tightens her fist a bit. She's mad that 9S lost his memories yet again.

The 2nd time she's crying over having to kill 9S, saying "It always ends like this." Her having to assassinate him or not, him dying and losing his memories just sucks. Her having to kill him sucks. It all just sucks.
 
I kind of agree that it could have been a bit more explicit? Maybe just the voice samples of 2B during those scenes would have gotten the point across better while still being somewhat subtle?
 
RE: Killing 9S, I think it's less about showing her role as 2E and more about recontextualizing the times 2B had to kill him and the feelings she had in those moments.

Related, to what extent did 2B know 'the truth'? My feeling is she actually knew as much as the Commander does (about Mankind being extinct), and that she would've had to kill 9S in the C/D/E route in the bunker if he had let on knowing it.

I'm guessing the 'him' obliquely referenced in material is Gestalt Nier, right? That's the only thing that would make sense to me (in regards to the machine-lifeforms).
 
That's why I think working vague flashbacks into Route B which make sense in hindsight as times 2B killed 9S (as in The Memory Cage + Thorn) would be a good compromise - it works to set things up while not being quite as blunt as accompanying the actual sentence with a reel of previously unseen 9S deaths. There's a bit of explicit foreshadowing in there already, but that would work more to build the groundwork for 9S having some recognition of the past iterations rather than just the plot device in itself - as well as making use of the gameplay function of Route B retreading the beats of Route A.
 
Kinda curious what Yoko Taro would think of Spec Ops The Line. I think he'd be into what it does with challenging why people play games, going off of some of the stuff he's talked about in interviews. Also just how it plays around with the fact that it's a video game.
 
ScherzoPrime said:
Related, to what extent did 2B know 'the truth'? My feeling is she actually knew as much as the commander
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2B didn't know anything. All that would happen is she gets told via mail or mission details that 9S has illegally obtained classified Intel and that she has orders to take him out. She's not made to ask why after all
 
nemisis0 said:
Can anyone explain to me ending E please?
Click to expand...

Memory's shaky, but:

The endgame of Project YoRHa is occurring, where the pods are gathering data from this current generation of androids to later on use to built the next generation of androids, or something along those lines. They planned on doing this after the Bunker was destroyed.

As this is happening, Pod 042 and Pod 153 see the data/memories or whatever for 2B, 9S, and A2. Throughout the course of the game, they have grown rather fond of their android companions, and have gained a will of sorts as a result. (We see gradual evidence of this from the pods' isolated conversations with one another) Said will drives them to basically say fuck this, that neither they nor us (the players) want this terrible ending where our beloved androids are either all dead or miserable.

From that point, we enter a hacking sequence, where it gets all meta as we are fighting the credits of the game, the "gods" that created NieR: Automata. It's hard as fuck, and you keep dying, over and over again. The game repeatedly asks you if you're giving up, but you of course say no in order to proceed.

Having your network turned on eventually lets people around the world come to your aid, allowing you to defeat the credits, allowing you to earn that happy ending.

So that's a success, and the pods go ahead and recreate the android trio, with their memories intact. They sincerely hope that with this defiance against Project YoRHA, our androids will hopefully find a way to break the cycle of war and violence that they have been trapped in. Maybe nothing will ultimately change, but they wanted to try anyways.

After that, Pod 042 reveals that the only reason you were able to get through this is because people around the world helped you, and they gave up their save files in order to do just that. Then you get the option to do it yourself.

The End.
 
Ruff said:
2B didn't know anything. All that would happen is she gets told via mail or mission details that 9S has illegally obtained classified Intel and that she has orders to take him out. She's not made to ask why after all
Click to expand...

At least some of those times, 9S would have had to relay the information to her personally. Though if they can reset incriminating memories just from run-ins with A2; I guess they could curate any possibility of her retaining 9S' discoveries.
 
Golnei said:
At least some of those times, 9S would have had to relay the information to her personally. Though if they can reset incriminating memories just from run-ins with A2; I guess they could curate any possibility of her retaining 9S' discoveries.
Click to expand...

I think her knowing makes more sense, or at least 'knowing' in an ineffable sense even if she doesn't literally know. Her clutching her fist when 9S goes 'Glory to Mankind' to me implies that she recognizes the irony in that.

Anyways, this has made me think of the Voltaire Quote: "If there was no God, it would be necessary to invent him". Here's a link to a discussion about that: https://www.quora.com/What-did-Volt...not-exist-it-would-be-necessary-to-invent-him
 
Ruff said:
2B didn't know anything. All that would happen is she gets told via mail or mission details that 9S has illegally obtained classified Intel and that she has orders to take him out. She's not made to ask why after all
Click to expand...
I don't buy that. There are plenty of things that indicate/implicate that 2B is in the know about the stuff.
 
Ok that Plato 1728 thing was just weird, watching a whole bunch of dolla getting destroyed lol. Shame for Plato though.

Edit - I see it is a new ending after ending Z so tied in with the dlc? It did pop up after I completed the 3 dlc areas.
 
Ruff said:
Why would they constantly kill 9S for knowing even a small amount of truth but allow 2B to go around knowing all the facts though?
Click to expand...

Well...there's a couple of reasons as to why that may be:

-2B knows better than anyone that YorHa sends assassins after deserters. If she decided to take 9S and run, they'd both constantly be in danger of being killed off for good. And the Commander knows that she knows and that 2B has a dutiful and stoic personality in contrast to 9S's stubborn and curious one. She probably thinks the threat of either of them being killed off permanently is enough to keep 2B in line, while impulsive and emotional 9S would need a reset. 2B is controllable. 9S, not so much.

-Plus, one of the main themes of the game is how people cling to institutions to give structure and a purpose to their meaningless lives. 2B's sense of decorum and duty keep her attached to the status quo. Her and 9S are treading water, but at the beginning of the story, they might've felt that sticking to what they knew was better than taking a chance on terrifying unknowns. 2B finally strikes off on her own in one of the joke endings and is happier for it, but coming to the realization that you'd be better off leaving behind the institutions that you grew up with can be really hard.

-The Commander has good reason to believe that 9S's has the potential to do something severely damaging with the knowledge of YorHa's secrets. 9S's predecessor, #9 lashed out and killed YorHa's head designer and scientist when he found out the secret that their Black Boxes consisted of material cribbed from machine lifeform cores. In contrast, 2B's predecessor, #2, killed #9 to stop him from hurting anyone else. So while 9S could end up acting out in a way that could be severely detrimental while being caught up in an emotion, 2B can keep a level head and has the ability to stop him, even if he goes out of control.

I don't think 2B knows all the facts, though. In one of the concert stage plays, it's implied that 2B kills 9S after he shares with her some forbidden intel. There's no saying what the secret he shared with her was, though.
 
I wonder if command was banking on attachment to keep 2E from ratting them out. Like, the other E unit we know in this game grew insane because of her own attachments also. And we know from the E-drugs story that Androids are programmed to feel ecstasy and joy from combat, so maybe E units have something similar that causes them to grow attached to their mark?

Which would be... pretty twisted.
 
LotusHD said:
Memory's shaky, but:

The endgame of Project YoRHa is occurring, where the pods are gathering data from this current generation of androids to later on use to built the next generation of androids, or something along those lines. They planned on doing this after the Bunker was destroyed.

As this is happening, Pod 042 and Pod 153 see the data/memories or whatever for 2B, 9S, and A2. Throughout the course of the game, they have grown rather fond of their android companions, and have gained a will of sorts as a result. (We see gradual evidence of this from the pods' isolated conversations with one another) Said will drives them to basically say fuck this, that neither they nor us (the players) want this terrible ending where our beloved androids are either all dead or miserable.

From that point, we enter a hacking sequence, where it gets all meta as we are fighting the credits of the game, the "gods" that created NieR: Automata. It's hard as fuck, and you keep dying, over and over again. The game repeatedly asks you if you're giving up, but you of course say no in order to proceed.

Having your network turned on eventually lets people around the world come to your aid, allowing you to defeat the credits, allowing you to earn that happy ending.

So that's a success, and the pods go ahead and recreate the android trio, with their memories intact. They sincerely hope that with this defiance against Project YoRHA, our androids will hopefully find a way to break the cycle of war and violence that they have been trapped in. Maybe nothing will ultimately change, but they wanted to try anyways.

After that, Pod 042 reveals that the only reason you were able to get through this is because people around the world helped you, and they gave up their save files in order to do just that. Then you get the option to do it yourself.

The End.
Click to expand...


Thanks for that :)
 
I guess one thing I'm curious about is do you think Taro outright condemns institutions as false idols, or simply feels conflicting things about them? I feel like with religion in particular he has mixed feelings about; recognizes the warmth and sense of meaning it can give people, but also being unable to overlook its inherent absurdity and the wanton cruelty and oppression it is often capable of engendering.
 
KO Traveling Hobo said:
2B is the consummate soldier. 9S is a nosy little dweeb.
Click to expand...

Basically.

Antiwhippy said:
I wonder if command was banking on attachment to keep 2E from ratting them out. Like, the other E unit we know in this game grew insane because of her own attachments also. And we know from the E-drugs story that Androids are programmed to feel ecstasy and joy from combat, so maybe E units have something similar that causes them to grow attached to their mark?

Which would be... pretty twisted.
Click to expand...

Hm... well, in the Memory Cage, 2B does get the rush from killing 9S, but it seems to fade fast and her emotional distress takes the forefront by the time she disposes of the body. She also mentions that what she feels for 9S is different compared to all the other friends she's had to kill...

I think you're right about 2B not doing anything with what she knows for 9S's sake, but I think the affection they share is actually pretty rare. The red-hooded executioner did bond with her marks, but in her case, it started out as a strategy to get these deserters to trust her enough to get close. In 2B's case, looking at the Memory novellas, 2B's and 9S's bond seems almost like an accident. 9S notes that 2B tries to be cold, but is actually pretty lousy at hiding her genuine tenderness. So being 9S's stoic killer was the goal, but she falls short every time.

I thought of another reason for Command letting 2B and 9S get away with so much. (2B with her memories and 9S being rebuilt all the time.) There's also the big possibility that the Commander believes running an airtight military company is not the point. The YorHa stage play is all about how fighting the machine lifeforms isn't about winning back enemy territory, but for gathering data so they can improve the next generation of androids. So YorHa is more like a big experiment than a mercenary group. The goal for both the Network and the Androids is to evolve and become more human-like and YorHa is designed to be mutually beneficial on that matter.

The Commander has given some cruel orders for the sake of this goal, but it's hinted that she's actually quite compassionate. Maybe she thinks putting unreal pressure on 2B and 9S would force them to develop in such a way that they would be both closer to being human and strong enough to live on Earth, in spite of both the machines and androids what could get in their way? Instead of just using them as lab rats like she did with other models in the past, maybe she began to see 2B and 9S as the ones with the potential to find a way to develop past their original designs, by virtue of their unusually strong bond. In the play, she's quite cold, but in the game, she's invested in 9S's and 2B's wellbeing in spite of what she put them through. Maybe if they can grow into more human-like beings, she thinks all the pain would be worth it. YorHa were never meant to have the same value and potential as a "real" android, but maybe the Commander thinks that 9S and 2B can prove everyone else wrong.

Maybe it helps that their predecessors were #2 and #9. #2 and #9 seemed interested in doing human-like things like chatting to kill time and asking questions that other YorHa didn't seem to be interested in. They even wanted real names like humans and androids had. Maybe Command is putting them through the wringer while keeping a close eye on them, since they know about their potential.
 
And you know where that got him? Head rolling on the floor as his followers formed an insane death cult. >_> <_<

I dunno, Theistic existentialism always seems weirdly contradictory to me.

avrophantasm said:
Basically.



Hm... well, in the Memory Cage, 2B does get the rush from killing 9S, but it seems to fade fast and her emotional distress takes the forefront by the time she disposes of the body. She also mentions that what she feels for 9S is different compared to all the other friends she's had to kill...

I think you're right about 2B not doing anything with what she knows for 9S's sake, but I think the affection they share is actually pretty rare. The red-hooded executioner did bond with her marks, but in her case, it started out as a strategy to get these deserters to trust her enough to get close. In 2B's case, looking at the Memory novellas, 2B's and 9S's bond seems almost like an accident. 9S notes that 2B tries to be cold, but is actually pretty lousy at hiding her genuine tenderness. So being 9S's stoic killer was the goal, but she falls short every time.

I thought of another reason for Command letting 2B and 9S get away with so much. (2B with her memories and 9S being rebuilt all the time.) There's also the big possibility that the Commander believes running an airtight military company is not the point. The YorHa stage play is all about how fighting the machine lifeforms isn't about winning back enemy territory, but for gathering data so they can improve the next generation of androids. So YorHa is more like a big experiment than a mercenary group. The goal for both the Network and the Androids is to evolve and become more human-like and YorHa is designed to be mutually beneficial on that matter.

The Commander has given some cruel orders for the sake of this goal, but it's hinted that she's actually quite compassionate. Maybe she thinks putting unreal pressure on 2B and 9S would force them to develop in such a way that they would be both closer to being human and strong enough to live on Earth, in spite of both the machines and androids what could get in their way? Instead of just using them as lab rats like she did with other models in the past, maybe she began to see 2B and 9S as the ones with the potential to find a way to develop past their original designs, by virtue of their unusually strong bond. In the play, she's quite cold, but in the game, she's invested in 9S's and 2B's wellbeing in spite of what she put them through. Maybe if they can grow into more human-like beings, she thinks all the pain would be worth it. YorHa were never meant to have the same value and potential as a "real" android, but maybe the Commander thinks that 9S and 2B can prove everyone else wrong.

Maybe it helps that their predecessors were #2 and #9. #2 and #9 seemed interested in doing human-like things like chatting to kill time and asking questions that other YorHa didn't seem to be interested in. They even wanted real names like humans and androids had. Maybe Command is putting them through the wringer while keeping a close eye on them, since they know about their potential.
Click to expand...

That's a good point. If YorHa's data is meant to be passed along the next generation of androids maybe 2B/9S can be considered an evolutionary branch, just like how the machine lifeforms broke various machines to do their own thing.

Only to deconstruct and reabsorb the knowledge they gained at the end....

They really are alike!
 
Hi - Dcharlie here - long term residents might remember me from such threads as "why Sony suck so much dick" or classics like "omg this game looks like a dream cast game"


Anyways - so Nier ... or before we start ... me ...

I've become over the last 5 years a lapsed gamer - kids, family, career ... I've been struggling to find any game that can hold my attention for more than a few minutes let alone hours so I bought Nier in the expectation it would warm my gaming shelf whilst - I dunno - I eventually win the lottery ?

But holy shit

Holy fucking shit

This game grabbed me and didn't let go all the way to the delete save (which having knowledge of previous games I USB stick insured myself)

But hot pop tart Jesus if this isn't the best game ever made - I'm just lost as to what to do next now E has been cleared ....

God damn what a game - the metaphors are heavy in the end section and , yeah, when the choir kicks in at the end and then your brain makes the connection as the text "ganbare" rain in ... Jesus ....

The best game ever made - a masterpiece
 
So a couple of new thoughts from replaying: how was 2B infected? Did she have the logic virus dormant within her? Or was she just weakened by her crash?

Also curious if the Council of Humanity message that plays as you play as 2B for the last time is automated nonsense or whether it's announcing production of the Post-YoRHa androids.

Also just noticed that A2 has the same beauty mark as 2B.
 
DCharlie said:
But hot pop tart Jesus if this isn't the best game ever made - I'm just lost as to what to do next now E has been cleared ....
Click to expand...

You have to live in the Spoiler Thread for the next month or so now

ScherzoPrime said:
So a couple of new thoughts from replaying: how was 2B infected? Did she have the logic virus dormant within her? Or was she just weakened by her crash?

Also curious if the Council of Humanity message that plays as you play as 2B for the last time is automated nonsense or whether it's announcing production of the Post-YoRHa androids.
Click to expand...

She got infected like everyone else due to being connected to their network. It only took longer to begin infecting her because 9S desynced her like halfway in after he made sure he wasn't connected.
 
DCharlie said:
This game grabbed me and didn't let go all the way to the delete save (which having knowledge of previous games I USB stick insured myself)
Click to expand...

I can only speak for myself, since I had thoughts to make a backup save before I went any further when I got to ending E. But I was sitting there thinking it would cheapen my experience in the game.

After all, no such opportunity was afforded to A2 when she sacrificed herself.
 
I think the infection is also a proximity thing, and that's why 2b took control of 9s's flight unit to send him away.
 
SkyTurnsRed said:
Why did the aliens invade the Earth when there were no humans there?
Click to expand...

It's unclear if they even realised humanity existed before invading Earth - from Adam's comments, it sounds like they were driven to expand and colonise as an almost autonomous process, rather than being specifically targeted towards wiping out humanity.
 
LotusHD said:
Why do humans need to be there
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Golnei said:
It's unclear if they even realised humanity existed before invading Earth - from Adam's comments, it sounds like they were driven to expand and colonise as an almost autonomous process, rather than being specifically targeted towards wiping out humanity.
Click to expand...
Fair points. Thank you. :)

Also, if the aliens invaded while Androids were there, at that point, how could they possibly lie about fighting the aliens for the human's sake, when they already knew humans didn't exist at that point?
 
SkyTurnsRed said:
Fair points. Thank you. :)

Also, if the aliens invaded while Androids were there, at that point, how could they possibly lie about fighting the aliens for the human's sake, when they already knew humans didn't exist at that point?
Click to expand...

Who, the androids? The failure of the Replicant system didn't happen overnight, and the recalling of the Devola and Popola models along with the establishment of the moon server happened while the last of the Gestalts were still dying out - at least that's the interpretation I took from it. The YoRHa project would have been making the rumour about the moon's human population concrete and unfalsifiable; not inventing it from whole cloth.
 
SkyTurnsRed said:
Fair points. Thank you. :)

Also, if the aliens invaded while Androids were there, at that point, how could they possibly lie about fighting the aliens for the human's sake, when they already knew humans didn't exist at that point?
Click to expand...

If something like Porject YorHa can re-establish faith in Humanity's survival the androids probably did not have a concrete knowledge that all human are dead.

I need a more concrete timeline though to establish when the aliens invaded and when the androids started losing faith.
 
spiritfox said:
Just because god doesn't exist doesn't mean you cannot create a lie to give you a reason to fight for what you want.
Click to expand...

But when dealing with a society of androids, you do need to have some (apparent) factual basis for your lies - thankfully, it's possible to edit out inconvenient memories when given the opportunity. The setup of the YoRHa project wouldn't have been so drastic if it wasn't necessary to completely cement their deception.
 
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