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[Kagari]

Gohan and 17 above Freeza just because of how long it's been since RoF and how they stood up to Blue.

 

[Slaythe]

Gohan didn't really take Goku by surprise, the tiny scuffle when he was blue was even.

I am not saying he used a surprise attack I'm saying Goku underestimated Gohan and dropped his guard.

Otherwise there is no way to make sense of the ssj2 fight because Gohan clearly stated he was at his max.

Gohan and 17 above Freeza just because of how long it's been since RoF and how they stood up to Blue.

Undead Frieza is probably on top of everyone since he probably doesn't have the energy drain.

 

[Turin]

I got the impression Goku's intentions with 17 were the same as when he went Blue against Krillin. He wanted to see how they responded against the kind of power they'd be faced with in the tournament.

With Gohan, Goku wanted to get in a hard sparring session since Gohan challenged him. He pushed himself at SS2 with a power handicap until Gohan started dominating and demanding Blue. It was a brief scuffle but one that indicates Gohan's about on the level.

 

[longdi]

17 power creep is nonsense. The last time we saw 17, he was on par with picolo and a far way off from the ssjs. Trunks could have finger flicked him during the Cell games.

I know he has saiyan genes but we don't see him transforming. Like freeza, 17 is probably one of toriyama favoured character. At least freeza has a free pass because of his race.

 

[Kagari]

With Gohan, Goku wanted to get in a hard sparring session since Gohan challenged him. He pushed himself at SS2 with a power handicap until Gohan started dominating and demanding Blue. It was a brief scuffle but one that indicates Gohan's about on the level.

The narration supports this, so that's how I see it.

 

[Slaythe]

17 power creep is nonsense. The last time we saw 17, he was on par with picolo and a far way off from the ssjs. Trunks could have finger flicked him during the Cell games.

I know he has saiyan genes but we don't see him transforming. Like freeza, 17 is probably one of toriyama favoured character. At least freeza has a free pass because of his race.

This is really dumb.

17 has no saiyan genes. And Frieza gets a pass for his race ? 17 was stronger than Frieza, what kind of logic is that ?

He's not a normal human.

 

[NeonZ]

I got the impression Goku's intentions with 17 were the same as when he went Blue against Krillin. He wanted to see how they responded against the kind of power they'd be faced with in the tournament.

Nah, Goku outright says he didn't intend to use Blue against 17. He went Blue because he needed to do it.

 

[Turin]

Nah, Goku outright says he didn't intend to use Blue against 17. He went Blue because he needed to do it.

Oh right. I'll hold the L on that part then. I'll stand by the latter statement.

 

[Slaythe]

I got the impression Goku's intentions with 17 were the same as when he went Blue against Krillin. He wanted to see how they responded against the kind of power they'd be faced with in the tournament.

With Gohan, Goku wanted to get in a hard sparring session since Gohan challenged him. He pushed himself at SS2 with a power handicap until Gohan started dominating and demanding Blue. It was a brief scuffle but one that indicates Gohan's about on the level.

Er.. even if that's what you believe, that stoppped the second 17 tanked his kamehameha.

Gohan has to beg Goku several times before he agreed to.

Gohan said he was at max power against ssj2, so it's impossible Goku got weaker in Blue form.

The punches meant Gohan fought better than Goku and he was around that realm, certainly not that he was stronger than Blue. Goku sustained no damage.

 

[Turin]

Er.. even if that's what you believe, that stoppped the second 17 tanked his kamehameha.

Gohan has to beg Goku several times before he agreed to.

Gohan said he was at max power against ssj2, so it's impossible Goku got weaker in Blue form.

The punches meant Gohan fought better than Goku and he was around that realm, certainly not that he was stronger than Blue. Goku sustained no damage.

I've never believed he was.

Already conceded on the other point.

 

[ArchedThunder]

.. even if that's what you believe, that stoppped the second 17 tanked his kamehameha.

Gohan has to beg Goku several times before he agreed to.

Gohan said he was at max power against ssj2, so it's impossible Goku got weaker in Blue form.

The punches meant Gohan fought better than Goku and he was around that realm, certainly not that he was stronger than Blue. Goku sustained no damage.

Gohan was fighting worse than Goku, Goku was fighting smart, Gohan turned the tables and it was clear he was above SSJ2. My guess is that he's probably somewhere in-between SSJ3 Goku and Blue Goku, close enough to go toe to toe, but not close enough to win in a battle of power.

 

[NandoGip]

Lets try again

Top tier
Goku, Vegeta, Freeza

Second tier
17, Gohan, Piccolo, 18?

Cannon fodder tier
Krillin, roshi, tenshinhan

 

[Ashodin]

Ya'll just gonna leave me, the maestro of titles outta the OT title game huh

Dragon Ball Super |OT7| I just thought we'd all stay near the middle.
Dragon Ball Super |OT7| Everybody Hates Frieza
Dragon Ball Super |OT7| What do a freezer, a flute, and some robots have in common?
Dragon Ball Super |OT7| Pride Before The Fall
Dragon Ball Super |OT7| Ikei, Minna!
Dragon Ball Super |OT7| All You Need Is Kill
Dragon Ball Super |OT7| Whoever Wins, We All Lose
Dragon Ball Super |OT7| Is it getting cold in here?
Dragon Ball Super |OT7| The 10th member will freeze you in your tracks.
Dragon Ball Super |OT7| Tien Got Done Dirty
Dragon Ball Super |OT7| Gohan, Krillin, Tien, Roshi, and some Villains
Dragon Ball Super |OT7| Goku is the villain (no, really)
Dragon Ball Super |OT7| Universe Survival? More like drama survival.
Dragon Ball Super |OT7| Survivor: Tournament of Power Edition
Dragon Ball Super |OT7| There's no way this ends well
Dragon Ball Super |OT7| Baseball is a better sport anyway.
Dragon Ball Super |OT7| I've gotten over my worldly desires!
Dragon Ball Super |OT7| What's old is new again... again

 

[ArchedThunder]

Dragon Ball Super |OT7| Tien is the new Yamcha

 

[Turin]

Dragon Ball Super |OT7| Tien is the new Yamcha

 

[Kagari]

We should use that other Yamcha one just because it was so good.

 

[Slaythe]

Gohan was fighting worse than Goku, Goku was fighting smart, Gohan turned the tables and it was clear he was above SSJ2. My guess is that he's probably somewhere in-between SSJ3 Goku and Blue Goku, close enough to go toe to toe, but not close enough to win in a battle of power.

Of course, I agree with that.
I just added that if fighting smart made such a difference one way, you have to consider it the other way around too. Since Goku wasn't damaged or in pain, it didn't convey to me that Gohan surpassed him, just that Gohan is strong enough to win trades and fought better.

But to go back to the point, Frieza should be stronger than him.

 

[Kagari]

No one is saying Gohan surpassed Goku though. Just that he's near his level, or at least getting there. Which, again, was backed up by the narration and magazine previews.

 

[The Silver]

Gohan and 17 above Freeza just because of how long it's been since RoF and how they stood up to Blue.

you should know they don't care about that kind of shit, I'd bet anything they'll portray Frieza as the 3rd strongest

 

[Byakuya769]

Dragon Ball Super |OT7| What else might slip?

 

[ArchedThunder]

We should use that other Yamcha one just because it was so good.

Tien is the new Yamcha?
Yamcha is fake news?

Of course, I agree with that.
I just added that if fighting smart made such a difference one way, you have to consider it the other way around too. Since Goku wasn't damaged or in pain, it didn't convey to me that Gohan surpassed him, just that Gohan is strong enough to win trades and fought better.

But to go back to the point, Frieza should be stronger than him.

Like I put in my power scale guess, I think Goku, Vegeta, Freeza and 17 are above Gohan.

 

[Khansolo1]

Can a god of destruction join in in the tournament of power?
I was wondering when boo fell asleep why couldn't beerus join?
I mean it is 10 people that are strongest is in the universe, and certainly Beerus is one of them.

 

[Turin]

With some of these call backs, I'm looking for Gohan to pull out the ole rage head-butt against a really tall opponent.

 

[Kagari]

With some of these call backs, I'm looking for Gohan to pull out the ole rage head-butt against a really tall opponent.

Except it feels like they basically said: "rage boosts are dumb, don't do that anymore" with him.

 

[L Thammy]

Freeza's unlocked a new form, Blue Freeza, which is stronger than Gohan and 17. Unfortunately he hasn't practiced using it and so he has no stamina.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Freeza's unlocked a new form, Blue Freeza, which is stronger than Gohan and 17. Unfortunately he hasn't practiced using it and so he has no stamina.

Transforms and immediately passes out.

 

[Crimson_Echidna]

This is how I see the team ranking.

1: Goku
2: Vegeta
3: Freeza
4: Gohan
5: 17
6: Piccolo
7: 18
8: Krillin
9: Roshi
10: Tenshinhan

Feel free to tell me how wrong I am.

I think you're taking that Roshi possession episode too much at face value.

 

[Turin]

Except it feels like they basically said: "rage boosts are dumb, don't do that anymore" with him.

Not talking about boosts, dude. Just an angry head butt to the solar plexus.

 

[L Thammy]

Undead Frieza is probably on top of everyone since he probably doesn't have the energy drain.

Wait, I'm thinking about this seriously now. When you've got the temporary revival by Baba, things that should drain your stamina instead drain the amount of time you have left, right?

Could Freeza just vanish from the tournament and land himself back in Hell because he's been in Golden form too long?

And if he's in a space between universes, would he be able to go to Earth's Hell, or could his soul vanish into the ether or something?

 

[Fulminator]

OT7|I want my Boogie Back|

 

[ArchedThunder]

Wait, I'm thinking about this seriously now. When you've got the temporary revival by Baba, things that should drain your stamina instead drain the amount of time you have left, right?

Could Freeza just vanish from the tournament and land himself back in Hell because he's been in Golden form too long?

And if he's in a space between universes, would he be able to go to Earth's Hell, or could his soul vanish into the ether or something?

Didn't Baba have to actually take Goku back to the other world when it time ran out?

 

[L Thammy]

Didn't Baba have to actually take Goku back to the other world when it time ran out?

I forget. I only remember that Super Saiyan 3 burned through the time limit. What would happen if Baba didn't bring him back?

 

[Undead Fantasy]

What does hitting Goku twice mean exactly ?

Gohan was at full power against ssj2 Goku and he got hit plenty of times.

Gohan did zero damage to Goku. It's kinda like Vegeta vs Beerus.

Gohan took Goku by surprise but he didn't damage him.

Nope.

It was very clear he was holding back until Goku used Blue.

 

[Slaythe]

Nope.

It was very clear he was holding back until Goku used Blue.

No. And you don't even have to take my word for it, Gohan said he was at full power.

 

[Fulminator]

Didn't Baba have to actually take Goku back to the other world when it time ran out?

I think she did, yeah

 

[L Thammy]

Also, I can't help but think that "I've overcome my worldly desires" is equivalent to "I am master of my domain".

 

[Fulminator]

Nope.

It was very clear he was holding back until Goku used Blue.

No. And you don't even have to take my word for it, Gohan said he was at full power.

Yup slaythe is right, Gohan is using his full power from the get go

 

[Undead Fantasy]

No. And you don't even have to take my word for it, Gohan said he was at full power.

Yes.

Right after Goku turns Blue Gohan says "See my full power" and fights Blue Goku on par.

 

[Kagari]

No. And you don't even have to take my word for it, Gohan said he was at full power.

He does but later on when he starts beating Goku he says "See my full strength."

Edit: Beat.

 

[ElFly]

I don't get it
But then again I also can't read it

goku can no longer ride kinton, because he no longer has a pure heart, due to all the lying he did in this last arc

 

[L Thammy]

Just because Gohan is using 100% of his power, it doesn't mean that he's using 100% of 100%.

 

[Skeeter49]

He does but later on when he starts beating Goku he says "See my full strength."

Edit: Beat.

His aura/ ki around his body gets bigger as well when he says that.

 

[Fulminator]

He does but later on when he starts beating Goku he says "See my full strength."

Edit: Beat.

Yes.

Right after Goku turns Blue Gohan says "See my full power" and fights Blue Goku on par.

I think he more meant "recognize that this is me fighting at full power, so use your full strength as well"

It would be weird for him to straight up say "this is my current full power" only to somehow get stronger a couple minutes later

E: he says "with full strength" and then "at my full strength", I feel like I'm correct in my assumption after watching the scene again

 

[Just_myles]

No. And you don't even have to take my word for it, Gohan said he was at full power.

It's funny that you always make the case for 17 being relevant.

Because of you I actually looked back and did notice that 17 maybe isn't so bad. His showing in the anime at least was a good one.

Just thought I lost that.

 

[Skeeter49]

Just because Gohan is using 100% of his power, it doesn't mean that he's using 100% of 100%.

Gohan saying he was at full power after going Ultimate was the equivalent of Frieza saying he was in his final form.

 

[Shadow_Lord]

I'm very behind on this. Is there a reason that the Manga and Anime versions of DBS are different?

 

[L Thammy]

I'm very behind on this. Is there a reason that the Manga and Anime versions of DBS are different?

They aren't that strongly connected; Toriyama gives them his designs and plot outlines and then they do their own thing.

Toyotaro (the manga dude) did the character designs for most of the Gods of Destruction though, the same designs that are used in the anime.

 

[Magwik]

I'm very behind on this. Is there a reason that the Manga and Anime versions of DBS are different?

Toyataro is on a quest to make the most confusing version of Dragon Ball

 

[ArchedThunder]

I'm very behind on this. Is there a reason that the Manga and Anime versions of DBS are different?

The manga was started as a promotional tool for the anime basically. Toriyama writes the outline for an arc and designs the characters and then Toei and Toyotaro (the guy doing the manga) give their own interpretations of that outline.
As of this arc Toyotaro is also helping Toriyama design characters and as of the most recent episode he even has a credit in the anime designating that he provides "character design assistance".

 

[A Pretty Panda]

OT7|I want my Boogie Back|

This. I vote for this.