Support NeoGAF

[Alexander DeLarge]

Prove it's inevitable.
I'm not willing to murder 10 million people on your fucking feelings

And prove that delaying raises casualties

I'm sick of ignoring the North Korean regime while they develop technology and pray they do nothing with that technology. Now they have weapons that can do actual harm to not only anyone in the immediate area but US territories as well. US mainland next year. The time to do something about NK was back when Obama was in office. Preferably earlier than that.

Angry letters don't count.
https://youtu.be/UIPSvIz9NDs

 

[KingSnake]

Everytime I read stuff like this I remember this quote from Machiavelli:

"The Romans never allowed a trouble spot to remain simply to avoid going to war over it, because they knew that wars don't just go away, they are only postponed to someone else's advantage. Therefore, they made war with Philip and Antiochus in Greece, in order not to have to fight them in Italy... They never went by that saying which you constantly hear from the wiseacres of our day, that time heals all things. They trusted rather their own character and prudence — knowing perfectly well that time contains the seeds of all things, good as well as bad."

Remind me how many wars has Machiavelli personally won?

 

[5taquitos]

Didn't WW1 start over the death of a single guy.

Archduke Ferdinand was hardly a random dude.

 

[Engell]

Waiting will just result in them getting more and better missiles..

Also imagine me waving my big old GAF dick at a distance...
Now imagine my dick flying extremely close to your face.
Not so pleasant now is it

 

[Stone Ocean]

Nobody can prove anything either way. We're discussing possibilities.

Also, murder?

It's pretty simple: military action = Seoul burns

The US can level NK anytime. But to do so means sacrificing hundreds of thousands in SK. And doing that before being attacked also means China enters the picture and in that case you get an actual WW3.

 

[Galava]

animated:

https://video.twimg.com/tweet_video/DIWRUDrW0AA7J5w.mp4

That looks like a Hawaii trajectory. Or maybe i'm looking at the gif wrong :/ The trajectory is the black line?

 

[SDCowboy]

Fire missiles in NK's general direction as a test.

That is a horrible suggestion. NK already knows they'd get wiped off the map if they attack anyone. There is no reason to further escalate anything.

 

[entremet]

Didn't WW1 start over the death of a single guy.

Dan Carlin doesn’t think so.

 

[Xyrmellon]

I am in the boat that think it's time to attack NK. Sadly, Trump is the CIC... which doesn't bode for anything positive just dumb actions.

Trump has (reportedly) given much operational control and decision making to the military, and I have alot of confidence in Mattis and Mcmaster.

 

[KHarvey16]

you assume that he's a sane leader, very dangerous.

Assuming insanity in this case is far more dangerous. And we don't have reason to suspect insanity.

Didn't WW1 start over the death of a single guy.

Not really, no. But even if it were you aren't actually comparing that to what I said, right?

 

[Occam]

Everytime I read stuff like this I remember this quote from Machiavelli:

"The Romans never allowed a trouble spot to remain simply to avoid going to war over it, because they knew that wars don't just go away, they are only postponed to someone else's advantage. Therefore, they made war with Philip and Antiochus in Greece, in order not to have to fight them in Italy... They never went by that saying which you constantly hear from the wiseacres of our day, that time heals all things. They trusted rather their own character and prudence — knowing perfectly well that time contains the seeds of all things, good as well as bad."

This is precisely what I've been saying regarding North Korea. It should be attacked as soon as possible. The longer the rest of the world waits, the more people are going to die.

 

[SummitAve]

Is there a diplomat at the DMZ negotiation table waiting to talk to NK at all times?

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Has orange dipshit said anything yet?

 

[Maintenance]

As the NK ICBM program continues to advance i await the day people call for an invasion of NK when a ICBM lands somewhere close to Hawaii.

Pfft, Hawaii. People will start that only when missiles land near San Francisco.

 

[Al-ibn Kermit]

So any idea why it split into 3? Do ICBMs normally do that, or is it another failed one?

This is what I'm wondering also. Sorry of it was answered already. Was the missile designed to break up in the air or was this a fault?

 

[pulsemyne]

China will not be pleased by this at all. It may hate Japan but they do not want the Japanese to start changing their established peaceful military stance. Nor do they want a more aggressive US navy in the region for protection of allies. There's also the potentially destablising economic effects. Simply put China doesn't need this shit.

 

[carlsojo]

That is a horrible suggestion. NK already knows they'd get wiped off the map if they attack anyone. There is no reason to further escalate anything.

And yet here they are escalating again and they'll continue to do so until they hit something intentionally or not

 

[Memento_Mori15]

Is that why the trains were stopped this morning? They made an announcement to check on safety so it was probably unrelated. Lol

I didn’t know until they launched a missile until some random guy said so. Now my coworkers is going to ask me what trump is going to do....like I know -.-

 

[UntoldDreams]

Its not a hostage situation, its deterrence

You realize this entire situation is due to China vs USA right? Its not actually NK which has been able to keep this situation going?

 

[Nere]

I think most of the blame lies in China tbh, they have the power to calm things with NK but they aren't doing anything except if they attack someone? Well by then it will be pretty late. They have to realize Kim is a lunatic and make him stop.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

They have an above 0% chance of nuking a US city.

We can't attack without a nuclear war.

My worry is that once NK has the full capability to bomb the continental US, they will attack South Korea and Japan anyway, knowing that the US is not going to risk its own destruction for the sake of its allies.

If that is indeed what they will do, the solution would be to go to war with North Korea now.

Now, that's a big, high stakes if, so I'm not saying we should attack. I just... don't think this is clear cut.

 

[Dopus]

Fire missiles in NK's general direction as a test.

Japan and SK have war games with the United States on a regular basis - that is enough of a provocation for North Korea.

Didn't WW1 start over the death of a single guy.

Not even close. The assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand was the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

[ntropy]

don't panic

-team Hindsight

 

[ibyea]

you assume that he's a sane leader, very dangerous.

Actually, the assumption he is insane is an uninformed and dangerous position.

 

[Oriel]

Unless you had information the rest of us did not, you did not know it's path.

Based on previous form by NK the likelihood of Kim nuking Hokkaido was virtually nil. There are far better and more strategically important targets for North Korea to use its tiny nuclear arsenal on. Now, had the trajectory been towards Guam or Tokyo my initial post here would likely have been far different.

I've seen all this from NK before.

 

[SofNasciment-]

Taking notes from a barbaric empire, yeah let's go back to that time again. For the greater good, right?.

Well, in Rome's defense, tt was a Republic in the time Machiavelli is talking about.

 

[KHarvey16]

Except, you know, until one of these missiles isn't a test, has a warhead, and drops into a populated area killing a million+ innocent people. We're not dealing with a stable country when it comes to NK here.

That's not something anyone with knowledge of the situation expects from North Korea.

We can attack and guarantee millions of innocent people die, or we can assume NK continues to act in its own self interest.

 

[avaya]

Take a step back and really think about this.

No matter how aggressive NK gets Japan, SK and US will not start anything because the resulting war would be so catastrophic for Seoul. The global economic depression that would follow would never be worth it.

Even if a missile lands on the Japanese mainland, they will not change their current policy.

Only way this changes if a missile lands on a major population centre but even then it would depend if it actually had a warhead on it. Due to the position of Seoul this is a MAD scenario where they will let NK continue to throw things because every other move is irrational.

NK has done this in the past, flying over Japan is nothing new.

Sanctions can be ramped up much further and enforced more strictly, especially those relating to personal finances of the regime. There are no better options.

 

[4Tran]

Didn't WW1 start over the death of a single guy.

Sure; except that all of the players in that war were already itching for it. The French were counting down the days until they could retake Alsace-Lorraine, and the Germans were praying for a war they could win before Russia modernized enough. Here, we have a situation where no one has wanted to go to war over in the last six decades.

I think most of the blame lies in China tbh, they have the power to calm things with NK but they aren't doing anything except if they attack someone? Well by then it will be pretty late. They have to realize Kim is a lunatic and make him stop.

How do you suppose they should do any of this? Bear in mind that Kim Jong-un has been executing pro-Chinese generals for a while now.

 

[Funky Papa]

This talk about decapitation strikes reminds me of the paranoia during the Cold War and how America's top brass wanted to nuke the Soviet Union while they still had the confidence of "only" losing Europe to nuclear fire and radioactive fallout. Meanwhile, the Soviet Union, which was scared as shit of America's nuclear arsenal, had to bluff big 24/7 in order to look much more menacing than it was, which probably played no small part in saving it from a preemptive strike.

Everybody go read this book.

 

[Tagyhag]

Except, you know, until one of these missiles isn't a test, has a warhead, and drops into a populated area killing a million+ innocent people. We're not dealing with a stable country when it comes to NK here.

Sure, but then the world retaliates = North Korea is gone from the face of the Earth.

Or we could attack them now and have China attack everyone in retaliation which means we attack everyone which means Russia attacks us = No more humans.

Millions will die no matter what, but only one of those options allows the human race to live on.

 

[bootsthecat]

Except, you know, until one of these missiles isn't a test, has a warhead, and drops into a populated area killing a million+ innocent people. We're not dealing with a stable country when it comes to NK here.

Like most dictators, this motherfucker isn't looking to die. He wants to continue his reign to the biological end. Which is what would ultimately occur, were he to cause what you're suggesting. It's dickwaving. There's nothing to indicate he's interested in becoming a martyr.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Except, you know, until one of these missiles isn't a test, has a warhead, and drops into a populated area killing a million+ innocent people. We're not dealing with a stable country when it comes to NK here.

They've not started a war in 50 years, and know they would lose any.

How are we not dealing with a stable country.

Unless you mean "stable country" to mean, ignoring international relations history, non-proliferation history, history of the korean peninsula and substituting all of these things onto your own stereotypical belief about the behavior of kim and north koreans

 

[Shadow Broker]

https://www.voanews.com/a/a-13-2009-04-05-voa2-68733937/357836.html

Dude I quoted you earlier this thread and you've brought up this happened 8 years ago. Your not thinking about who the President of the United States is and the kind of person he is. 8 years ago we didn't have Trump as president. This is NK being more of a dick then usual but the President of my country who many people view as the most powerful military nation in the world is mentally off. This maybe NK being a bigger dick but until we see how and what Trump does there's always that possibility of something happening that hasn't happened 8 years ago. Trump is not Obama or even George W.

 

[AAK]

Even if a missile hit Japan there wouldn't be a war.

 

[lupinko]

Yeah I'm pretty petrified right now because the missile was going toward my neck of the woods. Two emergency warnings, well I'm getting to work early today.

 

[Mr.Mike]

Dan Carlin doesn’t think so.

I think the "straw that broke the camel's back" is the generally accepted idea about this.

 

[Surfinn]

NK has done this in the past, flying over Japan is nothing new.

When's the last time they flew a missile over Japan? I didn't know they'd done it recently

 

[hydragonwarrior]

I'm also waiting on China's official response to this. I'm sure they don't want to deal with this shit either.

 

[Jezbollah]

Pfft, Hawaii. People will start that only when missiles land near San Francisco.

Thats not what happened with Pearl Harbour..

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

Do we know how far past Japan it landed in the water? Because the only thing past that trajectory is North America.

 

[smokeymicpot]

From CBS' David Martin: Pentagon confirms North Korean missile launch flew over Japan. Was not assessed to be a threat to North America.


https://twitter.com/markknoller/status/902289813910560768

 

[afroguy10]

Didn't WW1 start over the death of a single guy.

In a sense yes but there was a looot more to it than that.

 

[Fenderputty]

I find this focus the US puts and China for this issue laughable. China has shown time and time again they don’t give a fuck and even ignore the sanctions yet everyone always talks about China.

Hell they even said they’d support NK if the US attacks first

lol they're allied with NK, of course they would say that. The actual news you're leaving out, so it fits your narrative, is that China also said they won't help if NK attacks first.

 

[JABEE]

Has orange dipshit said anything yet?

He's too busy talking about how great the ratings were for the Hurricane in Texas.

 

[dallow_bg]

https://www.voanews.com/a/a-13-2009-04-05-voa2-68733937/357836.html

Yup, that's an SLV as I stated.

 

[Dopus]

Well, in Rome's defense, tt was a Republic in the time Machiavelli is talking about.

It's is absurd point to be trying to raise in this discussion when we're talking about nuclear powers and the potential for a war that spirals into another world war.

 

[BLAUcopter]

And yet here they are escalating again and they'll continue to do so until they hit something intentionally or not

Like all the under ocean cables near Guam? Oops, there goes the internet. Oops, there goes crypto currency trading for millions of people. Can't have the peasants making more money than the government wants them too right?

US nukes the cables, blames NK, attacks NK, makes money from the war.

 

[Spoiled Milk]

This talk about decapitation strikes reminds me of the paranoia during the Cold War and how America's top brass wanted to nuke the Soviet Union while they still had the confidence of "only" losing Europe to nuclear fire and radioactive fallout. Meanwhile, the Soviet Union, which was scared as shit of America's nuclear arsenal, had to bluff big 24/7 in order to look much more menacing than it was, which probably played no small part in saving it from a preemptive strike.

Everybody go read this book.

+1,000,000.

North Korea is terrified, more than anyone in South Korea, Japan, or the US will ever understand (except those in Japan who still remember what it was like living during the firebombing.) It is the kind of existential terror that will make you do anything.

 

[SirMossyBloke]

Thats not what happened with Pearl Harbour..

That was during an existing war.