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UK General Election 2017 |OT2| No Government is better than a bad Government
- Thread starter Jezbollah
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Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
I don't think it made it into the manifesto, but I'm pretty sure Corbyn's been pretty vocal about moving away from FPTP in the past. It may be something that the rest of the party... diluted, however.
JonnyDBrit
Member
Oh yeah, their proposed solution/threat to Hard Brexit is to go full tax haven, isn't it?
Wonder if they're reconsidering after all the backlash to austerity politics this year...
They don't have another mode than full on cunt. They're Tories.
Norwegian_Imposter
Member
Dude your lib dems are a spent force
It's shit like this that really brings down the quality of the conversation. Can we please not?
JonnyDBrit
Member
A lot of people do, though Boris will certainly be one of the easier to connect. If he hadn't made those cuts to the London Fire Brigade, the response could have been better. The question is, are the Tories willing to drop him when he's one of the few public faces they have?
Huw_Dawson
Member
Agreed.
"Hurr durr, Corbyn is dumb, his mate McDonnell is a communist and they have a magic money tree". It is belittling as a discussion.
The Tory economic policy right now is to not have one. They don't have a leader, a government, a manifesto, a direction, a hope or a prayer.
The overarching impression in the country right now is that nobody is really in control. The only people with any modicum of authority right now are Sturgeon, Foster and Carwyn Jones - Westminster and Downing Street are rudderless.
Under first past the post. For now. The last few votes should reinforce the mistakes to be made thinking how it is now is how it will always be.Dude your lib dems are a spent force
Also...
Can we please stop dogpilling on Huw?
A thousand times this.
Boris is seemingly immortal, even at his bloody weakest(!) he was made foreign​ sec.
Insanity.
Boris Johnson's sister thinks Theresa May is also a victim of the Grenfell fire:
http://www.lbc.co.uk/news/london/we...grenfell/?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral
Heard quite a few people defending May and her lack of empathy/response over the past few days.
http://www.lbc.co.uk/news/london/we...grenfell/?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral
Heard quite a few people defending May and her lack of empathy/response over the past few days.
Kind of disgusting really, but then it is Boris's sister
He vetoed a load of safety rulings as well, the guy is scum.
It might surprise some, but she is not actually that bad. I think she is Lib Dem now? She certainly isn't a Tory shill or anything like that. Atleast not from what I have seen of her.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Actually I do want folks to consider that irrelevant line a bit more because there is a couple of LD related things that do relate to Labour quite a lot in the coming parliament (supposing the government lasts) -
1. The Tories don't have a mandate for their manifesto and don't have a majority in the HoL. If Lib Dem and Labour peers work together, lots of work can be done to block Tory plans. Labour in the HoL will need to think how they want to manage that as they failed to work with the LDs on A50.
2. LD votes in the HoC will be needed for any vote Corbyn plans, Labour amendments and so on. So there will need to be cross-party work done there.
What is going to be needed for the uncertain length of time between now and the next election is a viable working relationship across the opposition parties to hold the government to account and force them to difficult votes. Even if May is in Number 10, there is a lot of work that can be done by people acknowledging differences and working together for the good of the country.
1. The Tories don't have a mandate for their manifesto and don't have a majority in the HoL. If Lib Dem and Labour peers work together, lots of work can be done to block Tory plans. Labour in the HoL will need to think how they want to manage that as they failed to work with the LDs on A50.
2. LD votes in the HoC will be needed for any vote Corbyn plans, Labour amendments and so on. So there will need to be cross-party work done there.
What is going to be needed for the uncertain length of time between now and the next election is a viable working relationship across the opposition parties to hold the government to account and force them to difficult votes. Even if May is in Number 10, there is a lot of work that can be done by people acknowledging differences and working together for the good of the country.
QuicheFontaine
Member
I didn't think the response was inadequate - the fire brigade were there in six minutes - but more the years of inattention that lead to the fire starting in the first place.
Rachel Johnson is actually centre-left and has criticised Boris & the Tories several times.
It's amazing this has been barely mentioned. N.I is such a gigantic cluster fuck important points are being missed.
The tories have have now tied their reputation to DUP, best hope nothing is found...
Huw_Dawson
Member
Yup, there seems to have been a failing from all sides to recognise the dangers posed by not taking a safety-first approach to maintaining Grenfell tower, and other tower blocks. Too many voices ignored and an appalling death toll as the consequence. The Tories have a singular responsibility as the leading party of government for the past seven years, and being in control of the council and city, to answer very real questions.
Let's not get carried away she was tory until 2015 and switched to LDs due to brexit.
Fair enough.
From what I've heard, the initial response was quick, but there's more than getting one engine to a fire of this type, it's getting the right type and quantity of appliances.
They were calling in height equipment from Kent and Surrey.
Its beautiful, they wanted Thatcher to happen unfortunately they got hated early 90s rumbled Thatcher.
QuicheFontaine
Member
That's fair enough, I wasn't aware of that. I just hadn't heard the response mentioned as being inadequate up to this point. If what you've heard is the case then I'm sure it will come to light in due course.
vonStirlitz
Unconfirmed Member
The more I read about the current situation, the more I think the past few years are going to be a history book lesson in 70 years where kids learn how hubris, egos and lack of direction got the UK to where it is (which will be some sort of impoverished dystopic pariah state at the North of the wealthy European federation).
SlipperyFishes
Banned
It's not dogpiling. For every single discussion a member of the Liberal Democrats (one who intends to get further into the party game) has turned this into a "only the Lib Dems can save us, Labour suck etc."
Refuting that position with alternating opinions isn't dogpiling, it's at most representative of the national mood on the LD party (few in this thread support them in proportion to those supporting Labour - like IRL)
If he didn't respond with "But the Lib Dems" every few messages then maybe that response wouldn't be so visible and repetitive. Read back through these politics threads and you'd see he's here as a member of his party first, a Gaffer from the UK second.
As a party there's no leadership right now for the LDs which means there's no direction and no reason to trust them. We can see the opposite for Labour and for the Tories, well at least they have a firebrand for now.
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
Crushed by the saboteurs iirc
frankie_baby
Member
Mad May meeting a few survivors at downing street, presumably checked they were tory voters first
They definitely called in the 42m appliance from Surrey. The support from Kent might 'just' be the Urban search and rescue.
Surrey Fire and Rescue Service
June 14 at 7:51am
#SFRS have sent Leatherhead's Aerial Ladder Platform (42m) with supporting appliance to the serious fire in London.
Not sure why Surrey would have a specialist height appliance and London would not. You'd think it'd be the other way around.
frankie_baby
Member
BoJo probably flogged any london had to pay for lunch
UK's worst PM in leopard-print kitten heels.
We can only hope this leads to the downfall of the Tories and Lib Dems. The status quo has failed us, and they want to enforce it. We need some type of change.
JonnyDBrit
Member
Yeah, I was speaking more in the sense of getting more crews to scene quickly, not just the very initial response. Getting 1 crew in 6 minutes is one thing, but even having 5 there within half an hour over 4 (obviously not necessarily the actual numbers, just an example) would mean more people on hand to get people to safety sooner. Especially since there were apparently stations closed not that far from Grenfell Tower - they could have especially helped the bolster the early hours of the response, which were the most vital.
Lol precisely
What a load of shit.
This
is dogpiling.Dude your lib dems are a spent force
Billy_Pilgrim
Member
I spent the last two years wandering round under a cloud of certain, impending doom. I have to say I've never been happier to be wrong about anything.
There is a definite shift away from right wing, Mail driven lunacy. It just never materialised until June 8th.
The election never ended. The problems didn't just go away, people have had enough of this shit. The Tories are clinging on because they know it's going one way for them.
The Tories in particular will be fascinating to watch. I can't think of a lot that they can do or say at this point to placate the anger and resentment a large percentage of the country feel without going directly against their modus operandi. The great lie that is austerity has finally caught up with them.
Just to say, as an older poster, we have been here before. Don't forget that whilst she suffered a humiliating step down over expectations, May still got the most votes despite everything. Also don't forget that after the poll tax riots, even then they managed to scrape together another conservative government under Major once they replaced the figurehead.
It's not over till the Tory lady sings basically.
Done a bit of digging online about fire equipment.
There's no appliance in the UK which could reach the top of Grenfell tower, the Surrey appliance at 42m is the largest in the country.
London Fire Brigade;s aerial platforms top out at 30m. They've got 7 of them active, with 5 on reserve.
There's no appliance in the UK which could reach the top of Grenfell tower, the Surrey appliance at 42m is the largest in the country.
London Fire Brigade;s aerial platforms top out at 30m. They've got 7 of them active, with 5 on reserve.
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