Dragon Ball Super |OT6| Put your back into it.
- Thread starter ArchedThunder
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This is your first problem. Power scaling is still a thing no matter how fans tried to deny it.
The level of Super Saiyan God is immense. Ultimate Gohan got bodied by Beerus in one hit. Super Saiyan God Goku took hits from Beerus and could hurt him. Ultimate was never even closed to being the level of Super Saiyan God. Even Vegeta going rage mode can't compared to it.
Holding his own against Goku =/= surpassing Goku.
And in the preview all we saw was SS2 Goku, who knows if Goku will actually go Blue against Gohan.
That's not how timelines work. There isn't such timeline.
And while being destroyed might be preferable to being stuck in Earth's hell, you know what's preferable to both ? Not being in Earth's hell and not being destroyed....
We'll see.
I doubt they would say that Gohan held his own against Goku if he was mere Super Saiyan 2. But they have trolled us before so who knows.
Because Beerus took him out in one hit lol
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Super has done a really good job of making Vegeta seem competent again. After his defeat in the Saiyan arc in DBZ, aside from being a badass on Namek for a short while, most of his screen time was spent jobbing or being second fiddle to Goku. It's easy to forget he's actually an extremely capable warrior and that his arrogance and pride stems from that while watching most of Z. RoF was amazing for him, even if he didn't get the kill in the end.
He had no bang, so it was just his base form (talking about the super version, not the movie version).
Joking aside, Gohan was probably already much weaker by then (though still there's no way that Buu saga ultimate Gohan matches SSG).
Fair enough.
But that's just because Toriyama forgot. Having him be Ultimate in the movie was a mistake.
Still, this was when Gohan had been doing nothing but reading books for a few years, not training with new resolve Gohan as he is now.
Stop raining on the Ultimate revival parade, guys, it's too good. Too damn long overdue.
Broly, the worst character across all universes is cannonized
28 planets (Still too many for shin-"what are metalmen?" and his ancient team of kais to keep up with)
Everyone has conveniently been training their asses off in secret
Power ups for everybody
Buu teased for two tournaments just to be sacked again for more unoriginality
This arc is killing me. The best parts have been the scenes that take place in the other universes which seem to have been kept at a minimum so far.
frieza revived...Notthisshitagain.jpg
Everyone has conveniently been training their asses off in secret
Power ups for everybody
Buu teased for two tournaments just to be sacked again for more unoriginality
This arc is killing me. The best parts have been the scenes that take place in the other universes which seem to have been kept at a minimum so far.
Fair enough.
But that's just because Toriyama forgot. Having him be Ultimate in the movie was a mistake.
Still, this was when Gohan had been doing nothing but reading books for a few years, not training with new resolve Gohan as he is now.
Stop raining on the Ultimate revival parade, guys, it's too good. Too damn long overdue.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
What about the beatdown he gave Black in return, the fact that he technically beat Freeza, or his mentor fight with Cabba? He doesn't have a perfect record, but he's not losing left and right like he used to.
Youre exagerating but theres some truth. Youre missing a lot thats happened though. Id rather have classic characters brought back. The Frieza thing is okay imo since he's not returning as a villain. The power up thing is for people who argue about power levels, im choosing to ignore it.
NeonZ
Member
Vegeto was stronger than Buuhan and Goku mentions that SSJ God is above any previous power he had ever seen. The official summaries themselves say that Gohan is stronger than he ever was before.
It's kind of weird how they're treating Ultimate now like it were a new power up, even while directly acknowledging that Gohan had it before.
Icyflamez96
Member
Exactly what I was going to say. The latter quality outweighs the former imo. This makes things more interesting.
We will see. I guess I'll grow used to the idea by next week.
I wanted Gohan up there, but... I have a lot of issues with how they're handling this...
It was already terrible with 17's lack of exposition, but this is taking the cake.
For 17 there was no explanation given, so while that's terrible writing, you can always try to rationalize it yourself in your head, there's mystery to his biology too that helps support it. But for Gohan, the explanation is "he powered up to get his mystic form back then trained with Piccolo for 3 hours and surpassed Goku". There are so many wrong things with this, that I can't rationalize it at all.
It's starting to hurt my enjoyment...
Oh well hopefully the action will be good.
So... It sounds like you finally see why so many are having a hard time with this arc.
Now Roshi can hold his own against base form Goku? There's just too much bullshit to handle.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
His timid nature gets old. Too many episodes would revolve around getting him to overcome his lack of confidence blah blah blah.
Otherwise I'd say yea.
LSauchelli
Member
We know Gohan was stronger than SSJ3 Goku during the Buu saga, yes. But we also know that Vegetto was stronger than Gohan, too (just looking at how the whole thing happened, this is pretty clear). We also know that Goku thought that Beerus was way too strong and not even Vegetto would be a match for him.
So, Super Saiyan God Goku is at least as strong as Vegetto during the Buu Saga, but is probably even stronger. Current Super Saiyan Blue Goku is even stronger than that.
Gohan needs a hell of a power up to get stronger than Goku. I hope they explain it with the The Room of Spirit and Time, otherwise it doesn't make a lot of sense.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
Gohan's going to get close to SSblue when he fights goku, but will exhaust his power to the point he can't enter the tournament and they'll only have one senzu left which they'll give to goku. Heh
Edit: I hate autocorrect sometimes
Edit: I hate autocorrect sometimes
shadowsdarknes
Member
Goku acknowledged that fusion with Vegeta wouldn't be enough to take Beerus. Goku only knew Beerus' power to the extent that he beat himself at SSJ3 Goku. Goku had no idea how strong Beerus actually was until Beerus started hitting back during the SSJ God fight. And even then, Beerus was holding back a ton.
But we know that Vegito >> Mystic Gohan.
Also, Gohan got whooped by Beerus and was unimpressed with Gohan. Gohan didn't go SSJ against him presumably because he was using his Mystic form.
bennywhatever
Member
I love power level discussions. Nothing like a good shakeup to get them going.
Also,
Also,
man, the dragon ball creators have such a massive freaking hardon for Frieza. wtf.
Gohan had been training with Piccolo for a while right. I don't think it is that implausible that labors of his training didn't really pay off till after ep 89, thus the dramatic jumps. Also, we don't really know that he hadn't gotten way stronger before. He was just always weaker than Goku who I think is ridic strong even in his base form these days.
NeonZ
Member
The current arc seems to be saying that he was never Ultimate after the Buu Saga though, which is a way of raising the form's ceiling. But it still runs into the issue of Vegeto vs Buuhan and Goku's statements in BoGs, which so far seem to be just ignored.
This is partly why I struggle to watch this topic because seeing the sort of logic people try and view with these characters nowadays feels so forced at this point, and not even fun.
Granted, this was likely always the case with an author who has memory problems bordering on illness and develops the plot based on easy excuses. (But is largely saved by great ideas)
RocknRola
Member
We're on our 6th OT and I bet 50% of the discussion WAS power level related hehe
You're probably underestimating that number.
But, me personally, I love the fact that this arc is resetting the playing field to where power is trumped by skill, so people matter without being a Super Saiyan with changing hair colors.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Me, personally, I love super saiyans.
In the anime/Super version, Gohan didn't have the bang, so he was just in his base form.
the way I see it
-Mystic is now a transformation. Like SSJ, this means it is a multiplier
-Gohan has been training with Piccolo and his base form is beyond what it was during Buu or Beerus. this training started after RoF and has continued until now -even Goku stopped training a little after the Black saga-
-recovering the Mystic "transformation" means that the multiplier lets him go way beyond than where he was with Buu or Beerus
-Mystic is now a transformation. Like SSJ, this means it is a multiplier
-Gohan has been training with Piccolo and his base form is beyond what it was during Buu or Beerus. this training started after RoF and has continued until now -even Goku stopped training a little after the Black saga-
-recovering the Mystic "transformation" means that the multiplier lets him go way beyond than where he was with Buu or Beerus
RocknRola
Member
Oh yeah, totally. I've said about as much myself too, in this very OT. I love that the "gang" is back to being useful! Sure, it could probably be done better in regards to this whole power level situation but eh, better than nothing I guess.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Nobody else finds this absurd? He's training with piccolo for Christ sake
GuessMyUserName
Member
Everyone should be able to agree, whether you're okay with a strong Gohan or not, that the way this being executed is awful what with the timing constraints.
... Although once again, it's awful in a way that's really really not new to Super which more than ever just tosses out power boosts without any moment's notice. The stupid thing in this case is they *could have* avoided this by leaving the previous training cockblocks out and just have Gohan's training be consistent post-RoF. It's not like his academic merits were at all relevant, if they just left that plot point alone to cook the past 3 arcs there'd be nothing to complain about here.
We live in a world where 17 can become a god training with buffalo.
... Although once again, it's awful in a way that's really really not new to Super which more than ever just tosses out power boosts without any moment's notice. The stupid thing in this case is they *could have* avoided this by leaving the previous training cockblocks out and just have Gohan's training be consistent post-RoF. It's not like his academic merits were at all relevant, if they just left that plot point alone to cook the past 3 arcs there'd be nothing to complain about here.
We live in a world where 17 can become a god training with buffalo.
17 got there by fighting poachers so whatevs
Piccolo is the greatest Martial Artist on Earth though.
Gohan's base being stronger than it was during the Buu saga from training with Piccolo doesn't sound that unreasonable, after all during the Buu saga Gohan had barely trained for 7 years and was weaker than when he fought Cell.
17 never said he got there by fighting poachers. You don't know how he trained, you don't know when he got that strong in the past 13 years, and you also don't know how his biology and infinite energy react to training. Is this good writing ? Absolutely not, but this is a blank canvas.
Instead, Gohan and Piccolo were already training, and it had been extremely inefficient for the past year.
And now in 3 hours it's magically enough to let Gohan be beyond Blue level.
Sure.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Lol you about to get 17 gifs coming ya way
GuessMyUserName
Member
All that needs to be said in bold. None of this is good writing, it's all awful.
Astral Dog
Member
Deep inside i always knew Frieza was going to be resurrected
Byakuya769
Member
Gohan was stronger than Goku as a toddler, his biology is different. His resolve finally helped him burst through that limiting wall.
I don't know.. all the power level stuff is inconsistent and beyond silly. Just enjoy the ride.
Talk about jumping to conclusions.
The preview says that Gohan is holding his own against Goku (we don't even know if Goku will be using blue or not, though he probably will), not that he's surpassing blue.
"Holding his own" could mean anything, SSG Goku was holding his own against Beerus, though in the end Beerus was holding back considerably.
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