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[Tonedeff]

Well, let's be fair here--it wasn't a disagreement, it was a provocation. The preacher's inflammatory statements weren't an invitation for discussion but an attempt at grabbing attention so he could talk about what he wanted. "You deserve to be raped" was not what the Priest wanted to debate, that was just an attempt at a reaction because he knew those words would cause a stir of emotion.

So here's the thing: I don't approve of violence. I really don't. But this is a case where someone continued to provoke another party for days which eventually led to an escalation. It wasn't a difference in opinions, it was provocation leading to assault. And...I can hardly blame the woman who got violent because the preacher was constantly prodding to get a violent reaction.

And I feel like this is a very important distinction to make here. I don't think violence is a correct response, but I think once a party is pushed to a breaking point--and the preacher clearly did so after continuing his speech for days--I can hardly blame them for reacting in the way they did.

I understand that you don't agree with violence. Neither do I, really. But I think that in this case the violence is frankly at the fault of the Preacher. He created a scenario where people would feel threatened and provoked them for a number of days.

I understood all of this before I made my post

 

[CarpeDeezNutz]

What about just knocking the sign out of his hands?

 

[Metaphoreus]

hey, maybe someone doesn't want to hear that they deserve to be raped day in day out? maybe all other avenues were exhausted in dealing with this dude and noone was willing to do anything? i'm not sure, fuck me for having some empathy right

There's nothing wrong with empathy, but it isn't the be-all and end-all of this discussion.

still making me smile

I saw what you said. Didn't care then; don't care now.

You can't combat logic that prioritizes legality over morality. A rapist standing across from a school and screaming at students that they deserve to be raped is perfectly fine in America.

This is a funny juxtaposition of sentences. Most people recognize that just because something is legal doesn't mean it's fine. To conclude otherwise--as you do--you'd have to "prioritize legality over morality," which I thought you were criticizing?

 

[Veelk]

In my case, the guy gets no attention nor response and eventually ends up shouting at an empty street when everyone goes home as normal.

No, they do not. There is nothing normal about a guy shouting to kids how they ought to be raped. Fuck you if you believe that his words do not have an effect.

 

[Got]

There's nothing wrong with empathy, but it isn't the be-all and end-all of this discussion.



I saw what you said. Didn't care then; don't care now.



This is a funny juxtaposition of sentences. Most people recognize that just because something is legal doesn't mean it's fine. To conclude otherwise--as you do--you'd have to "prioritize legality over morality," which I thought you were criticizing?

still appreciate you reminding me of his sad and miserable little lonely death.

between that and this guy getting clocked, it's been a good day.

 

[mashoutposse]

No, they do not. There is nothing normal about a guy shouting to kids how they ought to be raped. Fuck you if you believe that his words do not have an effect.

Cool, it sounds like you're ready for the consequences if you find yourself in a similar situation. Have a good night.

 

[Media]

Cool, it sounds like you're ready for the consequences if you find yourself in a similar situation. Have a good night.

I mean, he's not going to be shouting that school girls deserve to be raped, so...?

 

[Aytumious]

I'm disappointed... disappointed she didn't chase the cunt down and finish the job.

What kind of piece of shit are you that you stand outside of a school threatening rape against its students?

Cunt should have had his head caved in.

Some people don't deserve to exist. The guy in the OP is one of those people.

You can argue it's about point of view and that he has the right to threaten young girls with rape, but you're just being an ass and emboldening someone who advocates rape as punishment by making that argument.

If you actually believe this, why not track him down and do it yourself instead of cheerleading someone else? Or are you just bloviating on a video game message board?

 

[Royce McCutcheon]

There's no moon money in defending the honor of rape advocates, McCutcheon!

Not their honor, just their mortality. I don't think there is a gray line here, what he was doing was wrong, aggressive, and was meant to incite hate. This woman Kabobs him with a bat, that's assault. These are both wrong. No one here is supporting this man's actions.

 

[hey_monkey]

In the case of a crime, fair laws should be applied fairly. I won't argue that, though we could argue the fairness of our laws and their application all day long in another discussion.

But I do find the continual writing-off of so-called "shitty opinions" deeply disturbing. Let's not pretend these things happen in a vacuum. It's not one guy saying this; preachers like this are allowed at my university, too. It's allowed on social media. And it's not just this; we've got the same thing happening with white supremacists, with anti-Islamic fearmongers, with people who fear and despise trans folks, and on and on and on. Sure, there's a semantic and legal difference between "you should be raped/killed/destroyed/whatever" and saying "I will rape/kill/destroy you," but we're letting that gulf widen and pretending like those statements are just fine when they absolutely contribute to violence.

That something is legal doesn't always mean it should be, and maybe we shouldn't let so-called preachers stand around screaming hatred at children. We limit all kinds of behaviors around schools in particular; why not this one?

 

[Media]

Not their honor, just their mortality. I don't think there is a gray line here, what he was doing was wrong, aggressive, and was meant to incite hate. This woman Kabobs him with a bat, that's assault. These are both wrong. No one here is supporting this man's actions.

Lots of people are defending his right to 'free speech' and saying what she did was more disgusting than what he did. So yes, people are supporting his actions.

 

[Psychoward]

Cool, it sounds like you're ready for the consequences if you find yourself in a similar situation. Have a good night.

LOL

If I ever tell school girls they should be raped I hope someone clocks me to knock some sense in to me, jesus christ.


also yeah idk why you guys are entertaining a semantics stickler with a scalia avatar, i'd rather hit my head against the wall (or get hit in the head with a bat hyuk hyuk)

 

[Not]

I mean, maybe the woman should've just made a sign that read, "You deserve to be hit over the head with a bat"

 

[hey_monkey]

Not their honor, just their mortality. I don't think there is a gray line here, what he was doing was wrong, aggressive, and was meant to incite hate. This woman Kabobs him with a bat, that's assault. These are both wrong. No one here is supporting this man's actions.

Saying "well, it's shitty but oh well, just ignore him" essentially condones it because it is inaction. It is tolerance. It is assent. And there are plenty of people with variations on that theme in here.

 

[Psychoward]

Not their honor, just their mortality. I don't think there is a gray line here, what he was doing was wrong, aggressive, and was meant to incite hate. This woman Kabobs him with a bat, that's assault. These are both wrong. No one here is supporting this man's actions.

Why did the court not rule that this was attempted murder then?

 

[eot]

Lots of people are defending his right to 'free speech' and saying what she did was more disgusting than what he did. So yes, people are supporting his actions.

Saying that something is legal doesn't mean that you agree with it. And of course a form of assault that is potentially lethal is worse than a guy holding a sign, no matter what it says on it.

 

[Tonedeff]

Lots of people are defending his right to 'free speech' and saying what she did was more disgusting than what he did. So yes, people are supporting his actions.

So if I defend the right of the KKK to march if they choose, as a black man, I'm simultaneously in favor of the message they're spewing? That's fucking stupid

 

[mashoutposse]

LOL

If I ever tell school girls they should be raped I hope someone clocks me to knock some sense in to me, jesus christ.

I mean, he's not going to be shouting that school girls deserve to be raped, so...?

No, I'm talking about the consequences of accepting the bait of an obvious troll and assaulting him on camera in front of dozens of witnesses, as Tabitha did.

 

[Media]

Saying that something is legal doesn't mean that you agree with it. And of course a form of assault that is potentially lethal is worse than a guy holding a sign, no matter what it says on it.

And yet no one but a few of are seeing it from her point of view, as responding to a threat, that continued despite numerous legal avenues attempted to stop it. Again, should we just ignore people like this? Even though it perpetuates the culture that leads to a horrifying number of rapes every day?

And it's more than 'saying something is legal' people are defending the man and shitting all over the girl.

So if I defend the right of the KKK to march if they choose, as a black man, I'm simultaneously in favor of the message they're spewing? That's fucking stupid

If they stop using dog whistles and go back to carrying signs that say 'lynch all the blacks!' and you still defend it as free speech then yes, I would say you are condoning their actions.

 

[Psychoward]

No, I'm talking about the consequences of accepting the bait of an obvious troll and assaulting him on camera in front of dozens of witnesses, as Tabitha did.

Is he just a troll if he actually believes what he's saying and assaults women? I don't think so.

And also what you said is irrelevant to what you quoted soooo

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

So if I defend the right of the KKK to march if they choose, as a black man, I'm simultaneously in favor of the message they're spewing? That's fucking stupid

Do you want a cookie for defending the right of people who want you dead to march

 

[Royce McCutcheon]

Why did the court not rule that this was attempted murder then?

Why do crooked cops go free and blacks get charged at a disproportionate rate compared to whites? The hell if I know. I do know a bat to the head can kill someone.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Both deserve to be punished and I can't defend either of their actions.

 

[CarpeDeezNutz]

So if I defend the right of the KKK to march if they choose, as a black man, I'm simultaneously in favor of the message they're spewing? That's fucking stupid

Why even defend it though? Seems like you are by default.

Edit: it's funny you bring up the KKK cos I have been to rural towns where people have no qualms about wearing KKK shirts. Some of their lovely shirts say "Better not see your black ass in my town" you want to defend that? I'm Mexican and that shit made me uneasy.

 

[Psychoward]

Why do crooked cops go free and blacks get charged at a disproportionate rate compared to whites? The hell if I know. I do know a bat to the head can kill someone.

Wrong answer! The correct answer is because the blow wasn't close to being fatal and it was only one hit because the attempt for murder was never there no matter what you try to convince yourself.

 

[Metaphoreus]

also yeah idk why you guys are entertaining a semantics stickler with a scalia avatar, i'd rather hit my head against the wall (or get hit in the head with a bat hyuk hyuk)

This will come as a shock to you, but not everybody who uses the Internet just wants to shout into an echo chamber.

As for the bat thing, I know a girl...

 

[Psychoward]

This will come as a shock to you, but not everybody who uses the Internet just wants to shout into an echo chamber.

As for the bat thing, I know a girl...

Not everybody wants to argue with people who support pieces of trash either cause their time is better spent with arguing with people who at least have some fundamental moral standards they can agree on.

Fuck I played myself huh

 

[Royce McCutcheon]

Not everybody wants to argue with people who support pieces of trash either cause their time is better spent with arguing with people who at least have some fundamental moral standards they can agree on.

Fuck I played myself huh

This is the worst of them all, if you advocate non violence, you obviously support rape?

 

[Psychoward]

This is the worst of them all, if you advocate non violence, you obviously support rape?

what

I was referring to this lovely fellow

 

[Prototype Viktor]

have we added "pro-rape" to our "punch a Nazi/supremacist" list?

 

[Got]

This will come as a shock to you, but not everybody who uses the Internet just wants to shout into an echo chamber.

As for the bat thing, I know a girl...

delicious

 

[Metaphoreus]

Not everybody wants to argue with people who support pieces of trash either cause their time is better spent with arguing with people who at least have some fundamental moral standards they can agree on.

Fuck I played myself huh

Right, but like I said, some people--not you, obviously--aren't just looking for an echo chamber.

 

[Tonedeff]

Do you want a cookie for defending the right of people who want you dead to march

Lol

 

[iirate]

The guy is walking around shouting inflammatory stuff while recording the whole thing. You're obviously being trolled and baited.

Ignore him and alert the authorities. That is the best course of action.

Assaulting him on camera is the worst one. It's idiotic.

The authorities ignored the situation.

He used words that COULD have damaged. She used force that DID damage, and COULD have killed.

You asked, I answered. Sorry you didn't like the answer.

Assault with a deadly weapon is assault with a deadly weapon regardless of outcome.

The "damage" in these two instances are not equivalent at all. The effect of hate speech on oppressed communities is all too well known(especially by the groups experiencing it), so stop acting like his violence is hypothetical. It really isn't.

Saying that something is legal doesn't mean that you agree with it. And of course a form of assault that is potentially lethal is worse than a guy holding a sign, no matter what it says on it.

If you're arguing legality and not morality, will you please stop responding to moral arguments with legal opinion?

 

[Got]

Right, but like I said, some people--not you, obviously--aren't just looking for an echo chamber.

so good

 

[Night Angel]

The "damage" in these two instances are not equivalent at all. The effect of hate speech on oppressed communities is all too well known(especially by the groups experiencing it), so stop acting like his violence is hypothetical. It really isn't.

Can they both be bad, or do I have to like one to hate the other? Pretty sure I've made it abundantly clear that his message is harmful. But so is hitting a man in the head with a bat.

 

[eot]

And yet no one but a few of are seeing it from her point of view, as responding to a threat, that continued despite numerous legal avenues attempted to stop it. Again, should we just ignore people like this? Even though it perpetuates the culture that leads to a horrifying number of rapes every day?

And it's more than 'saying something is legal' people are defending the man and shitting all over the girl.

There's a lot of space between doing nothing and taking a baseball bat to someone's head. I don't know exactly where I draw the line but I know it's before that. If she'd shot him, would that have been okay with you? Because the bat to the head very well could have accomplished the same thing.

 

[Night Angel]

There's a lot of space between doing nothing and taking a baseball bat to someone's head. I don't know exactly where I draw the line but I know it's before that. If she'd shot him, would that have been okay with you? Because the bat to the head very well could have accomplished the same thing.

The narrative we're supposed to buy right now is that literally nothing but violence would stop this. I'm choosing not to do so because it's a ridiculous presumption.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

If you actually believe this, why not track him down and do it yourself instead of cheerleading someone else? Or are you just bloviating on a video game message board?

If he lived in the UK, I'd happily have a word as he stood outside a school spouting that shit, but as I live in a less batshit insane country, I wouldn't have time as the police would be along in short order and arrest him for breaching the peace and intimidation of young children.

 

[Opto]

Because this is an active thread, I see the words "you deserve to be raped" a lot when refreshing the Off Topic page. Now, I've never been raped, but just seeing these words (in a very objective context not aimed at anyone here and removed from the original context, lessening its impact), it's kinda getting to me.

So I'm starting to understand why someone would have enough of this and go after someone who was intending harm, and was targeting a group of people.

 

[Kyuur]

A classic example of why hate speech laws should exist in the first place.

 

[iirate]

Can they both be bad, or do I have to like one to hate the other? Pretty sure I've made it abundantly clear that his message is harmful. But so is hitting a man in the head with a bat.

I'm not saying you haven't. I'm not going to tell you how to feel about this. You were arguing in a way that frames the two actions as equivalent. Even if you think they're both bad, there are far more women being raped than there are men being physically assaulted for advocating rape. Both actions are violent. This man is supporting an epidemic of violence, and his attacker was responding to it, after no one else(including the authorities) would.

 

[Auto-Reply]

Can they both be bad, or do I have to like one to hate the other? Pretty sure I've made it abundantly clear that his message is harmful. But so is hitting a man in the head with a bat.

Maybe there is another perspective to have, that the police failed the people here, or maybe even more the law failed the police so they in turn failed the people because there was nothing they could do.

Regular citizens shouldn't have to put up with fanatics like that and shouldn't be forced into situations that everybody thought should be preventable from the start.

 

[99Luffy]

A classic example of why hate speech laws should exist in the first place.

Naw. Id prefer being allowed to say Donald trump deserves to be shot and not go to jail. Not raped though, someone might hit me with a baseball bat.

 

[Eusis]

Naw. Id prefer being allowed to say Donald trump deserves to be shot and not go to jail. Not raped though, someone might hit me with a baseball bat.

The secret service will be on your ass for that actually.

 

[99Luffy]

The secret service will be on your ass for that actually.

Kathy griffin would be in jail already.

 

[iirate]

Naw. Id prefer being allowed to say Donald trump deserves to be shot and not go to jail. Not raped though, someone might hit me with a baseball bat.

Are you part of a class that is being systematically discriminated against? Are white supremacists(of the same ilk running the USA right now) calling you "less", erasing your identity entirely, or threatening people like you?

If you're not, you may wish to think about how the majority of people who aren't cis, white, and male in this country feel right now and decide if that's worth your right to wish Trump dead(as opposed to wishing he was rotting in prison the rest of his life).

 

[Eusis]

Kathy griffin would be in jail already.

And secret service did pay her a visit. Granted you might not inherently go to jail but you wouldn't be free to just say it without them hounding you for it. And I bet they'd do SOMETHING if you adamantly kept shouting it.

 

[Kyuur]

Naw. Id prefer being allowed to say Donald trump deserves to be shot and not go to jail. Not raped though, someone might hit me with a baseball bat.

Being Donald Trump isn't a protected class. Although I guess in the US, LGBTQ people might not be either.

 

[Siegcram]

Naw. Id prefer being allowed to say Donald trump deserves to be shot and not go to jail. Not raped though, someone might hit me with a baseball bat.

Yeah, death threats to your head of state are a great example of your superior approach to free speech you genius.