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[Brazil]

Some of us prefer not to live our whole lives on the soapbox. There is a difference between actually working towards meaningful change and getting in people's faces because it feels good

If you're really gonna go ahead with this pathetic holier-than-thou attitude, then please entertain us with the myriad ways in which Machina is single-handedly improving the world with his always on-point political protests on a daily basis.

Fuck off with this crap, man. People can exercise their right to protest and put forward their political views in whatever way they want, and you're in no position to question them.

 

[farting]

I was very excited for this game and yet was not aware of JonTron's involvement. To then hear that he has not been removed from the finished product is dismaying. I was signed up to make the OT for this game. Cross-posting what I just posted in the OT thread:

Due to issues surrounding A Hat in Time brought to my attention by Cerium, I concur that a dialogue needs to take place regarding whether or not it's appropriate to platform this game on GAF due to the JonTron controversy. Mod input would be appreciated.

don't you think this is going way too far? blacklisting a game because a guest voice actor in the game said something that, while shit, isn't that uncommon a view...at least 30% of the USA wouldn't think is very controversial.

your average game credits may have many people with similar or worse views too.

it isn't giving him a platform because the only people who will notice or recognise his voice are fans or ex-fans, I doubt the game advertises who it is. and unless he recites the 14 words in game it's really not that bad is it? not enough to call for a boycott surely?

 

[Lijik]

Except it wasn't a gotch post. I personally think if I was going to boycott stuff I'd go all he way but I have realized I'm not everyone so I cannot speak for everyone. So I'll just drop it

your first paragraph pulling that "guess all you listen to is christian rap!" nonsense is a textbook gotcha what in the world are you talking about

 

[PrinnyBomb]

We should put together a list of racist developers for ease of reference that can let us know who to avoid

This game would not belong on said list.

 

[qig]

This honestly hurts me. Sugiyama is a disgusting piece of shit, but by the time I found out about his bullshit, I was already completely enamored with the entire franchise.

This is a completely different scenario. Despite the fact that I've been following A Hat in Time for years, and only didn't donate to its Kickstarter campaign because I was having a rough month at the time, these guys are essentially unproven developers. I have no emotional attachment to their game. I have no trouble throwing my interest in it aside to take a political stance.

But then again, as others have said, you have the right to pick your battles. I certainly wouldn't begrudge anyone who avoids anything Dragon Quest related because of Sugiyama.

So it's ok to support shitty people as long as you're 'emotionally enamored" with the products that they work on?

 

[VibratingDonkey]

Based on the performance here, one of the developers could've replaced him. Why would you keep this white supremacist scumbag in your game?

 

[Machina]

So it's ok to support shitty people as long as you're 'emotionally enamored" with the products that they work on?

The Roman Polanski rule?

 

[MUnited83]

One, you sound so desperate its telling. You obviously have some sort of reason to defend having white supremacists in your games.

Two, mentioning "but what about THESE OTHER THINGS," that have nothing to do with the topic at hand, is, well, whataboutism. Clear deflection that honestly isn't even close to making a good or relevant point, considering that none of those other game voice actors openly said what Jontron said.

It's cute you coming up with " You obviously have some sort of reason to defend having white supremacists in your games.
"
Really tells how fucking desesperate you are to try to paint anyone that thinks BANNING A ENTIRE GAME FROM DISCUSSION BECAUSE ONE MINOR VOICE ACTOR as a white supremacist. Especially hilarious if you actually bothered to check any of my posts in GAF. Keep it up, your discussion skills are quite something.
You really think none of those other game voice actors said openly what Jontron said? They have, the only fucking difference is they are not as famous as Jon.
There are games discussed on GAF that are literally made by Japanese War Crime deniers, and we're going to start banning on fucking people with minor VA roles that in no way represent the views of the dev? Holy fucking shit.
Even fucking Doug TenNapel games, a guy which is a HUGE PIECE OF SHIT WITH HORRIBLE VIEWS and it's the ACTUAL DEVELOPER of those games, don't get banned, and you want to ban A Hat in Time?

 

[PrinnyBomb]

So it's ok to support shitty people as long as you're 'emotionally enamored" with the products that they work on?

It's not ideal but you can't blame him. Do you not use banks, or buy anything made in China?

 

[Granjinha]

By the way and I could be wrong, but I don't think they paid to have Jontron in their game

In Yooka-Laylee, he volunteered to voice a character, they took him in to bring his audience.

I don't think it really matters, if they didn't paid, that only goes with my point. It's not cheap to hire VA, and a Hat in Time has VA in every single sentence to the point that i have played so far.

They should definitely send out a statement if that's the case, though.

I forget the specifics, but he's a historical revisionist. He paid for an ad in an American newspaper denying Japanese World War 2 war crimes.

I see. Yeah, that sucks.

 

[TriAceJP]

Let it go, guys.

 

[L Thammy]

Based on the performance here, one of the developers could've replaced him. Why would you keep this white supremacist scumbag in your game?

To be fair, I think recording studios themselves are really expensive. I presume they don't want to record on a laptop microphone.

But the devs could just make a statement that while they don't approve on JonTron's statements, it's too expensive to replace his voice. I think that's valid.

Let it go, guys.

Nah.

 

[Brazil]

So it's ok to support shitty people as long as you're 'emotionally enamored" with the products that they work on?

As I've said in that post you quoted, you're free to pick your battles as you see fit. I'm not proud of the fact that I give Sugiyama money, as little as it may be. But I'm still human, and I just can't let go of Dragon Quest anymore.

But to answer your question, yes, it is ok. You can do whatever you want, as long as you're aware of the consequences of your actions. It's fucked up, but I have an iPhone and enjoy it despite knowing about Foxconn's treatment of their employees.

But none of that invalidates my right to protest and boycott things when I feel it's the right thing to do.

 

[Mivey]

Based on the performance here, one of the developers could've replaced him. Why would you keep this white supremacist scumbag in your game?

If enough people raise attention, they'll drop him. Hat in Time is a bit more niche compared to LY, and the devs might be busy finishing last minute stuff in the game.

 

[Alej]

If you would know the amount of bad (to you) people you give money everyday in your life...

Racists. Pedophiles. Criminals. Rapists. Torturers. Scumbags. People you simply don't like. Etc.

I think you can exile yourself in the woods.

 

[CopperPuppy]

This honestly hurts me. Sugiyama is a disgusting piece of shit, but by the time I found out about his bullshit, I was already completely enamored with the entire franchise.

This is a completely different scenario. Despite the fact that I've been following A Hat in Time for years, and only didn't donate to its Kickstarter campaign because I was having a rough month at the time, these guys are essentially unproven developers. I have no emotional attachment to their game. I have no trouble throwing my interest in it aside to take a political stance.

But then again, as others have said, you have the right to pick your battles. I certainly wouldn't begrudge anyone who avoids anything Dragon Quest related because of Sugiyama.

Well, you're definitely right that it's a "completely different scenario" - in your case you're justifying the purchase of a product created by someone with horrific and unspeakable beliefs.

 

[Stone Ocean]

So it's ok to support shitty people as long as you're 'emotionally enamored" with the products that they work on?

It all comes down to what you're ok with and where you draw a line. I probably support shitty people on a daily basis without even knowing, if I'm to worry about every single case then I wouldn't be able to live.

 

[NahaNago]

don't you think this is going way too far? blacklisting a game because a guest voice actor in the game said something that, while shit, isn't that uncommon a view...at least 30% of the USA wouldn't think is very controversial.

your average game credits may have many people with similar or worse views too.

it isn't giving him a platform because the only people who will notice or recognise his voice are fans or ex-fans, I doubt the game advertises who it is. and unless he recites the 14 words in game it's really not that bad is it? not enough to call for a boycott surely?

99% of the world is either racist,homophobic, transphobic, or islamaphobic. So not buying something because you know of one person was a part of its creation just seems silly.

 

[Jazzem]

Yup, it's disappointing and the dev's silence and complacency is discomforting :/ I recognise the desire to not get a Playtonic esque backlash, but frankly the lack of comment on it shows no issue with normalising people like Tron as well as the continued lack of repercussions for bigoted sentiments. It's already dispiriting that his new video did well, coupled with comments on the GamExplain video glad at his inclusion while naively dismissing his bullshit as a non-controversy. I agree that at the very least they should make a statement that they don't endorse or condone his views.

I doubt I'd have been getting the game soon anyway due to funds+backlog, but if/whenever I get to it I sure hope there's an easy way to not hear the scumbag's voice, even if it's only there for a brief stint. Game looks lovely otherwise, such a shame to have this taint it...

Also, thanks to this thread TIL the main voice in Codename S.T.E.A.M is the ass who started gamergate, holy shit D:

guess what, no one here that's refusing to buy the game because of a well known racist being in it is an asshole because of that, no matter how much you want to believe it.

but people being manipulative weasels playing the "oh woe is the small indie developer (who did jack shit about this problem for seven months) card" trying to guilt posters while in the same breath trying to say it's better to cater to the whims of white supremacists because theyre more threatening are definitely assholes. Cowardly ones at that.


Please do tell what the nuance in not saying or doing anything for seven months while one of your voice actors goes on a rant about the gene pool being sullied by minorities

So damn well put. The obnoxious smugness of these sentiments coupled with the downplaying of the dangers of bigoted rhetroic is frankly gross.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

If you would know the amount of bad (to you) people you give money everyday in your life...

Racists. Pedophiles. Criminals. Rapists. Torturers. Scumbags. People you simply don't like. Etc.

I think you can exile yourself in the woods.

Is living life with your head under the sand any better?

 

[ScaryShark]

If you would know the amount of bad (to you) people you give money everyday in your life...

Racists. Pedophiles. Criminals. Rapists. Torturers. Scumbags. People you simply don't like. Etc.

I think you can exile yourself in the woods.

...but when you do know? It's pretty easy to not give that thing money. Especially something non-essential like a video game.

 

[zMiiChy-]

I'm going to buy the game because it looks fun and cute.
I didn't even know who Jon Tron was prior to reading a post on neogaf a few weeks ago.

 

[PSqueak]

If you would know the amount of bad (to you) people you give money everyday in your life...

Racists. Pedophiles. Criminals. Rapists. Torturers. Scumbags. People you simply don't like. Etc.

I think you can exile yourself in the woods.

If i don't know, i can't do anything about it, but i can do something about those i know, like Jon Tron being in this game, so im opting to not buy it.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

What's the story with Sugiyama?

Found an article about it on Gamasutra, also discussing a similar question around the game 'Shadow Complex':
https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/115571/Opinion_The_Complex_Question.php

Even brings up Neogaf.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

If you would know the amount of bad (to you) people you give money everyday in your life...

Racists. Pedophiles. Criminals. Rapists. Torturers. Scumbags. People you simply don't like. Etc.

I think you can exile yourself in the woods.

But I don't know. If I did, they likely wouldn't get my money.

I do know Jon Tron is a white supremacist. So I can avoid him.

 

[MUnited83]

...but when you do know? It's pretty easy to not give that thing money. Especially something non-essential like a video game.

Considering Jon either already got paid for it, or wasn't even paid at all, none of your money is going to him.

 

[Brazil]

Well, you're definitely right that it's a "completely different scenario" - in your case you're justifying the purchase of a product created by someone with horrific and unspeakable beliefs.

Yeah, no. Aeana may potentially correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Sugiyama has actually touched a Dragon Quest game for ages.

Even if he had, though, I still stand by my choices. I'm not justifying anything because I don't have to. As I've already stated, what, four times before in this thread, you can and should exercise the right to pick your battles as you see fit, and those choices do not invalidate your voice when you do choose to raise it.

 

[ScaryShark]

Considering Jon either already got paid for it, or wasn't even paid at all, none of your money is going to him.

I don't like supporting products that feature racists in it. It's not solely a financial decision. It's literally the least I can do in a situation like this.

 

[James Scott]

The voice clip doesn’t even sound very good.
They’ll probably leave it in, tho

 

[Alej]

Is living life with your head under the sand any better?

I'm not naive. And i'm not an hypocrite.

 

[MrChocolate]

Is living life with your head under the sand any better?

I bet the device you used to post this message, was built with the suffering of underage kids or borderline slavery. And that is very much public information.

It is very different to bury your head under the sand, and other is where to draw the line. Do I get this expensive piece of hardware build by a borderline slave? Do I get those shoes that used child labor?

 

[Tiops]

This honestly hurts me. Sugiyama is a disgusting piece of shit, but by the time I found out about his bullshit, I was already completely enamored with the entire franchise.

This is a completely different scenario. Despite the fact that I've been following A Hat in Time for years, and only didn't donate to its Kickstarter campaign because I was having a rough month at the time, these guys are essentially unproven developers. I have no emotional attachment to their game. I have no trouble throwing my interest in it aside to take a political stance.

But then again, as others have said, you have the right to pick your battles. I certainly wouldn't begrudge anyone who avoids anything Dragon Quest related because of Sugiyama.

For you. People could be "completely enamored" with what is being displayed of A Hat in Time without playing it. Actually in your case it's actually worse lol, as Sugiyama gets a lot of money from every Dragon Quest sale, including yours, and Jontron won't get anything from each sale of AHiT.

And even worse yet, Jontron is a voice for a character. Sugiyama's work is present every second of when you're playing Dragon Quest games. There's basically not a moment in the game that his compositions are not playing.

But that doesn't mean that you support or are ok with Japanese war crimes, does it? I believe it's the same way for people that will buy A Hat in Time.

 

[CopperPuppy]

Yeah, no. Aeana may potentially correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Sugiyama has actually touched a Dragon Quest game for ages.

Even if he had, though, I still stand by my choices. I'm not justifying anything because I don't have to. As I've already stated, what, four times before in this thread, you can and should exercise the right to pick your battles as you see fit, and those choices do not invalidate your voice when you do choose to raise it.

What are you talking about? He's scoring the new one. He scored X, IX, VIII, etc. He is a vital part of the franchise. He has espoused unthinkable beliefs. In your mind, you still think it's OK to support his product.

 

[Brazil]

For you. People could be "completely enamored" with what is being displayed of A Hat in Time without playing it. Actually in your case it's actually worse lol, as Sugiyama gets a lot of money from every Dragon Quest sale, including yours, and Jontron won't get anything from each sale of AHiT.

And even worse yet, Jontron is a voice for a character. Sugiyama's work is present every second of when you're playing Dragon Quest games. There's basically not a moment in the game that his compositions are not playing.

But that doesn't mean that you support or are ok with Japanese war crimes, does it? I believe it's the same way for people that will buy A Hat in Time.

No shit it's for me. I'm literally discussing my experience, my personal views, and my positions.

And please don't put words in my mouth. I never once in this thread said you shouldn't buy A Hat in Time, or that by buying it you're a white supremacist, or anything like that. On the contrary. The people I've argued with are the ones who are bothered by the fact that people are exercising their right to not buy this game because of JonTron's involvement.

What are you talking about? He's scoring the new one. He scored X, IX, VIII, etc. He is a vital part of the franchise. He has espoused unthinkable beliefs. In your mind, you still think it's OK to support his product.

Is he actually composing new stuff for these games? Then I stand corrected.

But, yeah. In the post you quoted I literally said I think it's ok to support Dragon Quest, because you can pick your battles. I don't know why you feel the need to keep repeating my points.

 

[mazillion]

Considering Jon either already got paid for it, or wasn't even paid at all, none of your money is going to him.

He runs a gaming channel, just being in a video game is benefiting him.

If you're just a kid trying to find gaming content to watch you're naturally going to be drawn to the person you heard was featured in a video game, it raises his status.

 

[MUnited83]

I don't like supporting products that feature racists in it. It's not solely a financial decision. It's literally the least I can do in a situation like this.

Which is fine. A lot different from wanting the entire game being banned fron NeoGAF discussions though. You can make your own purchase decisions with you own standards and your own money. What I'm against is banning a game from GAF for one minor VA role that was contracted/done before dude went all out edgelord, when there are games discussed in GAF that are literally made by similar edgelords.
I'm curious though, are you going to boycott Humble Bundle as well? They are the publishers of the game and haven't made any statement on it either.

 

[Tain]

Let it go, guys.

better idea: keep criticizing jontron on his bullshit whenever he comes up

 

[Malyse]

And yet another thread where a number of posters' opinions could be boiled down to "fuck you, got mine". It's astounding what people will give a pass because [reasons]. Yet every two weeks we get a thread about why video games have a negative stigma and/or image problem.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

I bet the device you used to post this message, was built with the suffering of underage kids or borderline slavery. And that is very much public information.

It is very different to bury your head under the sand, and other is where to draw the line. Do I get this expensive piece of hardware build by a borderline slave? Do I get those shoes that used child labor?

Another gotcha argument. Y'all never get tired of these.

I'm not naive. And i'm not hypocritical.

What?

 

[TriAceJP]

better idea: keep criticizing jontron on his bullshit whenever he comes up

Echochambering on GAF ain't gonna do much.

Just stop watching him. If people care about what he said, they will.

(People don't care and still watch him)

 

[SinCityAssassin]

I wonder if they just quietly replace jontron and they have an NDA that no one speaks of it 'till release.

 

[Alej]

I bet the device you used to post this message, was built with the suffering of underage kids or borderline slavery. And that is very much public information.

Thanks. Let them live the big life though.

Everything is covered by blood and extortion.

"Bu-bu-but, that guy is a racist."

Yeah, to all people in this thread, i have a statement to make. Your ancestors are more than likely to have been very bad people, to have commited a lot of crimes. Like killing indians. Or enslave people. So, in order. To condemn you all, i'll stop reading this thread. K? Thxbye.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Thanks. Let them live the big life though.

Everything is covered by blood and extortion.

"Bu-bu-but, that guy is a racist."

Yeah, to all people in this thread, i have a statement to make. Your ancestors are more than likely to have been very bad people, to have commited a lot of crimes. Like killing indians. Or enslave people. So, in order. To condemn you all, i'll stop reading this thread. K? Thxbye.

The ultimate gotcha holy fucking shit hahahahahahaha

 

[PrinnyBomb]

better idea: keep criticizing jontron on his bullshit whenever he comes up

But you aren't criticizing him. You're hurting a company that has no affiliation with him.

 

[Lulubop]

Echochambering on GAF ain't gonna do much.

Just stop watching him. If people care about what he said, they will.

(People don't care and still watch him)

I seem to remember you coming to bat for one these YouTube racist in the past, maybe catching a ban too. I don't really remember, can't look up post history atm.

 

[Merc_]

Thanks. Let them live the big life though.

Everything is covered by blood and extortion.

"Bu-bu-but, that guy is a racist."

Yeah, to all people in this thread, i have a statement to make. Your ancestors are more than likely to have been very bad people, to have commited a lot of crimes. Like killing indians. Or enslave people. So, in order. To condemn you all, i'll stop reading this thread. K? Thxbye.

lmao this fucking thread ahahahaha

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I can agree with that. They should definitely send out a statement, but near launch you have so much shit to worry about that you can forget about some stuff.

They've had half a year since Jon Tron had his meltdown.

 

[Machina]

But you aren't criticizing him. You're hurting a company that has no affiliation with him.

Exactly. It's not a statement, it's a vendetta.

 

[Mik317]

Did you work on this game or something? Why do you care so much about what other people do with their money?

no. I think it looks neat and harkens back to an age of gaming that I fuckin love. I'd like it to do well so there is more of it ala the 2d platformer boom fro a while back. It is heartbreaking to see it get ran through the mud because of one outside source is all.

but hey its a free board and I have no control over that so I'll just keep it to myself.

 

[kitchenmotors]

If you're really gonna go ahead with this pathetic holier-than-thou attitude, then please entertain us with the myriad ways in which Machina is single-handedly improving the world with his always on-point political protests on a daily basis.

Fuck off with this crap, man. People can exercise their right to protest and put forward their political views in whatever way they want, and you're in no position to question them.

Quoted for the fucking tea!