NieR: Automata Spoiler Thread

MMarston said:
Pretty sure Kyle was married according to one of the streams.
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Antiwhippy said:
Nah, I think they're just friends? Kyle has a wife who comes onto the stream sometimes.
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Aww I was gonna say that's super adorable if they met and started dating during production of this, kinda like Keri Russell and Matthew Rhys did during The Americans.


Actually he just said Katelyn, so it's NOT Kira on the stream. She's a VA too though.
 
Finally got around to see the concert.

Beautiful stuff, i was holding my breath when 9S was not awakening lol

Really well done, great performances and that Yoko cameo at the end was killer.

Only thing is i wished they sang the End of YoRHa version of Weight of the World, with 8bit music, singers alternating each others and all of that.
 
So in the thread about "games that didn't need to be open world", Nier unsurprisingly showed up in it. Regardless of whether you think it's more like OoT or classifies as open world, we generally know what people mean when they say this.

What is everyone's thoughts on this again? In the very beginning, shortly after I got the game, I hesitantly agreed.

But then I wonder about what sidequests, if any, would exist if it was an entirely linear affair, and if I'd be willing to give up all of that. But not everyone loves the sidequests, so meh, I dunno.

Currently I think the main thing would be to improve the traversal aspects. They come real close to it by allowing you to increase your speed, but unfortunately cap it at a 20% increase. I also look at the mechs and wish the androids, or 9S at least, could ride them too... Although I think the game itself got all meta and acknowledges that it ain't possible due to the budget.
 
LotusHD said:
So in the thread about "games that didn't need to be open world", Nier unsurprisingly showed up in it. Regardless of whether you think it's more like OoT or classifies as open world, we generally know what people mean when they say this.

What is everyone's thoughts on this again? In the very beginning, shortly after I got the game, I hesitantly agreed.

But then I wonder about what sidequests, if any, would exist if it was an entirely linear affair, and if I'd be willing to give up all of that. But not everyone loves the sidequests, so meh, I dunno.

Currently I think the main thing would be to improve the traversal aspects. They come real close to it by allowing you to increase your speed, but unfortunately cap it at a 20% increase. I also look at the mechs and wish the androids, or 9S at least, could ride them too... Although I think the game itself got all meta and acknowledges that it ain't possible due to the budget.
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I had more fun with Nier Automata's "open world" than I did with Breath of the wild's open-world
 
LotusHD said:
So in the thread about "games that didn't need to be open world", Nier unsurprisingly showed up in it. Regardless of whether you think it's more like OoT or classifies as open world, we generally know what people mean when they say this.

What is everyone's thoughts on this again? In the very beginning, shortly after I got the game, I hesitantly agreed.

But then I wonder about what sidequests, if any, would exist if it was an entirely linear affair, and if I'd be willing to give up all of that. But not everyone loves the sidequests, so meh, I dunno.

Currently I think the main thing would be to improve the traversal aspects. They come real close to it by allowing you to increase your speed, but unfortunately cap it at a 20% increase. I also look at the mechs and wish the androids, or 9S at least, could ride them too... Although I think the game itself got all meta and acknowledges that it ain't possible due to the budget.
Click to expand...

I prefered Automata's small and confined world over most others because in all honesty, i am quite sick of AAA open world games nowadays.

While they don't all look they same, they certainly all play the same with their towers and enemy camps, their collectibles and filler quests.

While automata's sidequest don't offer anything particular exciting in the gameplay department - but so don't the other games for the most part - they at least provide you consistently with narrative value outside a few trollquests.

The verticality in leveldesign also stands out, most others don't allow you to simply jump up rooftops in a handful of seconds and continue from there.

Nier's world certainly isn't flawless but it never made a negative impression on me, unlike a lot of other games that i simply don't even finish anymore due to the giant worlds full of fillerquests.

If i had to change one thing about it, i'd maybe make the individual areas a tad larger and bridge them with long canyons or stuff like that, to allow the player to utilize the exosuit (and make the world a bit more believable in the process)
 
I mean, you are asking the question in a Nier thread.

But I do think the general style of world design both Niers went for suited the kind of games they were - a linear structure would be disastrous for Nier, and dilute Automata. If anything, the freedom of movement players have within the environment could be worked on - I never felt frustrated at empty space or traversal distances, but the amount of insurmountable obstacles and invisible walls was a frequent issue. With the amount of mobility and momentum afforded to Automata's player characters, the current level design feels even more limiting.
 
I guess now that I 100%'ed the game I'll give my save file like I planned, but it sucks I have to waste another from someone else again to do that. (I did the ending before once but I wasn't ready to give my file away at that time).

So I completed it again and it asked me if I wanted to send a message but I thought nah, I already did that last time I just want to give my save and end it already. But if you decline the message it just brings you back to the title screen instantly UUUGHH...

Now I have to waste another person's save again if I want to give mine? Man, this sucks.
 
I've been slowly working my way through Nier. Up to tonight I had endings A,B,K, O and W. Tonight I got C. Nier Automata continues to be a beautiful and heartbreaking experience.

Good thing I have that chapter select unlocked now!
 
LotusHD said:
So in the thread about "games that didn't need to be open world", Nier unsurprisingly showed up in it. Regardless of whether you think it's more like OoT or classifies as open world, we generally know what people mean when they say this.

What is everyone's thoughts on this again? In the very beginning, shortly after I got the game, I hesitantly agreed.

But then I wonder about what sidequests, if any, would exist if it was an entirely linear affair, and if I'd be willing to give up all of that. But not everyone loves the sidequests, so meh, I dunno.

Currently I think the main thing would be to improve the traversal aspects. They come real close to it by allowing you to increase your speed, but unfortunately cap it at a 20% increase. I also look at the mechs and wish the androids, or 9S at least, could ride them too... Although I think the game itself got all meta and acknowledges that it ain't possible due to the budget.
Click to expand...

Hard to say honestly. I would prefer if the open world was a lot bigger with better traversal more than anything, but I also understand budget limitations. I love the side quests so without there being a better way to handle them in a more linear game, I'm glad we got what we got even if it could be better.
 
So what's all this talk about the concert changing the Post-E Ending section? Apparently the initial script had he be depressing grimdark but that seems to have been a ruse?
 
The advance script omitted some final content that was present in the performance is what I understand happened. Basically we were on a ruse cruise.
 
ScherzoPrime said:
So what's all this talk about the concert changing the Post-E Ending section? Apparently the initial script had he be depressing grimdark but that seems to have been a ruse?
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The script sold in advance was incomplete - it cut off as 2B 'stopped', before 9S woke up. It was the same other than omitting the ending.

edit: Should have refreshed.
 
matmanx1 said:
I've been slowly working my way through Nier. Up to tonight I had endings A,B,K, O and W. Tonight I got C. Nier Automata continues to be a beautiful and heartbreaking experience.

Good thing I have that chapter select unlocked now!
Click to expand...

Oh, where are the final impressions?
 
I noticed that a recording of the Dinner Talk show + notes/translation was posted on the Reddit today. In it, Yoko Taro states that the reason why 9S knows about his past by the end of the game is that he is very intuitive and perceptive, allowing him to piece together his past and relationship with 2B by observing her.

But why did he have memories of his and 2B's fight with the Engels at the beginning of the game? I can think of only two reasons:

-Transferring memories to the Bunker from Earth seems to be a wireless process that requires no special equipment. No other unit type seems to have this ability other than the Scanners. It's possible that, while 2B was fully uploaded, 9S could only save one of his memories. (This incarnation of 9S seems to have been put back on solo work before the game starts, so without the memories of his relationship with 2B, naturally he'd be very lonely. So, of course he'd save a memory of the first instance of anyone showing him such a high level of concern and tenderness...)
-I think Taro states in the Q&A that 9S's frequent hacking has given him a special connection to the Machine Network. This has allowed for miracles like the scenario at the end of Routes A/B. When hacking the Engels, some of his memories might have leaked into the Network, where it might have bled back into 9S during the course of the game.

But for all his intuitive powers, they mention that while the rest of the Bunker knows about the E-type, he doesn't. The reason they give is because 9S is usually isolated when he isn't with 2B. Also, the fact the 9S dies a heckova lot for snooping around is common knowledge on the Bunker, so 9S keeling over is business as always for other YoRHa. In hindsight, it makes it a little fucked up that the Operators think that it's nice that he and 2B have become good friends...like, him bonding with his frequent executioner is a good thing.

Also, it turns out that Pascal's VA is a huge 9S fan. (She's so enthusiastic about it; it's super cute.) She made a little doll of him and showed everyone. She's actually the reason why we're getting 2B and 9S dolfies. She hopes the dolls will be a success; but since there actually seems to be a lot of female fans of Automata, I have a good feeling about it.

If you're wondering what's in 9S's bag, it was supposed to be misc. supplies, (Pascal's VA wanted him to collect acorns. Dawwww.) but Yoko Taro then decided to have him store tissues in there.

...
 
My read is that it's not 9S's memories; it's for the players benefit of recontextualizing those scenes with the knowledge of what was going through 2B's mind.
 
Concerning the boss fight with the Second Resource Unit, in the Nier Strategy Guide, 9S recognizes the area in which he sees the snippets of his past with 2B as his own memory space and the screens are fragments of what he remembers. (including her holding him on the Engels and them clinking their black boxes together.)

Also, when they meet up after the prologue, 9S mentions that he has his memories from the Engels mission up until the point where he meets with 2B. He said the reason for only saving 2B's memories is that bandwidth was low down there, but it insinuates that he has a wireless memory transfer ability. Even with the low bandwidth, I don't think it would be strange for him to save the few memories where he's being treated kindly or warmly. But he wouldn't have remembered the context and talking to 2B about the few memories he managed to save right then and there would've been pretty awkward.
 
spiritfox said:
So err what are the tissues for.
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They're for 2B/E for whenever she has to choke 9S to death and begins crying for doing nothing wrong. (I'm not a big fan of 9S.)

I finally got ending E last night, and the bullet hell credits were a pain in the ass. I must have died at least 7 or 8 times by the time I got to the point where it asked if I wanted help. I never selected "yes" so fast in my life in a game.

Only 19 or so endings to go, some side quests, grabbing all the weapons, and filling up all of the various tabs in intel to 100%. Yay.
 
Antiwhippy said:
http://www.usgamer.net/articles/the-hidden-humanity-in-nier-automata-fashion

Cool article about the fashion of nier from USgamer.
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Neat write up. In this game, I really liked that the struggle for both androids and machines to find meaning without the guiding hand of their creators was prevalent without being heavy handed. One one of the methods in which this was accomplished was through visual cues. The machine lifeforms used clothes the way humans do; to present the image of the role they wanted to play in their own lives and the lives of others.

The article makes a good point of how YoRHa uniforms reflect its members's lack of agency in contrast to the performative self-verification of the Machine Lifeforms. In addition to the maid/butler parallel, the YorHa uniforms encompass S&M elements. Yoko Taro's official explanation is that on-ground units are blind to the truth of the organization so they wear blindfolds, but Operators see everything but can't talk to the ground units about it, so they are symbolically fitted with mouth veils. S&M design elements allude to YoRHa's dual function as avengers who punish Earth's invaders and tools who must suffer for the sake of mankind.

Also, YoRHa's visual design takes heavy cues from Elegant Gothic Lolita fashion. EGL, in turn, was inspired by the clothes worn by Victorian enthusiasts of the "cult of death", a preoccupation with mourning and the tragedy of dying young. Yoko Taro also said that the reason the Bunker is only shown in black and white is because death pervades throughout the institution. Yoru-ha even means "passing leaf", like trees in autumn.

The article also helped me realize that 9S asking 2B to go on that t-shirt date isn't just only about him trying to bond with her in a way humans used to; it's also about how they're intrigued by the concept of reclaiming their lost agency. To trade their uniform for something of their choosing is symbolic of being able to define their place in society. Switching the svelte YoRHa uniform for something as mundane as a t-shirt is silly at first glance, but if you take their uniform as a symbol that their place in the world is to suffer and cause suffering, then yeah. Wear all the goofy gag t-shirts you want, kids.
 
LotusHD said:
So in the thread about "games that didn't need to be open world", Nier unsurprisingly showed up in it. Regardless of whether you think it's more like OoT or classifies as open world, we generally know what people mean when they say this.

What is everyone's thoughts on this again? In the very beginning, shortly after I got the game, I hesitantly agreed.

But then I wonder about what sidequests, if any, would exist if it was an entirely linear affair, and if I'd be willing to give up all of that. But not everyone loves the sidequests, so meh, I dunno.

Currently I think the main thing would be to improve the traversal aspects. They come real close to it by allowing you to increase your speed, but unfortunately cap it at a 20% increase. I also look at the mechs and wish the androids, or 9S at least, could ride them too... Although I think the game itself got all meta and acknowledges that it ain't possible due to the budget.
Click to expand...

It's as open world as the original neir was if they cut out the load times. I don't consider the game openworld in the modern meaning of the world as I do a JRPG style open world. If this game counts then the original ys is also a open world game.
 
Yeah, Automata is about as open world as Zelda OoT. It has some discrete zones coming off of a central hub that the player will often return to. It's a far cry from the types of open world games that seek to simulate whole cities or islands. Reused spaces and some roaming during downtime shouldn't really qualify Automata as open world, though I can't really blame people for describing it as such, primarily because video game genre definitions have always been wack.
 
Golnei said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5izHod68uI
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Antiwhippy said:
plllleeeeeassseeee....
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Hey, finding those special chi- er, making those custom clothes is hard work.

A Much Too Silent Sea has been translated. When reading the in-game logs, I think it's implied that they had both Android higher ups and YoRHa on the Moon base, but now we know that just means 10H and her pod program. Now, all YoRHa are supposed to be in the dark about the fate of humanity except for the Commander, so 10H has been made to believe that she's in charge of a relay station for messages from the Counsel of Humanity and a backup base for humanity's data. Multiple times, she's figured out that there's no humans left from discovering that she's on the main base and knowing that the broadcasting room has no one inside. When she finds out, her pod always takes her down and deletes her memories of the truth.

You'd think Zinnia's superiors would man the base with personnel that would know the truth about humans, so they would be in on the deception... but when I think about the concert script, it seems like very few people actually know about the Moon Base's role in Project YoRHa. Zinnia wrote the original document detailing that he planned to use the Base to infer that Humans were still alive, but since the war had to end sometime, he knew he couldn't keep up the deception and decided to scrap it. However, his protege #9 seems to have gotten a hold of his plans, leaked it to some collaborators(?) and designed the logic virus backdoor to complete the illusion. So the actual amount of people who could man the base and still be in the know is very small. Looking at what happened to #9, they could all be dead.

And to anyone still left alive, I'd imagine that the prospect of a listless life on the moon tending to humanity's ghost is not too appetizing. So they'd rather kill this poor girl over and over than take up a boring, but necessary job. Well, the Android higher ups think that YoRHa androids aren't even "real" ones anyway. It's probably no skin off their noses.
 
I finished the game last week. I've had time to think about it and read the thread/additional material. I also started a second playthrough because of the added context from endgame/additional material (wiped first save, will complete platinum on second playthrough). Out of the crazy 1st quarter with a bunch of well-received games, I went with Automata because it was most likely to provide a unique experience out of the list. I'm happy I went with this choice.

Now that I’m approaching the end of route A again, I still feel that the pacing is kind of off for some parts in the middle. However, route A feels significantly better with context, which allow for a lot more details to stand out. Now knowing how the story plays out exactly, I am even more interested in how the game could have turned out if it took an approach more similar to Odin Sphere. It would also provide a means to add play time to A2 and just place it before route A/B. It definitely felt like certain things were not included due to funding, so that can’t be helped. That being said, the pacing outside of the middle part of A and a very small part of C was solid.

The game was mostly subtle about presentation and were not too heavy handed in its dialogue, which helped a lot considering the mood for latter parts of the game. Scenes were able to retain a sense of tension because they didn’t suffer from overdramatizing, which is something that’s unfortunately common. Route C was really spectacular in execution, in that everything felt like the proper length and nothing felt too short or drawn out.

I really enjoyed the end game for the story, in that the stakes are entirely personal. Having personal stakes during the end game is common, but it’s generally encompassed in the big picture goal, and often align so the end goal is still the more important part of the two. For automata however, the final conflict are entirely personal ones, and it suits the narrative in this game a lot better. When done well, the resolution to these types of conflict carry a lot more emotional weight.

Music was great for pretty much the entire game, and really enhanced many scenes. In its entirety, it left an impression on me that is as strong as the one from Xenoblade.

The gameplay was very well done, and for the most part the perspective/genre switching was very fluid. There are issues with individual enemy’s designs, in that they are far too simplistic (extremely small moveset being the biggest problem). This was detrimental to 1v1 engagement, most noticeable in the final fight. However, if the game isn’t treated as a standard action game, I think it’s a tolerable flaw, as the game is just a lot of fun to play (I don’t think there is another game where running/platforming around is this enjoyable). The final segments of route C were not particularly difficult on any difficulty setting, but it was extremely well presented and very engaging and fun.

As for hacking, while I don’t really have a problem with the mini-game, I wished that the default option isn’t insta-kill, but take over instead, with insta kill being either low chance or requires multiple hacks to obtain. Additionall, I think the EMP/corruption mechanics could have been used a bit more though, as it was more or less really only relevant in one instance. Failed hacking resulting in corruption would have been more interesting than just more damage sustained.

And finally, if nothing else, Automata is absolutely spades in style, and I hope that recovery animation becomes a thing. The actions and movement are just pleasing to look at (I really like the recovery on sword heavy hold whiff). This game absolutely stands out as a unique experience, much like when souls first took hold. The reception to Demon’s/Nier as compared to DS1/Automata is also similar (although Demon’s was more well received comparaitively).
 
avrophantasm said:
Hey, finding those special chi- er, making those custom clothes is hard work.

A Much Too Silent Sea has been translated. When reading the in-game logs, I think it's implied that they had both Android higher ups and YoRHa on the Moon base, but now we know that just means 10H and her pod program. Now, all YoRHa are supposed to be in the dark about the fate of humanity except for the Commander, so 10H has been made to believe that she's in charge of a relay station for messages from the Counsel of Humanity and a backup base for humanity's data. Multiple times, she's figured out that there's no humans left from discovering that she's on the main base and knowing that the broadcasting room has no one inside. When she finds out, her pod always takes her down and deletes her memories of the truth.

You'd think Zinnia's superiors would man the base with personnel that would know the truth about humans, so they would be in on the deception... but when I think about the concert script, it seems like very few people actually know about the Moon Base's role in Project YoRHa. Zinnia wrote the original document detailing that he planned to use the Base to infer that Humans were still alive, but since the war had to end sometime, he knew he couldn't keep up the deception and decided to scrap it. However, his protege #9 seems to have gotten a hold of his plans, leaked it to some collaborators(?) and designed the logic virus backdoor to complete the illusion. So the actual amount of people who could man the base and still be in the know is very small. Looking at what happened to #9, they could all be dead.

And to anyone still left alive, I'd imagine that the prospect of a listless life on the moon tending to humanity's ghost is not too appetizing. So they'd rather kill this poor girl over and over than take up a boring, but necessary job. Well, the Android higher ups think that YoRHa androids aren't even "real" ones anyway. It's probably no skin off their noses.
Click to expand...

Yoko taro loves to think up of some fucked up ways to live eh.

Though I'm actually curious. Who actually built the whole damn thing? Am i wrong in thinking that zinia and 9 both died before the thing started building.
 
LotusHD said:
So in the thread about "games that didn't need to be open world", Nier unsurprisingly showed up in it. Regardless of whether you think it's more like OoT or classifies as open world, we generally know what people mean when they say this.

What is everyone's thoughts on this again? In the very beginning, shortly after I got the game, I hesitantly agreed.

But then I wonder about what sidequests, if any, would exist if it was an entirely linear affair, and if I'd be willing to give up all of that. But not everyone loves the sidequests, so meh, I dunno.

Currently I think the main thing would be to improve the traversal aspects. They come real close to it by allowing you to increase your speed, but unfortunately cap it at a 20% increase. I also look at the mechs and wish the androids, or 9S at least, could ride them too... Although I think the game itself got all meta and acknowledges that it ain't possible due to the budget.
Click to expand...

Too many invisible walls and some areas were too big for their own good, but overall the level design in general was lacking even compared to Nier 1, especially the dungeons. In short the structure itself was fine, the design of the levels wasn't.

This said the game isn't open world no matter how much claim it is. Unless we start to call OoT, Dark Souls and Ys games open world too.
 
I just read the intel for the Emil Clones, so the Emil we meet in Automata was the true emil all along, he just couldn't remember? That just made it so much sadder for me. All this time I wasn't that affected because I thought he was just another clone.
 
Ruff said:
I just read the intel for the Emil Clones, so the Emil we meet in Automata was the true emil all along, he just couldn't remember? That just made it so much sadder for me. All this time I wasn't that affected because I thought he was just another clone.
Click to expand...

Nope, From Yoko Taro himself during the dinner talks~
Kaine's shack that's found underground was built from scratch by the original Emil at one point, then after that, a copy took care of it. The reason as to why there's so many Lunar Tears in that underground cave is because the original bred it all. The original Emil is still alive.
Click to expand...
 
Anyone else get strong Evangelion vibes from this game? Feels like it was an influence. Especially ending A where 2B is choking 9S. The game made me want to rewatch Eva and researching Eva is making me want to replay the game.
 
LordofPwn said:
Anyone else get strong Evangelion vibes from this game? Feels like it was an influence. Especially ending A where 2B is choking 9S. The game made me want to rewatch Eva and researching Eva is making me want to replay the game.
Click to expand...

Yoko Taro is a huuuuuge fan of Evangelion and Berserk, so that's also where a lot of influences come from
 
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