At this point I don't really see the point in Gohan anymore. Between making him second fiddle to Goku/Vegeta and leaving him out of fighting I prefer the latter. The passing the torch moment has come and gone and it's obvious Goku will continue to be the focus. It's pretty obvious all these characters catching up is just a setup for his next transformation.
Dragon Ball Super |OT6| Put your back into it.
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He hit his twice. How is the holding his own? They barely fought. And Super Saiyan 2 Goku was doing damaged to Gohan to the point that he floor Gohan at one point. And he only used the Kaioken because Gohan asked him to "used his full power". Nothing about the match going on too long.
nckillthegrimace
Member
Oof, Tien.
While he's there, Goku should ask Baba if the Mummy or Devil are around to join the team.
Vicetrailia
Banned
Gohan is as strong as that warrior Goku fought in the extra exhibitiom
I'd say the power increase has been a thing they've been building up for Gohan since the end of RoF arc. It sits better than the 17 pull out of nowhere.
Keep this in mind. If a ki can't be sensed by normal people, it is god ki. U9, despite having insensible ki, didn't because not even Goku could sense them and can sense god ki. Only the gods forms, Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan have god ki. Their normal forms have normal ki, but they're still super powerful. You don't necessarily need god ki to be powerful.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
He did it because Gohan asked for it.
I don't think any conclusions can be drawn about Gohan's strength related to Goku, since Goku never takes anything seriously. Even when he's fighting villainous murderers or majin vegeta he doesn't. But people probably will anyway.
And if he was, the one moment where he might've possibly been serious was the moment the fight ended so...
Goku's just not a great barometer. Cause then you mix in Krillin, 17, Gohan, etc.
And if he was, the one moment where he might've possibly been serious was the moment the fight ended so...
Goku's just not a great barometer. Cause then you mix in Krillin, 17, Gohan, etc.
let a man dream
This is why we wait for subs.
I can say that: Gohan >= Super Saiyan 2 Goku. Goku got ahead by being an overall better fighter. Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku is a different story since Gohan did tag him twice, but Goku didn't really fight in that form and used the Kaioken. There is also the fact that Goku wasn't pushed to used his full power. He did it on Gohan's request.
Overall, until proven otherwise, I will put Gohan and 17 on the same tier simply because I chose to overrate Gohan in this case.
Mister Wolf
Member
It wasn't out of nowhere. He had to fight off poachers with rifles that shoot lead bullets. That plus raising three kids took him from being a turd inside of first form Cell's intestines to Goku has to use god ki super saiyan form.
Yeah, I'm cool with saying he's at or above ssj2 goku
SSJ2 goku remains best looking form. Whatever excuses they concoct for us to see more ssj2 I'm down with. Keep it coming.
leatherhat
Member
Surely this will be the episode where Tien gets to do something great!
...
...
Gohan said this was his episode, and he wasn't sharing it with anyone
Gohan has some type of grudge against Tien apparently.
GuessMyUserName
Member
WhiskeyDiver
Member
It's funny how time changes things. If Goku went SSJ3 against Gohan, it would have been enough to defeat him eventually, since it seems likethe stamina drain of SSJ 3 isn't as much of a hindrance as it was in DBZ. I'm sure the time he had to train in the ssj3 form helped a lot before he SSJ god modded.
But back in DBZ, if SSJ3 Goku fought Mystic Gohan, it would have been an easy victory for Gohan given the gap in power there was between the two.
What is good to see is that, given Goku's SSJ2 is leagues above his Buu saga SSJ2 transformation, is that Gohan was able to easily keep up and hurt Goku in his full powered mystic form. I say this, because Goku is obviously a hell of a lot stronger in his base and SSJ forms than he was in DBZ.
As long as the writers don't fuck it up and turn Gohan into a bookworm again, I'm confident that Gohan will eventually be in Vegeta's league, and after that, Goku's league. Let's face it. Given how easy it now seems for Goku to use the SSJ Blue + Kaio-ken combo without any noticeable drawbacks, he's a hell of a lot stronger than Vegeta now.
They may be equal in SSB form or Vegeta holds a slight advantage, but once Goku pops an SSB Kaioken combo, Vegeta would stand no chance against him. It's the same thing with Toppo. If Goku went all out with his fight with Toppo, they would be shoveling his carcass off the Tournament floor.
It seems that right now, the only person close to or being more powerful than Goku is Jiren, but we haven't seen him fight yet. Toppo's warning does seem to suggest that he is easily in Goku's league, and Goku will need to step up and pull a new combo transformation out of his ass to beat him.
I could be wrong about all of this, but I might fuck myself up if I try give a far more in depth explanation/analysis about what I stated above...meaning I wouldn't do a very good job and probably miss some obvious facts There are people far better suited to do such a thing, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lot that could be sad to correct me and contradict what I said.
But besides that, the fight was a fun one. I liked it at least. Goku obscuring Gohan's vision with a barrage of ki blasts to mask his next stretch of attacks was a great tactical move on Goku's part. I wish Super would do that with Goku and others more often. He's more than capable of coming up with a lot of strategy during fights instead of just powering up and starting a barrage of kicks and punches.
But back in DBZ, if SSJ3 Goku fought Mystic Gohan, it would have been an easy victory for Gohan given the gap in power there was between the two.
What is good to see is that, given Goku's SSJ2 is leagues above his Buu saga SSJ2 transformation, is that Gohan was able to easily keep up and hurt Goku in his full powered mystic form. I say this, because Goku is obviously a hell of a lot stronger in his base and SSJ forms than he was in DBZ.
As long as the writers don't fuck it up and turn Gohan into a bookworm again, I'm confident that Gohan will eventually be in Vegeta's league, and after that, Goku's league. Let's face it. Given how easy it now seems for Goku to use the SSJ Blue + Kaio-ken combo without any noticeable drawbacks, he's a hell of a lot stronger than Vegeta now.
They may be equal in SSB form or Vegeta holds a slight advantage, but once Goku pops an SSB Kaioken combo, Vegeta would stand no chance against him. It's the same thing with Toppo. If Goku went all out with his fight with Toppo, they would be shoveling his carcass off the Tournament floor.
It seems that right now, the only person close to or being more powerful than Goku is Jiren, but we haven't seen him fight yet. Toppo's warning does seem to suggest that he is easily in Goku's league, and Goku will need to step up and pull a new combo transformation out of his ass to beat him.
I could be wrong about all of this, but I might fuck myself up if I try give a far more in depth explanation/analysis about what I stated above...meaning I wouldn't do a very good job and probably miss some obvious facts There are people far better suited to do such a thing, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was a lot that could be sad to correct me and contradict what I said.
But besides that, the fight was a fun one. I liked it at least. Goku obscuring Gohan's vision with a barrage of ki blasts to mask his next stretch of attacks was a great tactical move on Goku's part. I wish Super would do that with Goku and others more often. He's more than capable of coming up with a lot of strategy during fights instead of just powering up and starting a barrage of kicks and punches.
AlphaDragoon
Member
What a shot
Yeah, this was hype as fuck. Goku is looking at Gohan like, "this is the size of the wall you have to climb, boyo".
roflwaffles
Member
I'm kind of surprised how overwhelmingly positive the reception has been for this episode. I don't think it's a bad episode but I don't think it's anywhere close to 56/57, which is the pinnacle of this series so far IMO.
I didn't find the fight visually impressive and Gohan being this strong has its own set of logical problems, but I think people are just willing to overlook that because Gohan is a fan favorite. The 2v2 part I found especially boring, Piccolo gets to do one thing sort of cool but Tien is totally shit on.
Is Kaioken SSB just something we're accepting Goku can do whenever he wants without repercussions now? He's done this 3 times since the Hit fight and now there seems to be 0 side effects when it originally screwed with his ki for days after. Also there doesn't seem like there's much difference between SSJ2 and SSJB.
I didn't find the fight visually impressive and Gohan being this strong has its own set of logical problems, but I think people are just willing to overlook that because Gohan is a fan favorite. The 2v2 part I found especially boring, Piccolo gets to do one thing sort of cool but Tien is totally shit on.
Is Kaioken SSB just something we're accepting Goku can do whenever he wants without repercussions now? He's done this 3 times since the Hit fight and now there seems to be 0 side effects when it originally screwed with his ki for days after. Also there doesn't seem like there's much difference between SSJ2 and SSJB.
Copper
Member
He's getting better at controlling and using it. Also when he used it for the Hit fight he used it for an extended time which messed him up. Now he only uses it in short bursts as needed.
Also anyone going to talk about those moves Gohan used? When he hit Tien with the spark move I've never seen it before. I'd say mystic/ultimate Gohan is just under SSB as of now, although I'd say it does have the potential to surpass it. I wonder what exactly Gohan meant when he said he was going to get stronger a different way.
Vegeta: I believed in Gohan before Piccolo even did.
Some kind of variant of Stardust Breaker?
Copper
Member
Oh boy, as much as I initially disliked Goku and Vegeta being able to reach Super Saiyan 2 back in the day because it was supposed to be Gohan's hidden potential unleashed, I wish it was still the most commonly used transformation. Any way you could boost it's power past Super Saiyan Blue, Toriyama and Toei? Or introduce a Super Saiyan Yellow transformation that looks exactly like 2 with the sparks and all? That'd be great.
Gohan saying he wants to get strong differently than Goku probably means he will not tap into God ki. That's fine; I wasn't expecting him to do so. This way I also don't have to worry about his hair being given an awful colour if he transformed while using god ki.
Gohan saying he wants to get strong differently than Goku probably means he will not tap into God ki. That's fine; I wasn't expecting him to do so. This way I also don't have to worry about his hair being given an awful colour if he transformed while using god ki.
Awesome episode. I'm super hyped that Gohan is the team leader (whatever the hell that means).
Also I am not too worried about Tien. Dude is a fucking cockroach. I wouldn't be surprised if Tien ends up being the last motherfucker standing. I remember being shocked when Tien came out of nowhere with the clutch save in the Buu saga.
Also I am not too worried about Tien. Dude is a fucking cockroach. I wouldn't be surprised if Tien ends up being the last motherfucker standing. I remember being shocked when Tien came out of nowhere with the clutch save in the Buu saga.
GuessMyUserName
Member
zeioIIDX
Member
Blackquill
Member
Y'all worry too much about power scales, it is all over the place since the Cell's arc, now Super wants supporting characters to be more useful against powerhouse such as Goku and it's a great thing. Dragon Ball has a great supporting cast and 90% were useless for years. Now they managed to make them a bit more useful in this arc.
Jinjo
Member
I liked how they showed Goku clearly was more aware on his guard (aka his weak point). He straight up blocked Gohan's surprise attack after the Piccolo combination.
Good to see Gohan put up a fight, but still getting one-hit KO'd by Blue Kaioken Goku as it should be. U10 team looks real bad.
Good to see Gohan put up a fight, but still getting one-hit KO'd by Blue Kaioken Goku as it should be. U10 team looks real bad.
IbukiLordSA
Member
Lol Tien got bodied so hard haha
Gaiaknight
Member
Gohan put him the fuck down it was great but man i like tien so it sucked to see tha happen to him.
Gohan must really hate Tien
Sir_Crocodile
Member
Man, they really went out of their way to show how weak Tien is compared to everyone else huh
If Tien didn't interfere with the Buutenks fight, Gohan would have died, not been absorbed, Buutenks would have gloated long enough to defuse, and then Goku or Vegeta would have come in to kill Buucolo.
Tien ruined the Gohan sacrifice plan.
Hopefully he breaks Yamcha's leg in an episode or two. Maybe when he offers to join, after getting tired of waiting.
First he gets one-shotted (or two-shotted can't remember but it was a three second fight) by freaking roshi even with the four arms technique (though tbf i don't think that increases his power can't remember). Then was completely useless in this episode as gohan bodies him if he even breathes wrong.
Undead Fantasy
Member
As much as I loved Gohan's part in the episode. I'm a little sad Piccolo just stood there and did one attack. He should have fought Goku.
Or at least Tien to show how useless he is even more or you know give him a fight
Mister Wolf
Member
I expected more from the technique he was charging. He's usually good with creating techniques that punch above their weight class.
I don't think he could do much against Goku since he withstood one of his strongest techniques without transforming. He aren't punking Goku like he did with Gohan.
Goku is way, way, way above Piccolo's weight class even with his giant power-up.
Mister Wolf
Member
Bet a special beam cannon from piccolo now could punch a hole through his chest just like it did back then.
Undead Fantasy
Member
I don't think so. Piccolo beat SSJ2 Gohan and Gohan without transforming was fighting very well against Goku.
Mattakuevan
Member
I honestly think thats the point. Gohan just all around seems to want to work together towards victory vs. his dad where its pretty much all about him.
Undead Fantasy
Member
I'm really sad for Tenshinhan's fans. Two episodes in a row he got fucked.
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