Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
I'll defend the joke with the dudes holding the sign all day, the response to that was pretty ridiculous, but this is fucking indefensible, dude is just a straight up racist asshole it seems.
PewDiePie "What a f***ing n*****." out of frustration when his teammate dies.
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A revocable license would mean that they can say "you cannot make any more content now". If they changed their text to "You can make Let's Plays, except you, PewDiePie, you can't." then that would mean he could no longer make new content. If I have a license to make a Batman movie, they can't revoke that license once the movie is out and say I need to take it down from showing at cinemas.
Well, anyone has the right to do pretty much anything, but what the ruling would be on the matter is different. They have the legal ability to do this, but many factors, pointed out by Lennard French, means that they shouldn't, as it means that Campo Santo are going back on their word, and are abusing the DMCA to get what they want. No matter if technicalities deem it legal or not, it's not really the route to go to distance oneself from PDP.
I'm glad that those that have made actual advances in these fields haven't had the same idea as you.
You asked me what laws are being broken. That's my take on it. You can't say it's not like that, either. When it comes to the license, there's precedence. When it comes to Let's Plays, there isn't. With the precedence on express licences, there's no need for a judge to see that in the case of the Firewatch Let's Plays, it is abusing YouTube's Safe Harbor provisions. I don't think that's the way to come about anything.
If it's their property surely they have just as much say in who can't stream their game as they have saying who can.
Pretty common for the terms to change with no notice given and that's for things you do explicitly agree to.
A generic statement on their website is not the same as a contractual license agreement.
Wouldn't this be similar to the pepe the frog creator stopping an alt right book from being made with the character(they still co-opt it but I don't think they could use it to make money). If pewdie were to monetize a let's play, wouldn't a company be in their right to not be associated with him for money making purposes.
It is provable that at the time he made the Let's Plays, the text on the web site said that you can make Let's Plays. Again, you can't retroactively change something.
Again, Lennard French has stated that there's precedence for that being an express license. It is legally binding.
ClosingADoor
Member
French who you mention, actually is in conversation here with the other guy on Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/MrRyanMorrison/status/907059247573118976
As for your movie example. If I revoke the license, I can stop you from distributing new copies of the film. I can't sue you for the already sold ones of course. But you are not allowed to sell new copies. This actually happens all the time. Look for example at videogames being pulled from stores because they no longer have the license for the music.
This would be pretty stupid to do now.
Wow, it's almost like he's been racist the whole time.
captainnapalm
Member
Oh dear. Does Pewdiepie have any idea what he just unleashed? This is going to feed people that live for this stuff for months.
While he obviously got somewhat exposed here, because it seems he has probably used the word before, I do feel there should be a moral distinction between using the word as a general expletive and specifically directing it towards black people. Those two things aren't the same. Neither should be done, but they're not equivalent.
I still don't think he's the kind of person who would use the word in its original US context, but I may be wrong. Either way, he's an adult male shouting the n-word while playing games on the internet. Maybe it is time for him to reflect on that.
While he obviously got somewhat exposed here, because it seems he has probably used the word before, I do feel there should be a moral distinction between using the word as a general expletive and specifically directing it towards black people. Those two things aren't the same. Neither should be done, but they're not equivalent.
I still don't think he's the kind of person who would use the word in its original US context, but I may be wrong. Either way, he's an adult male shouting the n-word while playing games on the internet. Maybe it is time for him to reflect on that.
Then I have misunderstood, and I'm sorry for having spread ignorance on the matter. But the text remains, and it is still not cool of a company to go back no their word like that. I would not want to make a Let's Play of their game if I knew they could just turn on their word.
The idea here is that if you give everyone the right to make videos of your game, you shouldn't change that stance just because you don't like something. It's like not sending review copies to someone you fear might give you a critical review. We shouldn't use the system to censor things. Even if that text wasn't in place, I would still consider it a huge loss if Let's Plays are challenged for Fair Use due to some racist moron. It could mean the end of Game Grumps, and the likes.
Actually legally, they can revoke the license at any time, even towards specific people, and due to people abusing the system you're likely to see every developer put a specific warning of revocation on their LP policy.
ClosingADoor
Member
True, this stuff ruins it for the well meaning people. Unfortunately it seems necessary. I can totally understand game companies don't want their products linked to racist personalities. It should be on Youtube to ban those people in the first place, but if they don't, then those companies need to take steps to protect their own name.
Of course he has. And he thinks he can beat it.
"Protect their own name" isn't really what's going on, though. I get a company's wish not to even have their game featured by a moron like PDP, and I get that. However, no one would think PDP is associated to Firewatch by making a Let's Play, so it's more about a moral distance than it is about protecting their brand. Again, I absolutely get the wish as a company to distance themselves from this guy, but it's not like they can claim damages. PUGB would be the only one that could that.
I just think we need to separate companies wish to distance themselves from shitheads, and companies doing shady stuff to hurt some moron. Given that Let's Plays aren't ruled to be illegal, it is selective use, and it is misusing YouTube's copyright system. I don't think we should do that to get what we want.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Here's why it is in fact equivalent: there are plenty of people that consider themselves "gamers" that watch him do that shit and think it's co-signed because they hear their favorite youtuber doing it.
And I'm tired of folks trying to say this is just an American thing. Europeans know what "nigger" means and it's the same thing it means anywhere else. Just because that culture may be completely indifferent to the opinions of the very people that word if used to denigrate doesn't mean the word magically changes to not be an epithet.
So what so you think companies will do if they have to let a racist shithead like PDP stream and make a video of their game if they want to let all people do the same?
Surely not stand there and let the biggest YouTuber be associated with their game.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Of course they're the same what on earth are you on? It's the difference between a secret racist and a racist to some ones face. Both equally damaging if you have any sort of affect on their lives, directly or indirectly.
That's why I said PUBG is different, and even all future things he touches. I mean, there are developers who have reached out to PDP and asked for him to remove the Let's Plays he has of their game. That's a better route than abusing a different set of laws. If the case was that association with PDP was damaging their company, that's not copyright. They would have to sue him for something else, but there isn't a quick button to use for that. But if that's how companies feel, that's the route they should go.
DMCA is for copyright. If they do a copyright strike to prevent damage to their company, then that's not copyright.
It's always crazy to me how racists get the benefit of the doubt.
Dude straight up says the n-word on stream, realizes he fucked up, laughs it off and never apologizes.
But hey, maybe he was using it in a different way because reasons.
Then we'll get a thread about a black man being shot by the cop for no reason and people are like WAIT FOR THE FACTS BEFORE YOU BLAME THE COP!
I'm not saying it's the same people. Just pointing out another way systemic racism is propagated.
Dude straight up says the n-word on stream, realizes he fucked up, laughs it off and never apologizes.
But hey, maybe he was using it in a different way because reasons.
Then we'll get a thread about a black man being shot by the cop for no reason and people are like WAIT FOR THE FACTS BEFORE YOU BLAME THE COP!
I'm not saying it's the same people. Just pointing out another way systemic racism is propagated.
I really think Boogie's response is deplorable. He actively rushes out not to take a side.
I mean, I get TB's response in at least some way. He says "OK, so someone was a racist. That doesn't mean I have to condemn it", and I get that. If he wants to stay out of it, that's cool. But he's saying an awful lot for someone staying out of it.
Stop.
Take a step back.
What do you think that word means?
The only reason it's an expletive is because it denotes that being black is wrong.
QuantumZebra
Member
Yea he does need an ass beating
CitizenVectron
Member
On the other hand, if you're not willing to condemn the action (even if you don't think the person is a racist themselves), then you're pussyfooting around the issue because you are too afraid of losing money (from racist/alt-right subscribers). That means he values money over convictions. So not cool.
captainnapalm
Member
That's one argument. But also you could just use that word because you know the word is wrong and is shocking.
Basically I agree with this take from earlier in the thread:
llien
Banned
No, it is expletive because it has been used as such.
I agree. If the only statement was that "I'm not gonna talk on the subject", then that would be fine. I don't think he has any obligation to. However, once you are part of the conversation, the first thing you should do is to condemn it. It's like the Trump nazi thing all over again.
I defended him with all the "kill the jews" debacle because it was taken out of context, but I cannot defend him on this one.
Someone who says a word such as this one impulsively at a moment of rage is very likely someone who also uses it in private settings, which I do believe makes him either a racist or at the very least an extremely inconsiderate person (in case he uses it just as a random insult and not as a slur directed explicitly towards people of African descent).
Anyway, shame on him. My perception of him has changed completely.
Someone who says a word such as this one impulsively at a moment of rage is very likely someone who also uses it in private settings, which I do believe makes him either a racist or at the very least an extremely inconsiderate person (in case he uses it just as a random insult and not as a slur directed explicitly towards people of African descent).
Anyway, shame on him. My perception of him has changed completely.
If you yell n***er as an expletive, that means it's in your vocabulary.
This bullshit facade of excusing Europeans or saying it's only an expletive and not directed at a black person so it's not bad is just straight on embarrassing yourself.
It's a fucking expletive BECAUSE it's derogatory to some people... any excuse along that line basically says to me that you use it as well. We've already had one person admit it. At least he was straightforward in his misguidedness
This bullshit facade of excusing Europeans or saying it's only an expletive and not directed at a black person so it's not bad is just straight on embarrassing yourself.
It's a fucking expletive BECAUSE it's derogatory to some people... any excuse along that line basically says to me that you use it as well. We've already had one person admit it. At least he was straightforward in his misguidedness
As a way to denote that black people are subhuman.
Jesus Christ, stop trying to compartmentalize racial slurs.
llien
Banned
I'm commenting on the "it is only.... because in Latin it means".
It has nothing to do with what it means in Latin.
Any word can be used in such way that it becomes an insult.
Huh?
plagiarize
Banned
No Total Biscuit, you don't have to condemn racists, but any intelligent half decent human being FUCKING WOULD.
I get that it's easier for people like Boogie and TB to have more empathy towards other white guys who do the same job they do (racist or otherwise), than to black people that get hurt by specific words, but you don't need empathy in order to see that this shit is indefensible.
INDEFENSIBLE.
People in your field are doing indefensible shit. You have three choices. Defend it and prove yourself to be as bad as they are. Condemn it, and show that you won't tolerate that shit in your field or not condemn it, and send the message that shit like that is acceptable to you.
That's it. Sorry if you think that's unfair. Must be awful being a fedora wearing white guy on the internet.
I get that it's easier for people like Boogie and TB to have more empathy towards other white guys who do the same job they do (racist or otherwise), than to black people that get hurt by specific words, but you don't need empathy in order to see that this shit is indefensible.
INDEFENSIBLE.
People in your field are doing indefensible shit. You have three choices. Defend it and prove yourself to be as bad as they are. Condemn it, and show that you won't tolerate that shit in your field or not condemn it, and send the message that shit like that is acceptable to you.
That's it. Sorry if you think that's unfair. Must be awful being a fedora wearing white guy on the internet.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Got my racist bingo card filled quickly.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Nailed it.
bobbychalkers
Member
Ain't that the truth....
What an incredibly stupid argument.
No. Paying someone to hold a sign that says Death to Jews is not defensible.
No no no no no. Jesus fucking Christ, people.
I can see it. Growing up in a black brown community words like niggar, rape, faggot and retard were all just another slur. My family for the most part has stopped using those words. Im willing to take people at face value when they say their not being racist, but they should do some introspection and definitely not excuse pewds cuz hes a large public figure who used the word in a public context with a lot of influence.
Nah. That shit was inexcusable too.
CarlisleDavid1979
Member
Anti semitism isn't hilarious either.
He will.
...sigh.
lol ok. Casual anti-antisemitism is A-OK in your book then? I see
QuantumZebra
Member
I went to school with and played games with people that used that word heavily and I *never* *ever* use it, whether it be "accidentally" or not. Accidentally racismed is a bullshit fucking excuse.
Mammoth Jones
Member
I grew up in a Black community but no one uses "nigger" when they are irritated.
It's not that they're racist per se, it's that so many are so quick to handwave the shit away.
If this dude was random xbox live jerks #274728 that'd be one thing but he's a well known figure and when he does shit like this it has an effect on the community and how we treat one another.
Jim Sterling being surprisingly on-topic with this week's Jimquisition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Odoe1qVkcJ4
Look at the comment you were responding to, and then the comment they were responding to.
Are you really trying to say that the vulgarity of the word can be divorced from the fact that its use as a pejorative is entirely derived from the belief that black people are inferior?
Ya also i think he was referring to someone else when he said it and not just shouting in frusteration which makes it more suspect/hes prob some sort of racist.
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