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[MaulerX]

There aren't conflicting ideas. You CAN go fast in Sonic, YES. But if there are OBSTACLES, you should go SLOW to pass them.
In Mario you CAN go fast. But when there are OBSTACLES, you should go SLOW to pass them.
In Rayman you CAN go fast. But when there are OBSTACLES, you should go SLOW to pass them.
In ..... you CAN go fast. But when there are OBSTACLES, you should go SLOW to pass them.


How is it hard, like the game can be played through by 5 year olds.

Exactly.


Personally that's why I love Sonic and why I feel like there's a lot of replay value.

Yes, you can go as fast as you want (in certain levels) and yet get rewarded by slowing down and exploring the levels to get power-ups etc... But there are certain levels that require more finesse and simply can't be beat if you try to zip by them. That's what makes Sonic great to me.

 

[jman2050]

Sonic mania getting great reviews makes this thread hilarious

Obstinacy is a powerful force.

Sega's marketing team from 1991 must be true geniuses, their marketing is fooling delusional fanboys and critics even 26 years later!

 

[schandmann]

I didn't have a Genesis (or Mega Drive for us Euro folks) in the house growing up and always felt like I was missing out on Sonic games.

Later I tried (and I mean really tried) to get into classic Sonic and utterly failed to enjoy myself for the exact reasons OP mentions. Those games are shitty teachers.

Gameplay feels conflicted: Sonic's momentum physics are too sluggish for careful exploration while Gotta Go Fast Gameplay feels a bit too hectic and punishing to be fun for me. I'd say I'm pretty good at platfomers and I did finish Sonic 2, but it was a middling experience.

Happy to hear I'm not alone with this. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes, but the people shitposting about how they "knew how to play Sonic" when they were little probably had a huge amount of kid patience to help them on their way. As someone who first tried Sonic in his late teens I don't know if it's worth it.

I actually think the Sonic Advance games, while not great, have much tighter controls and better gameplay.

 

[dock]

When I have a crappy time playing Sonic CD and Freedom Planet, I imagine this must be what Sonic 2 feels like for some people.

 

[LegendofLex]

But based on what the game has taught me personally, I wouldn't trust ever going fast. I wouldn't trust boosters and bumpers and springs. I would go as slow and methodically as possible, and I wouldn't have any fun as a result.

Honestly, this was how Mario games started off for me. I'd always play cautiously, and as a result the games felt slow and plodding. After a while you get your confidence and learn to react to obstacles (either avoiding them entirely or recovering if they catch you off guard) and the game becomes less of a slog and you can experiment more with different strategies and more daring runs.

Spoiler

Sonic CD is the one classic Sonic game that feels completely unintuitive to me

.

 

[The Albatross]

The objective is getting to the end of the level. Rings are typically waypoints and indicators of different paths, as well as the primary method of unlocking bonus stages. Levels have many different branching paths to take to get to the end of levels. You can, but shouldn't necessarily play a Sonic game like you would play a Mario game. Mario is more of a straight platformer, Sonic is a combination of platformer and a sort of physics-based free running game. Sonic is to Mario like how SSX is to Coolboarders (or 1080 Snowboarding), they're both snowboarding games, but the objective is different.

If you're a completionist (like if you play the Mario games to get all of the stars or special coins, etc), you should aim to finish every level and get the chaos emeralds that are locked in each level. I don't know if Sonic Mania has this, but Sonic 1, 2, and 3/K do.

Essentially, the chaos emeralds in each sonic are special emeralds that are typically locked away in secret bonus stages that are hidden in each level. The way you get to these zones differs in each sonic. In Sonic 1, they're these rotating mazes, you get to them by collecting at least 50 rings and then at the end of the level there will be a large gold ring that you can jump into which takes you to the bonus stage. In Sonic 2, you get to the bonus stages by having 50 rings and crossing a checkpoint and then jumping into the star portal that the checkpoint creates -- these are the 3D race stages in Sonic 2. In Sonic 3 I kind of forget, but I think that there are enormous rings that you discover and jump into, and it gives you the 3D sphere maze.

Collecting all of the emeralds unlocks a version of super sonic and gives you the proper ending, as Dr. Robotnik/Eggman does not have any emeralds left.

Good sonic games have a good diversity of levels. You have your racing levels that it's tough to fail in and encourage you to find branching paths, like Green Hill or Emerald Hill Zone, then your platforming levels like Labrynth Zone in Sonic 1, then your pinball levels like Casino Night Zone in Sonic 2, a mental Maze level like the one set in the pyramid in Sonic 3. As the game goes on, each level tends to include areas and components of these themes. Think of these sort of like the pacing of any game... Race segments are more relaxed, it's difficult to fail, they're like ring rushes and they typically break up challenging spots of platforming or enemies.

 

[QisTopTier]

Your first time through the game typically is about exploring figuring out how to get the emeralds

Your later play throughs now that you know optimal paths and enemy placements are about speed and getting all the emeralds and beating the game as fast and efficiently as possible

 

[Nepenthe]

Honestly was ignorant to this. I liked the old games a lot, and picked up Generations as saw the reception was good but haven't really been in the Sonic community at any point.

Fair enough if that's the case, though don't think people should be dogpiling the OP quite to the extent they are. Doesn't help when you're trying to get into Sonic to have all the fans call you an idiot.

Consider yourself lucky that you've missed a decade of people- mostly children- being called anything and everything up to and including autistic over the games Sonic Team made in the mid 2000s, something completely out of our control. I mean, just look at the "The games were never good" and deviantART shitposts; Sonic is one of the few remaining arenas where you can be an outright ass without getting called out. That's making the questions of "why are you guys so defensive?" that much more disingenuous and annoying. I mean, my apologies to OP that the topic has become a shitpile, but I think people should be aware that non-fans aren't owed the benefit of the doubt when historical context is taken into consideration. For Sonic fans, the question is a typical dog whistle to instigate more shit-talking.

 

[The Xtortionist]

As a longtime 2D Sonic skeptic, I'm definitely warming up to its design with Mania.

The levels feel like a series of playgrounds that individually lend themselves to light exploration, and these playgrounds are linked by "pinball sequences" — bits where you're propelled along by bumpers and spinners and tubes and loops.

The playground areas feel like sandbox-style levels from a 3D platformer, translated to 2D — so a mix of tight and wide open spaces, upper and lower levels, and areas to backtrack with goodies hidden in nooks and crannies. (I know that 2D Sonic design obviously predated 3D games, but I'm just describing how it feels with the hindsight of history.)

Sometimes the way forward to a pinball sequence is not left to right, but right to left. And these sequences may launch you past (or over, or under) large swathes of the playground areas. But you can backtrack to try and find what you miss, or simply continue forward in the interest of speed, and simply resolve to explore those alternate paths on a subsequent playthrough.

It feels a bit disconcerting to a long-time 2D Mario player because I'm accustomed to being able to find everything in a single run (i.e. three star coins), and also because in Mario it's much easier to comprehend how the level fits together, whereas I'd be hard-pressed to map out Green Hill Zone even after playing it a dozen times. But that's OK. You just have to let yourself "go with the flow" and accept that you won't see everything in each level the first, or second, or third, or even fourth time. You just kind of follow your intuition and find what you can each playthrough.

Structurally, Sonic is designed fundamentally differently than most other platformers, and needs to be considered as such to appreciate it imo. A fundamental difference between Sonic and Mario (and even DKC) is that Sonic is designed as more of a replayable arcade-style experience. In Mario games you can take days or weeks to work your way through the game, slowly mastering each level one at a time by finding all of the secrets. And that's necessary, as Mario games are generally much longer than Sonic games.

Sonic takes a different approach. There are far fewer levels than in a typical Mario game, but each level is considerably more dense in a way that can make even your fifth, or hell, tenth playthrough of the game different depending on the paths taken. Sonic also funnels you from zone to zone with no world map in-between, which doesn't even allow you the immediate option of going back for secrets - a design choice that I really appreciate, as it avoids the "good stopping point" element of being thrown back into a world map in favor of constant forward momentum. Collectables (chaos emeralds) are completely missable, and while Mania replenishes special stage rings after clearing the game, the emeralds are completely missable up to that point - fail too many and you'll simply miss out, which pushes the player to start successive runs with increasing knowledge. Each Sonic level also contains unique environments and music for every zone, which further helps with replayability imo. In a given run of the game you're not going to see the same level trope more than once.

It's just a different experience. But with the right mindset I think it can be highly enjoyable.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

I repeat. Sonic Mania has just put you Sonic was never good shitposters in your place. You lost. You have been proven wrong. Why. Are. You. Still. Here?

Look, you've got a legit mediocre Sonic game coming out in a few months. Can you not just go crawl in a hole, lick your wounds for now and come back for that?

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Honestly, this was how Mario games started off for me. I'd always play cautiously, and as a result the games felt slow and plodding. After a while you get your confidence and learn to react to obstacles (either avoiding them entirely or recovering if they catch you off guard) and the game becomes less of a slog and you can experiment more with different strategies and more daring runs.

Spoiler

Sonic CD is the one classic Sonic game that feels completely unintuitive to me

.

This is me with every platformer ever lol. I just feel extra weird about it with sonic because he has that ability to move so fast that I feel like I'm doing something wrong.

The 3D ones I feel like I ever rarely slow down

I repeat. Sonic Mania has just put you Sonic was never good shitposters in your place. You lost. You have been proven wrong. Why. Are. You. Still. Here?

Look, you've got a legit mediocre Sonic game coming out in a few months. Can you not just go crawl in a hole, lick your wounds for now and come back for that?

Are you ok

 

[Glass Shark]

I think the Rings are another really fundamental part of Sonic that just doesn’t work for me. I’m not sure why, but if I get hit in Sonic and lose my Rings, I feel totally dejected and it just takes all the wind out of my sails. When I get hit in Mario and become little, my mind says, “don’t worry, it’s not over.” I honestly do not understand the dichotomy in my own mind on this because they are essentially the same thing: you made a mistake, but you’re still alive and have a second chance. But in Sonic it feels so much worse for me.

Anyone else relate?

I repeat. Sonic Mania has just put you Sonic was never good shitposters in your place. You lost. You have been proven wrong. Why. Are. You. Still. Here?

Look, you've got a legit mediocre Sonic game coming out in a few months. Can you not just go crawl in a hole, lick your wounds for now and come back for that?

Is this a shtick?

 

[evilromero]

I never would have guessed that Mania would be the game that would expose the current climate of gameplay expectations. In other words, the expectation that a platform game with multiple paths (or rather just open levels) to the goal would present a problem with modern games weened on mobile and indie platform games that are more reliant on linear levels built around gimmicks. But it makes sense and I can now see why Sega felt so confident that they have the market pegged with titles like Sonic Forces. It's a game that delivers on the superficial premise and expectation that fast thing go fast all the time. While Mania took a leap of faith that a traditional Sonic platformer with modern flourishes would garner the same broad appeal.

Nah, Sega knew. They've done the market research and they know that modern gamers interactions with games is very different now.

 

[gelf]

As a longtime 2D Sonic skeptic, I'm definitely warming up to its design with Mania.

The levels feel like a series of playgrounds that individually lend themselves to light exploration, and these playgrounds are linked by "pinball sequences" — bits where you're propelled along by bumpers and spinners and tubes and loops.

The playground areas feel like sandbox-style levels from a 3D platformer, translated to 2D — so a mix of tight and wide open spaces, upper and lower levels, and areas to backtrack with goodies hidden in nooks and crannies. (I know that 2D Sonic design obviously predated 3D games, but I'm just describing how it feels with the hindsight of history.)

Sometimes the way forward to a pinball sequence is not left to right, but right to left. And these sequences may launch you past (or over, or under) large swathes of the playground areas. But you can backtrack to try and find what you miss, or simply continue forward in the interest of speed, and simply resolve to explore those alternate paths on a subsequent playthrough.

It feels a bit disconcerting to a long-time 2D Mario player because I'm accustomed to being able to find everything in a single run (i.e. three star coins), and also because in Mario it's much easier to comprehend how the level fits together, whereas I'd be hard-pressed to map out Green Hill Zone even after playing it a dozen times. But that's OK. You just have to let yourself "go with the flow" and accept that you won't see everything in each level the first, or second, or third, or even fourth time. You just kind of follow your intuition and find what you can each playthrough.

As a long time 2D Sonic fan I feel this post covers the appeal well.

I actually struggle to enjoy other platformers that also try to inject speed into the gameplay as usually it's done in a more linear and safe fashion without the large playground style levels that Sonic contains.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Consider yourself lucky that you've missed a decade of people- mostly children- being called anything and everything up to and including autistic over the games Sonic Team made in the mid 2000s, something completely out of our control. I mean, just look at the "The games were never good" and deviantART shitposts; Sonic is one of the few remaining arenas where you can be an outright ass without getting called out. That's making the questions of "why are you guys so defensive?" that much more disingenuous and annoying. I mean, my apologies to OP that the topic has become a shitpile, but I think people should be aware that non-fans aren't owed the benefit of the doubt when historical context is taken into consideration. For Sonic fans, the question is a typical dog whistle to instigate more shit-talking.

I do, and thanks for breaking it down as it gives a lot of context to this thread as a whole.

 

[FinalAres]

I

Gameplay feels conflicted: Sonic's momentum physics are too sluggish for careful exploration while Gotta Go Fast Gameplay feels a bit too hectic and punishing to be fun for me.

What's weird is you're only trying to play the two extremes. It sounds to me, and I may be wrong, but it sounds to me that you're trying to play it like Mario and failing that you're playing fast because you imagine that's how it should be played.

If that is the case that's not your fault, but it's also not the fault of the game. Playing Sonic is something that most feel is super natural, but if you're particularly used to another style of gameplay, of course it won't fit.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

I think the Rings are another really fundamental part of Sonic that just doesn’t work for me. I’m not sure why, but if I get hit in Sonic and lose my Rings, I feel totally dejected and it just takes all the wind out of my sails. When I get hit in Mario and become little, my mind says, “don’t worry, it’s not over.” I honestly do not understand the dichotomy in my own mind on this because they are essentially the same thing: you made a mistake, but you’re still alive and have a second chance. But in Sonic it feels so much worse for me.

Anyone else relate?


Is this a shtick?

I think with sonic and Mario for some levels as well, those rings are a bit more important than a mushroom. I need those rings for the chaos emerald(well at least for the few 2ds I played)

 

[Professor Beef]

Did Sonic X ruin all classic Sonic discourse?

Pretty much. I can't think of any marketing that had "gotta go fast" for the older games, or even the newer ones.

 

[fredrancour]

When I was little and tried to branch out from sonic adventures to the 2d games, I kind of bounced off them too. It was clear that there were zany paths to zip along if I got good, but the exploration wasn't hooking me. The medium-paced level clearing I stumbled into naturally wasn't fun enough to keep me coming back.

So what I'm saying, op, is that if you're not having fun it's OK to not play it? It's a set of game systems to play around with and it's OK if they didn't hook you. You're not missing dark secrets.

 

[GRIMREEFZ]

the goal is to make it to the end of the stage in less than ten minutes. whatever else you do is up to you.

EXACTLY! I don't understand the misunderstanding. I cant wait to get off and play this tonight on my Switch. GOTOGOFAST

 

[Jeronimo Jones]

I see we're to the point of the carefully layered treatise on Sonic-game design, from the OP that started with questions like "what do the rings do" and "should I get all the items, or not all the items." It's fine to not like what's in the games, and if you wanted a thread to criticize issues you still feel are still present in Mania (and in spite of the universal acclaim from the reviews), that's cool. What you did for the thread isn't on-the-level, though.

I have to agree with you. OP presented themself as someone confused about basic gameplay elements but now appears to have had more knowledge about the series than they let on initially.

 

[Z3M0G]

Yep, much worse gameplay and design than Mario games. But...gotta go fast!

But... do ya really?

 

[FairFriend]

At least with regards to the good Sonic games:



Its down to preference. Rings give you a safety net for damage, grant extra lives and enable access to special stages. Its completely up to you if you want them or not.



Its down to preference. If you like going fast, go fast. If you want to go less fast, then go less fast and explore. There is no right way.



Its down to preference. If you want to build up speed then do so, but its up to you.



Its down to preference. You can seek them all out for various powerups. You can kill enemies for points. You don't have to though.



Its down to preference. Giant rings are hidden in levels and grant access to special stages. They are optional and its up to you if you want to pursue them.

In short, the games (at least the good ones) are designed in a way that allows you to play them in the way to prefer to. I personally, for example, forego most of the speed stuff to explore. Its completely up to you though.

Yeah, this is what is really great about the original Sonic games, they really don't force a playstyle on you. Instead they make you discover the one that fits you the most.

 

[Merc_]

lmao at this thread. I'm enjoying that fact that children apparently have a better grasp on how to play a Sonic game then legit adults on GAF.

This is quite the length to go to in order to shit on the franchise.

 

[Gartooth]

I can't tell if OP is genuine (hard to believe if you are on a hardcore gaming forum) or if this is just a call out about the design of Sonic games. 2D Sonic is a 1 button game and built to be replayable and at your own pace. It's like one of the most simplistic games to understand out there with the only learning curve being the pinball physics.

 

[LegendofLex]

This is me with every platformer ever lol. I just feel extra weird about it with sonic because he has that ability to move so fast that I feel like I'm doing something wrong.

The 3D ones I feel like I ever rarely slow down

Yeah, the game gives you lots of tools for going fast, but it also expects you to be judicious about how you use them (or skilled enough to just blow through the level).

People like to focus on how Sonic is billed as this super fast character, but the other iconic thing about Sonic games is that they have often unnatural-looking worlds with super out-there level geometry. Sonic games are about reading the level geometry to decide which skills to use, one of which is Sonic's trademark speed.

 

[MugiwaraCole]

I think the Rings are another really fundamental part of Sonic that just doesn’t work for me. I’m not sure why, but if I get hit in Sonic and lose my Rings, I feel totally dejected and it just takes all the wind out of my sails. When I get hit in Mario and become little, my mind says, “don’t worry, it’s not over.” I honestly do not understand the dichotomy in my own mind on this because they are essentially the same thing: you made a mistake, but you’re still alive and have a second chance. But in Sonic it feels so much worse for me.

Anyone else relate?


Is this a shtick?

Yeah, I'm not sure why either.

Like, that doesn't make any sense. You should have the same feeling on both occasions. Your run isn't over just because you got hit. Collect some of the rings you lost and continue on.

I can understand it feeling worse in Sonic because it slows you down, which you probably don't really want to do, but you don't want to lose your power ups either in Mario. I feel the same amount of pressure when I'm a powered up Mario as I do when I've got 93 rings and a bunch of obstacles are coming up.

 

[Telephone Man]

You feeling the need to defend the game through multiple posts in the thread is defensive, even if you can't admit it to yourself for some reason.

No, he's right. Declaring Sonic was always bad is especially funny now.

 

[Steve McQueen]

I repeat. Sonic Mania has just put you Sonic was never good shitposters in your place. You lost. You have been proven wrong. Why. Are. You. Still. Here?

Look, you've got a legit mediocre Sonic game coming out in a few months. Can you not just go crawl in a hole, lick your wounds for now and come back for that?

Holy shit. I love Sonic and it's fantastic that it got stellar reviews, but your reply ....damn.

 

[ezodagrom]

My experience with Sonic games.

- First playthrough, I stumble accross the stages, get hit here and there, die once in a while, but still manage to complete the games (as long as the game has a saving feature of course).

- I start replaying stages, I focus on trying to not get hit while also checking different paths, and as I get better at not getting hit and as I learn the stages, I start being able to get to the end of stages more quickly.

And that's about it I guess. I believe Sonic games are all about replayability and mastering the stages, not just the 2D games, but for the 3D ones as well.
Despite some of its issues, Sonic Adventure 2 did a good job on encouraging players to replay the stages with its letter based ranking system.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

No, he's right. Declaring Sonic was always bad is especially funny now.

I agree, I never took the stance that Sonic was bad. I was just saying that coming into a thread and making posts defending a position is the definition of defensive.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Holy shit. I love Sonic and it's fantastic that it got stellar reviews, but your reply ....damn.

I don't understand the post really, defended the franchise than shat on the next game coming up?
Sonic forces looks goo to me gonna be playing both

 

[digitalrelic]

I have to agree with you. OP presented themself as someone confused about basic gameplay elements but now appears to have had more knowledge about the series than they let on initially.

I didn't "let on" anything. I said that I had no idea how to play Sonic. That's absolutely the truth and it's the reason I created this thread. If anything my elaboration of the source of my confusion throughout this thread should be illuminating as to why I was confused.

With that said, as I stated a few posts ago, the explanations from people here on the best way to approach the game were helpful, and I'll be picking Sonic Mania up tonight on Switch. Excited to play.

 

[NotLiquid]

There are so many examples of well done gotta go fast levels in other platformers(rayman games for example), Sonic should learn from them.

Not sure Sonic needs to learn... anything from Rayman. Except maybe foregoing lives. Sonic's level design is built on adhering to Sonic's ability to roll and adopting pinball physics to achieve momentum in a way that protects the player from incoming obstacles. It was a proven, smart concept, and it works just fine. It's what makes it unique.

Rayman has fast running but a majority of the games' level design and gimmicks aren't built around the concept of momentum as an obstacle solver. It's a completely different kind of game.

 

[Chris R]

I'm pretty sure you go fast, make sure you have one ring at all times to survive and head to screen right until the stage is over (unless it's one of those 3D bonus stages)

Hoping the current good Sonic game means I get a Sonic Spinball Mania in a years time.

 

[Snazzy]

Woah boy, here comes a series of my opinions that some people might disagree with!

I was fortunate enough to grow up in a household with both a SNES and a Genesis. There is a distinct stylistic difference between first party Sega and Nintendo titles of that era that I can only quantify as "post-arcade" and "proto-modern". Sega often approached game design with the arcade in mind. Quick sessions with score boards designed to breed competition and eat quarters. Sonic 1 has a lot these arcade conventions in it's DNA. The timer, the score, the 1 button controls, etc. Speed was a measure of how good you became at navigating these levels. The joy for me came in memorizing all the routes and being able to seemlessly travel through entire levels without stopping, but it took lots of practice to do so. It turns what is essentially just a few hours of content into a highly replayable arcade-like experience.

As we got sequels, 2, CD, 3 & knuckles, more emphasis was placed on story, larger levels, more varied power ups, and mini-games. But at it's core a traditional 2D sonic title has it's heart in the arcade.

Nintendo titles were more proto-modern in the sense that they began to chase cinematic experiences (Zelda lttp, super Metroid) and long style play mechanics. The Mario and Kirby series' seemed to cater to the whole family, while Sega was chasing the teens and young adults who grew up with the NES and SMS. This affected the marketing, thus warping perceptions of Nintendo games as being "kiddy" and Sega games as being "extreme". Many allowed bad marketing to deprive themselves of great games from both systems.

So I feel sorry for those of you who fell prey to shitty marketing gimmicks, and I would like to welcome you guys to embrace Sega's arcade roots. I hope that there is a nugget of fun you can find.

 

[MugiwaraCole]

My experience with Sonic games.

- First playthrough, I stumble accross the stages, get hit here and there, die once in a while, but still manage to complete the games (as long as the game has a saving feature of course).

- I start replaying stages, I focus on trying to not get hit while also checking different paths, and as I get better at not getting hit and as I learn the stages, I start being able to get to the end of stages more quickly.

And that's about it I guess. I believe Sonic games are all about replayability and mastering the stages, not just the 2D games, but for the 3D ones as well.
Despite some of its issues, Sonic Adventure 2 did a good job on encouraging players to replay the stages with its letter based ranking system.

For all the hate it gets (much of it deserved), I probably played Adventure 2 more than all but 5 or so games in my lifetime. A lot of that was related to the Chao garden too lmao. I had the GBA cable to connect to Sonic Advance too, so I was always raising my chao on the go 😭

 

[FinalAres]

Woah boy, here comes a series of my opinions that some people might disagree with!

I was fortunate enough to grow up in a household with both a SNES and a Genesis. There is a distinct stylistic difference between first party Sega and Nintendo titles of that era that I can only quantify as "post-arcade" and "proto-modern". Sega often approached game design with the arcade in mind. Quick sessions with score boards designed to breed competition and eat quarters. Sonic 1 has a lot these arcade conventions in it's DNA. The timer, the score, the 1 button controls, etc. Speed was a measure of how good you became at navigating these levels. The joy for me came in memorizing all the routes and being able to seemlessly travel through entire levels without stopping, but it took lots of practice to do so. It turns what is essentially just a few hours of content into a highly replayable arcade-like experience.

As we got sequels, 2, CD, 3 & knuckles, more emphasis was placed on story, larger levels, more varied power ups, and mini-games. But at it's core a traditional 2D sonic title has it's heart in the arcade.

Nintendo titles were more proto-modern in the sense that they began to chase cinematic experiences (Zelda lttp, super Metroid) and long style play mechanics. The Mario and Kirby series' seemed to cater to the whole family, while Sega was chasing the teens and young adults who grew up with the NES and SMS. This affected the marketing, thus warping perceptions of Nintendo games as being "kiddy" and Sega games as being "extreme". Many allowed bad marketing to deprive themselves of great games from both systems.

So I feel sorry for those of you who fell prey to shitty marketing gimmicks, and I would like to welcome you guys to embrace Sega's arcade roots. I hope that there is a nugget of fun you can find.

The only thing I strongly object with is the idea that any of this perfectly reasonable post could be objectionable.

 

[Neiteio]

Lovely post.

Structurally, Sonic is designed fundamentally differently than most other platformers, and needs to be considered as such to appreciate it imo. A fundamental difference between Sonic and Mario (and even DKC) is that Sonic is designed as more of a replayable arcade-style experience. In Mario games you can take days or weeks to work your way through the game, slowly mastering each level one at a time by finding all of the secrets. And that's necessary, as Mario games are generally much longer than Sonic games.

Sonic takes a different approach. There are far fewer levels than in a typical Mario game, but each level is considerably more dense in a way that can make even your fifth, or hell, tenth playthrough of the game different depending on the paths taken. Sonic also funnels you from zone to zone with no world map in-between, which doesn't even allow you the immediate option of going back for secrets - a design choice that I really appreciate, as it avoids the "good stopping point" element of being thrown back into a world map in favor of constant forward momentum. Collectables (chaos emeralds) are completely missable, and while Mania replenishes special stage rings after clearing the game, the emeralds are completely missable up to that point - fail too many and you'll simply miss out, which pushes the player to start successive runs with increasing knowledge. Each Sonic level also contains unique environments and music for every zone, which further helps with replayability imo. In a given run of the game you're not going to see the same level trope more than once.

It's just a different experience. But with the right mindset I think it can be highly enjoyable.

Yeah, I just finished Zone 3 just now (still not sure how to counter the

Spoiler

wind phase

of the Act 2 boss), and while large swathes of the level had me feeling like "lol what am I doing," and while I unintentionally took a number of paths when I was trying to reach another, I can't deny that it's feeling more and more fun.

That level (3-2) feels like the most complex one yet — I couldn't even begin to map it out — but I'm already keen to replay it. I started the fourth zone but had to force myself to stop because, well, I should be making calls for work right now, lol.

Going back a couple stages, I have question about the Zone 2 boss, (

Spoiler

the Puyo Puyo one

): I could've swore I beat him, but then it made me fight him again. Are there two rounds to that fight?

At any rate, really enjoying this game. And the artwork and music is just incredible. So many creative concepts, so much detail and color. I love it.

 

[Het_Nkik]

I play the Genesis games slow and methodical for the most part. I don't like the 3D games because you're pretty much forced to play fast. They basically became single player on-foot racing games.

 

[Chû Totoro]

Is there a good level design analysis of Sonic like there are for Mario Bros. 1-1 level ? (or Mega Man or many gems of this era)

Only things I've found are these:
- Game Wisdom
- the Davoo

For me best Sonic is Sonic Adventure on Dreamcast so... clearly even if I can enjoy 2D Sonic games I'm playing them like:
- one session trying to go fast
- one session trying to find hidden path
- one session trying not to loose rings
- ...

For me it's still complicated to grasp what amaze Sonic fans in these games despite still enjoying them a lot (I liked so much Game Gear Sonic and Sonic 2)

 

[Spaced Harrier]

Dear "Sonic was never good" force:

 

[ezodagrom]

For all the hate it gets (much of it deserved), I probably played Adventure 2 more than all but 5 or so games in my lifetime. A lot of that was related to the Chao garden too lmao. I had the GBA cable to connect to Sonic Advance too, so I was always raising my chao on the go ��

Indeed, in my case it was taking the Chao in Dreamcast's VMU.
I had a pretty hard time collecting all 180 emblems back then, more recently I did it again for the PC version (I had a much easier time on PC due to already having it done before on Dreamcast, even if it was long ago).

 

[Mr. Wedgewood]

Would be interesting to see the barrel of doom in this game. Wonder how many newcomers would be able to figure it out.

 

[N3DS]

Yep you are not alone OP. They have been confusing to me decades ago and is still so till this day.

Also watch this to confirm you are not alone at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYDsz1NFBJw

 

[SpokkX]

With all the hype and positive words said about Sonic Mania, I'm seriously considering picking it up. However, I have no idea how to play a Sonic game.

They've always been confusing to me. Are you trying to acquire and hang onto as many rings as possible, or do they not really matter outside of lives?

Are you trying to complete levels as fast as possible or are you supposed to regularly stop and explore? The focus on speed in the game is a little confusing to me, as it seems like you'll be quickly ushered through gigantic parts of the game in the name of speed. Are you expected to kind of backtrack and explore the area that you just zoomed through?

Should you be seeking out every TV to smash? What rewards do these garner? What about enemies? Should you be trying to kill them all or is it okay to just run past them?

What do you need to do to acquire the giant ring (no idea if that's what it's called)? What makes it invisible/unattainable and what unlocks the ability to acquire it? What's the benefit of acquiring the giant ring?

I have other questions, but I guess I'll just leave it at that for now.

Yes! Exactly how i feel about Sonic - how are you supposed to play them? They have so many conflicting mechanics and design choices

I usually just run through the levels - but it feels like i a missing a lot of content

 

[Anth0ny]

when i first played sonic 2 I was 4 years old

i ran to the right while avoiding enemies



i finished sonic 2

 

[MugiwaraCole]

Woah boy, here comes a series of my opinions that some people might disagree with!

I was fortunate enough to grow up in a household with both a SNES and a Genesis. There is a distinct stylistic difference between first party Sega and Nintendo titles of that era that I can only quantify as "post-arcade" and "proto-modern". Sega often approached game design with the arcade in mind. Quick sessions with score boards designed to breed competition and eat quarters. Sonic 1 has a lot these arcade conventions in it's DNA. The timer, the score, the 1 button controls, etc. Speed was a measure of how good you became at navigating these levels. The joy for me came in memorizing all the routes and being able to seemlessly travel through entire levels without stopping, but it took lots of practice to do so. It turns what is essentially just a few hours of content into a highly replayable arcade-like experience.

As we got sequels, 2, CD, 3 & knuckles, more emphasis was placed on story, larger levels, more varied power ups, and mini-games. But at it's core a traditional 2D sonic title has it's heart in the arcade.

Nintendo titles were more proto-modern in the sense that they began to chase cinematic experiences (Zelda lttp, super Metroid) and long style play mechanics. The Mario and Kirby series' seemed to cater to the whole family, while Sega was chasing the teens and young adults who grew up with the NES and SMS. This affected the marketing, thus warping perceptions of Nintendo games as being "kiddy" and Sega games as being "extreme". Many allowed bad marketing to deprive themselves of great games from both systems.

So I feel sorry for those of you who fell prey to shitty marketing gimmicks, and I would like to welcome you guys to embrace Sega's arcade roots. I hope that there is a nugget of fun you can find.

This guy fucks.

 

[Neiteio]

This game makes me want a Donkey Kong Country 4 that recreates the look, sound and feel of the Rare games

 

[Waluigilicious]

when i first played sonic 2 I was 4 years old

i ran to the right while avoiding enemies



i finished sonic 2

Did anyone say anything about difficulty? I'm sure the OP can finish Sonic 2 too.