Why is the community convicting Evilore? I see no jurors here.
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WaterAstro
Member
What do you mean by "gross"? Gross is a broad term, so what is the specific act that you are saying that is gross?
Pesmerga00
Member
Did you see the ban spree Bish went on just before he left? The obsession this site had with him was just plain weird. Disagreeing, no matter how innocuous would get you a ban. It was the smallest amount of I have ever seen go to someones head.
Sanjaaaaaaaay
Member
Ya'll are diluting the events that took place.
He hasn't taken accountability over the events, how he made her feel, how he responded, etc.
That is why people dipped. People fuck up all the time.
He hasn't taken accountability over the events, how he made her feel, how he responded, etc.
That is why people dipped. People fuck up all the time.
Do we really need to repeat this again and again?
It's not about being judge, jury and excecutioner;
This particular problem, these last allegations are the last straw for many mods and members, especially how it was handled. While I don't agree with account suicides and some of the more, uh, colourful posts, I do understand why people left. I'm not going to bring up other incidents, those were brought up a lot of times.
But a lot of people left because of the terrible new handling; invisible mods, some discussions being denied with some sort of new focus... thats not right. I think its not in best GAF interest.
This particular problem, these last allegations are the last straw for many mods and members, especially how it was handled. While I don't agree with account suicides and some of the more, uh, colourful posts, I do understand why people left. I'm not going to bring up other incidents, those were brought up a lot of times.
But a lot of people left because of the terrible new handling; invisible mods, some discussions being denied with some sort of new focus... thats not right. I think its not in best GAF interest.
WaterAstro
Member
They got into a relationship afterwards, so, at that time, she felt pretty fine and dandy about it.
Do we know he didn't apologize or anything in private during their relationship? We don't know. All we know, from Klepick's article, is that the shower thing happened, then they got into a relationship, then they broke up, and now she's accusing him of sexual harassment.
The order of events don't add up. You don't get into a sexual relationship with your sexual harasser if you think you're a victim.
Well, we can't tell you if what you're saying is right or wrong if it's so vague.
Marty Chinn
Member
You should probably read up on the subject and behavior:
https://www.pcar.org/blog/common-victim-behaviors-survivors-sexual-abuse
By no means am I saying he did it, but at the same time, the behavior doesn't automatically mean she's lying either. It's perfectly normal behavior for such an incident.
It is intellectually dishonest to ask as if it isn't already well known at this point.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
Is getting naked into a shower and being told to leave and then doing so actually abuse? Abuse to me is pressing the issue, becoming threatening, ensuring she's drunk and isolating her etc.
where is the line for 'ok that guy straight fucked up'? these days? I do believe there is room for 'she wants me she wants me she wantsmeholyfuck she doesntwantme bailout'. Sexual mistakes can happen.
Is there actually a follow up to this story about the events from the accuser? I'm not even touching the fact the guy claimed it didn't happen, I'm just curious as to the opinion that the issue as described above constitutes abuse or not.
for a junior with 5 posts, you sure reek of alt account.
Marty Chinn
Member
As defined by the US Justice Department, it sounds like the answer is yes.
https://www.justice.gov/ovw/sexual-assault
I'm not trying to take a side or make any conclusions, but some of you seem to be dismissing what happened because you don't understand what sexual assault is or what the details or behavior of people is who have experienced it.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Its OK guys, much like Phoenix Rising did I expect most of you defending EviLore to show up on Era and act like that never happened. We wont bring it up so get it out of your systems now.
JrBaconCheeseburger
Member
People are always judging motherfuckers and making themselves out to be better than others.
I am in no way defending any one person but people are so quick to jump to conclusions and start a movement of some sort.
With all due respect you are making it seem as if these are anything other than public forums for games and discussion.
You are not part of some elite organization and who is we?
Some people take this stuff pretty serious.
You obviously saw the post so you were obviously on gaf.
Both have great threads.
I am in no way defending any one person but people are so quick to jump to conclusions and start a movement of some sort.
With all due respect you are making it seem as if these are anything other than public forums for games and discussion.
You are not part of some elite organization and who is we?
Anonymous Posters
Some people take this stuff pretty serious.
You obviously saw the post so you were obviously on gaf.
Both have great threads.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
the most american thing I've ever seen.
'please sign this waiver before I allow myself to get an erection'.
You'll have to excuse me if I don't differ to the USA as the bastion of right and wrong and I can't really pretend the US as a whole is winning the race in having a healthy attitude towards sex when compared to other first world countries.
WaterAstro
Member
Yeah, I know about that. I'm just pointing out that the order of events complicates any judgement and requires more evidence. I don't think it's perfectly normal because perfectly normal and logical behavior is to get away from it. We don't know if she had full control of her decisions at the time of their relationship. It's just something you can pin as evidence.
You're just dodging the question at this point and indirectly insulting me now, so either get to the point or stop trolling.
Marty Chinn
Member
I agree that the US's behavior towards sex is regressed compared to other places, but both of the people involved live in the US and the events took place in the US which means they are bound by US laws. So no matter what you think of what should or should not be sexual assault, those are the circumstances of the incident.
But studies about sexual assault show that the behavior of victims isn't perfectly normal or logical. That's the whole point. You can't hold it against them because victims do often go against what you might think they would do. I feel like people trying to point out the relationship are trying to use that as proof that it didn't happen or to dilute the allegation when we shouldn't be.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
which begs the question have charges been laid and who is guilty and at what point according to those laws?
Also, does the US government give examples of what explicit sexual consent sounds like in practice? Is there somewhere I can read those examples?
EDIT: I appreciate the discussion by the way and I don't know the owner or the girl accusing him from a bar of soap, but based on the story so far I'm having very hard time just posting a banner that says 'believe women'. I'm proudly moderate and I don't believe this situation actually has to result out in 'he's a rapist' or 'she's a liar'. Despite the current celebrity drama going on.
can you provide evidence to this personal attack?
I was saying the same thing yesterday, but all of the screen capture references documenting the problems seem to have been deleted, haven't bothered to check if people's post explaining it have been as well.
At this point does it really matter? 30k users did not just leave on a whim and the damage is done.
I don't even know if their is no mention to the indictments here because nobody cares or if it is banned as political (6 hours between the first and last post in OT is fucking bananas).
Marty Chinn
Member
Cornell Law School defines consent as:
I think the problem with charges is there's a mine field associated with bringing charges to the table. That's why so many people are coming out against Harvey Weinstein but very few have actually pressed charges. Even further, that's the reason why some won't even mention people who did assault them.
She should have pressed charges and things could have then been handled behind closed doors, though putting his and her name out there wasn't the wisest thing to do, but I'm not a lawyer so what do I know.
Evilore should probably move to another country and change his name if he ever wants to have a normal life again.
Evilore should probably move to another country and change his name if he ever wants to have a normal life again.
Unfortunately, the internet is worldwide, so there really isn't any way to get away from this. However, I don't think many people are going to know about this outside of the NeoGAF community and/or gaming community at large, so it's unlikely that he'll have to live under a rock in order to have a normal life.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
item C in the list is a pretty broad 'choose your side' kind of clause. Which is good I suppose because that's how it really is.
the issue I've got with the story is that in the story about the owner, he made a 'pretty bold' advance. The person girl apparently very clearly 'did not give consent' and as the story goes he immediately left.
While you can crucify the guy for 'being a creeper' or whatever, he quite obviously, as the girl told it that way, immediately left the room when consent wasn't given. so.... is he a sexual assaulter as defined by those laws? seems not?
the issue I've got with the story is that in the story about the owner, he made a 'pretty bold' advance. The person girl apparently very clearly 'did not give consent' and as the story goes he immediately left.
While you can crucify the guy for 'being a creeper' or whatever, he quite obviously, as the girl told it that way, immediately left the room when consent wasn't given. so.... is he a sexual assaulter as defined by those laws? seems not?
Marty Chinn
Member
The thing is, by getting in naked and getting inside, that already violated consent. The whole idea would be consent would be given before the act was done, not after it was in progress but before it escalated further. I'm pretty sure someone who flashes their genitals to you is also considered a crime which would be exposing oneself to another before and/or without consent.
WaterAstro
Member
If you look at the article, they had discussed about how the incident was not okay, and it says Evilore was receptive to the discussion. This is the part where I think she stops being a victim because they talked about the inappropriateness of the shower incident. Everything afterwards is just a normal relationship uninfluenced by the inappropriate behavior in the shower.
I point out the relationship because it happened, and it brings into question if she does have mental issues as alleged by Evilore. It's a possibility that should not be discounted, and their relationship should matter when discussing about any proof. Parts of the article even describe such behavior, like when acquaintances said their relationship was sexual because they shared a room, but Leupp denied it. You don't share a room in a relationship and have that kind of expectation of other people's thinking. From reading the article, I certainly feel like she made a lot of decisions and actions that weren't influenced by the shower incident.
EdwardTeach
Member
How did op get banned?
BuddyTheBestPuppy
Member
My dad told me, a man's credibility can be destroyed in seconds. After I told him, I tried asking a librarian out the parking lot. I was just quietly studying in this public library. We saw each parking our cars one day, I thought it was an innocuous place to approach her while not disturbing her at work. I got rejected instantly and she got really creeped out/upset..told all the librarians (even they got upset) and also banned my car from the parking lot for good measure. Idk what happened, maybe I waited too long or something, but that incident absolutely left me shell shocked. I had anxiety around women before, but now I am extra careful. And parking lots are not a good place to approach women! (duh!) 
You really have to be very careful with women nowadays.
You really have to be very careful with women nowadays.
Royce McCutcheon
Junior Member
Imagine being a cheerleader for a message board. As if this some football league
She didn't even close it. "I had it cracked open enough for protection" lol.
I don't know, but I find it incredibly ironic lol.
You can easily see it with the state of GAF's threads in both OT and Gaming. A good portion has left and it has only been a week. I am on both websites, though I come here way less than I used to.
As a person that moved to the other website, I rolled my eyes each time I seen someone post that GAF was dying, but it definitely has slowed down significantly.
Night Angel
Member
The fact that I can leave off topic for an hour and come back to less than 10 threads being bumped sucks.
It's a 11.5 hours from the first and last post on page 1 of OT. Gaming at least seems a bit healthier at 2.5 hours but it used to be separated by minutes
I think I'm gonna take a break from here as I am coming for the wrong reasons, I feel like a rubbernecker slowing down looking at the car wreck.
good luck!
Talking with your harrasser and telling them that harrassing you is not ok doesn't mean it didn't happen (even if they stop then)
She called it a "teachable moment" because she felt she could correct him on it and he would be ok with that but he still did the thing that she had to then teach him not to do.
Dude was creepy as fuck and then tried to call her a liar and crazy when it came back on him.
I don't know but this definitely makes it her fault tho
Super Mario
Banned
So much of the Internet has fought for this very moment. Where accusations, especially against wealthy males are the judge, jury, and executioner. It's sad really. This site has vigorously defended that it ever incited any type of "mob rule". I wonder if that opinion is still fully intact.
Wait until you are accused of something that is either untrue, or completely blown out of proportion. It will make you put down that flaming pitchfork at every news article you read. Imagine making a name for yourself in 10 years from now and achieving the dream for yourself and your family. Hopefully you didn't even say anything questionable in your lifetime or it's all over. Everyone is so concerned with smearing each other and furthering their own causes, that no one gives a crap about ruining your life.
It's also pretty crazy that I could have made this same post a month ago, and would have been met with graphs, being called ignorant, responses such as "are you even serious right now?", the works, probably even a ban. Yet today, at the very least, it shows an ounce of credibility.
Wait until you are accused of something that is either untrue, or completely blown out of proportion. It will make you put down that flaming pitchfork at every news article you read. Imagine making a name for yourself in 10 years from now and achieving the dream for yourself and your family. Hopefully you didn't even say anything questionable in your lifetime or it's all over. Everyone is so concerned with smearing each other and furthering their own causes, that no one gives a crap about ruining your life.
It's also pretty crazy that I could have made this same post a month ago, and would have been met with graphs, being called ignorant, responses such as "are you even serious right now?", the works, probably even a ban. Yet today, at the very least, it shows an ounce of credibility.
Umm yeah, because men need to be locked out of a shower otherwise all normal men will go in for sexing.
I tell you what, man, if someone asks you what happened, the longer you wait to answer the guiltier you look. Saying "hold on I'll make a statement in a sec" and then three days later coming back with "nah, that chick is crazy" makes you look like a untrustworthy as fuck.
As does your entire workforce quitting after you speak to them about it.
As does closing a section of your website for clearly no other reason than to try to stop discussion of your situation.
As does speaking to the press before speaking directly to your community.
Too much smoke choked the website out, the allegations we're just the spark that started the blaze.
This is a pretty good summary of my feelings
2blackcats
Member
Doesn't matter. It will take years to get this place back to a resemblence of its former self.
It's sad, at least for me anyway.
Has anyone written a poem yet, "the day that GAF died"?
Edit :shit, thought I was in the other thread.
It's sad, at least for me anyway.
Has anyone written a poem yet, "the day that GAF died"?
Edit :shit, thought I was in the other thread.
WaterAstro
Member
No. "When it came back on him" is wrong. Those accusations of her mental illness came from the events of E3 when she supposedly had a couple of mental breakdowns and fighting, as well as calling Evilore "rape-y", which is a lie.
Its well known that gaf has a certain stigma on the net, most notably among the alt right, but even some moderate and liberal places have looked down on gaf. I think this was what set off the bomb, and the fuse was lit for a long time.
Super Mario
Banned
While that may be so, words matter. You can't just shoot at the hip anymore. Especially when you have a business on the line. Anything you say and do will be dissected infinite times. Case in point.
That doesn't make it an invite, although I'm guessing you're a rapist.
For the love of... Evilore is a grown ass man and should have been responsible enough to not only know his limits, but not put himself in this kind of situation to begin with (and he should have known better on both fronts given his history). Being drunk may be an explanation but is not an excuse (and of course there is already the rabbit hole of alcohol merely lowering inhibitions for feelings already there...)
7echnicolor
Member
Lmaooooo
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