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[boiled goose]

It's not just my family though. It's a large swath of this country. My family is from a deep blue state. They aren't typical ignorant uneducated rednecks. I mean yea I think they are racist too but they kind of don't fit the profile of a typical Trump supporter.

Oh I know

If they are older whites, they kinda already do...

Christian? More so.

 

[PBY]

(Reads heartfelt letter about unity and trying to heal our nation)











You guys just as badly entrenched as those guys on r/the_donald. You don't get called out because you are on this side of the argument, but this attitude doesn't do jack shit to actually bridge the divide in our nation.

It is like looking at the mirror universe of an old person facebook feed. Just replace old person moral superiority with young person unyielding righteousness. I'm not saying that you aren't entitled to feel the way you do, I'm just saying it isn't fixing anything.

We will all be lowered into our graves feeling great about how principled we were.

Its not my job to "explain" to someone that systemic, racialized police abuse is bad. Sorry if that's divisive.

 

[cdyhybrid]

(Reads heartfelt letter about unity and trying to heal our nation)











You guys just as badly entrenched as those guys on r/the_donald. You don't get called out because you are on this side of the argument, but this attitude doesn't do jack shit to actually bridge the divide in our nation.

It is like looking at the mirror universe of an old person facebook feed. Just replace old person moral superiority with young person unyielding righteousness. I'm not saying that you aren't entitled to feel the way you do, I'm just saying it isn't fixing anything.

We will all be lowered into our graves feeling great about how principled we were.

Heartfelt and incredibly naive to the point of delusion.

Boogy pls

 

[Chmpocalypse]

It's not just my family though. It's a large swath of this country. My family is from a deep blue state. They aren't typical ignorant uneducated rednecks. I mean yea I think they are racist too but they kind of don't fit the profile of a typical Trump supporter.

But they're still objectively wrong on the facts.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

You guys just as badly entrenched as those guys on r/the_donald. You don't get called out because you are on this side of the argument, but this attitude doesn't do jack shit to actually bridge the divide in our nation.

One side wants to murder people because of their skin color.

 

[WarLox]

Honestly, fuck all of this.

Kaep should have just sat, who gives a fuck how a random white soldier thinks black people should protest.

It even starts with an MLK quote lol.

I'm pretty sure the only thing black people want to win is not getting shot by police.

A long walk around "both sides" avenue.


I am sure dude is a good guy. But nah brah, nah

What is the middle ground of "Police shouldn't murder people"?

What's the common ground between being shot for your skin colour and not being shot for your skin colour?

How do we "come together" if one side is saying

"Hey the cops are killing us for things that aren't justifiable uses of force"

and the other side is saying

"Fuck you, all lives matter. Every cop killing is justified. You weren't there. Being a cop is hard. They wanna go home to their families."

How certain folks turned a sitting protest about police brutality into people 'disrespecting' the military is amazing.

Everything that i wanted to say has already beed said. Lol

 

[CopperPuppy]

What a load of gussied up "both sides" bullshit. He asked Colin to compromise once, and he did. Now he's asking him to compromise again? Reminds me of this:

 

[Johndoey]

I refuse to go out of my way to find common ground with people who have clearly shown they don't have much of an issue seeing people who look like me murdered in cold blood on a daily basis by our "protectors".

 

[schwabdizzle]

Exactly, the next move is all Trump's. But good luck waiting for him to show humility by apologizing to Kaepernick for calling him a SOB and sitting down to discuss their differences. You'll be waiting till the day Trump dies.

I agree, if they want to sit down, Trump needs to apologize for the name calling.

 

[BajiBoxer]

Let me just say the blanket statements need to stop. Saying all police are bad and complicit, all republicans are nazi's/white supremacists etc.

This is what drives the non-racist, anti police brutality republicans nuts.

If you vote Republican this is your fault. The Republican party votes as a block for racist laws, policies, and measures. This is 100% on the shoulders of every god damn Republican voter out there. The only exceptions are the few RINO voters out there who no longer vote Republican, but simply haven't bothered to change their registration.

 

[EGM1966]

TBH more than anything what I came away from is th big L IS needs to take that it’s not “better than this” inherently nor are Americans naturally “winners”. It’s so baked into US society but it’s a falsehood borne out f circumstance and context of Us growth.

America is just a patch of land and Americans are just people without any inherent advantages over anyone else.

The letter feels honest and written from the heart but betrays the cultural imperatives that over time are bound to unravel US unless they are accepted and come to terms with.

 

[boiled goose]

(Reads heartfelt letter about unity and trying to heal our nation)


You guys just as badly entrenched as those guys on r/the_donald. You don't get called out because you are on this side of the argument, but this attitude doesn't do jack shit to actually bridge the divide in our nation.

It is like looking at the mirror universe of an old person facebook feed. Just replace old person moral superiority with young person unyielding righteousness. I'm not saying that you aren't entitled to feel the way you do, I'm just saying it isn't fixing anything.

We will all be lowered into our graves feeling great about how principled we were.

Tell me what the bridge looks like here.
Tell me what the middle ground looks like.

Tell me which side moves where and how

Please.
Please tell me.

 

[weekev]

I’m sure folks on the left would welcome some discourse. Those on the right seem unwilling to engage in reasonable discussion however.

 

[JB1981]

But they're still objectively wrong on the facts.

I understand that but good luck trying to persuade them of that fact.

 

[GamerJM]

Stop radical centrists 2017

 

[Chmpocalypse]

I understand that but good luck trying to persuade them of that fact.

I have no time to convince them. I'll instead support the vast, vast majority in the world that understand the reality.

 

[Slayven]

There is no middle ground because the people that are wrong keep moving the goal posts.

Kaep told you why he was kneeling, but somehow the military and flag are involved.

There is no good faith because they know exactly what the argument is about, but they don't want to admit how fucked up America is.

 

[boiled goose]

I understand that but good luck trying to persuade them of that fact.

How to persuade people they are objectively wrong is a valid strategic question.

That's different from finding a middle ground though.

 

[Mizerman]

(Reads heartfelt letter about unity and trying to heal our nation)











You guys just as badly entrenched as those guys on r/the_donald. You don't get called out because you are on this side of the argument, but this attitude doesn't do jack shit to actually bridge the divide in our nation.

It is like looking at the mirror universe of an old person facebook feed. Just replace old person moral superiority with young person unyielding righteousness. I'm not saying that you aren't entitled to feel the way you do, I'm just saying it isn't fixing anything.

We will all be lowered into our graves feeling great about how principled we were.

I would rather be lowered into my grave than to stand by your "side." Naive as hell.

 

[Extra Sauce]

So what would be the compromise in this case, we're only going to allow cops to summarily execute black folks on even-numbered days?

 

[platocplx]

Let me just say the blanket statements need to stop. Saying all police are bad and complicit, all republicans are nazi's/white supremacists etc.

This is what drives the non-racist, anti police brutality republicans nuts.

They are complicit and republicans are either complicit to white supremacy or are white supremacists. Can you explain why most of elected republican officials are nearly all white? They literally are the party of white people.

Then why were they against the civil rights act in 1964 and then so hell bent on removing rights for people of color and/or participate in gerrymandering etc.

You need to wake up and realize there are deep deep racial issues within the republican party and MOST people in the US vote based on racial lines more than any other issue.

Its clear you are uncomfortable with the reality of the republican party. Which is they have been using racially coded rhetoric for decades to influence voters based on their own hatred and\or to maintain a power structure in this country.

Check out the book called Dog Whistle Politics: How Coded Racial Appeals Have Reinvented Racism and Wrecked the Middle Class Its deep rooted and has been for decades. So yes its as serious as it is and being complicit is just as bad as being the one pulling the trigger.

 

[FreezeSSC]

Right cares about winning, left cares about peoples actual lives.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Can't convince people if they aren't open to learning.

The objective proof is all there and has been there forever. Some people just believe what they want.

 

[finowns]

I agree, if they want to sit down, Trump needs to apologize for the name calling.

There shouldn’t be a sit down with Trump he isn’t rational. He’s chaotically irrational.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

It's pretty clear Trump will not listen to anyone about anything so why would this be any different?

 

[Mick Swagger]

getting tired of all this unity bullshit

yes there is a line drawn in the sand

yes if you are on a certain side of it you are wrong and probably a fuck head

no the other side does not need to compromise

there is no joining in the middle. equality for all is not something to compromise on even if there is a group of people against it.

this fucking fallacy that because two sides exist the solution is compromise

no

One and done.

 

[old manatee]

What issues should we compromise on with Republicans at this point? Health care? The environment? Gay marriage? Tax breaks for the wealthy? All of their policies are designed to fuck over a large swathe of people.

 

[Zolo]

(Reads heartfelt letter about unity and trying to heal our nation)

You guys just as badly entrenched as those guys on r/the_donald. You don't get called out because you are on this side of the argument, but this attitude doesn't do jack shit to actually bridge the divide in our nation.

It is like looking at the mirror universe of an old person facebook feed. Just replace old person moral superiority with young person unyielding righteousness. I'm not saying that you aren't entitled to feel the way you do, I'm just saying it isn't fixing anything.

We will all be lowered into our graves feeling great about how principled we were.

In some cases, the person's killed.

"The hottest place in Hell is reserved for those who remain neutral in times of great moral conflict." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

[sflufan]

I can only imagine the amount of self-congratulatory backpatting that's going on at ESPN over this letter. I hope they don't break their arms in the process!

 

[linkboy]

“Shut up and be grateful you get to live here, negro.”

Exactly. That's basically what white conservative people are telling minorities. This isn't your country and we allow you to live here. Know your place and there won't be any problems, understand.

If fucking disgusting and pisses me off big time.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Nope

 

[The Ummah]

There is no middle ground because the people that are wrong keep moving the goal posts.

Kaep told you why he was kneeling, but somehow the military and flag are involved.

There is no good faith because they know exactly what the argument is about, but they don't want to admit how fucked up America is.

Exactly.

"Please stop killing us."

"Stop disrespecting my flag."

"I'm an American also."

"I said stop disrespecting my flag."

Sure, let's all meet up in the middle and talk this out now.

 

[CopperPuppy]

(Reads heartfelt letter about unity and trying to heal our nation)











You guys just as badly entrenched as those guys on r/the_donald. You don't get called out because you are on this side of the argument, but this attitude doesn't do jack shit to actually bridge the divide in our nation.

It is like looking at the mirror universe of an old person facebook feed. Just replace old person moral superiority with young person unyielding righteousness. I'm not saying that you aren't entitled to feel the way you do, I'm just saying it isn't fixing anything.

We will all be lowered into our graves feeling great about how principled we were.

Saying GAF is t_d - I've fucking seen it all now. Do you prefer your fences chain link or white picket? The latter seems like it'd make for an uncomfortable seat.

How's it feel to be making this sucka's argument:

 

[The Kree]

I don't want to compromise with white supremacy. So, now what?

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I understand that but good luck trying to persuade them of that fact.

I've been having a year long discussion with a friends father on the subject. Very conservative man. There's no argument that can be used anymore. Until we've gotten rid of Fox News and conservative media in general, no dialog can be had.

You'll end the discussion on a conciliatory note. "I may not agree, but it's his right." And within a few days you're back at square one. Because conservative media, and Trump by extension, have no interest in healing divides. They profit on the divisions.

 

[schwabdizzle]

There shouldn’t be a sit down with Trump he isn’t rational. He’s chaotically irrational.

Not saying it will happen, but to resolve this, he should. Overall this is what I think of the whole situation of the protest for the national Anthem.

I am ok with Kaep and other players kneeling, locking arms, sitting, protesting, etc.
I am ok with people being upset about the kneeling.
I am ok with people not being upset about the kneeling.
I am not ok with Trump calling people names.

 

[ClosingADoor]

In most situations I'd agree. You talk to each other and work things out. But this is only possible when both parties are willing to do so. And in this case, Trump and his people are clearly not interested in working something out that is good for everyone. So how do you even start to talk to them. The problems are about issues where there is an actual right and wrong and a line should be drawn.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

haha of course there are people falling for the "unity" nonsense. Come on guys...

 

[Litan]

Not saying it will happen, but to resolve this, he should. Overall this is what I think of the whole situation of the protest for the national Anthem.

I am ok with Kaep and other players kneeling, locking arms, sitting, protesting, etc.
I am ok with people being upset about the kneeling.
I am ok with people not being upset about the kneeling.
I am not ok with Trump calling people names.

Why is it okay to be upset about the kneeling?

 

[BajiBoxer]

(Reads heartfelt letter about unity and trying to heal our nation)











You guys just as badly entrenched as those guys on r/the_donald. You don't get called out because you are on this side of the argument, but this attitude doesn't do jack shit to actually bridge the divide in our nation.

It is like looking at the mirror universe of an old person facebook feed. Just replace old person moral superiority with young person unyielding righteousness. I'm not saying that you aren't entitled to feel the way you do, I'm just saying it isn't fixing anything.

We will all be lowered into our graves feeling great about how principled we were.

People like yourself are real big on pushing some middle ground you are incapable of arguing for, or even articulating what that middle ground is. Lots of specifics are given on why this middle ground is bullshit, so maybe you should address them specifically.

 

[LegendofJoe]

I’m sure folks on the left would welcome some discourse. Those on the right seem unwilling to engage in reasonable discussion however.

Yeah, it's hard to have a discussion when one side of the aisle lives in a fantasy world where global warming and systemic racial discrimination in the justice system don't exist. And that healthcare best functions in a purely market based system depite no such system being in existence anywhere else in the world. Truth to them is what they want it to be, they are children that are too frightened of reality to live in it.

 

[platocplx]

What issues should we compromise on with Republicans at this point? Health care? The environment? Gay marriage? Tax breaks for the wealthy? All of their policies are designed to fuck over a large swathe of people.

i'd really love to hear answers to this. Because what has happened for decades is that Bills with any teeth get broken so much that they either A:Marginally change things or B: Dont do things well at all and just are just looking to be repealed.

The worst of it has been the ACA which when first presented was great then tons and tons of hands got into it and many things were taken away to satisfy republicans then to the point they wasted so much time trying repeal it.

Until Republicans can act in good faith there is nothing to talk about.

 

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

How in the world does it make any sense at all to ask a just cause to move towards ignorance and oppression just so that ignorance and oppression can feel better about things? Why bother even having a society that values equality and justice. What are you even fighting for.

 

[PBY]

Not saying it will happen, but to resolve this, he should. Overall this is what I think of the whole situation of the protest for the national Anthem.

I am ok with Kaep and other players kneeling, locking arms, sitting, protesting, etc.
I am ok with people being upset about the kneeling.
I am ok with people not being upset about the kneeling.
I am not ok with Trump calling people names.

Re the bolded - then you're either an idiot who doesn't understand protest or an asshole who disagrees with the protest.

Sorry, no option 3.

 

[Rorschach]

Relevant:

I need to get a desk that can withstand a pounding. This glass desk thing has totally backfired on me.

 

[Brakke]

Pretty limp.

Colin Kaepernick and President Trump should be the ones uniting our country together.​

This is meaningless and demonstrates such a staggering misunderstanding of Trump.

 

[midramble]

Earlier this week I sat down with a group of five Combat Arms and Special Operations Veterans. The round table discussed our individual feelings on the flag, the anthem, and the players who knelt when it was played. We all had very different takes, but what surprised me most at the end of the discussion was that we all agreed on one thing. Colin Kaepernick and President Trump should be the ones uniting our country together. Wait...what? I know it sounds crazy, but maybe that's exactly what we need to see. Maybe that's how we start to heal. Two men sit in a room and talk, simple as that.

That's how it all started with Colin and I, neither of us knew that kneeling would be the result of our conversation. Colin wanted to sit, I wanted him to stand, and so we found a common ground on a knee alongside his teammates. I believe that progress and real change happens in this world when you reach across the divide, you build a bridge, you swallow your pride, you open your mind, you embrace what you don't understand, and ultimately you surrender.

Feel like this guy has a pretty mixed message because he is either on the fence or trying to muddy the message. He says that Kaepernick was already in a middle ground compromise with kneeling instead of sitting (inviting a conversation). In saying that Trump and Kaep should meet that infers that it's on trump to do his part by going the rest of the way when Kaep already went half. But then...

Now I don't pretend to speak for everyone who fought overseas, many veterans rightfully disagree with my position. But I do feel that I echo the sentiments of most war fighters when I say that what we hope for more than anything right now in America is unity. To deploy overseas, train, live with, fight alongside, and ultimately defend foreigners that you have little in common with is truly a challenging task. But returning home to a country that is so divided, so judgmental, and so hateful of one another is almost as difficult to deal with as burying a fallen comrade. In fact we're still losing our brothers in arms overseas right now and it's hardly mentioned it in the media; but that's OK, we don't risk our lives and sacrifice so much for fanfare or recognition. It's not at all why we do what we do. We do what we do because you are worth it, because we love you.

I would love for those two leaders to have that conversation, but more than anything I just want us to love one another again. One great thing about freedom is that you get to choose everyday how you treat your neighbor. This IS the best country in the world, but we can always do better. I'm laying it all out there because I have to, I swore to defend this land and its people, and I will die trying. I know some people will hate this (we love to hate things these days), and I'll get called a disgrace to the Green Beret once again. But I don't care, the United States means more to me than any of that.

... he derails that point a bit by saying we wants that conversation more than anything, BUT want's unity again more. I get the sentiment of wanting a conversation of dealing with this to happen which eventually leads to unity, but its hard not to separate this from the common sentiment we are seeing about "don't protest, that divides us" which is wrong unless you honestly believe there is no oppression. What makes it even harder to separate his words from that common point is that he makes no mention of injustices in his letter. I want to believe he's just naive and on the cusp of realizing the need for this and supporting it, but benefit of the doubt is hard to give out these days.

So please, no more lines in the sand, not at home, not among our people. No more choosing sides, no more "for or against." I believe our Veterans will be called upon to lead the way in healing the world and solving its problems; right now our country needs that more than I can remember. So I'll be here, standing in the radical middle, doing what I can to continue fighting for those that can't fight for themselves. Let's get this thing fixed together, you and me. I love you all with all my heart.

This is all a good point, but I wonder if he believes it's on both sides to compromise. One side is already compromising while the other is trashing them publicly and declaring war with them... I agree with the sentiment, but the actions required to make this happen comes from one party, and 1) There is no hint of that happening in sight and 2) I don't think this letter will help them make that choice. It will only give them ammo to tell the other side to compromise more...

Re the bolded - then you're either an idiot who doesn't understand protest or an asshole who disagrees with the protest.

Sorry, no option 3.

I'm upset that we've fucked up as a nation to the point where kneeling is necessary. I'm upset that people rightfully hate America.

I guess that's why I get some of the sentiment. I've also been there on the runway overseas saluting caskets with the flag draped over it as surviving family members are listed. As a result I do get cheezily teary eyed during the anthem and when watching the flag because to me it represents that all people in our nation and the fight for their inalienable rights are worth dying for. Worth leaving behind a family for. It is for that same reason that I will always support those who are kneeling representing the fact that at home, people are not defending those rights. That we are abusing our own citizens. People die in other countries to defend the people that are being murdered here. Every person that denounces this kneeling movement is dishonoring what those people died for. The kneeling should be upsetting. That's the point. If kneeling didn't matter to me, it wouldn't be that strong of a message.

 

[uncredited male]

Meet Trump on live TV and take him apart.

 

[thehypocrite]

This isn't a work disagreement.

 

[Nokagi]

Trump isn't reasonable. Sitting down with him is pointless. He'll tell you one thing then say the exact opposite the next day.