No, Manga Black isn't that cool and he barely talked to Goku. In the manga, it was vague about who was stronger until now. I think it was always Goku > Vegeta, but the manga purposely made it vague with the stupid 90% power drop for Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan and Goku never fighting Black.
Dragon Ball Super |OT6| Put your back into it.
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No, Manga Black isn't that cool and he barely talked to Goku. In the manga, it was vague about who was stronger until now. I think it was always Goku > Vegeta, but the manga purposely made it vague with the stupid 90% power drop for Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan and Goku never fighting Black.
Omnistalgic
Member
I'm cool with Dadgeta lol...But besides having dormant abilities, I've always thought Gohan was pretty corny as a character. He doesn't' even like fighting, I feel like his arc ended when Android (??) had that one-on-one conversation with him and told him to let it go this one time and save everyone.
Even before reading manga/spoilers etc...when I watched mystic Gohan fighting Buu I KNEW he was not going to get the job done. Gohan is just a vanilla character to me, always has been. Would love for him to do something completely different and go mediate with Piccolo and come up with a different fighting style. Him being Goku's image again is not appealing, we already have a Goku lol. Give him a cool ability like Hit or something.
Vegata crying and telling Goku to kill Frieza (even though he wanted it so much more). His rant about Pride after he went Majin Vegeta, he's just such a intricate and layered character than Gohan.
Japanmanx3
Member
Gohan is really back. I teared up from shear excitement. Dragonball Super has made me more openly emotional than any other anime at this point.
I wouldn't count Raditz as an evil Goku since they're brothers. To me, that's like calling Bardock evil Goku.
But I agree on everything else.
Bardock isn't evil Goku because he's '80s action movie Goku. He's Rambo Goku. John Matrix Goku.
Good point, but he should be above Turles.
Bardock is evil, especially if you used Father of Goku special. He's a noble demon at best.
Undead Fantasy
Member
Then this is manga exclusive.
In the copy-Vegeta arc they were equal. Then Vegeta trains in the chamber while Goku learns the Mafuba. Vegeta is stronger in the anime since no meaningful increase was said to happen currently.
ZeroTheShadow
Member
Dude WTF is going on in the manga? Seriously
Goku Time.
It really isn't since we saw Goku overwhelmed and hurt Merged Zamasu and still have power to attack when Vegeta and Trunks together couldn't even dent Merged Zamasu. So, Goku > Vegeta in both versions.
As for Copy-Vegeta, no offense but Goku was dicking that fight and only decided to end it after having fun.
is that the move goku used to beat hit
Lol. Okay, I'm using this every time someone says Goku Time for now on.
Undead Fantasy
Member
No offense but this is speculation.
And it doesn't make sense in the anime. If Goku was that strong he would have beaten Black easily but got owned like a chump.
Remember when Toyotaro said he'd be ahead of the anime when done, so he's giving them room to breath? Even King Kai wouldn't find that statement funny anymore.
Speculation that is supported by the anime.
He beat up Black with a hole in his chest and after Black knocked him around. Compared that to a fresh Vegeta.
And no matter how you slice it the fact remains, Goku by himself hurt Merged Zamasu and had enough power to pull off the Kaioken, which was still high risk. Vegeta and Trunks together didn't even stretched Merged Zamasu. There is no getting around this, especially with the manga also supports Goku > Vegeta.
So it is Goku > Vegeta in the outline most likely.
Undead Fantasy
Member
Doesn't make sense since Goku never trained in the chamber and was inferior to Black. The same Black that got beaten by Vegeta...
I will just view this chapter as manga nonsense.
D
Deleted member 10571
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Alright, I think I'm up to date. The recent tournament stuff is actually really cool so far, I liked even the training all-star fights beforehand and wonder how the other universes' fighters will fare.
That is what the anime have shown us. Goku hurting Merged Zamasu is a much bigger feat than Vegeta beating up Black.
I should also note that Goku asked which one Vegeta wanted to fight in the anime. If Goku thought he couldn't handle Black, why would he even asked Vegeta this question? And when Vegeta called himself superior to Goku and Black, got laughed and said really. By the conversation, it seems Goku thought he could beat Black.
Undead Fantasy
Member
Goku can still use the Kaioken.
He didn't against Merged Zamasu until all but one of his limbs was broken. So Goku even without the Kaioken is stronger than Vegeta. Plus, Kaioken was still a high risk technique. Why do you think he only used it once he was badly crippled and not when he raged against Black?
Undead Fantasy
Member
Goku could still be weaker than Black and beat him with smarts.
Vegeta dominated Black.
Will never make sense for me for Vegeta to be weaker than Goku after being said to power up a lot from training in the chamber while Goku didn't.
So I will just view it as manga nonsense and be done with it.
donkey show
Member
And Goku melted Merged Zamasu's face, which is better than Vegeta beating up Black. So that shows Goku > Vegeta in the anime and manga.
Sorry, you can't avoid it.
JadedWriter
Member
Why don't we have Gohan learn how to turn his ki into a Punch Ghost.
Is he about to enter Emperor Time?
Who's that Goku?< Like it really needs a spoiler...Time Breaker Bardock!
Vanilla Goku and Goku Ginyu are missing.
Could just mean Goku had more left in his tank and didn't have to expend as much energy fighting zam as vegeta did with black or that kamehameha just is a better attack. Really doesn't matter anyway as Goku has been surpassed before but it never lasts and has KK.
Undead Fantasy
Member
Vegeta and Trunks didn't fuck up their hands doing the beam clash. Obviously Goku powered up the blast or something.
Goku can't magically be stronger than Vegeta without training.
roflwaffles
Member
It's Super.
It's Dragon Ball Super, where the powerups are made up and consistency doesn't matter. Every character is as strong as the plot demands him to be (for maximum fan salt)
The appeal of Gohan has a lot to do with the dichotomy of his more empathic human side and his feral saiyan nature(which was established back in the Raditz episodes) and how he deals with it.
Perhaps it's something Toriyama didn't fully understand. He couldn't have predicted the characters popularity when the show went international.
Both Goku and Vegeta got messed up equally by Merged Zamasu to the point that they both got knocked out of Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. And Goku and Vegeta got caught in Black's clone attack. Also, the Garlic Gun and the Kamehameha are equal according to the guides.
Vegeta and Trunks worked together and combined their attack and didn't hurt Merged Zamasu. If Vegeta was vastly stronger than Goku he wouldn't need to break his arms to melt Merged Zamasu's face, especially with Trunks' help who was fairly fresh.
Goku was stronger, plain and simple.
LSauchelli
Member
In the manga Goku has yet to use Kaio-ken. I have only read the description for chapter 24, but I think it's something that might happen to explain the gap in power between Vegeta and Goku.
Also, in the manga Vegeta didn't really became stronger after his training, he was just able to switch between Super Saiyan God and Blue at will to avoid the drawbacks of Blue.
SnowFlakeCake
Member
Vegeta fucked up black like there was no tomorrow, Goku slapped Black and the green dude when he found out his wife and son got killed, dude bitched out big time. Goku and Vegeta will always be there and there abouts power wise, due to being the most popular characters and one pushing the other.
I don't like Daddy Vegeta but it is what it is, the dude that changes diapers and can fuck up pretty much anyone. I'll take it, best character also had the best sprog in Future Trunks, that's what good genes gets you.
I don't like Daddy Vegeta but it is what it is, the dude that changes diapers and can fuck up pretty much anyone. I'll take it, best character also had the best sprog in Future Trunks, that's what good genes gets you.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Vegeta should be first here
Icyflamez96
Member
Gogeta Black. Believe.
There are literally multiple ways that end part of the fight could've been better, but alas, it's like they just wanted to cram as much into that episode as possible.
So he retconed his version of SSB into the actual SSB from the anime.
Toyotaro go home, you're drunk.
Then we would have posters complaining about how Goku 'ruined' the Father-Son Galick Gun.
and so the universes persisted as normal
Undead Fantasy
Member
Gohan with only half his power overpowered Cell and killed him.
If Goku had overpowered Zamasu without sacrificing his arms then I would agree but he didn't.
The "melted" merged Zamasu, I felt that it was more a result of psychological damage than physical damage.
Just_myles
Member
I sort of disagree with this sentiment. I think the manga reigns in power level questions imo better than the anime. It seems to me that they go out of their way to over explain, which is probably why we have not seen a super sinner Trunks. It really made no sense having that in the anime and at least in the manga they mentioned that he did train with Kaioushin and Kibito. Also there being more depth to the super sayain blue form is handled much better in the manga. It's not just a transformation like in the anime.
If the anime did that, I would have liked it better.
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