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[hawk2025]

Just to be clear. Whether Russia tried isn't my point. It's that imo it wasn't a factor in ultimately winning Trump the presidency, and I see nothing that leads me to believe that Trump and co were in on it for the potential of future favors (ie. collusion) ... Based on that belief, I find this whole Russia thing to be your boilerplate pushback by the losing party that we've seen happen so many times (and sans Watergate, history shows nothing comes of any of these witchhunts in modern times) ... Fairly straightforward.

I obvs realize I am not in like-minded company here and my posts just give folks targets for their ignore lists, but even in light of that I feel compelled to present my feeling on the topic anyway. Healthy discourse and all that.

Your logic is utterly broken.


You start from feelings and then ignore facts to reach the conclusion you already had -- by your own admission.

It's not about being in "like-minded" company. It's about a complete failure of rational reasoning.

 

[Boylamite]

He's not saying they didn't do anything. He's saying he doesn't believe they did enough to alter the election enough.......which doesn't really matter anyway as far as the investigation goes anyway. That's determining if Trump and Russia colluded at all. Not if what Russia did actually made a big enough difference.

"In any tangible way" is a broad statement. And in light of everything we know, willfully ignorant.

 

[xxracerxx]

I don't believe it was a factor in Trump winning either - but that doesn't matter. For example consider the meeting where the Russian govt offered info on Hillary. Let's say that Trump's campaign accepted the info, but for whatever reason decided not to use it. In this example, Russia doesn't influence the election because the info was never made public - but the Trump camp still committed a felony.

Didn't Trump have a press conference right after Jr. emails promising more dirt on Clinton was coming soon? Or was that all hogwash?

 

[bootsthecat]

With all due respect, your opinion means slightly less than the intelligence community.

I've seen a few replies to this effect; I'm not discounting their findings. They said nothing of the Trump teams involvement, nor did they conclude that the election results were in fact affected. Simply that there was evidence they tried.

 

[bootsthecat]

Your logic is utterly broken.


You start from feelings and then ignore facts to reach the conclusion you already had -- by your own admission.

It's not about being in "like-minded" company. It's about a complete failure of rational reasoning.

You guys love to insult, It's unfortunate.

My rational reasoning is what leads me to believe what I do regarding this topic. Feel free to pick it apart, I suppose?

 

[Mr. X]

Just to be clear. Whether Russia tried isn't my point. It's that imo it wasn't a factor in ultimately winning Trump the presidency, and I see nothing that leads me to believe that Trump and co were in on it for the potential of future favors (ie. collusion) ... Based on that belief, I find this whole Russia thing to be your boilerplate pushback by the losing party that we've seen happen so many times (and sans Watergate, history shows nothing comes of any of these witchhunts in modern times) ... Fairly straightforward.

I obvs realize I am not in like-minded company here and my posts just give folks targets for their ignore lists, but even in light of that I feel compelled to present my feeling on the topic anyway. Healthy discourse and all that.

the losing party has no power in any branch of government currently. The IC, Deputy AG and Republican majority Congress are at work here.

 

[hawk2025]

You guys love to insult, It's unfortunate.

My rational reasoning is what leads me to believe what I do regarding this topic. Feel free to pick it apart, I suppose?

I'm not insulting, I'm simply not mincing words when facing a complete lack of logic. You've not presented rational reasoning -- you've started by begging the question and formed conclusions from there. It's absurd.

I'm not here to appease your feelings despite you molding your reality around them.

Let's not forget your first post in the thread while you backpedal into something resembling reason in this thread.

 

[TAJ]

I don't believe that Russia altered our election results in any tangible way, and that the Trump team was in on it in exchange for future favors (removal of sanctions, etc).

Are you trying to say that our election system is secure? It isn't.
A cybersecurity team just said they did test attacks on election systems and were able to both alter vote tallies and remain undetected in every state that they attacked. It was on NPR in the last couple days.

 

[Armaros]

I've seen a few replies to this effect; I'm not discounting their findings. They said nothing of the Trump teams involvement, nor did they conclude that the election results were in fact affected. Simply that there was evidence they tried.

So thats why the FBI and the special counsel has been investigating why just about all the top officials in the Trump campaign and administration have conveniently forgotten all their encounters with Russian Nationals working for or with connections to the Russian Government?

Be it while under oath or filling out disclosure forms required by law?

 

[Stinkles]

You guys love to insult, It's unfortunate.

My rational reasoning is what leads me to believe what I do regarding this topic. Feel free to pick it apart, I suppose?

You haven't done anything rational. You've reached a conclusion based on what appears to be stupefyingly limited understanding of any of the components of a highly complex case, and ignored the one highly simple aspect - which is that no political figure in history has been clouded by this much direct contact with Russian spies and kremlin linked Oligarchs, in the middle of an investigation about those very things.

And nobody's insulting you. They're attacking your ludicrous position.

At a granular level:

Kushner lied about multiple contacts with Russian operatives including a meeting that was almost literally titled "Let's meet with top Russian govt guys to collude with them"

 

[Boylamite]

I've seen a few replies to this effect; I'm not discounting their findings. They said nothing of the Trump teams involvement, nor did they conclude that the election results were in fact affected. Simply that there was evidence they tried.

There's been quite a lot of stories in the news lately about some kind of meeting... I believe an email too? I don't know, seemed important. But we're too busy asserting our conclusions to worry about stuff like that, right?

 

[pompidu]

You guys love to insult, It's unfortunate.

My rational reasoning is what leads me to believe what I do regarding this topic. Feel free to pick it apart, I suppose?

Do you even you even understand what the word 'insult' means? Because what was said in response wasn't insulting. Questioning your intelligence now.

 

[bootsthecat]

I'm not insulting, I'm simply not mincing words when facing a complete lack of logic. You've not presented rational reasoning -- you've started by begging the question and formed conclusions from there. It's absurd.

I'm not here to appease your feelings.

It's irrational to believe that there is nothing of substance regarding collusion by the Trump team in this Russia election tampering, even after months of investigation? Not sure I agree. We will see; I know what side of the fence I'm on for now.

 

[Boylamite]

It's irrational to believe that there is nothing of substance regarding collusion by the Trump team in this Russia election tampering, even after months of investigation? Not sure I agree. We will see; I know what side of the fence I'm on for now.

Yes it is.

 

[TAJ]

It's irrational to believe that there is nothing of substance regarding collusion by the Trump team in this Russia election tampering, even after months of investigation? Not sure I agree. We will see; I know what side of the fence I'm on for now.

Why do you think Mueller is still making major hires?

 

[KHarvey16]

It's irrational to believe that there is nothing of substance regarding collusion by the Trump team in this Russia election tampering, even after months of investigation? Not sure I agree. We will see; I know what side of the fence I'm on for now.

That's clearly irrational. How is the Trump Jr. email not "of substance," to name but one of many pieces of data.

 

[Steel]

It's irrational to believe that there is nothing of substance regarding collusion by the Trump team in this Russia election tampering, even after months of investigation? Not sure I agree. We will see; I know what side of the fence I'm on for now.

It took years before Watergate went through, you realize these things take time, right? It's not guaranteed to be something, but it's certainly not guaranteed to be nothing.

 

[rjinaz]

At this point if you don't believe any of the Russian/Trump connections that seem to be revealed almost daily, and find nothing wrong with this administration being caught constantly lying about said connections (because you know I guess lying is just fun so why not) , you have to be willfully ignoring reality.

 

[Zolo]

It's irrational to believe that there is nothing of substance regarding collusion by the Trump team in this Russia election tampering, even after months of investigation? Not sure I agree. We will see; I know what side of the fence I'm on for now.

So basically it's nothing except the:

-Flynn thing and
-the Manafort thing
-and the Tillerson thing
-and the Sessions thing
-and the Kushner thing
-and the Wray thing
-and the Morgan, Lewis, & Bockius “Russian Law Firm of the Year” thing
-and the Carter Page thing
-and the Roger Stone thing
-and the 198 Million voter records thing
-and the Felix Sater thing
-and the Boris Ephsteyn thing
-and the Rosneft thing
-and the Gazprom thing
-and the Sergey Gorkov banker thing
-and the Azerbajain thing
-and the “I love Putin” thing
-and the Donald Trump, Jr. thing
-and the Lavrov thing
-and the Sergey Kislyak thing
-and the Oval Office thing
-and the Gingrich/Kislyak phone calls thing
-and the Russian Business Interests thing
-and the Emoluments Clause thing
-and the Alex Schnaider thing
-and the hack of the DNC thing
-and the Guccifer 2.0 thing
-and the Mike Pence “I don’t know anything” thing
-and the Russians mysteriously dying thing
-and Trump’s public request to Russia to hack Hillary’s email thing
-and the Trump house sale for $100 million at the bottom of the housing bust to the Russian fertilizer king thing
-and the Russian fertilizer king’s plane showing up in Concord, NC during Trump rally campaign thing
-and the Nunes sudden flight to the White House in the night thing
-and the Nunes personal investments in the Russian winery thing
-and the Cyprus bank thing
-and Trump not releasing his tax returns thing
-and the Republican Party’s rejection of an amendment to require Trump to show his taxes thing
-and the election hacking thing
-and the GOP platform change to the Ukraine thing
-and the Steele Dossier thing
-and the Sally Yates can’t testify thing
-and the intelligence community’s investigative reports thing
-and the Trump reassurance that the Russian connection is all “fake news” thing
-and the Chaffetz not willing to start an investigation thing
-and the Chaffetz suddenly deciding to go back to private life in the middle of an investigation thing
-and the appointment of Pam Bondi who was bribed by Trump in the Trump University scandal appointed to head the investigation thing
-and the The White House going into full-on cover-up mode, refusing to turn over the documents related to the hiring and subsequent firing of Flynn thing
-and the Chaffetz and White House blaming the poor vetting of Flynn on Obama thing
-and the Poland and British intelligence gave information regarding the hacking back in 2015 to Paul Ryan and he didn't do anything thing
-and the Agent M16 following the money thing
-and the Trump team KNEW about Flynn's involvement but hired him anyway thing
-and the let’s fire Comey thing
-and the Mueller let’s fire him too thing
-and the Election night Russian trademark gifts thing
-and the Russian diplomatic compound electronic equipment destruction thing
-and the let’s give back the diplomatic compounds back to the Russians thing
-and the let’s back away from Cuba thing
-and now donny Jr met with Russians thing
-and the lies that the meeting didn't happen, transforming into an eight person meeting

 

[Armaros]

It took years before Watergate went through, you realize these things take time, right? It's not guaranteed to be something, but it's certainly not guaranteed to be nothing.

We also know much much much more right now then the Watergate scandal at the same time

 

[x24hrs2livex]

Just to be clear. Whether Russia tried isn't my point. It's that imo it wasn't a factor in ultimately winning Trump the presidency, and I see nothing that leads me to believe that Trump and co were in on it for the potential of future favors (ie. collusion) ... Based on that belief, I find this whole Russia thing to be your boilerplate pushback by the losing party that we've seen happen so many times (and sans Watergate, history shows nothing comes of any of these witchhunts in modern times) ... Fairly straightforward.

I obvs realize I am not in like-minded company here and my posts just give folks targets for their ignore lists, but even in light of that I feel compelled to present my feeling on the topic anyway. Healthy discourse and all that.

Don Jr. Emails
Paul Manafort
Jared Kushner consistent lying
Sessions forgetting his meeting Kisylak
Flynn being fired

All of that is just made up to you?

 

[GoldenEye 007]

It's irrational to believe that there is nothing of substance regarding collusion by the Trump team in this Russia election tampering, even after months of investigation? Not sure I agree. We will see; I know what side of the fence I'm on for now.

Investigations can take years. So yeah it's illogical to think that just because an investigation is taking a long time, nothing is there.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

Just to be clear. Whether Russia tried isn't my point. It's that imo it wasn't a factor in ultimately winning Trump the presidency, and I see nothing that leads me to believe that Trump and co were in on it for the potential of future favors (ie. collusion) ... Based on that belief, I find this whole Russia thing to be your boilerplate pushback by the losing party that we've seen happen so many times (and sans Watergate, history shows nothing comes of any of these witchhunts in modern times) ... Fairly straightforward.

I obvs realize I am not in like-minded company here and my posts just give folks targets for their ignore lists, but even in light of that I feel compelled to present my feeling on the topic anyway. Healthy discourse and all that.

Can you name the "pushback" on this massive scale that involved every IC on every level for this long from the opposing losing party during the Bush era? How about the Obama era? Also these investigations are occurring independent of the "losing party".

So basically it's nothing except the:

-Flynn thing and
-the Manafort thing
-and the Tillerson thing
-and the Sessions thing
-and the Kushner thing
-and the Wray thing
-and the Morgan, Lewis, & Bockius "Russian Law Firm of the Year" thing
-and the Carter Page thing
-and the Roger Stone thing
-and the 198 Million voter records thing
-and the Felix Sater thing
-and the Boris Ephsteyn thing
-and the Rosneft thing
-and the Gazprom thing
-and the Sergey Gorkov banker thing
-and the Azerbajain thing
-and the "I love Putin" thing
-and the Donald Trump, Jr. thing
-and the Lavrov thing
-and the Sergey Kislyak thing
-and the Oval Office thing
-and the Gingrich/Kislyak phone calls thing
-and the Russian Business Interests thing
-and the Emoluments Clause thing
-and the Alex Schnaider thing
-and the hack of the DNC thing
-and the Guccifer 2.0 thing
-and the Mike Pence "I don't know anything" thing
-and the Russians mysteriously dying thing
-and Trump's public request to Russia to hack Hillary's email thing
-and the Trump house sale for $100 million at the bottom of the housing bust to the Russian fertilizer king thing
-and the Russian fertilizer king's plane showing up in Concord, NC during Trump rally campaign thing
-and the Nunes sudden flight to the White House in the night thing
-and the Nunes personal investments in the Russian winery thing
-and the Cyprus bank thing
-and Trump not releasing his tax returns thing
-and the Republican Party's rejection of an amendment to require Trump to show his taxes thing
-and the election hacking thing
-and the GOP platform change to the Ukraine thing
-and the Steele Dossier thing
-and the Sally Yates can't testify thing
-and the intelligence community's investigative reports thing
-and the Trump reassurance that the Russian connection is all "fake news" thing
-and the Chaffetz not willing to start an investigation thing
-and the Chaffetz suddenly deciding to go back to private life in the middle of an investigation thing
-and the appointment of Pam Bondi who was bribed by Trump in the Trump University scandal appointed to head the investigation thing
-and the The White House going into full-on cover-up mode, refusing to turn over the documents related to the hiring and subsequent firing of Flynn thing
-and the Chaffetz and White House blaming the poor vetting of Flynn on Obama thing
-and the Poland and British intelligence gave information regarding the hacking back in 2015 to Paul Ryan and he didn't do anything thing
-and the Agent M16 following the money thing
-and the Trump team KNEW about Flynn's involvement but hired him anyway thing
-and the let's fire Comey thing
-and the Mueller let's fire him too thing
-and the Election night Russian trademark gifts thing
-and the Russian diplomatic compound electronic equipment destruction thing
-and the let's give back the diplomatic compounds back to the Russians thing
-and the let's back away from Cuba thing
-and now donny Jr met with Russians thing
-and the lies that the meeting didn't happen, transforming into an eight person meeting

This is the most filling nothing burger I've ever had!

 

[hitme]

So basically it's nothing except the:

 

[theWB27]

Basically Boots is using the age old tactic of ignoring connections to form their own picture.

If everything is a big coincidence then nothing can truly be connected.

 

[xxracerxx]

So basically it's nothing except the:

[Amazing list]

 

[Surfinn]

So basically it's nothing except the:

Snip

I uh

Fake news

 

[Fancyarcher]

It's irrational to believe that there is nothing of substance regarding collusion by the Trump team in this Russia election tampering, even after months of investigation? Not sure I agree. We will see; I know what side of the fence I'm on for now.

And yet all of the evidence seems to suggest otherwise.

 

[Hoodbury]

So basically it's nothing except the:

List of all Lists

Heh, did you just type that up for this thread or did you copy it from somewhere? Impressive list Trump has going for him.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

So basically it's nothing except the:

You're looking at it the wrong way silly!

See? There's nothing! Just a little pushback!

 

[Zolo]

Heh, did you just type that up for this thread or did you copy it from somewhere? Impressive list Trump has going for him.

It's a list I've seen making the rounds on the internet. I scanned through it, and it seems like one of the better lists showing what's happened.

 

[Tacitus_]

What the heck do the dark blue states even do?

Fail at being relevant? I dunno, it's from a manga from before the USSR fell. I don't think the author put much thought into it. I'm just amused by the Russia love coming from the States.

 

[Tyraniboah]

How many times does a bird have to walk like a duck, float like a duck, and quack like a duck before we start calling it a duck? This shit is getting ridiculous

 

[Dai101]

So basically it's nothing except the:

SHIT

SON

That's a lot of nothing. Hmm....

 

[SwiftDeath]

Where will we be in 2 weeks?

The Fractured States of Soviet America.

The USSA?

I now feel like the satirical nature of the Beatles Back in the USSR has taken on a whole new meaning

 

[avaya]

Under anti-money laundering laws, claiming you didn't know or not caring where funds came from gets you hard jail time. It is incumbent on you to prove you went through the proper vetting and checks. When that fails it is a requirement to report immediately.

Him not caring where funds came from is equivalent to him laundering the money himself.

 

[jelly]

How many times does a bird have to walk like a duck, float like a duck, and quack like a duck before we start calling it a duck? This shit is getting ridiculous

When they start losing money and votes.

 

[BlazinSkatinAxel]

RESEARCH!!!

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Basically my opinion as of now is that the entire Russia thing is Lewinsky-level BS. I don't believe that Russia altered our election results in any tangible way, and that the Trump team was in on it in exchange for future favors (removal of sanctions, etc). As such, this is just more going down the rabbit hole of nothing.

Some of the story is interesting, with Kushner purchasing the property from Lev and subsequent re-financing from Deutche Bank that supposedly had ties with the laundering operation, but that shit happened well before Trump was running.

I just don't buy the whole thing, so of course I'm skeptical about this.

Imagine that Trump also owned casinos

 

[O_Atoll]

Trump just wants good relations with Russia. We all should be for that.

Maybe if they didn't hack us. Friends with the country that hack your election? Sad.

 

[Jisgsaw]

It's irrational to believe that there is nothing of substance regarding collusion by the Trump team in this Russia election tampering, even after months of investigation? Not sure I agree. We will see; I know what side of the fence I'm on for now.

You did follow that Trump J. released a copy of an email that I'll sum up in "Hey, you want some dirt on Hillary? Cheers, your friend Russia", and admitted to take the meeting proposed in said email, right?

I mean, how can you seriously say there was no colusion, when the Trump team themselves admitted there was collusion (but don't worry, it wasn't a big deal)?

 

[CarlisleDavid1979]

No collusion though.

 

[tanooki27]

Basically my opinion as of now is that the entire Russia thing is Lewinsky-level BS. I don't believe that Russia altered our election results in any tangible way, and that the Trump team was in on it in exchange for future favors (removal of sanctions, etc). As such, this is just more going down the rabbit hole of nothing.

Some of the story is interesting, with Kushner purchasing the property from Lev and subsequent re-financing from Deutche Bank that supposedly had ties with the laundering operation, but that shit happened well before Trump was running.

I just don't buy the whole thing, so of course I'm skeptical about this.

so you don't accept the facts as laid out by every US intelligence agency? why?

russia fucked with our election. do you really believe that's not worth investigating? that's what Mueller's doing.

throw partisanship out the window. this is important stuff.

 

[Dr.Acula]

Under anti-money laundering laws, claiming you didn't know or not caring where funds came from gets you hard jail time. It is incumbent on you to prove you went through the proper vetting and checks. When that fails it is a requirement to report immediately.

Him not caring where funds came from is equivalent to him laundering the money himself.

Bu bu but he's a good kid, and he's new at this.

 

[polyh3dron]

This nothingburger has a lot of somethings in it.

 

[Lundren]

You guys love to insult, It's unfortunate.

My rational reasoning is what leads me to believe what I do regarding this topic. Feel free to pick it apart, I suppose?

First you try some coded both sides bullshit.

Then you go for the GAF hivemind bullshit.

Now you're upset that people are being mean to you. While ignoring all points you can't dispute with more than "I believe..."

What's your endgame here?

 

[CazTGG]

You guys love to insult, It's unfortunate.

My rational reasoning is what leads me to believe what I do regarding this topic. Feel free to pick it apart, I suppose?

Keep telling yourself that.

 

[kris.]

So basically it's nothing except the:

So many nothing burgers where do the librul elites get these wild ideas

 

[Imperfected]

Russia (or possibly Israel?) GAF, am I right in assuming that Lev Leviev is just the douchiest fucking name around?

 

[O_Atoll]

I don't know why some people choose to believe another country over their own Intelligence community. I can't understand keeping an open mind but damn.