Why is the community convicting Evilore? I see no jurors here.

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By your logic, everyone who has done some wrongs should be stripped away of their jobs and income.

Don't you think this is god damn silly.
There are degrees of punishment...but in your eyes, it is as if every criminal deserves a death or life sentence regardless of the severity of their crime.

So Harvey Weinstein, someone who faces many many accusations and of harrasements and rape, is pretty much done with his career. Bill Busby also faces huge backlash and legal issues due to many rape accusations.

And here's Evilore...done some questionable things but none of it anywhere close or comparable to those gentlemen above yet you are pretty much treating him the same as them.

Also, I just want to point out, sure he benefits from the site heavily, he also provided and maintained a platform for hardcore gamers to socialize for over 10 years when there wasn't another option, specially early on (I don't remember there were ads for a long time). Done some bads but done some goods too, no?
 
Xtyle said:
By your logic, everyone who has done some wrongs should be stripped away of their jobs and income.

Don't you think this is god damn silly.
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Yes it does seem silly. Because I didn't say that.

There are degrees of punishment...but in your eyes, it is as if every criminal deserves a death or life sentence regardless of the severity of their crime.
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Citation needed.

You're making things up.

So Harvey Weinstein, someone who faces many many accusations and of harrasements and rape, is pretty much done with his career. Bill Busby also faces huge backlash and legal issues due to many rape accusations.

And here's Evilore...done some questionable things but none of it anywhere close or comparable to those gentlemen above yet you are pretty much treating him the same as them.
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Yes. they are incomparable. Why are you comparing them.

Also, I just want to point out, sure he benefits from the site heavily, he also provided and maintained a platform for hardcore gamers to socialize for over 10 years when there wasn't another option, specially early on (I don't remember there were ads for a long time). Done some bads but done some goods too, no?
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"The bad" included nuking half of the forums and telling us we were no longer allowed to engage in a significant leg of discourse. By making a community which was never about him specifically about his ideals he turned a significant portion of the community away.

We did not want this and again he survived allegations before. His responses to it and how he sanctioned the community is what people saw issue with.
 
Breads said:
Yes it does seem silly. Because I didn't say that.



Citation needed.

You're making things up.



Yes. they are incomparable. Why are you comparing them.



"The bad" included nuking half of the forums and telling us we were no longer allowed to engage in a significant leg of discourse. By making a community which was never about him specifically about his ideals he turned a significant portion of the community away.

We did not want this and again he survived allegations before. His responses to it and how he sanctioned the community is what people saw issue with.
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My previous post was not directed only towards you but more in general as we have had people come over and discuss this subject in various threads.

One of the problems is that we just experienced the server shutdown differently...I was here before the shutdown but I wasn't aware of stuff happening (I remember the threads but I didn't click them at the time). But afrerwards I did go and look up threads before the shutdown and it was just a bunch of angry voices calling names and cursing Evilore (I hope i remember the content right as the weekend was chaotic)..

Sorry, if I have to say that I didn't want to belong to a community with that kind of people. They only cared about insulting him, same with the account suicides posting some guy pulling his gapping asshole on my screen like 10 reapting times. Or, how about those going out leaving insults to the remaining people. They were no better than Evilore. And they are on the other side too now or later...so why should I go there where a bunch of people act so happy and civil and treat others so soo nice...with love. Sure not all of them, but there's a large amount of them are hypocrites.
 
Symphonia said:
It’s a mixture of both, in my opinion. Tyler’s history, these unproven allegations, and his quite-frankly piss poor excuse for an apology was, for a lot of people, the final nail in the coffin. I, personally, couldn’t really care less. He fucked up, like people do, and tried to apologise for it. He failed, of course, but humans fail all the time. As I’ve stated many times, I’m here for the discussion and to support the community, not to show my support for EviLore.
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How did he”try to apologize for it”? He denied her account completely, said she is mentally-ill, said she is bisexual, and said she is an ex when she wasn’t. You’re lying to yourself if you honestly think he tried to apologize.
 
PabloBolivar said:
If I were to take the time to only use products from perfect people, I would die.
Does Evilore use slave-like labor like Amazon does?
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I say this as a black guy. Don’t compare supposedly shorty work environments to slavery. It trivializes the magnitude of how bad slavery is and was.
 
Two Words said:
How did he”try to apologize for it”? He denied her account completely, said she is mentally-ill, said she is bisexual, and said she is an ex when she wasn’t. You’re lying to yourself if you honestly think he tried to apologize.
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Hence why I said he failed in his attempt to do so.

HiredN00bs said:
As long as you're okay with that. #believeHim
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I’ve not once said I believe him. I’ve always took the stance that neither side is guilty nor innocent until concrete evidence has been provided. Stop trying to make something out of nothing. And I find it extremely hypocritical, by the way, that you continue to post on here despite your obvious reluctance to support either Tyler or NeoGAF.

#BelieveHim, amiryte?
 
Two Words said:
I say this as a black guy. Don't compare supposedly shorty work environments to slavery. It trivializes the magnitude of how bad slavery is and was.
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I think the point of "slave-like" is to imply when companies do marginalize employees to the point it borders on exploitation and cruelty.

Like when labor laws state you can only work "x" amount of hours a week before you're entitled to bonus pay, but a company ignores that and refuses to pay overtime.
 
JordanN said:
I think the point of "slave-like" is to imply when companies do marginalize employees to the point it borders on exploitation.

Like when working laws state you can only work "x" amount of hours a week, but a company forces you to go above that and work 100.
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What company is forcing its employees to work over 14 hours a day with no days off?
 
Two Words said:
I say this as a black guy. Don't compare supposedly shorty work environments to slavery. It trivializes the magnitude of how bad slavery is and was.
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I hear you. The workers have used the actual term "slave" to describe their own conditions. I toned it down because of exactly what you are saying.

JordanN said:
I think the point of "slave-like" is to imply when companies do marginalize employees to the point it borders on exploitation and cruelty.

Like when labor laws state you can only work "x" amount of hours a week before you're entitled to bonus pay, but a company ignores that and refuses to pay overtime.
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Exactly. Sorry for the late replies, but I was watching Mindhunter this morning. It's addictive.

Edit: anyway, the point of my post was just to say stop being fucking hypocrites. Be honest with yourself. Do you only use websites and companies that completely meet your moral demands? I fucking doubt it. Get over yourselves.
 
Xtyle said:
My previous post was not directed only towards you but more in general as we have had people come over and discuss this subject in various threads.

One of the problems is that we just experienced the server shutdown differently...I was here before the shutdown but I wasn't aware of stuff happening (I remember the threads but I didn't click them at the time). But afrerwards I did go and look up threads before the shutdown and it was just a bunch of angry voices calling names and cursing Evilore (I hope i remember the content right as the weekend was chaotic)..

Sorry, if I have to say that I didn't want to belong to a community with that kind of people. They only cared about insulting him, same with the account suicides posting some guy pulling his gapping asshole on my screen like 10 reapting times. Or, how about those going out leaving insults to the remaining people. They were no better than Evilore. And they are on the other side too now or later...so why should I go there where a bunch of people act so happy and civil and treat others so soo nice...with love. Sure not all of them, but there's a large amount of them are hypocrites.
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Yeah the way a lot of people handled it was shitty. Especially the ones who posted inappropriate images. I wouldn't want secretly shitty people in my community either.

It wasn't everyone who moved on though. It wasn't even most people and honestly it shouldn't be used to represent everyone who you disagree with just because pretending a handful of people are all one person is convenient for you when directing your posts at a vague something to make a point.

You keep constructing these straw effigies you want to rally against... and I'm not sure what you expect me or other people to do with that. If you want to discuss things with people a good place to start to respond to things people currently in the conversation have said or done. What you did was confusing... especially since you posted right before me and after me and it is the second post that I responded to.

I will give you the benefit of the doubt but forgive me if it felt to me like you had some canned responses in the chamber and you didn't read through my post before you made yours. I'm willing to accept that I could have been wrong - but that's what your post looked like.

Gotta say though that if you don't want to belong to a community with those kind of people... 'they' are still here. The good and the bad. And again, I urge you read the post you may not have... because I took the effort to point out an important reason why people left that you have yet to address. If you don't want to look like you're dishing out a few canned responses you can at least put forth the effort to actually read and respond to posts instead of implying you did to make point. Otherwise it just looks like you don't actually care and you're just here as a cheerleader. My point that he alienated the community by nuking half of the forum (at the time people left) and forcing the community to reflect his personal issues is valid.

PabloBolivar said:
Exactly. Sorry for the late replies, but I was watching Mindhunter this morning. It's addictive.
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It's so good.
 
Breads said:
Failing a purity test isn't the reason why tens of thousands of the most active members left and if you think some meek whataboutism/ false equivalence is all it takes to refute the reasons why people left when they did then you don't understand the [former] gaf community at all.

Pretending to represent a community while barely being a part of it and trying to force the community to change once open discussion became inconvenient for him is the real reason why people left. The reason why the statement/ interview(s?) failed was because he put himself and his interests above the rest of the community. We [were] gaf. Not him. Part of his damage control was throwing the community under the bus, publicly calling us out and disabling the entire OT section, currently archiving years worth of (often hilarious or informative) content, because he now wants to force the community into a more convenient mold... despite the fact that it was never about him or his ideals.

What he should have done was damage control without dragging gaf down with him. Instead he implied that the community blew it out of proportion and instead of a round table discussion with community leaders in order to find out how to best represent the community interests going forward he cut access to the site, bringing it back with half of the community sections disabled.

The moment we because a nuisance to him and he tried to force message is the moment people decided to leave. Not these allegations. He survived worse allegations in the past and people have been spreading unsubstantiated rumors about him for years. This could have been no different. What was different this time though was forcing the website to reflect his personal life and treating us like nothing more than a paycheck that needed to fall in line or else. That was the breaking point. On top of already strict policies he put the blame on us
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That's bullshit. The only reason people left was because the story got mainstream attention and the mods began to feel the heat. No way they would have survived ignoring this like with the Amirox scandal for that reason. As you said, there were incidents in the past that were even worse, but did not receive as much attention from those outside of GAF. What helped spread the fire this time was the #MeToo movement.

Everyone knew about the other incidents but the majority, including all the people begging to be permanently banned now, chose to stay. Now it's convenient to leave since there's a new forum. Had those people been truly virtuous, they would have left years ago.
 
PabloBolivar said:
I hear you. The workers have used the actual term "slave" to describe their own conditions. I toned it down because of exactly what you are saying.



Exactly. Sorry for the late replies, but I was watching Mindhunter this morning. It's addictive.

Edit: anyway, the point of my post was just to say stop being fucking hypocrites. Be honest with yourself. Do you only use websites and companies that completely meet your moral demands? I fucking doubt it. Get over yourselves.
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Of course it is impossible to make sure you never support anybody that is shitty. But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t end support when you know somebody is shitty.
 
Two Words said:
If you don’t understand the issue of trying to argue an alleged sex assault victim is crazy to explain away the allegation, the you’re a lost cause.
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Putting aside the ‘crazy lady’ allegations for just one moment, do you not find it weird that she deleted the Facebook post mere minutes after putting it up with no evidence to back her up? Or that she did, in fact, enter into a sexual relationship with Tyler after this incident? What EviLore did was messed up, and his statement defending himself was piss poor, but her actions hardly seem those of someone deeply affected by trauma.
 
Two Words said:
Of course it is impossible to make sure you never support anybody that is shitty. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't end support when you know somebody is shitty.
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I'm curious how far does this apply to?

For example, I think almost everyone knows China is home to a communist government and sweat shops a plenty. Yet why isn't the issue of boycotting Chinese goods talked about more?

All your clothes, electronics, food, toys etc have "Made in China" printed somewhere.
 
Symphonia said:
Putting aside the ‘crazy lady’ allegations for just one moment, do you not find it weird that she deleted the Facebook post mere minutes after putting it up with no evidence to back her up? Or that she did, in fact, enter into a sexual relationship with Tyler after this incident? What EviLore did was messed up, and his statement defending himself was piss poor, but her actions hardly seem those of someone deeply affected by trauma.
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She deleted it because she did not intend it to be so public. That isn’t weird. Her argument was never that Evilore was some abusive monster. Her argument was that Evilore crossed a line when she was drunk. Them having sex later isn’t that significant because it is unrelated to these events. Just because she felt he crossed a line then doesn’t mean their relationship couldn’t change later. The biggest issue is how Evilore responded to her. He could have easily just explained how that night was a bit of an embarrassing moment for that and that he’s learned from it. Instead, he said she is crazy and that she’s an ex when she isn’t.
 
7echnicolor said:
'she doesn't REALLY seem like a REAL victim does, does she guys???'

please don't do that
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I’m not saying this didn’t happen. But to make a fair judgement call, we need evidence from both sides. Tyler isn’t innocent, as proven by past incidents, but we shouldn’t condemn him for this when literally all we have to go by is a now-deleted Facebook post. If someone made a Facebook post calling you a rapist and then deletes it with no reason why, are we to just assume that you are in fact a rapist and treat you like scum? No. You’d demand for evidence to be posted.

Two Words said:
She deleted it because she did not intend it to be so public. That isn’t weird. Her argument was never that Evilore was some abusive monster. Her argument was that Evilore crossed a line when she was drunk. Them having sex later isn’t that significant because it is unrelated to these events. Just because she felt he crossed a line then doesn’t mean their relationship couldn’t change later. The biggest issue is how Evilore responded to her. He could have easily just explained how that night was a bit of an embarrassing moment for that and that he’s learned from it. Instead, he said she is crazy and that she’s an ex when she isn’t.
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If she didn’t want it public, why post it on Facebook? She knew exactly who Tyler is and the reputation he has online. If you don’t want something posted, don’t post it. Simple. Once it’s out there, you can’t delete it. We all know that.
 
JordanN said:
I'm curious how far does this apply to?

For example, I think almost everyone knows China is home to a communist government and sweat shops a plenty. Yet why isn't the issue of boycotting Chinese goods talked about more?

All your clothes, electronics, food, toys etc have "Made in China" written down somewhere.
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Maybe we should. Maybe if we tried to stand up against shorty people/companies, we will work ourselves up to not supporting those bigger issues.
 
Symphonia said:
I’m not saying this didn’t happen. But to make a fair judgement call, we need evidence from both sides. Tyler isn’t innocent, as proven by past incidents, but we shouldn’t condemn him for this when literally all we have to go by is a now-deleted Facebook post. If someone made a Facebook post calling you a rapist and then deletes it with no reason why, are we to just assume that you are in fact a rapist and treat you like scum? No. You’d demand for evidence to be posted.


If she didn’t want it public, why post it on Facebook? She knew exactly who Tyler is and the reputation he has online. If you don’t want something posted, don’t post it. Simple. Once it’s out there, you can’t delete it. We all know that.
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What is the point about moving the focus on “why did she do this, why did she do that?” Maybe she didn’t consider it would get this big? From my understanding, it was a private Facebook post. Even if it wasn’t, why do you feel the need to make THIS the emphasis?
 
Two Words said:
Maybe we should. Maybe if we tried to stand up against shorty people/companies, we will work ourselves up to not supporting those bigger issues.
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So how is it going to work?

Because almost every country on earth does business with China, how is it morally acceptable to continue living here?
 
JordanN said:
So how is it going to work?

Because almost every country on earth does business with China, how is it morally acceptable to continue living here?
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Why are you asking me for a single action to change everything when I’m saying do what you can when you can to help step towards a society that would make a bigger change?
 
Soleil rouge said:
That's bullshit. The only reason people left was because the story got mainstream attention and the mods began to feel the heat. No way they would have survived ignoring this like with the Amirox scandal for that reason. As you said, there were incidents in the past that were even worse, but did not receive as much attention from those outside of GAF. What helped spread the fire this time was the #MeToo movement.

Everyone knew about the other incidents but the majority, including all the people begging to be permanently banned now, chose to stay. Now it's convenient to leave since there's a new forum. Had those people been truly virtuous, they would have left years ago.
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So instead of using the things people have been saying you're playing connect the dots with disparate talking points to form a narrative that encapsulates tens of thousands of people as if this was a planned hive-mind decision that was both driven by virtue while simultaneously not being virtuous enough.

It's schroedinger's strawman.

Neat.

One flaw in your premise though - a new forum could have been made any time and for all you know it could have been a long time coming, for reasons you already stated, way back when.

To me it's more likely that the difference with these new allegations is how it was handled and the changes that were forced onto the community. It's a weird assertion to make that thousands and thousands of people would leave a website they were using for years just because another website randomly appeared.
 
Two Words said:
What is the point about moving the focus on “why did she do this, why did she do that?” Maybe she didn’t consider it would get this big? From my understanding, it was a private Facebook post. Even if it wasn’t, why do you feel the need to make THIS the emphasis?
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And why are you so obsessed with this notion that if she said it, it must be true. I really don’t get why you - or so many others - clearly have an issue with EviLore and his handling of the aftermath, and yet continue to post here on the forum that HE owns, whining like little bitches. If you have a problem, go, move on. I and nobody else will stop you, not if it means we can get back to decent discussion about stuff that doesn’t continually lower the tone of the place.
 
Two Words said:
Why are you asking me for a single action to change everything when I'm saying do what you can when you can to help step towards a society that would make a bigger change?
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But you said we should end support when we know someone is shitty.

Pretty much everyone knows China's government is heinous, so that means we must abandon all ties with that nation. Starting with the clothes we're wearing.
 
Xtyle said:
Very early in the weekend it was already reported that there was a GAF successor in the work. Being that fast, I can't help but question that if a spin-off site was ever discussed before among those key members and it just so happened to be a good time for them to do it this time.
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I can tell you this wasn't the case.

I was in the discord when they were discussing it. they didn't even start until sunday


i don't doubt that spin off sites have been discussed before. given how downhill gaf has been going the past few years. But this forum wasn't a thing until after gaf went down
 
Breads said:
So instead of using the things people have been saying you're playing connect the dots with disparate talking points to form a narrative that encapsulates tens of thousands of people as if this was a planned hive-mind decision that was both driven by virtue while simultaneously not being virtuous enough.

It's schroedinger's strawman.

Neat.

One flaw in your premise though - a new forum could have been made any time and for all you know it could have been a long time coming, for reasons you already stated, way back when.

To me it's more likely that the difference with these new allegations is how it was handled and the changes that were forced onto the community. It's a weird assertion to make that thousands and thousands of people would leave a website they were using for years just because another website randomly appeared.
Click to expand...

There were a few forums that popped up over the years but none were even remotely as successful as resetera is now. The difference is that the mods who made people feel safe and important left GAF for good. The changes "forced onto the community" were made after all the mods had already bounced.
 
Symphonia said:
And why are you so obsessed with this notion that if she said it, it must be true. I really don’t get why you - or so many others - clearly have an issue with EviLore and his handling of the aftermath, and yet continue to post here on the forum that HE owns, whining like little bitches. If you have a problem, go, move on. I and nobody else will stop you, not if it means we can get back to decent discussion about stuff that doesn’t continually lower the tone of the place.
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Soleil rouge said:
The streets.
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You seem so badass.
 
TesUsa said:
men lie and do bad shit and so can women. each situation has to be analyzed separately and shouldn't have a blanket response of acceptance based on the gender
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This is actually reactionary to a cultural trend of blanket responses based on gender, specifically, automatically dismissing female victims as liars, or victim-blaming. The goal is to have an end result that more closely resembles what you describe.

Also, just because we believe the victim doesn't mean we automatically determine the perp guilty. When that does happen there will be some additional information on the event or persons involved, or personal biases are present.

Night.Ninja said:
In that same post she outed him she should have also said after that incident they entered a relationship and had consensual sex.
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He literally just dismissed that bullshit premise. Why should she add something that makes no difference? What happened later does not change the original event, ever. That's a shitbrained interpretation of anything in life.
 
JordanN said:
But you said we should end support when we know someone is shitty.

Pretty much everyone knows China's government is heinous, so that means we must abandon all ties with that nation. Starting with the clothes we're wearing.
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You’re not listening to what I’m saying.
 
Symphonia said:
And why are you so obsessed with this notion that if she said it, it must be true. I really don’t get why you - or so many others - clearly have an issue with EviLore and his handling of the aftermath, and yet continue to post here on the forum that HE owns, whining like little bitches. If you have a problem, go, move on. I and nobody else will stop you, not if it means we can get back to decent discussion about stuff that doesn’t continually lower the tone of the place.
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I never once said that if she said it then it is true. But hey, keep asking people to go away when they challenge you.
 
Two Words said:
Not really, and especially not if the person hasn’t changed. And that is moot since Evilore’s response to it was incredibly shitty.
Click to expand...

No argument there, but "has been shitty" implies change. I was speaking generally, since people often equate the two.
 
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