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[schwabdizzle]

Why is it okay to be upset about the kneeling?

Well, some people out there that served this country might be upset, and that is ok that they are upset. I understand the message but people might be offended and think there is a better time/ another way to protest police brutality.

 

[Faiz]

(Reads heartfelt letter about unity and trying to heal our nation)

You guys just as badly entrenched as those guys on r/the_donald. You don't get called out because you are on this side of the argument, but this attitude doesn't do jack shit to actually bridge the divide in our nation.

It is like looking at the mirror universe of an old person facebook feed. Just replace old person moral superiority with young person unyielding righteousness. I'm not saying that you aren't entitled to feel the way you do, I'm just saying it isn't fixing anything.

We will all be lowered into our graves feeling great about how principled we were.

Unity and healing is great.

But one side wants cops to stop murdering brown people and the other side wants them to STFU.

So like... what exactly is your solution Mr. "let go of principles so we can fix things"?

 

[Leunam]

Heartfelt and incredibly naive to the point of delusion.

Boogy pls

Precisely what I thought of first.

Where the fuck is the middle ground between the side of equality and justice and the side of white supremacy and systemic oppression?

 

[PBY]

Well, some people out there that served this country might be upset, and that is ok that they are upset. I understand the message but people might be offended and think there is a better time/ another way to protest police brutality. I look at it like people who are for kneeling be offended but someone standing, if that makes sense.

Its not okay. It has NOTHING to fucking do with them!

This is the worst take, and no - it doesn't make sense. If you're offended by a fucking knee (non-violent, doesn't even interrupt your game) - then you will never find any form of protest acceptable.

 

[boiled goose]

Not saying it will happen, but to resolve this, he should. Overall this is what I think of the whole situation of the protest for the national Anthem.

I am ok with Kaep and other players kneeling, locking arms, sitting, protesting, etc.
I am ok with people being upset about the kneeling.
I am ok with people not being upset about the kneeling.
I am not ok with Trump calling people names.

Funny you don't mention what protest was about in the first place.
Funny...

 

[Faiz]

Pretty limp.

Colin Kaepernick and President Trump should be the ones uniting our country together.​

This is meaningless and demonstrates such a staggering misunderstanding of Trump.

Not to mention the staggering power difference between the two.

 

[Kevtones]

Well intentioned but nope.

 

[BajiBoxer]

Not saying it will happen, but to resolve this, he should. Overall this is what I think of the whole situation of the protest for the national Anthem.

I am ok with Kaep and other players kneeling, locking arms, sitting, protesting, etc.
I am ok with people being upset about the kneeling.
I am ok with people not being upset about the kneeling.
I am not ok with Trump calling people names.

But it won't resolve anything. Trump is actively trying to ruin lives/kill of U.S. citizens and has sat down with far more influential people than Kaep. He can't even find middle ground with his own advisors, and slightly less overtly destructive white supremecists.

Also, there's a difference with accepting someone's constitutional right for those things, but not be ok with what they're doing or saying.

 

[schwabdizzle]

Its not okay. It has NOTHING to fucking do with them!

This is the worst take, and no - it doesn't make sense.

OK. calm down. I just understand how someone COULD be offended.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

Why don't we talk to the other side and reach a compromise?

Yeah, sure they enjoy seeing us dead, jailed or deported just because of the colour of our skin but let's be honest about this.

Let's negotiate and meet them in the middle because asking to be treated like a human being is just as extreme a position as marching with the KKK.

 

[boiled goose]

Well, some people out there that served this country might be upset, and that is ok that they are upset. I understand the message but people might be offended and think there is a better time/ another way to protest police brutality.

Yeah like protests on the street?

Black lives matters called terrorist hate group.

Please fucking tell me how to both effectively protest and not trigger snowflake right wingers by exercising Constitutional rights

Please tell me

 

[____]

Guy seems like he's not really paying attention.

 

[PBY]

OK. calm down. I just understand how someone COULD be offended.

I know what you meant - my point is that people taking offense is bullshit. Those people aren't offended at some theoretical protest against the "flag" or the military (the protest is not for them nor is it addressing them) - those people simply don't give a shit about the underlying cause and want black people to shut up.

Its just a cover for racism and a cheap deflection.

 

[Htown]

"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

MLK, Jr., Letter from Birmingham Jail

 

[schwabdizzle]

Funny you don't mention what protest was about in the first place.
Funny...

I can edit my post if it makes you feel better. I don't mind. I figured people knew what the protest was about by now. I have watch Shannon Sharpe talk about this alot.

 

[D1renegade]

Lol. To hell with this dude. These excerpts scream “both sides”.

I thought this Boyer person understood why Kap was protesting, but from what I’ve seen the letter doesn’t even mention the core issue. Now I wish Kap never compromised with the kneeling.

 

[Zolo]

I know what you meant - my point is that people taking offense is bullshit. Those people aren't offended at some theoretical protest against the "flag" or the military (the protest is not for them nor is it addressing them) - those people simply don't give a shit about the underlying cause and want black people to shut up.

Its just a cover for racism and a cheap deflection.

Yeah. The reason the NFL scene causes so much controversy is because it's popular with Republicans, and they get triggered seeing it.

 

[PBY]

I can edit my post if it makes you feel better. I don't mind. I figured people knew what the protest was about by now. I have watch Shannon Sharpe talk about this alot.

That's exactly our point!

Everyone knows what the protest is about. If you have issues with it, that means you don't give a shit about police brutality and racialized violence. Its not much more complicated than that.

 

[boiled goose]

OK. calm down. I just understand how someone COULD be offended.

Oh I understand it too. It's because there's a narrative that patriotism is white and conservative, when in fact it's people actually fighting for equality that are the patriots.

It's basically racism. Maybe not hateful kind, but the kind that questions patriotism simply because of skin color.

I can edit my post if it makes you feel better. I don't mind. I figured people knew what the protest was about by now. I have watch Shannon Sharpe talk about this alot.

Lol. It's not about making me feel better.

It simply illustrates the hypocrisy and deflection of those that are upset.

It's the equivalent of complaining about someone being mean to you when they're losing an argument.

 

[schwabdizzle]

Yeah like protests on the street?

Black lives matters called terrorist hate group.

Please fucking tell me how to both effectively protest and not trigger snowflake right wingers by exercising Constitutional rights

Please tell me

I wish I could. Unfortunately even peaceful protests during the national anthem gets backlash, that's why we are still talking about it. If I had an answer or anyone did this country would be in a lot better shape.

 

[The Ummah]

I can edit my post if it makes you feel better. I don't mind. I figured people knew what the protest was about by now. I have watch Shannon Sharpe talk about this alot.

That's the point though.

How can you possibly be against this protest, knowing the exact reason for it? (Not you, specifically)

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

OK. calm down. I just understand how someone COULD be offended.

Two types of people could be offended by kneeling during the anthem.

1) Racists

2) People too dumb or ignorant to understand why they're kneeling, because they're a bit racist and don't care about why they're kneeling

Neither of those groups deserves the benefit of any doubt.

 

[Horns]

He's right. I hate the other side. I've ended friendships and avoid family who voted for Trump. They were idiots and evil for doing this to us. Fuck them. And it's not going to ever change.

 

[LifEndz]

I mean this is "both sides" just very nicely worded.

Got motherfuckers marching with fire that want to exterminate myself and my wife and child and my president calling them very fine people. So forgive me if I pick a side on this one, champ.

Got cops straight up murdering folks with zero consequences. The opposite in fact. The full resources of the state comes to defend them. Mofos can be caught on tape saying "Im gonna kill" then kill and not get found guilty.

It's not that I hate "the right" it's just I hate the fact that mofos hate my guts and seek to push back against it. If folks were half as outraged at police brutality as they are at Kaepernick this wouldn't be a problem in America anymore.

Basically. I’m done with “but Kap shouldn’t have done (insert whatever bullshit here)” when the president is a white supremacist. And yes, I do hate the side the President praises. I do hate the people in his base. They are the scum of this country.

 

[ZOONAMI]

What a load of shit.

 

[boiled goose]

I wish I could. Unfortunately even peaceful protests during the national anthem gets backlash, that's why we are still talking about it. If I had an answer or anyone did this country would be in a lot better shape.

Ok... Right.

So... Why do people get upset? You said you understood why, so educate me.

 

[1upsuper]

Well, some people out there that served this country might be upset, and that is ok that they are upset. I understand the message but people might be offended and think there is a better time/ another way to protest police brutality.

The point is that the protest needs to be disruptive and striking -- because the whole point is to disrupt some bullshit that needs to go away. If protesters changed their method every time someone said "there has to be a better way" they'd have to protest by stopping at red lights or some equally mundane thing. Protests have to disrupt the status quo because that's the whole point of the protest.

 

[Akuun]

It doesn't actually read like "both sides" stuff to me. It's no secret that Dipshit's behavior is super polarizing and is only serving to divide the country. He makes a good point about the whole obsession with winning. A lot of people, especially on the republican side, care more about winning their side of the argument than they care about doing what's right for the populace. That's why they keep stubbornly holding to whatever stance their side takes, regardless of whether it hurts the people around them, or themselves. The original point of a multi-party government is to have different ideologies working together for a greater good. That went out the window decades ago, and now everyone just runs a blatantly us-vs-them mentality, even before it came to the current irreconcilable extremes we see today. It's not wrong to point that out.

Having said that, his suggestion does come across as overly idealistic to me. I don't think there is anything to be gained by talking to President Dipshit. Dipshit won't listen or understand anything said, and even if by some freak accident he does actually understand anything, it'll leave his head in five minutes at best. It won't affect anything in the long run. It also doesn't work on a moral level because discussion and compromise only works when both parties have an underlying point.

The whole kneeling thing was a valid compromise because the counterargument against sitting out the anthem was valid in that some people might think it was disrespectful. But the example doesn't carry over when one side is full of literal Nazis who want violence and death on everyone who isn't them, while the other side is basically going little more than "stop killing us." You can't exactly compromise with those two issues.

 

[perfectchaos007]

Ok... Right.

So... Why do people get upset? You said you understood why, so educate me.

Some people get upset because they think they are disrespecting our military and this is an attack on our veterans. I thought this was known

 

[Bits N Pieces]

When do we have to send in the U.N to America?

 

[Cybit]

What a load of gussied up "both sides" bullshit. He asked Colin to compromise once, and he did. Now he's asking him to compromise again? Reminds me of this:

Thank you for not reading the letter?

Feel like this guy has a pretty mixed message because he is either on the fence or trying to muddy the message. He says that Kaepernick was already in a middle ground compromise with kneeling instead of sitting (inviting a conversation). In saying that Trump and Kaep should meet that infers that it's on trump to do his part by going the rest of the way when Kaep already went half. But then...



... he derails that point a bit by saying we wants that conversation more than anything, BUT want's unity again more. I get the sentiment of wanting a conversation of dealing with this to happen which eventually leads to unity, but its hard not to separate this from the common sentiment we are seeing about "don't protest, that divides us" which is wrong unless you honestly believe there is no oppression. What makes it even harder to separate his words from that common point is that he makes no mention of injustices in his letter. I want to believe he's just naive and on the cusp of realizing the need for this and supporting it, but benefit of the doubt is hard to give out these days.



This is all a good point, but I wonder if he believes it's on both sides to compromise. One side is already compromising while the other is trashing them publicly and declaring war with them... I agree with the sentiment, but the actions required to make this happen comes from one party, and 1) There is no hint of that happening in sight and 2) I don't think this letter will help them make that choice. It will only give them ammo to tell the other side to compromise more...

I think if you don't get the context of Boyer / Kaep; it sounds like he's asking Kaep to compromise. The context of Boyer writing the letter is that he was the one who talked Kaep to compromise by kneeling (and compliments him for being willing to do it in the letter), and that now he wants Trump to move halfway as well and meet Kaep to talk about the issue. Which would give Kaep immense validation (he got the President of the United States to meet with him) and force the conversation to leave the realm of the football field (where Trump can conflate it with patriotism). Read the letter - he never asks Kaep to do anything except meet with Trump if Trump offered (which...I'm pretty damn sure Kaep would want if his goal is to talk about police brutality), and then puts the onus on Trump to meet with Kaep. I mean, his "compromise" is that Kaep and Trump would meet. Which is way more beneficial for Kaep than Trump.

I mean, he's pretty obviously not anti-protest, considering he is the one who got Kaep to kneel and then praised / praises Kaep for it.

 

[mlclmtckr]

I know what you meant - my point is that people taking offense is bullshit. Those people aren't offended at some theoretical protest against the "flag" or the military (the protest is not for them nor is it addressing them) - those people simply don't give a shit about the underlying cause and want black people to shut up.

Its just a cover for racism and a cheap deflection.

This is the thing. All of the hot button issues for the Right are based directly on racism. Troop worship, blue lives matterism, immigration panic, flag moralizing, it's all one hundred per cent directly about white supremacy.

That's why it's hard to take this guy seriously. How do you compromise with a dogwhistle? How do you ask people to give deference to plainly racist behaviour?

I understand that this guy is a Troop and that as a Troop he expects a certain level of pseudoreligious respect for his service at all times, but I don't subscribe to that line of thinking at all, especially if "respect my service" is synonymous with "give in to racists" like it currently is.

 

[TheOfficeMut]

I believe the author means well, but he is so incredibly ignorant despite that, it's astounding. You cannot equate meeting in the middle of a "stand or sit" situation where the outcome was kneeling to minorities having to reach across the isle and plead with their oppressors, specifically the police, to not kill them. Where do you meet in the middle with that?

It's disingenuous and infuriating. Minorities are trying to have a discussion. They're trying to simply start it. But they're not the side preventing it from happening. The people reacting so adversely to a simple knee are the ones to blame. Continuing to equate the two sides as if they're just as guilty as one another is some bullshit and I'll never agree with this "both sides" criticism. This has no merit.

 

[Mesoian]

Well, some people out there that served this country might be upset, and that is ok that they are upset. I understand the message but people might be offended and think there is a better time/ another way to protest police brutality.

Oh for fuck's sake.

Some people get upset because they think they are disrespecting our military and this is an attack on our veterans. I thought this was known

Those people are literally trying to sway the issue. Those people who say, "it disrespects are troops" are SILENT when people bring up the murders of black men and women by police.

Fucking SILENT.

 

[schwabdizzle]

Ok... Right.

So... Why do people get upset? You said you understood why, so educate me.

Like is said, if some served the country or had a family member do it. I think that is logically an explanation. That's just my take on why someone could have a reasonable explanation if you want to consider it reasonable.

 

[PBY]

Thank you for not reading the letter?



I think if you don't get the context of Boyer / Kaep; it sounds like he's asking Kaep to compromise. The context of Boyer writing the letter is that he was the one who talked Kaep to compromise by kneeling (and compliments him for being willing to do it in the letter), and that now he wants Trump to move halfway as well and meet Kaep to talk about the issue. Which would give Kaep immense validation (he got the President of the United States to meet with him) and force the conversation to leave the realm of the football field (where Trump can conflate it with patriotism). Read the letter - he never asks Kaep to do anything except meet with Trump if Trump offered (which...I'm pretty damn sure Kaep would want if his goal is to talk about police brutality), and then puts the onus on Trump to meet with Kaep. I mean, his "compromise" is that Kaep and Trump would meet. Which is way more beneficial for Kaep than Trump.

I mean, he's pretty obviously not anti-protest, considering he is the one who got Kaep to kneel and then praised / praises Kaep for it.

I think its bullshit that he even asked Kaep to compromise, and clearly doesn't understand the broader issues and forces at play. Thinking that sitting down with Trump, a white supremacist, to hammer out some sort of deal is the path forward is a nonsense fantasy.

 

[The Ummah]

Like is said, if some served the country or had a family member do it. I think that is logically an explanation. That's just my take on why someone could have a reasonable explanation if you want to consider it reasonable.

Some people get upset because they think they are disrespecting our military and this is an attack on our veterans. I thought this was known

It's not about the flag/military/anthem. So, what now?

 

[Stinkles]

Here are all the sides:

1. Athletes and others, peacefully expressing their first amendment rights to protest an indisputable evil and the senseless killing of black people by an ungoverned, poorly trained police force.

2. White people who take the above as a personal affront because they're racist or stupid and gullible.

3. Actual nazis and white supremacists.

4. Politicians gleefully harnessing the energy of racism they themselves fomented.


Only one of these sides is morally correct and ethically defensible. I'm going to be charitable and say maybe there's a fifth - blindly patriotic idiots who don't understand the constitution or history but aren't actually racist. Just stupid as shit.

 

[PBY]

Like is said, if some served the country or had a family member do it. I think that is logically an explanation. That's just my take on why someone could have a reasonable explanation if you want to consider it reasonable.

It. Has. Nothing. To. Do. With. Them.

Its not logical. Its just fucking racist.

 

[boiled goose]

Some people get upset because they think they are disrespecting our military and this is an attack on our veterans. I thought this was known

It's the same bullshit as blue lives matter.

Saying dont kill black people means you hate cops.

I know THAT'S WHAT THEY CLAIM. I honestly don't buy it. It's classic "know your place" racism. They are just getting triggered by black people asking for equality.

Black people have been called disruptors, agitators, unpatriotic, pushy, etc. Every single time equality is demanded. It's nothing new.

 

[Mesoian]

Like is said, if some served the country or had a family member do it. I think that is logically an explanation. That's just my take on why someone could have a reasonable explanation if you want to consider it reasonable.

It's not reasonable.

It's not even the issue. It's what's people tried to make the issue about when they didn't want to talk about Black murders.

It's like arguing that we can fund our health care system by deporting the Chinese. It's two completely different issues.

 

[hipbabboom]

A long walk around "both sides" avenue.

That's all I got from it.

 

[theWB27]

Another had thread with peeps telling those who want more equality that their cause and not willingness to give in helps create a divide.

 

[Mesoian]

That's all I got from it.

That's all it is.

The only thing that would happen if Kaep and Trump were in a room together is that Trump would say some dumb shit, walk out, and his supporters would eat it up, FURTHER MAKING THE ISSUE ABOUT TRUMP INSTEAD OF ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE BEING MURDERED BY POLICE.

Another had thread with peeps telling those who want more equality that their cause and not willingness to give in helps create a divide.

"No shut up though. Things are fine, shut up."

 

[cdyhybrid]

Thank you for not reading the letter?



I think if you don't get the context of Boyer / Kaep; it sounds like he's asking Kaep to compromise. The context of Boyer writing the letter is that he was the one who talked Kaep to compromise by kneeling (and compliments him for being willing to do it in the letter), and that now he wants Trump to move halfway as well and meet Kaep to talk about the issue. Which would give Kaep immense validation (he got the President of the United States to meet with him) and force the conversation to leave the realm of the football field (where Trump can conflate it with patriotism). Read the letter - he never asks Kaep to do anything except meet with Trump if Trump offered (which...I'm pretty damn sure Kaep would want if his goal is to talk about police brutality), and then puts the onus on Trump to meet with Kaep. I mean, his "compromise" is that Kaep and Trump would meet. Which is way more beneficial for Kaep than Trump.

I mean, he's pretty obviously not anti-protest, considering he is the one who got Kaep to kneel and then praised / praises Kaep for it.

That's the point. Kaep already compromised by taking a knee. And he got shit on for it. So he's asking Kaep to compromise further while the other side is actively moving away instead of coming towards the middle.

 

[Violater]

The country was always divided and hateful.
You are right, its not about kneeling or the flag, its about minorities being killed in the streets without repercussion. But its easier to focus on the form of protest than the reason for protesting in the first place.
KC can go ahead and sit with him but nothing will change, if anything it will be played off as if everything is ok and no one needs to be "kneeling" anymore "what protest amirite".

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

If both sides stopped using hyperbolic and exaggerated claims on what the "other side" is doing, that would be a start.

Can you tell me what are these two sides?

 

[Foggy]

Football man sits in protest

Army man asks for compromise in protest

Football man then compromises and is met with callous vitriol

A year later, army man is distressed by the anger and pleads that the football man compromises with someone who fanned the flames of anger

Cool army man, cool

 

[Saint Gregory]

I mean this is "both sides" just very nicely worded.

Got motherfuckers marching with fire that want to exterminate myself and my wife and child and my president calling them very fine people. So forgive me if I pick a side on this one, champ.

Got cops straight up murdering folks with zero consequences. The opposite in fact. The full resources of the state comes to defend them. Mofos can be caught on tape saying "Im gonna kill" then kill and not get found guilty.

It's not that I hate "the right" it's just I hate the fact that mofos hate my guts and seek to push back against it. If folks were half as outraged at police brutality as they are at Kaepernick this wouldn't be a problem in America anymore.

I was going to write out a long response to the OP bit this post covers just about everything I was going to say.

I appreciate this guy's sacrifice by serving but that doesn't give him or anyone else a right to tell people how to protest or to tell them to hold hands with their oppressors.

 

[boiled goose]

Like is said, if some served the country or had a family member do it. I think that is logically an explanation. That's just my take on why someone could have a reasonable explanation if you want to consider it reasonable.

Ok. As said a million times.

Someone says this:
Not about that. It's about black people getting murdered. Same as flying flag half mast when tragedy happens. Inequality in our country and injustice is a tragedy.

Now what?