MosquitoSmasher
Member
Who owns the Hitman rights? Square Enix or IO? Because only one developer can make Hitman and that's them. Didn't they also announce a second season? I recall that, really odd and such a shame too.
Square-Enix trying to sell off IO Interactive (Hitman)
- Thread starter Edge_Maverick
- Start date
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I'd love to have your optimism but the three biggest recent stealth games flopped (Deus Ex, Dishonored 2, Hitman), MGS is dead, so is Thief and nobody knows what's up with Splinter Cell.
Can't really think off any upcoming stealth games either.
FlutterPuffs
Member
I'm not really worried about IO. At least they are being sold rather than dissolved.
Also I love Hitman's gameplay but the overall story about 47 isn't really that strong. Would rather they start again with a new IP with the same gameplay system.
Also I love Hitman's gameplay but the overall story about 47 isn't really that strong. Would rather they start again with a new IP with the same gameplay system.
Blackthorn
"hello?" "this is vagina"
This is dreadfully sad. My dream scenario is that a publisher's willing to put down enough cash to buy IO and the Hitman license, but there's no chance in hell Square would be willing to sell both.
The thought of IO being shuffled off to work on something else after the made the best Hitman game of all time is fucking tragic.
SE just announced profits too, so this seems stupidly short sighted. Season one may have underperformed for them, but word of mouth could have made season two a hit. Killing the fucking golden goose.
The thought of IO being shuffled off to work on something else after the made the best Hitman game of all time is fucking tragic.
SE just announced profits too, so this seems stupidly short sighted. Season one may have underperformed for them, but word of mouth could have made season two a hit. Killing the fucking golden goose.
funkystudent
Member
The switch (publicly) last minute to the episodic was rough. The game had to win back everyone.
It did so critically but it's probably hard to do the same with sales. I would expect S2 sales to be better up front now they have slowly won people over though.
Anyway. I would hope they get to keep Hitman but I wouldn't get on that. I really REALLY wish them the best though.
It did so critically but it's probably hard to do the same with sales. I would expect S2 sales to be better up front now they have slowly won people over though.
Anyway. I would hope they get to keep Hitman but I wouldn't get on that. I really REALLY wish them the best though.
Roufianos
Member
The only one of those games I've bought is Hitman. Personally speaking, having played Dishonoured and Human Revolution, I just have no interest in first person stealth. It feels so dumbed down compared to MGS and Splinter Cell.
tryagainlater
Member
Despite what people who haven't played it say, episodic was a fantastic model for this series. It suits the Hitman concept and made even small things like elusives an event among the community. It ultimately made me enjoy the game more being served up that way. Season 1 is my favourite game of this gen so it's a shame it's ending.
I'm not really how successful the series has been. Those Absolution numbers are probably a bit misleading given that it's been on sale for nothing so often.
I'm not really how successful the series has been. Those Absolution numbers are probably a bit misleading given that it's been on sale for nothing so often.
D
Deleted member 518153
Unconfirmed Member
On my way to Denmark then!
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
I will sneak into your house and steal all your shit for this. And shoot your floor with a moss arrow.
TheSpoiler
Member
They probably are, but the game didn't sell like shit though. AFAIK.
Episodic isn't bad, per say. Resident Evil Rev 2 did it, and made it work. What helped is that, for that game, you had the campaign AND raid mode, the latter being used to fill the gap of time while you waited. And the wait itself wasn't long.
But Hitman had to win people over with a new idea - which I think it did a decent job of, but the online requirements were a big no no. That was the death kneel, because when you have an online only game that has server problems, nobody wants to fuss around with that. It took them months to improve the servers, and by then people had already bounced.
xrnzaaas
Member
I would say they evolved in response to what the market wants. In most cases stealth is a part of bigger action games like Assassin's Creed. In some cases stealth games are now smaller projects like Styx, Aragami, Sniper Elite, Shadow Tactics or Volume. So they're far from dead, but I think we shouldn't expect AAA games with sole focus on stealth.
As someone who does not enjoy stealth games or immersive fps, I feel like it's a niche audience. Bought Dishonored 1 on hype... Barely held my interest for 3 hours.
Hitman... I enjoy watching a bit but nothing makes me want to actually play it. Maybe if it was all in one package for 5-10 dollars.
Maybe just too many good games in 2016 and 17. There can only be so many million selling games when there's so little time to finish each one.
Edit: what i mean to say is one great stealth game bombing might be poor advertising or not enough getting the word out. Four such games, two of which you claim are best in the decade? Thats a symptom of a bigger issue -- stealth is not fun for many.
Messofanego
Banned
Yup. As always, indies saving a dying genre XD
I feel kinda guilty now. I preordered Absolution (don't worry, I took a few showers since then to clean myself) and haven't bought 2016 yet. Hopefully this won't be the end of the franchise.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Yeah, but that's a huge bummer for me as a stealth fan.
Styx and Aragami suck and I wouldn't really call any of the other games stealth games.
I hope it will. If they sell iO they better not fucking dare to make more Hitman games.
Oh no, I meant to say that IO needs to keep making them. Although I wouldn't oppose another dev making something as good as Blood Money, provided it still feels like a Hitman game.
Triggerhappytel
Member
I mean, S-E are selling them because Hitman obviously sold poorly, so I don't really see how there's a season 2 in that scenario? Unless another publisher buys Io & Hitman and continues to invest in the game, but I can honestly see S-E holding on to the IP.
Dishonored 2 was one of the most acclaimed games of last year.
Square Enix owns the IP. Presumably a second season was announced because they expected the game's physical release would spike sales, but I really don't think it did well for them, even if the digital release was relatively successful.
I kind of expect a new Splinter Cell to show up this E3. I think the timing is right, we don't know much of what Ubi has in development (I think all of their previous E3 games have been released up until now?) (except BG&E2) and they've recently released all of their other Tom Clancy mainstays so in theory Splinter Cell should be up next.
They could make an amazing James Bond game I think. Would love to see the IP get a crack from a good developer with a big budget.
Patterbits
Member
Uh no, I love Hitman and would be very pissed if I had to buy a console just to play it like I did with Blood Money.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Jesus what a depressing post, but sadly the truth for a big part. We shouldn't forget that Hitman had problems at the start with the online thing and I think a lot of people just aren't happy with a episodic model. But Jesus, you'd think they would have bought the full package when it came out, but.....apparently Not. I bought it as soon as they released the first episode.
Dishonored 2 another great game indeed and I'm baffled it didn't sell that great and I'll say the same about Prey. Fantastic game in so many ways and so far the sales aren't exactly great. Of course barely properly marketing the game can't have helped it. I'm not trying to think too much about the future of SP only games because I love them so fucking much, but if this keeps up it's not looking great.
TheSpoiler
Member
Why would they have bought the full pack when it came out? The online problems were going on far after release. People would have been fine with the episodic part if the game was in a working state. But, it wasn't.
JonnyDBrit
Member
Hitman 2016 had a fair amount of critical acclaim that became localised hype as the game slowly but surely actually released and saw long term support by the developers. And well, a community of 600k on Steam is enough to look visibly like a lot of people are playing - because they are.
But there's a lot, and then there's 'make Square-Enix feel like this was a good venture' a lot. Sadly, the game evidently didn't meet that latter mark.
With regards to what could have killed the game, I must admit to having waited on getting into it because for an episodic game, it's relatively expensive. A sale came around so I grabbed it, but I wouldn't be surprised if that sort of thing may have put people off.
As to the possible future of the game and its much promised season 2... strictly speaking, it's possible, however very improbable. What this means is that Square-Enix themselves aren't willing to sink the cost on funding the development of the title in future, whether it was making an actual loss or just very slim margins that weren't to their liking. If IOI does finds new investors who are willing, Square may be okay with negotiating the use of the license, with a much lower personal cost for themselves. That is however highly improbable, so we may have to pour one out for the dearly departed soon enough.
The Hitman IP is owned exclusively by Square Enix.
Unless SE continues to publish their games whilst they remain independent through a license, Hitman won't be made by them anymore.
Audioboxer
Member
Breaking it up into episodes probably had it sell worse than if it was just an ordinary release. Yes, I know the retail copy came out after all the episodes were out but it was a drawn out process and you know how that can lead to gamers attentions going elsewhere. "I'm not buying it till it's all out" leading to "that Hitman game is old news, people have been talking about it for months on end" once it finally is out.
Although, I accept people will reply to me and say episodic was the only way this was being released. I decline that reality even if Square say it's the case. If you ask me it was Square at the height of their mismanagement and doing stupid shit because industry experts told them "episodic is all the rage". Refer to JS videos on Square cutting up content for no real reason.
So clearly, it not having a platinum trophy that caused PS4 sales to tank.
Although, I accept people will reply to me and say episodic was the only way this was being released. I decline that reality even if Square say it's the case. If you ask me it was Square at the height of their mismanagement and doing stupid shit because industry experts told them "episodic is all the rage". Refer to JS videos on Square cutting up content for no real reason.
So clearly, it not having a platinum trophy that caused PS4 sales to tank.
MosquitoSmasher
Member
Hold on, still online problems when the physical release came out? I recall that they found a way to let you keep playing the game even if the Internet would get disconnected?
I do think this is starting to show Phil Spencer's point, that many SP games except for a few just don't seem to do too well. And that is for several reasons, one that publishers barely market it, which would be Bethesda for Prey and Dishonored 2. I really hope things will pick up because I want to see many more games like Dishonored, Prey, Hitman, Deus Ex and so on.
But Hitman's future is in doubt and that's incredibly fucked up!
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
S-E is such a poorly-managed company that I have to wonder why they keep making mind-boggling decisions.
Despite having a host of developers with proven track records that can deliver great games in decent time-frames that perform reasonably, S-E is always in the red.
As far as I'm concerned, all of S-E's problems are internal. They can't be depended upon to release a game in a timely fashion that is appropriate for their budget, yet they have no issue with complaining about Eidos, IO Interactive, and everyone else under their wing that actually manages to put in work. All the while they spend a decade on the bloated mess that is FFXV.
It's depressing.
Despite having a host of developers with proven track records that can deliver great games in decent time-frames that perform reasonably, S-E is always in the red.
As far as I'm concerned, all of S-E's problems are internal. They can't be depended upon to release a game in a timely fashion that is appropriate for their budget, yet they have no issue with complaining about Eidos, IO Interactive, and everyone else under their wing that actually manages to put in work. All the while they spend a decade on the bloated mess that is FFXV.
It's depressing.
alexanderftw
Banned
I am a huge stealth fan but the truth is, it seems like todays gamer does not have the patience for stealth and every stealth game released so far has the option of going full on assault with little to no repercussions. I remember in Splinter Cell 1 that if one alarm was sounded or two, it was game over. This is one of many examples. My only hope now is Cyberpunk from CDPR. Maybe we will finally have a successful modern rpg with stealth elements that will push other developers towards this genre assuming ofc the game will even have any stealth to begin with. One can only hope.LordOfLore
Banned
Actually, they haven't been in the red for years.
Magic Mushroom
Member
Gamers really do suck. So many amazing games and yet they flock en masse to another FIFA or CoD.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
Eh...oops.
Well disregard my last post then.
Oh and I'm reading the other thread and...yeah...kneejerk reaction + insomnia = not my greatest moment.
TheSpoiler
Member
For the first few months, if you were playing online and the servers fucked up, which happened quite often, you'd be booted back into the main menu. Same thing if anything happened to your internet connection or whatever. Nothing of that run was saved unless you did it yourself. So you could potentially lose lots of progress because of the game being dumb.
And you could play offline. You just wouldn't earn anything, nor would the unlocks carry over. So you might complete a level, but all that fancy shit you did matters for nothing because you need to be connected to the server for it to be validated.
Phil is full of shit. Nier sold well. Nioh sold well. DOOM sold well. You can make a case that the latter two had an online element, but it's largely a single player experience.
The Dear Leader
Banned
What in the actual fuck is Square Enix doing? First United Front now IO, my heart can't take this.
Btw, talking about Prey, this is even more depressing, because not only is an incredible well dsesigned game, because it feels like System Shock 3 in every aspect, but hurts seeing a lot of reviewers not enjoying it, probably beacuse many of those reviewers are modern gamers that don't understand this genre.
It hurts....in many ways, because if Prey was a 1999 game, it would be one of the contenders to the GOTY award easily.
It hurts....in many ways, because if Prey was a 1999 game, it would be one of the contenders to the GOTY award easily.
You would have assumed S-E would have accepted the possibility that trying to make a big game episodic is a long-term investment, and that it would have to grow and get normalized over time. Which is exactly what happened regarding the game's reception from hating the idea, to understanding the idea, to liking the idea. I mean, what the fuck was S-E expecting? Even IO knew that making a game like this was an act of trust and time. For S-E to cut the cord just over a year after after doing this seems bizarre.
Then again, this is the same fucking company that thought Hitman Absolution underperformed because it should have sold double of Blood Money, despite a six year hiatus for the IP. I don't think they look at their western IPs with any sort of logic.
I suppose this explains why IO is also making a new IP...they probably will keep the rights to it, assuming they leave S-E.
Then again, this is the same fucking company that thought Hitman Absolution underperformed because it should have sold double of Blood Money, despite a six year hiatus for the IP. I don't think they look at their western IPs with any sort of logic.
I suppose this explains why IO is also making a new IP...they probably will keep the rights to it, assuming they leave S-E.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Square Enix is making more money than they ever have.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
Are they selling Hitman with IO or do they want to keep the IP?
I bought most of those, (Prey will be bought soon) but yeah the mass market is really at odds with what I like.
What are you even talking about? When did Nomura go over budget?
I bought most of those, (Prey will be bought soon) but yeah the mass market is really at odds with what I like.
What are you even talking about? When did Nomura go over budget?
You forgot to thank S. Enix for the shitty online requirement for Hitman and the god awful Dues Ex MD preorder incentive.
Fuck, was under the impression the episodic Hitman series did really well. Guessing the Western side of Square will be a Marvel factor for awhile now too.
Hopefully IO get a good home.
Would be a good move on their part, the Division 2 with a great stealth system could be incredible. But it would probably turn off a lot of potential buyers if a lot of devs leave, which would be a terrible outcome though.
Hopefully IO get a good home.
Would be a good move on their part, the Division 2 with a great stealth system could be incredible. But it would probably turn off a lot of potential buyers if a lot of devs leave, which would be a terrible outcome though.
Rock Howard
Member
The episodic nature was somehow an off-turner for me. Did buy Absolution though.