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[VlaudTheImpaler]

I've been playing games on console for my entire life. I recently built up the courage to build a PC. I never planned to go all in like I did but it just happened and I ended up never looking back to consoles except for one thing...

I couldn't help but feeling depressed about trying to get used to KB+M specifically for shooters. You see, I've been playing shooters competitively on console for the better part of my life. And now that I had switched to PC I was struggling a lot with shooters specifically.

It was getting to the point that I was having health issues. I would get so tense because my brain was going faster than my fingers could get used to with KB+M that I would sometimes get severe pain in my shoulders in between my shoulder blades.

You see, I thought it was the mouse that was screwing me up. I was wrong.

So, there I was, trying out Warframe. This time I was determined to try to get used to KB+M even though it was such a bear in the past. This time I would take it slow and play in small amounts. See, Warframe had grabbed me and I was loving it. I wanted to get used to KB+M with a game that I loved that would make it harder for me to quit because I am anticipating playing Anthem on PC when it releases and would like to actually start to try to play competitively again. So I had time.

Anyway, I was messing around with the keybindings trying to find something that didn't jar me so much and that felt efficient (to no avail). After I exited the menu I reached across my IRL desk for a cherry (farmers markets are awesome) and I accidentally bumped my controller while at the same time my other hand was moving the mouse... I saw my character move and at the same time the mouse was moving the view. There was no UI change or lag like I've seen in some games where you switch inputs. I thought that was standard...

That's when it hit me. Oh snap. No way this is going to work... But it did. I put the controller in my left hand and the mouse in my right and everything clicked. Like, I swear, it was like my world had changed. As if my pituitary gland was laying in wait for it's chance to strike and decided to drop an endorphin bomb on my brain.

I then did some quick keybinding to both controller and mouse, I have a naga with 12 side buttons so plenty of room for skills. And then it dawned on me again... I have an Elite controller! Two extra buttons with just the left hand and in the flipping perfect position.

This combination INSTANTLY increased my performance 100 fold. I was able to switch to public play and constantly came in second and third playing with KB+M users when before I was always last. Remember, I've only discovered this yesterday and I've only been trying hard to play with a mouse for 4 days. Every other time I'd end up giving up.

This time there was no pain. I don't get so tense at all and I can play for hours take quick break and come back. Where before I could play for hours... if I wanted to have pain and have to take at least an entire day off of playing.

I figured out that it wasn't the mouse that was messing me up. It was the left hand trying to get used to the keyboard and the awkward way that I had to press buttons that where no where near where my fingers felt comfortable. Not to mention button combos. All of this not matching up to how I had trained my brain my whole life was making me stress out.

A huge part of it was the lack of precision that you have using WASD over a joystick with movement. There is hardly any granularity on the keyboard but with the joystick you can move slower or faster depending on how far you press the stick out. On KB you are also taking up three fingers with WASD where on a controller you are only using your thumb freeing up other fingers to be ready on buttons that you could be pressing faster.

So now, I feel like I have the best of both worlds. I have the AMAZING precision of the mouse and the FAR more comfortable and precise use of my left hand for movement and finger utilization.

I was being serious when I said that it was really bumming me out trying to get used to KB+M before. There are so many FPS's coming out and are already out that I want to get into and experience on PC and be competitive again because I love it and it would have nagged at me that I was at a disadvantage using solely a controller. I had tears in my eyes after trying this and it working so well.

Have any of you heard of this? I'm prepared to feel like a dunce if this is common knowledge but I had never heard of it before.

If you've never heard of it though and you can relate to my story, you should definitely give this a try! It could change everything.

So far I've tried this with Warframe, Metro and DOOM and they all work flawlessly! How many other games let you do this?! I held off buying SO many games because of my previous situation but this would get me into them for sure.

 

[MrToast]

That's the beauty of it, you don't need to limit yourself, you have the option of any style of setup.

 

[McDougles]

Whatever makes you happy, Woolie.

 

[CO_Andy]

what controller did you use?

 

[MohitParty]

Would a joycon plus mouse work? Would be probably easier to hold

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

what controller did you use?

My Elite controller.

This all makes me wonder if there are dedicated controllers for this type of setup. I'd definitely be interested.

The 2 buttons on the back of the left side of the Elite controller are in the perfect spot.

I could see a controller made specifically for this having one for the pinky as well.

Would a joycon plus mouse work? Would be probably easier to hold

Probably. It would have less buttons though and probably not as comfortably placed. As it is with the Elite, every finger rests perfectly on a usable button except for my pinky.

 

[ThisIsMyDogKyle]

Have you considered getting a Steam controller?

 

[Spring-Loaded]

That sounds dope. I really have never liked wasd over joystick overall despite the former's advantages. joystick is way more comfortable for me on the non-mouse hand.

What other games does his work on? I need a list

 

[Zocano]

Whatever makes you happy, Woolie.

This made me laugh harder than it should have.

 

[nynt9]

Whatever makes you happy, Woolie.

haha, fuck.

Not every game will support this, beware. Some games switch between M+KB and controller mode based on which device you press buttons on. You might wanna get one of those keyboards with an analog:

 

[Uhyve]

Wonder if you could get one of these working on PC nicely.

Bet it'd be almost perfect for that kind of set up.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

That sounds dope. I really have never liked wasd over joystick overall despite the former's advantages. joystick is way more comfortable for me on the non-mouse hand.

What other games does his work on? I need a list

So far Warframe, Metro and Doom are what I have tested and they work perfectly.

I would LOVE a list of more competitive games like PUBG and Overwatch etc.

 

[Dynomutt]

This all makes me wonder if there are dedicated controllers for this type of setup. I'd definitely be interested.

Not PC but like this?

If so I agree! That is how I played the shooter parts of Marlow Briggs lol! My logitech controller and mouse.

 

[Sinatar]

The wonders of an open platform.

Play what you want, how you want. If something doesn't work the way you want, change it.

 

[hanspampel]

You should play gears of war 4
Controller for movement and mouse for aim should be a great advantage

 

[oni-link]

While the mouse is clearly superior to an analogue stick, the continued persistence of WASD over an analogue stick puzzles me

An analogue stick is designed to move a character in a 3D space, a keyboard is an implement designed for typing

It's cool that people enjoy WASD, but it's never been ideal

 

[akira28]

yeah its a thing. mouse for pinpoint camera and aim control and controller for general movement.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

You should play gears of war 4
Controller for movement and mouse for aim should be a great advantage

Holy poop I forgot I had that. BRB checking now.

 

[Dictator93]

It is great you could find your spot OP.
I still think you would need a very specific design to allow for great button mapping as you find on a keyboard. For example I jsut beat turok 2 and I had 1-4 on the keyboard being separate weapons, Q, E being separate weps. G, being another. Tab and shift being other ones. And then of course crtl + space for crouch and jump, respectively, and M for map. Then tab when I wanted to look in the console since I am a nerd.

You would have to have a really interesting controller idea to allow that finegrain choice for key mapping that is so easily reachable.

I really do want an analog movement scheme though to modify WASD!

 

[SolarMystic]

Holy shit, gonna try this later. I hate wasd, screw wrist cramps.

 

[CountAntonius]

Yeah i wanted to do this years ago but figured not every game would support it or I'd run out of buttons so decided not to. It's an appealing idea though.

 

[venomenon]

Sounds pretty awesome, nice that it works so well for you.
Might give it a try, but I imagine you really need to get accustomed to it at first. A wiimote-like controller would be perfect for this.

And it should be mappable like the Steam controller. A lack of support for the mixed binding might indeed be a problem.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

It is great you could find your spot OP.
I still think you would need a very specific design to allow for great button mapping as you find on a keyboard. For example I jsut beat turok 2 and I had 1-4 on the keyboard being separate weapons, Q, E being separate weps. G, being another. Tab and shift being other ones. And then of course crtl + space for crouch and jump, respectively, and M for map. Then tab when I wanted to look in the console since I am a nerd.

You would have to have a really interesting controller idea to allow that finegrain choice for key mapping that is so easily reachable.

I really do want an analog movement scheme though to modify WASD!

I think you could have submenus. I don't know what to call it but like when you hold a button and it changes the function of the others while it's held for a lot of that stuff that doesn't need to be immediate. Reaching across the keyboard is going to take the same amount of time but you are also taking your fingers off of priority buttons on the keyboard like WASD when reaching for those where on the controller you have 3 buttons that you could have your fingers already on when you hold down the submenu button that are ready to press and you can take your thumb off the joystick for the Dpad if you need to.

Either way, I have a Razer Naga mouse with 12 side buttons that I could map any function to that I would need that wasn't on the controller and with the controller there are more fingers resting on useable buttons that don't have to move nearly as much compared to a keyboard.

Sounds pretty awesome, nice that it works so well for you.
Might give it a try, but I imagine you really need to get accustomed to it at first. A wiimote-like controller should be perfect for this.

But that is the thing, for me since I was used to controllers my whole life, it was immediately an improvement and hardly took any time at all for me to get used to.

 

[Imbarkus]

I did this for a while. Play Mass Effect 1-3 on my Macbook Pro this way. Used the pre-crappy version of XPadder (now extra buggy since Win 7) to make it happen. Just used a 360 controller, lots of tweaking to get use out of the analog stick for mouse replacement if I just wanted to switch over for, like, the running around.

Not so much, World of Warcraft.

There just, like minimal support out there for this way of playing. As controller support started to get added for PC, so did conflicts where plugging one in overrode mouse control, etc. Half a controller is also not enough buttons for most games.

I wish there was also a combo kind of device possible, bit like the mythical Phantom lapboard but with a half-controller on the left you use to hold the board that you mouse upon with your right. Something that would let me sit in a comfy chair and play those PC games on the big TV.

That Hori device looks neat tho. EDIT: Ah, not real. Sad.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

haha, fuck.

Not every game will support this, beware. Some games switch between M+KB and controller mode based on which device you press buttons on. You might wanna get one of those keyboards with an analog:

That looks pretty sweet, but the button placement looks off and I don't think that stick looks like it would be in an optimal position for finite control. But I'd definitely give it a try before I write it off completely.

Not PC but like this?

If so I agree! That is how I played the shooter parts of Marlow Briggs lol! My logitech controller and mouse.

OMG yes. As long as it has buttons on the back for your fingers. Is there a PC version of this?

Wonder if you could get one of these working on PC nicely.

Bet it'd be almost perfect for that kind of set up.

Almost perfect, button placement for x and o would be awkward and there would need to be buttons on the back as well.

Honestly the new knuckles controller for the HTC Vive actually looks ideal to me if it had an analog stick.

 

[Tahnit]

Would a joycon plus mouse work? Would be probably easier to hold

omg. I wonder if you can make the computer think its an xbox 360 pad even without all the buttons.

 

[Garcia]

The wonder of an open platform.

Play what you want, how you want. If something doesn't work the way you want, change it.

<3 PC <3

 

[SmokedMeat]

There's been plenty of times where I'll play a game like GTA V with my Xbone controller, but reach over for the mouse to shoot enemies during a firefight.

It's awesome that you can use both together. That Move controller with a mouse would be excellent.

 

[VlaudTheImpaler]

Holy shit, gonna try this later. I hate wasd, screw wrist cramps.

Let me know what you think!

And to everyone else, it would be really helpful if you could post what games you know this works for.

If anyone has Titanfall 2, Overwatch, PUBG etc. and has a controller, if you could test it that would be great!

 

[Phrozenflame500]

This sounds like it would be completely disorientating if you had any prior muscle memory with a controller and/or a mouse.

Fuck I wanna try it now.

 

[SmokedMeat]

If anyone has Titanfall 2, Overwatch, PUBG etc. and has a controller, if you could test it that would be great!

Hmmm I'll have to try it with PUBG. That's one game I've been playing exclusively with M&K. But I'd imagine moving about and searching buildings might be a little smoother with a controller.

 

[7DollarHagane]

Hmmm I'll have to try it with PUBG. That's one game I've been playing exclusively with M&K. But I'd imagine moving about and searching buildings might be a little smoother with a controller.

The problem is some games flip "modes" when receiving input from the controller or input from the mouse or keyboard.

So you might get some weird dead spots or delays when using both simultaneously.

 

[Mechazawa]

I fucked around with a PS Move + Mouse combo a long time ago. It ultimately ended up not being worth it because there weren't enough buttons on the Move.

The problem with all these controllers is that you end up making all sorts of weird concessions for the comfort of an analog stick. With a Steam or Xbox controller, you have to prop a bulky controller with one hand, with a PS move you don't have enough buttons and had to fuck around with shitty DS3 PC drivers(this part might be better now with the Steam built in controller mapping) and if the Switch joycons are anything like the Pro Controller, the analog stick works like absolute shit on PC, etc. etc. etc.

And the biggest shitheap of it all is that a ton of games just straight up don't support Xinput + Mouse controls. So if you want to use a mouse, you'd have to map digital controls to an analog stick.

haha, fuck.

Not every game will support this, beware. Some games switch between M+KB and controller mode based on which device you press buttons on. You might wanna get one of those keyboards with an analog:

This thing is a pretty pointless recommendation since it will not actually give the OP an analog input. He'd have to bind WASD inputs to that thing since the "analog stick" is just a disc on top of a dpad.

(It also looks like the "analog stick" would be terrible to use. I have the Logitech G13 version of that gamepad, which has a more traditional analog stick, but it sucks too because the analog stick on that is placed in a terrible spot.)

 

[SScorpio]

This thing is a pretty pointless recommendation since it will not actually give the OP an analog input. He'd have to bind WASD inputs to that thing since the "analog stick" is just a disc on top of a dpad.

(It also looks like the "analog stick" would be terrible to use. I have the Logitech G13 version of that gamepad, which has a more traditional analog stick, but it sucks too because the analog stick on that is placed in a terrible spot.)

It sits right under where my thumb naturally rests, so it feels great to me. The stock stick does suck though, I bought a really cheap dual analog Logitech controller and swapped the sticks. It's more comfortable, and feels like a DS2/3 stick.

 

[ebullientprism]

Wouldnt a flightstick/joystick make more sense?

 

[Mechazawa]

It sits right under where my thumb naturally rests, so it feels great to me. The stock stick does suck though, I bought a really cheap dual analog Logitech controller and swapped the sticks. It's more comfortable, and feels like a DS2/3 stick.

I could never get used to the G13 stick positioning. The fact that it pointed straight up instead of curving to the right like the Razer gamepad made it basically unusable for me. Felt like I had to use the side of my thumb to control it.

 

[Z..]

Wonder if you could get one of these working on PC nicely.

Bet it'd be almost perfect for that kind of set up.

You can indeed. It's pretty efficient if you have a mouse with at least 6/7 buttons.

 

[AlexBasch]

That... actually sounds great.


I wouldn't ever play something competitive with it, but would love to give it a whirl. I never got used to KB/M and used a controller in most PC FPS games that I own.

 

[Z..]

Almost perfect, button placement for x and o would be awkward and there would need to be buttons on the back as well.

It has L1 and L2. Quite honestly, if the mouse has enough buttons you'll only use L1/2/3 and the stick itself, don't even bother with X and O. It's my preferred setup for FPS games on PC, definitely. Though quite honestly I don't play anything competitively.

 

[TheBowen]

Whatever makes you happy, Woolie.

This is such a great reference

10/10

Also hey whatever you prefer

 

[K.Jack]

Welcome to PC, where you can do whatever the fuck you want, if you can get it to work.

 

[LelouchZero]

I tried this a couple of months ago in the Overwatch practice range for a little bit and thought it was a really interesting control scheme, I found it to be really relaxing compared to using a keyboard for movement as I could relax my left hand which I use for movement.

Unfortunately the game would flicker between keyboard and controller prompts but it appeared to work very well. Besides some adjustments to the keybindings I feel it could be a very feasible control scheme for this game.
Edit: Providing no other issues arise.

 

[capylikesgames]

Yeah, I used to do this pre-Steam Controller. Now that's completely replaced all other input devices for me when playing games on PC, unless the game is 1) Really stubborn about working with/completely disables gamepad and mouse and 2) Is designed for a gamepad, then I grab a Dualshock 4. You'd be surprised at how close the trackpad gets to mouse precision when configured correctly. I even use it to play Overwatch online, without any noticeable struggle against mouse users.

 

[-Deimos]

I tried doing this but gave up after realizing most games won't support simultaneous controller and mouse control.

 

[dangeROSS]

Wonder if you could get one of these working on PC nicely.

Bet it'd be almost perfect for that kind of set up.

I periodically post some videos I made about using the PS Move Navigation controller on GAF when threads like this pop up. And it seems to happen every so often.

Here's a playlist with the Nav controller and some tips to get it working:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL58EC5DC92CAF2B6F

It works fairly well. I eventually moved onto using the Razer Nostromo as it was easier to have set up for longer periods of time without syncing as such. The Nostromo worked great for me transitioning into PC gaming and I loved it. However there are some issues with the Nostromo conflicting with Xbox controllers. The Nostromo has HID quirks that sometimes interfere with controllers in games. Even if the Nostromo is not plugged in. Which I had a very hard time figuring out that the Nostromo was causing the problems. So just be wary of that if you go that route. Currently I am mainly using the Steam controller and enjoying it quite a bit. Still having the occasional issues with steam overlay crashing. So it's not perfect but I do believe it is a step in the right direction for those looking to avoid using the keyboard for gaming.


I also messed around with the Microsoft Strategic Commander:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9qh5xuGtA4IDP6lNJjPiW9Adp2Ej-Jzk

The Razer Hydra:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9qh5xuGtA4LlWLFI3P9osdHMB9ZjSrYB


And hell even the Wii Balance Board:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9qh5xuGtA4JnLnPE7d8wTddkjgb3xle_

Options exist. But that ultimate device that can replace the keyboard for gaming is not quite here yet in my opinion. But hopefully soon.

 

[AerialAir]

Would a joycon plus mouse work? Would be probably easier to hold

My first thought after reading OP, sounds like a Joycon+M would be heaven for TC.

 

[joecanada]

Hey op I'm surprised you've never seen this mentioned before I've seen it brought up in threads before... I also tried it out but I guess I just don't care enough. Straight controller is fine for me

 

[FyreWulff]

this is why the Wii chuck plus mote combo was so great, people i knew that didn't like KBAM or the 2 stick setup instantly loved shooters after the Wii

 

[chrominance]

There was a GAF thread about this a few years back, and there you can see at least one controller specially made to replace the keyboard left-hand controls with an analog stick. It's an idea that shows up every now and then.

I think the main thing that prevents this from gaining traction, besides a sheer lack of purpose-built controllers, is that many games don't support both mouse and controller at the same time. But it feels like modern games are a lot better with this, and I wonder if Steam's controller remapping could maybe bridge the gap.

 

[Mr. Smiley]

Wonder if you could get one of these working on PC nicely.

Bet it'd be almost perfect for that kind of set up.

This is what I use. Nav controller plus programmable mouse feels great for games that support C+M. Though, for games that don't, mapping the stick to WASD feels bad, especially if analog movement is locked off.

You have to use Motionjoy though. You can use BetterDS3 to circumvent the adware.