Mass shooting at the Mandalay Bay Las Vegas; 58 dead, 500+ injured.

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So... This is terrorism, right?

I mean they are going to try and spin this into organizations like Antifa or BLM or Neo-Nazi or Republicans or Democrats or black or white... But this is terrorism, right?
 
MaximL said:
So if you can't buy illegal weapons where the hell would the man have got them? Is the black market really that prolific a normal guy can just grab an AR? This has to be the most horrifying & peculiar mass shooting of all time.
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I was under the impression it was legal weapons with illegal modifications. If this guy was a millionaire, he would have no problem finding someone to do it for him, if he had not already made the modifications himself.
 
HarryDemeanor said:
What is it going to take for people in Washington to wake up and say "enough is enough?"
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I legitimately think the only way this happens, is when they legitimately fear for themselves and their families safety. Where they're worried about going to the concert/event/festival because this is happening in their neighborhood. The circumstances in this instance in particular should shake everyone, everywhere. Hopefully it leads to some steps that start to alter the way this country sees and regulates guns.

I would consider anything a win at this point.

I'm not holding my breath though.

Real Hero said:
Alex jones is already saying the police found him 'covered in antifa crap'.
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Fuck everything, but especially fuck this guy for having a platform to say this shit. I should ask for a source first realistically, but yeah.
 
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew said:
So... This is terrorism, right?

I mean they are going to try and spin this into organizations like Antifa or BLM or Neo-Nazi or Republicans or Democrats or black or white... But this is terrorism, right?
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Depends on the motivation for a strict definition of terrorism.

But as a practical matter, I don't think it matters much.
 
MaximL said:
So if you can't buy illegal weapons where the hell would the man have got them? Is the black market really that prolific a normal guy can just grab an AR? This has to be the most horrifying & peculiar mass shooting of all time.
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Was the weapon itself illegal, or just it's modifications?
 
Him "never leaving the house except to go gambling" sounds kind of concerning---I know "let people be" and all, but I'd worry something was up if I was his family.

If he's rich, I also wonder if he was able to buy off some charges in the past explaining his oddly squeaky clean record?
 
NoRéN;250714121 said:
A bigger paycheck than the one the NRA provides.
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The NRA doesn't even contribute that much money to most people's campaigns.

From what I've observed, most of their power comes from being incredibly well funded and supported, giving them the ability to throw around their weight and their will with complete impunity. They organize better than almost any other organization. Most of their millions of members eat up everything that comes out of their pipeline.

That endorsement or non-endorsement tends to mean everything for many politicians.
 
NoRéN;250714121 said:
A bigger paycheck than the one the NRA provides.
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Less about the NRA, and more about their constituents. These people live & breathe guns. Post-Sandy Hook, I don't remember one gun owning acquaintance second guessing their hobby. All they talked about was Obama confiscating, and the price spikes on ammo and guns.
 
Mooreberg said:
I was under the impression it was legal weapons with illegal modifications. If this guy was a millionaire, he would have no problem finding someone to do it for him, if he had not already made the modifications himself.
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Jesus, didn't know it was that simple. I don't think we'll ever know the motive behind this. I just can't see how someone can just snap like that. Not saying people don't lose it and do something crazy but loading up on 19 weapons and going to Vegas to kill takes some thought.
 
streetsahead123 said:
I think what bothers me the most is when people say “Common sense gun control legislation wouldn’t have prevented THIS shooting.” Ok, maybe that’s true, but if common sense gun legislation only prevents one death from now until the end of time, then it still would have been worth it. You should not be willing to trade even just one person’s life in exchange for being able to buy a gun a bit more easily.
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A distressing number of people literally value gun ownership over human life. They would rather see this kind of horror continue than have any kinds of limits put on their precious firearms. I cannot wrap my head around it.
 
Pai Pai Master said:
Nothing because a number of republican lawmakers profit off gun proliferation. Lobbyists and the NRA own them.
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They might change their tune if they're the ones in the firing line. An entire room of NRA lobbyists and their bought and paid for politicians getting mowed down might finally break through to them just how insane, callous, immoral, and irresponsible their attitudes towards gun control are. Their own lives are just about the only thing they care more about than money.
 
MaddenNFL64 said:
Less about the NRA, and more about their constituents. These people live & breathe guns. Post-Sandy Hook, I don't remember one gun owning acquaintance second guessing their hobby. All they talked about was Obama confiscating, and the price spikes on ammo and guns.
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Even most NRA members support additional common sense gun regulation.

Its the NRA themselves. The will of the people is there to make changes.
 
Dont know if it’s already been said, but sounds like he bought firearms at a local Nevada shop, according to CNN. Fully background checked and approved. Not sure if they were the same guns used for the shooting, but it doesn’t bode well.
 
HazySaiyan said:
An anti-gun lobby with really deep pockets.

Seriously America your system is fucked.
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It’s an economic problem. As an idea, if life insurance companies or medical insurance companies stopped covering you, or charged you a 2x premium if you own a firearm people themselves would willfully give up their guns. If you die and it turns out you did own a gun, insurance doesn’t pay out. Insurance companies bump up your premiums if you smoke, they can do the same for other hazards.
 
It should be noted that automatic weapons aren't even illegal in Nevada. So without knowing what rifles he actually had we can't say for sure whether they were illegal or not.

Under federal law, machine guns, considered automatic weapons, are legal to own as long as they were made before May 1986 and are registered with the federal government.

Some states, such as California and Massachusetts, ban machine guns outright, with some exceptions, such as for police training. Nevada allows the private purchase of machine guns as long as they fall within the federal guidelines.

As of November 2006, the national firearms registry contained registrations for 391,532
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I hate how numb and fleeting we've become to mass shootings.
The media will forget about it in a few week and nothing will change.

It's become all too familiar and it pains my soul.
 
finalflame said:
Dont know if it’s already been said, but sounds like he bought firearms at a local Nevada shop, according to CNN. Fully background checked and approved. Not sure if they were the same guns used for the shooting, but it doesn’t bode well.
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That's the problem, this guy was squeaky clean. There needs to be much tougher gun laws not just background checks.

Those kind of guns should not be available to buy. The line should be pistols and reasonable hunting equipment.
 
finalflame said:
Dont know if it’s already been said, but sounds like he bought firearms at a local Nevada shop, according to CNN. Fully background checked and approved. Not sure if they were the same guns used for the shooting, but it doesn’t bode well.
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No system will stop all issues. It would make accidents and “heat of the moment” stuff plummet, though.

No matter how he got them, anti-gun control people will find a way to excuse it.
 
finalflame said:
Dont know if it’s already been said, but sounds like he bought firearms at a local Nevada shop, according to CNN. Fully background checked and approved. Not sure if they were the same guns used for the shooting, but it doesn’t bode well.
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He's from Mesquite, so of course he bought his guns in Nevada. This doesn't change the story much.
 
LegendofJoe said:
They might change their tune if they're the ones in the firing line. An entire room of NRA lobbyists and their bought and paid for politicians getting mowed down might finally break through to then just how insane, callous, immoral, and irresponsible their attitudes towards gun control are. Their own lives are just about the only thing they care more about than money.
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I don't see Steve Scalise's A+ rating from the NRA changing any time soon.
 
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https://twitter.com/igorvolsky
 
perfectchaos007 said:
I bet he lost more money than he planned that night and decided to take it out on the innocent. If he didn't have easy access to all those automatic rifles this could have been prevented.
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He took that many weapons 80 miles in case gambling didn't go his way? A pistol and a bullet is all you need if you think you might gamble yourself into suicide. This was premeditated, but his reasons were not broadcasted openly which is not typical for this manner of tragedy.
MaximL said:
Jesus, didn't know it was that simple. I don't think we'll ever know the motive behind this. I just can't see how someone can just snap like that. Not saying people don't lose it and do something crazy but loading up on 19 weapons and going to Vegas to kill takes some thought.
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I think the fact he had the weapons there since September 28 makes it less of a "snap" and more of a gradual decline into premeditated terrorism. This isn't someone returning to an office in a fit of rage after being fired or laid off. You will probably hear that he was an unassuming, "perfect guest" with no history of creating problems for any hotel or casino he was patronizing. It just seems too cold and calculating to be spur of the moment.
 
Guys I appreciate the attempt at driving home the point that the face of terrorism can look like any color/background, but Terrorism has to have political motivations right? We should probably stop calling this "an act of Terror" till information about motivations and reasons by the perpetrator are revealed.
 
PK Gaming said:
Anyone else growing numb to the mass shooting cycle? The twitter callouts, the cyclical arguments, that onion article, semantics regarding terrorists, the borderline psychotic spinning from the alt-right, and the NRA. I'm frustrated with all of this bullshit. I wish we could actually make a difference, but it just seems impossible. Especially with the current presidency which is already impossible to deal with it.

Haven't felt this frustrated in a long time.
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It's just depressing thinking that dozens of people are killed every few months in an event like this and having to accept that "this is just a thing that happens", because nothing ever changes to prevent it.
 
Mooreberg said:
He took that many weapons 80 miles in case gambling didn't go his way? A pistol and a bullet is all you need if you think you might gamble yourself into suicide. This was premeditated, but his reasons were not broadcasted openly which is not typical for this manner of tragedy.

I think the fact he had the weapons there since September 28 makes it less of a "snap" and more of a gradual decline into premeditated terrorism. This isn't someone returning to an office in a fit of rate after being fired or laid off. You will probably hear that he was an unassuming, "perfect guest" with no history of creating problems for any hotel or casino he was patronizing. It just seems too cold and calculating to be spur of the moment.
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Yeah, they said he had purchased a special hammer to knock the windows out of the hotel. He had to really think everything through. This dude had planned this for awhile I'm thinking.
 
Pai Pai Master said:
Nothing because a number of republican lawmakers profit off gun proliferation. Lobbyists and the NRA own them.
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Americans need to arm themselves and put out a hitlist on gun lobbyists and the NRA.
Shoot them all dead. And their families dead. Then, maybe they'll think free access to firearms is a bad idea. But probably not.
 
There are also gun mods that can skirt those laws, the results probably don't perform that well in a firefight, but could raise the danger level of these guns.

IT also seems like you can buy full auto kits, but it's illegal to actually use them? Or do they put the regulation at the point of sale on the mod?
 
2blackcats said:
That's the problem, this guy was squeaky clean. There needs to be much tougher gun laws not just background checks.

Those kind of guns should not be available to buy. The line should be pistols and reasonable hunting equipment.
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Except that hand guns are the most prevalent killing weapons in the US.

A long barrel semi auto with a 5 shot clip or shotgun should be the extent and then it should need a license.
 
The video of those shots going off sure as shit sounds like automatic gunfire to me. If semi autos can fire that fast there isn’t a meaningful difference.
 
Nafai1123 said:
It should be noted that automatic weapons aren't even illegal in Nevada. So without knowing what rifles he actually had we can't say for sure whether they were illegal or not.
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That's the law in almost every state. It should also be noted that legal automatic weapons cost upwards of $20,000 and require months of paperwork processing. There have been only two known instances of homicides with legally owned full-autos after the NFA act of 1934, and both cases happened long before the 1986 manufacturing ban, so prices weren't prohibitive as they are now. So while it's POSSIBLE that this guy had legally purchased full-autos (especially given that he was rich), it's much more likely that the guns were illegally modified.

If anything, full-autos are a good example of how effective the NFA act is at keeping guns out of the hands of criminals or people who would use them impulsively.

electricpirate said:
There are also gun mods that can skirt those laws, the results probably don't perform that well in a firefight, but could raise the danger level of these guns.

IT also seems like you can buy full auto kits, but it's illegal to actually use them? Or do they put the regulation at the point of sale on the mod?
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It's a felony to own a "kit" or device that converts a gun to full-auto, even if that kit isn't installed in the gun. Please note that devices like binary triggers and bump-fire stocks aren't illegal because they don't actually make the gun fully-automatic by definition.
 
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