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NHL Off-Season 2017 |OT| We’ve Been Here Since October

yyzjohn said:
So since Colin Kaepernick, you suddenly have to kneel during the anthem to show that you're against the systemic racism that's been part of the U.S. for hundreds of years? Who decided this is the correct form of protest now? Like I said, a bunch of those guys yesterday were protesting against Trump and his words, not against the original racism angle.
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This has gotten a bit weird and rhetorical. But it's simple. We all know what the situation is. We all know why people have chosen/been driven to kneel and that the intent is quite obviously not against veterans. Nevertheless, Matthews says it is dishonourable to kneel with zero acknowledgement as to the context. Then he tosses out some fluffy words about freedom of speech.

Don't stress it, Leafs fans. You can go on fellating him, as required. We all assume these guys are simply talented hockey players and not much beyond that. His ignorance will be forgotten very quickly.
 
Socreges said:
This has gotten a bit weird and rhetorical. But it's simple. We all know what the situation is. We all know why people have chosen/been driven to kneel and that the intent is quite obviously not against veterans. Nevertheless, Matthews says it is dishonourable to kneel with zero acknowledgement as to the context. Then he tosses out some fluffy words about freedom of speech.

Don't stress it, Leafs fans. You can go on fellating him, as required. We all assume these guys are simply talented hockey players and not much beyond that. His ignorance will be forgotten very quickly.
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It's actually not that simple. When you've been brought up to react a certain way to your country and it's flag, you can't suddenly tell someone that he's suddenly in the wrong for continuing to do what he's always done (in this case stand). Everyone has different life experiences and perspectives, and if you look closely enough at ANY country, you'll find huge warts which tell you that you probably shouldn't support everything your country has ever done. Should Canadian players not stand for our anthem because of how the Canadian government performed genocide against First Nations people? If Carey Price decided to protest during the anthem, would every other player suddenly have to protest and support that because he did it first and he's in the right?
 
Reckheim said:
one thing to remember is that he is playing for SKA. Its like an NHL team playing in the AHL.

Not that his numbers are not impressive regardless, they just might be a bit inflated.
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Yeah, that is the asterisk, that he is playing on a very good team.

Having said that...

https://twitter.com/aj_ranger/status/910857111768375296
https://twitter.com/aj_ranger/status/910873273667375104
https://twitter.com/AdamZHerman/status/905469745763311616
https://twitter.com/aj_ranger/status/901822447242096640
https://twitter.com/AdamZHerman/status/901130354735685632
https://twitter.com/aj_ranger/status/849659229921320960


Rangers lineup tonight:

Kreider-Zibanejad-Zuccarello
Nash-Chytil-Buchnevich
Carey-Nieves-Lettieri
Fontaine-Andersson-Puempel

McDonagh-Shattenkirk
Staal-DeAngelo
Smith-Kampfer

Lundqvist
Pavelec (was supposed to be Halverson, but now sounds like Pavs is going to dress instead)
 
yyzjohn said:
It's actually not that simple. When you've been brought up to react a certain way to your country and it's flag, you can't suddenly tell someone that he's suddenly in the wrong for continuing to do what he's always done (in this case stand). Everyone has different life experiences and perspectives, and if you look closely enough at ANY country, you'll find huge warts which tell you that you probably shouldn't support everything your country has ever done. Should Canadian players not stand for our anthem because of how the Canadian government performed genocide against First Nations people? If Carey Price decided to protest during the anthem, would every other player suddenly have to protest and support that because he did it first and he's in the right?
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And these are the conversations that need to be had because ultimately Nationalism of any flavor is a useless trap.
 
yyzjohn said:
It's actually not that simple. When you've been brought up to react a certain way to your country and it's flag, you can't suddenly tell someone that he's suddenly in the wrong for continuing to do what he's always done (in this case stand). Everyone has different life experiences and perspectives, and if you look closely enough at ANY country, you'll find huge warts which tell you that you probably shouldn't support everything your country has ever done. Should Canadian players not stand for our anthem because of how the Canadian government performed genocide against First Nations people? If Carey Price decided to protest during the anthem, would every other player suddenly have to protest and support that because he did it first and he's in the right?
Click to expand...

uhh yes you can, that's the whole fucking point.

WUT THE FUCKING YOU ON ABOUT FAMS??!!!

What a dumb hill to choose to die on.
 
19 & 21 said:
And these are the conversations that need to be had because ultimately Nationalism of any flavor is a useless trap.
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This is why I've maintained for years that nationalism and anthem playing at sporting events shouldn't be done. I don't have the anthem played for me every day when I walk into work, why should athletes have to salute the nation before every game? They've been brought up their entire lives to excel at a sport, which is their livelihood, and they're suddenly spokesmen/women for society and all it's issues? Why cause they're rich and famous?

Even though I'm against Trump and all he stands for, his being in office is actually helping in weird ways by bringing all this crap to the forefront. Nobody is hiding from it anymore. Will anything really change in the long run? I guess time will tell.
 
MetatronM said:
Rangers lineup tonight:

Kreider-Zibanejad-Zuccarello
Nash-Chytil-Buchnevich
Carey-Nieves-Lettieri
Fontaine-Andersson-Puempel

McDonagh-Shattenkirk
Staal-DeAngelo
Smith-Kampfer

Lundqvist
Pavelec (was supposed to be Halverson, but now sounds like Pavs is going to dress instead)
Click to expand...
How did the Rangers come away from the 2017 draft with 2 NHl-ready centremen?
 
Cake Boss said:
uhh yes you can, that's the whole fucking point.

WUT THE FUCKING YOU ON ABOUT FAMS??!!!

What a dumb hill to choose to die on.
Click to expand...

The fuck you going on about? If you choose to stand during the anthem you're suddenly pro-Trump? Who made this fucking rule? Reminds me of Seinfeld and Kramer choosing not to wear a red ribbon during and AIDS march.
 
yyzjohn said:
It's actually not that simple. When you've been brought up to react a certain way to your country and it's flag, you can't suddenly tell someone that he's suddenly in the wrong for continuing to do what he's always done (in this case stand). Everyone has different life experiences and perspectives, and if you look closely enough at ANY country, you'll find huge warts which tell you that you probably shouldn't support everything your country has ever done. Should Canadian players not stand for our anthem because of how the Canadian government performed genocide against First Nations people? If Carey Price decided to protest during the anthem, would every other player suddenly have to protest and support that because he did it first and he's in the right?
Click to expand...
Again, every time you get Socratic you lose the plot. I'm not saying Matthews must kneel. I'm also not saying there aren't explanations for his ignorance.

Let me put it this way. If Carey Price decided to protest the national anthem by kneeling, I would, at minimum, NOT respond by saying it would be dishonourable to do so. That completely misses the point. It undermines what is actually at issue and shifts the conversation to something entirely irrelevant. The only actual disrespect is to ignore what the purpose of the protest is and distort it by pointing to respect for veterans.
 
Socreges said:
Again, every time you get Socratic you lose the plot. I'm not saying Matthews must kneel. I'm also not saying there aren't explanations for his ignorance.

Let me put it this way. If Carey Price decided to protest the national anthem by kneeling, I would, at minimum, NOT respond by saying it would be dishonourable to do so. That completely misses the point. It undermines what is actually at issue and shifts the conversation to something entirely irrelevant. The only actual disrespect is to ignore what the purpose of the protest is and distort it by pointing to respect for veterans.
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I get your point, and you're right. I also think it's stupid of reporters to ask a 20 year old kid trying to make his way in the league to become a spokesperson for this. He said himself he's not political, as I'm sure hundreds of other players would say the same thing.

Back to Kapernick who originally brought all this into light, I didn't see him protesting when he was 20 years old, he did it recently after he had already earned something like $40 million playing football. Good for him for taking a stand and sticking by what he believes in, but he's also pretty well off now even without football in his life.
 
yyzjohn said:
The fuck you going on about? If you choose to stand during the anthem you're suddenly pro-Trump? Who made this fucking rule? Reminds me of Seinfeld and Kramer choosing not to wear a red ribbon during and AIDS march.
Click to expand...

You said this

It's actually not that simple. When you've been brought up to react a certain way to your country and it's flag, you can't suddenly tell someone that he's suddenly in the wrong for continuing to do what he's always done (in this case stand).
Click to expand...

I replied with this.

Cake Boss said:
uhh yes you can, that's the whole fucking point.

WUT THE FUCKING YOU ON ABOUT FAMS??!!!

What a dumb hill to choose to die on.
Click to expand...

Where the hell did I say just because you don't kneel it means you support Trump.

I was making light to the bolded comment about how you just said, just because someone is brought up some way we can't say anything to them.

Maybe chill out as you seem to be getting confused with who you are arguing with over this Mathews isn't a fucking saint fiasco.
 
yyzjohn said:
I get your point, and you're right. I also think it's stupid of reporters to ask a 20 year old kid trying to make his way in the league to become a spokesperson for this. He said himself he's not political, as I'm sure hundreds of other players would say the same thing.

Back to Kapernick who originally brought all this into light, I didn't see him protesting when he was 20 years old, he did it recently after he had already earned something like $40 million playing football. Good for him for taking a stand and sticking by what he believes in, but he's also pretty well off now even without football in his life.
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Paragraph 1: for sure. And you can bet the people in his life, who shape his views, are not necessarily concerned by the current political climate.

Paragraph 2: the fuck does any of that have to do with this?
 
Cake Boss said:
You said this



I replied with this.



Where the hell did I say just because you don't kneel it means you support Trump.

I was making light to the bolded comment about how you just said, just because someone is brought up some way we can't say anything to them.

Maybe chill out as you seem to be getting confused with who you are arguing with over this Mathews isn't a fucking saint fiasco.
Click to expand...

Me chill out? You swore at me first bro.

Can we hug it out? I still love you.
 
Cake Boss said:
uhh yes you can, that's the whole fucking point.

WUT THE FUCKING YOU ON ABOUT FAMS??!!!

What a dumb hill to choose to die on.
Click to expand...

yyzjohn said:
The fuck you going on about? If you choose to stand during the anthem you're suddenly pro-Trump? Who made this fucking rule? Reminds me of Seinfeld and Kramer choosing not to wear a red ribbon during and AIDS march.
Click to expand...

yyzjohn said:
I get your point, and you're right. I also think it's stupid of reporters to ask a 20 year old kid trying to make his way in the league to become a spokesperson for this. He said himself he's not political, as I'm sure hundreds of other players would say the same thing.

Back to Kapernick who originally brought all this into light, I didn't see him protesting when he was 20 years old, he did it recently after he had already earned something like $40 million playing football. Good for him for taking a stand and sticking by what he believes in, but he's also pretty well off now even without football in his life.
Click to expand...

Lmao what a comparison.

No one is asking of Mathews to be some political leader and bring forth a social issue like Kaep has done, all they wanted was something other than a ' both sides' comment.

And bullshit to that hes not political, hes the the one that brought up being from a family that served. If that's not being political then what the fuck is.
still love you even when you piss me off <3
 
Former captain Vincent Lecavalier will have his No. 4 retired by the Tampa Bay Lightning before the game against the Los Angeles Kings at Amalie Arena on Feb. 10.
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Should have been the first one, but still, glad it's finally happening.
 
ElephantShell said:
In that case the entire NHL is about to be pro Trump in about a week.

I'd be shocked if a single player wasn't standing.
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Well yes, I would not be surprised if most of the league is pro Trump but not kneeling isn't what's making them that

I'm just saying that Trump is the one who started this whole “choose a side” thing with that speech.

Nobody is asking NHL players to turn their world upside down for this cause, they're just asking them to show a little bit of empathy and awareness.
 
Socreges said:
Paragraph 1: for sure. And you can be the people in his life, who shape his views, are not necessarily concerned by the current political climate.

Paragraph 2: the fuck does any of that have to do with this?
Click to expand...

The entire kneeling thing came about because of Kapernick. He was 29 when he first started doing it, with more life experience than a kid at 20 would have. Also with that Tabris-type money it really doesn't matter to his quality of life if he suddenly loses all sources of income.
 
yyzjohn said:
It's actually not that simple. When you've been brought up to react a certain way to your country and it's flag, you can't suddenly tell someone that he's suddenly in the wrong for continuing to do what he's always done (in this case stand). Everyone has different life experiences and perspectives, and if you look closely enough at ANY country, you'll find huge warts which tell you that you probably shouldn't support everything your country has ever done. Should Canadian players not stand for our anthem because of how the Canadian government performed genocide against First Nations people? If Carey Price decided to protest during the anthem, would every other player suddenly have to protest and support that because he did it first and he's in the right?
Click to expand...

The fact that people unquestioningly do what they've been told to do from birth without thinking about it is precisely what makes attacking that learned behavior a provocative form of protest. If you're protesting and not being provocative, it means nobody is listening to you.

And the big difference between the hypothetical you've laid out compared to the present protests is that the current protests are tackling a contemporary issue, not a historical one. The things happening to black people in America are happening right now. Protesting the violence and injustice that is occurring right this very moment is something that could, theoretically, lead to concrete change in both the immediate and long term future. It could save the lives of black children who exist right now.

By contrast, protesting the historical exploitation and eradication of native peoples might be a noble gesture, but no amount of kneeling is going to restore any of those lost tribes. You can't have a political movement when there's nothing to be gained. This would make such an action more of a tribute or a remembrance, rather than a protest.
 
Pikma said:
Well Trump kinda did

*if you read this, please excuse this post imbask*
Click to expand...

There's a debate going on in this thread tho and you're invested in it so who am I to complain, I love you pikmark

My take is that the medias should not be forcing players to express their political views in random ass interview about hockey or sports, it's a dick move regardless of Matthews response. It's unrelated, uncalled for and unprofessional as fuck

Matthews response is telling tho, i'm not saying he's wearing a MAGA cap but he's probably leaning on that side
 
yyzjohn said:
The entire kneeling thing came about because of Kapernick. He was 29 when he first started doing it, with more life experience than a kid at 20 would have. Also with that Tabris-type money it really doesn't matter to his quality of life if he suddenly loses all sources of income.
Click to expand...

f32.jpg


Who said he had to take a knee or protest an anthem?
 
yyzjohn said:
This is why I've maintained for years that nationalism and anthem playing at sporting events shouldn't be done. I don't have the anthem played for me every day when I walk into work, why should athletes have to salute the nation before every game? They've been brought up their entire lives to excel at a sport, which is their livelihood, and they're suddenly spokesmen/women for society and all it's issues? Why cause they're rich and famous?

Even though I'm against Trump and all he stands for, his being in office is actually helping in weird ways by bringing all this crap to the forefront. Nobody is hiding from it anymore. Will anything really change in the long run? I guess time will tell.
Click to expand...

He did say he would be a uniter. He just didn't mean by these means.
 
imBask said:
My take is that the medias should not be forcing players to express their political views in random ass interview about hockey or sports, it's a dick move regardless of Matthews response. It's unrelated, uncalled for and unprofessional as fuck
Click to expand...

Why not, if politics is being forced into sports, then the media's job is to ask those questions.

If you don't want politics in sports then take out the national anthem, take out troop appreciation days or whatever that crap usually is, and take out the presidents talking about sports during their rallies.
 
Pikma said:
Well yes, I would not be surprised if most of the league is pro Trump but not kneeling isn't what's making them that

I'm just saying that Trump is the one who started this whole “choose a side” thing with that speech.

Nobody is asking NHL players to turn their world upside down for this cause, they're just asking them to show a little bit of empathy and awareness.
Click to expand...

True, and to be clear I would love for the players to make a statement but given what we know about the league I'm not expecting much.
 
Cake Boss said:
Why not, if politics is being forced into sports, then the media's job is to ask those questions.

If you don't want politics in sports then take out the national anthem, take out troop appreciation days or whatever that crap usually is, and take out the presidents talking about sports during their rallies.
Click to expand...

I mean... i'm super for removing the national anthem it's a dumb outdated tradition

I guess you're correct in a way, since it's not ENTIRELY unrelated (coming from events in the NFL)
 
yyzjohn said:
The entire kneeling thing came about because of Kapernick. He was 29 when he first started doing it, with more life experience than a kid at 20 would have. Also with that Tabris-type money it really doesn't matter to his quality of life if he suddenly loses all sources of income.
Click to expand...
This is a false dichotomy. Like Cake said, Matthews doesn't have to kneel or be provocative. The alternative to what he said is not to jeopardize his career or income. At all.

Also, Kaepernick's kneel coincided with a series of incidents and protests in the US. It's fair to say that he could afford to place politics over career, but not fair to suggest that he waited until he was wealthy enough. We also don't know what he felt in his heart and whether or not he would have never knelt had he been earlier in his career.
 
I cant help but to shake my head at the "dishonours the military" viewpoint.

Last I checked the flag represents everyone, and if your country has institutionalized racism, which has been proven time and time again with statistics and real world evidence, their country has let them down. The same values the military fought for in the past.

Pop said it best (once again the NBA is way ahead of the NHL)

DKln6S4VYAUekZ9.jpg

DKln6S5VoAESDl7.jpg
 
Imbask brought this up in a different community thread and thinking more about it made me realize that maybe he's not alone in thinking this

imBask said:
Trump is politics but keep moving that goalpost if that helps you post another unrelated rant that literally anyone with half a brain will agree with, just so you can get some barry horowitz type pat on the back

Being right doesn't make your post more interesting to read
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So

1) I want to apologize to anyone else here who has been annoyed/offended by my off topic rants, that was never my intention and neither was getting an especific reaction out of you (and this post is no different)

and

2) I promise it won't happen again

This is a genuine post btw, I have a severe lack of awareness of my immediate surroundings including social interactions in real life and sometimes this issue finds it's way here.
 
imBask said:
I mean... i'm super for removing the national anthem it's a dumb outdated tradition

I guess you're correct in a way, since it's not ENTIRELY unrelated (coming from events in the NFL)
Click to expand...

I agree, I wouldn't miss it at all and it takes too fucking long when every singer tries to milk it so hard.
 
Pikma said:
Imbask brought this up in a different community thread and thinking more about it made me realize that maybe he's not alone in thinking this


So

1) I want to apologize to anyone else here who has been annoyed/offended by my off topic rants, that was never my intention and neither was getting an especific reaction out of you (and this post is no different)

and

2) I promise it won't happen again

This is a genuine post btw, I have a severe lack of awareness of my immediate surroundings including social interactions in real life and sometimes this issue finds it's way here.
Click to expand...

and I was too hard on you, and I also apologize because you're a good guy friend
 
Leafs playing full lineup tonight

Moore not in... curiously no dermott either whyyy

Dominic Moore has been outplayed badly in camp so I'm not surprised

Oh and drouin is injured
 
Buba Big Guns said:
I cant help but to shake my head at the "dishonours the military" viewpoint.

Last I checked the flag represents everyone, and if your country has institutionalized racism, which has been proven time and time again with statistics and real world evidence, their country has let them down. The same values the military fought for in the past.

Pop said it best (once again the NBA is way ahead of the NHL)

DKln6S4VYAUekZ9.jpg

DKln6S5VoAESDl7.jpg
Click to expand...
Popovich? He's also a unique force in sports. Very, very intelligent and clear-minded (see: 'woke').
 
Pikma said:
Imbask brought this up in a different community thread and thinking more about it made me realize that maybe he's not alone in thinking this


So

1) I want to apologize to anyone else here who has been annoyed/offended by my off topic rants, that was never my intention and neither was getting an especific reaction out of you (and this post is no different)

and

2) I promise it won't happen again

This is a genuine post btw, I have a severe lack of awareness of my immediate surroundings including social interactions in real life and sometimes this issue finds it's way here.
Click to expand...

The great thing about NHL-gaf is that we can talk about this sort of shit without immediately writing each other off.

Political threads in OT are a different beast.
 
Cactus said:
The great thing about NHL-gaf is that we can talk about this sort of shit without immediately writing each other off.

Political threads in OT are a different beast.
Click to expand...

No, everyone who disagrees with my viewpoint is a huge jabroni
 
Hey Joe, don't make us sad
Take a bad team and make it better
Remember not to let her into your zone
Then you can start to make it better better BETTER BETTER
 
DopeyFish said:
Oh and drouin is injured
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lol wut.

I guess it kind of makes sense as to why hes been barely playing any games.

It just didn't make sense to me as they are trying to force a guy that hasn't played any center since junior to suddenly switch back to it as a #1 center, and not even give him any reps in meaningless games to get accustomed to the position. I thought it was just Habs being Habs again.
 
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