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[Gravy Boat]

Don't do what, exactly? Speak your opinion or point out the flaws in mine.

Why are you trying to defend someone who has been accused of (and in the past admitted to ) committing sexual assault? It's one thing to understand that one persons actions don't reflect the wider community and still think Gaf is a fine place to post, but it's another entirely to defend someone who has literally admitted to sexually assaulting someone in the past.

 

[Gormenghast]

Both sides, right?

This pure rhetoric is what is breeding hate across the WHOLE political spectrum. This stupidity is the only thing that truly unifies all of us.

Neither side is usually right because the world is more complex than binary categories. Every group tends to have a number of good arguments and a number of bad ones. Yet there's this push to never go into the details, but simply putting convenient labels so that we can quickly move to the "executing sentence" phase.

This is what is broken: reducing every discussion to two factions in a war. It only breeds hostility.

And the way to fix that isn't easy because it requires more work than reducing everything to simple categories.

You should never target the person, the group, the hashtag or the flag. You should target the specific behavior, argument or idea.

If a person does something wrong, you should blame the act, not the person. If a group promotes awful ideas, you should point at the ideas and what's wrong with them, not the group.

But yeah, the world is already in a death spiral of hate, and we all know it's only getting worse and we can't do anything about it. Because it's much easier and convenient to think in simple categories.

 

[johnny956]

Those people didn't tolerate different opinions, that's the whole point, no matter how little they differed from theirs.

If those people are gone, maybe this site will be worth discussing in again.


Why would I care? I left this forum, so it was like it didn't exist to me. If those 7000 people leaving makes this place worthwhile again, I'm happy about it. It's not my problem.

When the hell did you leave? Your post history is available for all to see so not sure what point you are trying to get across.

 

[Clockwork]

it's another entirely to defend someone who has literally admitted to sexually assaulting someone in the past.

"Assault"

 

[Glass Joe]

Keep losing, Joe.

Your recent post history tells a tale of you quietly complaining but without stirring up the pot. Why not say what you really feel about the situation in a clear, articulate manner? Tell me WHY I'm losing for expressing what I've observed, for example. If you did, maybe we could actually have a conversation.

 

[Wireframe]

If anything this is just generating more traffic for the site. We probably lost about 4-5 % of the registered users by my reckoning. (7k of 195k is 3.6 % assuming most of them went to the new forum).

 

[nivorae]

Guess I need to post this again since there are some people who seem to have already forgotten after 2 page. Wow, how the mind slips!

"Allegedly"

Opening admitting to sexually assaulting someone(then banning anyone who called him out for it)

Posting revenge porn with their real full names then another admin(a now jailed pedophile) printed the photos and jacked off over them and sent it to the boyfriend.

You're right, how can we even know if he's guilty or not? HMMMM

Also:

Conviction to condemn people with out of context images and no proof. Fuck these "ethics"

maybe if it was an isolated allegation. You're guilty until proven otherwise by any legal system anyway.

 

[ilbambino]

A lot have left, some have stayed, some will come. Will it be the same as before? I guess not, but judging from the people who have left and the way they have left, i don't know how they can be valuable assets for the new forum. I guess i will stay here and see how everything develops.

 

[Gravy Boat]

"Assault"

I didn't define the phrase, but grabbing someones ass to assert that you are not a drink buying machine and to show your sexual interest is sexual assault, going off the recognised definition.

 

[Sephzilla]

Those people didn't tolerate different opinions, that's the whole point, no matter how little they differed from theirs.

I'm curious what your "different opinions" are, then.

 

[BuckyBabbs]

What's kinda amazing is all the people crying that "the site is ruined/ don't waste your breath/ its never gonna be good again/ I'm done here/ etc" are still here, ANNNNND they keep, posting posts about how they are done and then post more about how awful the site is and then well yuppppppp ........they still here.
Fucking Lol'able man.

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

If anything this is just generating more traffic for the site. We probably lost about 4-5 % of the registered users by my reckoning. (7k of 195k is 3.6 % assuming most of them went to the new forum).

There were not 200k active users here by a long shot. Maybe 8-10k. Maybe.

 

[johnny956]

If anything this is just generating more traffic for the site. We probably lost about 4-5 % of the registered users by my reckoning. (7k of 195k is 3.6 % assuming most of them went to the new forum).

There are plenty waiting to get into the new site. Myself included so I'd imagine that number will continue to climb

 

[ZeoVGM]

They remained friends and continued to hang out. They even had consentual sex not long after the fact. To me, that's the nail in the coffin. She obviously didn't find it all that weird if she continued the friendship, and into a sexual role.

I would suggest reading up on sexual harassment and the impact it can have on the victims.

The other problem is the history of issues leading up to this accusation.

 

[CelticKnight]

A lot have left, some have stayed, some will come. Will it be the same as before? I guess not, but judging from the people who have left and the way they have left, i don't know how they can be valuable assets for the new forum. I guess i will stay here and see how everything develops.

You do realise that the majority of people who left went quietly?

 

[Clockwork]

I didn't define the phrase, but grabbing someones ass to assert that you are not a drink buying machine and to show your sexual interest is sexual assault, going off the recognised definition.

So an ass grab and a misread situation with no physical contact that two people were able to resolve privately...

Nice.

The other problem is the history of issues leading up to this accusation.

Essentially irrational people being irrational then. Pretty much what the OP said.

 

[Apath]

And also leaving a forum because of one dude is weird to me. I'm sorry, it just is. Pretty sure everyone likes things created by shitty people.

And don't get the asking for a ban threads. Just log out and leave. Not that hard. Just seems like "look at me!!".

Just go.

They're doing it to send a message. When people protest shitty work conditions, they don't just stay home and not go to work. They stand outside to demonstrate and give themselves exposure.

 

[Simbabbad]

When the hell did you leave? Your post history is available for all to see so not sure what point you are trying to get across.

That I participated a lot, and then stopped? Only checking only once in a while, shaking my head, and then leaving again?

Normal people stop going to a forum they think is toxic, they don't make a big thread about it or get themselves banned. Especially when you can't delete your account.

As for my point, I think it's pretty clear and couldn't get any more obvious.

I'm curious what your "different opinions" are, then.

I love the menacing undertones. So typical. What's funny is it's a perfect example of what I was talking about.

When people protest shitty work conditions, they don't just stay home and not go to work.

Except those people aren't. They are/were customers of a free product, they're not entering into Resistance of something. Not exactly Che Guevara.

 

[RPGCrazied]

They're doing it to send a message. When people protest shitty work conditions, they don't just stay home and not go to work. They stand outside to demonstrate and give themselves exposure.

Then do it in the state of gaf thread. No need to clutter up the forum.

 

[Gravy Boat]

I would suggest reading up on sexual harassment and the impact it can have on the victims.

The other problem is the history of issues leading up to this accusation.

"She consented one time so obviously she consented EVERY other time!"

It's terrifying that people actually believe that.

So an ass grab and a misread situation with no physical contact that two people were able to resolve privately...

Nice.

https://www.swarthmore.edu/share/what-sexual-assault.

He grabbed her sexually without her consent.
How do you grabs someones ass with no physical contact? I guess I should be shocked that somehow people are defending that but I'm not, which is even worse.

 

[Mahadev]

I would suggest reading up on sexual harassment and the impact it can have on the victims.

The other problem is the history of issues leading up to this accusation.

I suggest you do the same. You're acting as if this is a traumatized rape victim.

 

[Royce McCutcheon]

I would suggest reading up on sexual harassment and the impact it can have on the victims.

The other problem is the history of issues leading up to this accusation.

In her own words she said she continued a relationship with him because she was already invited to E3. Such dramatization

 

[dolabla]

Those people didn't tolerate different opinions, that's the whole point, no matter how little they differed from theirs.

If those people are gone, maybe this site will be worth discussing in again.


Why would I care? I left this forum, so it was like it didn't exist to me. If those 7000 people leaving makes this place worthwhile again, I'm happy about it. It's not my problem.

Bingo!

Hopefully this more board moves in the direction of having many people with different povs (liberal, conservative, moderate). I like to read peoples different beliefs.

 

[Apath]

Then do it in the state of gaf thread. No need to clutter up the forum.

More exposure, just like how those BLM protestors shut down a freeway.

You can think it's stupid and attention grabbing, but that is quite literally the reason.

 

[Sephzilla]

If anything this is just generating more traffic for the site. We probably lost about 4-5 % of the registered users by my reckoning. (7k of 195k is 3.6 % assuming most of them went to the new forum).

You do understand that the 195k consists of things like inactive members, banned members, and alt accounts on top of the active user base right? Prior to everything that happened over the weekend the active userbase for NeoGAF was a fraction of that. This is further evidenced by how dead NeoGAF has been since everyone packed up and left.

 

[numble]

If anything this is just generating more traffic for the site. We probably lost about 4-5 % of the registered users by my reckoning. (7k of 195k is 3.6 % assuming most of them went to the new forum).

Active users is a more relevant stat. Macrumors forum has 930,000 members for instance and 16 years of existence but that new site will probably surpass the total posts of Macrumors forum in less than a year based on the comparison of activity.

Feel free to compare how active NeoGAF is compared to the new site in terms of posts per hour (or any other time interval).

 

[PJV3]

Bingo!

Hopefully this more board moves in the direction of having many people with different povs (liberal, conservative, moderate). I like to read peoples different beliefs.

It already did, unless you mean really,
really conservative.

 

[Siddiqui]

She left the door open.

To be clear, she said she thinks she closed it but may have left it slightly open. She seemed to be implying she had it closed as far as she could tell. Evilore has denied the thing altogether.

 

[Carlius]

am sticking to gaf...and there will be others than will join and new people and relationships will form. lets rebuild gaf once again.

 

[C.Mongler]

They had consentual sex afterwords. She was in an "open relationship" at the time. Call me crazy for putting some dots together and assuming maybe, just maybe, they were flirty at the time and he misread a signal.

By the way, were YOU in the shower at the time? LOL. Why'd they fuck after the fact?

I mean your entire premise revolves around me believing EviLore's little 'bitches be crazy' story, which I don't. If he's got mountains of evidence, then he'd best get them cards out quick as there's mountains of evidence that he's a serial asshole. Not that "WELL THEY FUCKED LATER" is even remotely a good retroactive excuse for walking in naked on a heavily intoxicated girl in the shower either, by the way.

Gaf sure is great now! I'm glad these are the great game related discussions we can have now that the snowflakes are gone!

 

[MLCodest]

Bingo!

Hopefully this more board moves in the direction of having many people with different povs (liberal, conservative, moderate). I like to read peoples different beliefs.

Well do I have some bad news for you, there's not gonna be any political discussion anymore.

 

[decisions]

This pure rhetoric is what is breeding hate across the WHOLE political spectrum. This stupidity is the only thing that truly unifies all of us.

Neither side is usually right because the world is more complex than binary categories. Every group tends to have a number of good arguments and a number of bad ones. Yet there's this push to never go into the details, but simply putting convenient labels so that we can quickly move to the "executing sentence" phase.

This is what is broken: reducing every discussion to two factions in a war. It only breeds hostility.

And the way to fix that isn't easy because it requires more work than reducing everything to simple categories.

You should never target the person, the group, the hashtag or the flag. You should target the specific behavior, argument or idea.

If a person does something wrong, you should blame the act, not the person. If a group promotes awful ideas, you should point at the ideas and what's wrong with them, not the group.

But yeah, the world is already in a death spiral of hate, and we all know it's only getting worse and we can't do anything about it.

This is a great post, and if this NewGAF can learn some lessons like this, it will be really, really great competition for ERA.

IMO Obviously in some cases we can blame the person/group, but not without great evidence that the actions/ideas of the person or group are wrong.

I have a lot of hope for this forum. It certainly still has the best layout overall, though it needs some upgrades for sure.

 

[Glass Joe]

I didn't define the phrase, but grabbing someones ass to assert that you are not a drink buying machine and to show your sexual interest is sexual assault, going off the recognised definition.

Some terms have a vast array of potential meanings. When I hear the term "sexual assault," I personally think of the worst thing... I think of rape. I think of Bill Cosby drugging women and having their way with them.

A George Bush pat on the bottom can also be termed as "sexual assault." That's a totally different realm of inappropriateness compared to Cosby.

Evilore entering a shower in a hotel gets the same term thrown at him as Cosby, despite nothing happening.

 

[bremon]

“Loyalty is appreciated”. Sounds like something that was said to Comey. Congratulations on kissing the ring OP.

 

[Gusto]

I’m ok with EL grabbing your mom’s ass and walking into a shower with your girlfriend. I’ll just look the other way and talk about games, am i right?

 

[ZeoVGM]

I suggest you do the same. You're acting as if this is a traumatized rape victim.

No, I'm not acting like that.

Sexual harassment has many forms. It isn't just rape that can have an impact on a person. You sound incredibly ignorant right now.

 

[Gravy Boat]

Some terms have a vast array of potential meanings. When I hear the term "sexual assault," I personally think of the worst thing... I think of rape. I think of Bill Cosby drugging women and having their way with them.

A George Bush pat on the bottom can also be termed as "sexual assault." That's a totally different realm of inappropriateness compared to Cosby.

Evilore entering a shower in a hotel gets the same term thrown at him as Cosby, despite nothing happening.

None of that changes what the actual, legally recognised definition of sexual assault is. There are different degrees.

You're basically arguing that there's good sexual assault and bad sexual assault.

 

[Whompa02]

And here comes the inevitable, "I'm going to complain about complainers" threads.

I realize I'm doing the next step, which is complaining about complainers complaining about complainers, but I guess that's what happens when something controversial comes up.

They're also not cry babies. They're people who have an opinion. You don't have to agree with it, but you should at the very least respect their opinion to move on and stop being so confrontational. Shows a lack of good character on your own end. Doesn't make you look good, or the better person, at all.

 

[luulubuu]

Neogaf, as a gaming community, has always been an awesome news source. Well moderated, interesting, and had the fastest breaking news.

Neogaf, off-topic, was just becoming a cess-pool. If you had a dissenting opinion, no matter how carefully crafted, you'd just get piled up upon, and potentially banned for "stirring something up" if the mod in question didn't care to debate your opinion.

Maybe it's internet culture in general. That whole vibe of every breaking story about anyone is that it's "the worst thing ever!" It's like people can't wait to be offended these days because they feel it gives them power.

EvilLore isn't just some corporate title. He is a human being. He's therefore not without faults. A past mistake being spread like wildfire everywhere must be a very stressful situation for him to bare. And by the way, I'm sure he appreciates the loyalty! And for not jumping to conclusions, and seeing how the situation plays out!

I still read the situation and find the controversy - if pure fact - to be almost nothing. The dude and the girl were both shitfaced drunk, and friendly enough that they shared a hotel room together. She claimed she drank too much and was feeling sick, and went into the shower. She left the door open. He was also too drunk and mis-read that open door as a signal, but was wrong. He tried for some action and was denied. He didn't pursue, he accepted the rejection.

They remained friends and continued to hang out. They even had consentual sex not long after the fact. To me, that's the nail in the coffin. She obviously didn't find it all that weird if she continued the friendship, and into a sexual role. There's nothing more here than an awkward misunderstanding between friends. And you're all banning yourselves for not even contemplating the situation, but just hearing "sexual assault" and having knee jerk reactions.

Those uninformed knee-jerk reactions have been too common-place here for too long and needed to stop. I'm sorry to see some good people have left. But I also think that this purge is weeding out some of the dramatic people who didn't help the forum.

You are total garbage and a fucking coward that waited to have no one to call you out to say this shit.

Super fitting avatar and name

 

[bremon]

None of that changes what the actual, legally recognised definition of sexual assault is. There are different degrees.

You're basically arguing that there's good sexual assault and bad sexual assault.

Come on man, it’s a lighthearted pat on the ass. Or a chimp-like willingness to help clean a loved one. Harmless, like locker room talk. /s

 

[Fercho]

All these MAGA idiots with their new discourse.

"I Want be heard with my "dissident opinions". Well, what kind of opinions are that? do you have examples?

You are total garbage and a fucking coward that waited to have no one to call you out to say this shit.

Super fitting avatar and name

UUUUUU, right in the face!!!!!, i definitely share your opinion about this coward.

 

[Glass Joe]

I mean your entire premise revolves around me believing EviLore's little 'bitches be crazy' story, which I don't. If he's got mountains of evidence, then he'd best get them cards out quick as there's mountains of evidence that he's a serial asshole. Not that "WELL THEY FUCKED LATER" is even remotely good retroactive excuse for walking in naked on a heavily intoxicated girl in the shower either, by the way.

Gaf sure is great now! I'm glad these are the great game related discussions we can have now that the snowflakes are gone!

Actually my premise is me taking the girl at her word, and trying to fill in any potential blanks. Why isn't them having a sexual relationship soon after relevant, by the way? And this is only one thread until OT opens up, so don't get too peeved about where it is, bro.

 

[Gravy Boat]

Come on man, it's a lighthearted pat on the ass. Or a chimp-like willingness to help clean a loved one. Harmless, like locker room talk. /s

"Why are these people mad about me waggling my dick around on the bus? I didn't touch anyone with it and there were no kids about. Harmless really".

 

[nekkid]

It’s not all about whining and suicide threads. Nobody can deny it’s gone comparatively quiet here this week.

 

[Raiden]

Both sides, right?

Oh god that was that awkward interview where they just ignored him? Anyone got a link for that?

 

[Glass Joe]

You are total garbage and a fucking coward that waited to have no one to call you out to say this shit.

Super fitting avatar and name

Thanks for calling me all that and not giving me a single opinion / argument as to why. That really helps the talk! Plenty of people have "called me out" and expressed their opinions, in the interest of having a discussion. You obviously did not. Thanks for not contributing.

 

[BanjoLayleeYookaKazooie]

Yeah my opinion of OP went south rather quick.

Even more disappointing that there's a few who agree with them ITT.

Scary times ahead...

 

[Claude Augario]

We are now trying to redefine unwanted ass grabs as not sexual assault. Revenge porn also seems to have gone completely invisible to the people making these arguments too.

I'm sure this is exactly what all the people complaining about "no dissenting opinions allowed in OT" wanted.

 

[Dynasty]

You guys do realise, EvilLore probably doesnt care about Gaf anymore, he is just milking whatever money he can out of this website now?

 

[Heckler456]

If anything this is just generating more traffic for the site. We probably lost about 4-5 % of the registered users by my reckoning. (7k of 195k is 3.6 % assuming most of them went to the new forum).

Sorry to burst your bubble, but at the very least, traffic seems to be about the same between both sites right now, with actual active participation on the other site being much higher.