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[Zomba13]

You should calm down a bit. Pretty much everything you wrote has already been adressed in this thread. But this statement is dishonest frog guano and you know it: 'Feminist Frequency doesn't do anything to hurt you'.

Except she was granted to spread her ill-informed, biased views in front of the !UN! .

She wasn't some small blog as you're painting her. She, unfortunately, had massive influence on the industry, on the whole discourse, and that DID hurt gamers.

Receipts please. Show me the games and gamers she hurt.

And to all the "wah wah you damn lubrul, you're points have been refuted already!!!" all of your points were refuted months/a year ago in all the threads we used to have about this stupid group, there were pages and pages or posts showing how you were wrong, with links and everything! But now the lubruls are all gone it's time to trot out the same tired arguements about how feminazis are ruining muh games only this time you have your little GG echo chamber here, on the place that you used to hate.



This is the post I've been looking for for a while: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/game...pgamergate2014.889097/page-309#post-134839993

Part of a 400 page topic on GG. https://www.neogaf.com/threads/gamergate-the-threadening-read-the-op-stopgamergate2014.889097/

That post was used many times to shut down the easily debunked talking points GGers always went for. It's a shame people like that don't post here any more.

 

[SatansReverence]

And to all the "wah wah you damn lubrul, you're points have been refuted already!!!" all of your points were refuted months/a year ago in all the threads we used to have about this stupid group, there were pages and pages or posts showing how you were wrong, with links and everything! But now the lubruls are all gone it's time to trot out the same tired arguements about how feminazis are ruining muh games only this time you have your little GG echo chamber here, on the place that you used to hate.

Tries to call out NuGaf as an "echochamber".

Links to threads from before with moderators who were found to be unjustly banning anyone that wasn't far enough left.

But the combination of victim narrative and complete lack of self awareness is truly amazing.

 

[prag16]

But now the lubruls are all gone it's time to trot out the same tired arguements about how feminazis are ruining muh games only this time you have your little GG echo chamber here, on the place that you used to hate.

Calling current gaf an echo chamber is pretty ironic, especially when linking a thread launched by Besada of all people, an artifact of a time when gaf WAS very much an echo chamber.

I'm glad we can actually sit here and have this discussion without anybody getting banned. Proof that this isn't an echo chamber, and refreshing.

 

[KevinKeene]

Receipts please. Show me the games and gamers she hurt.

And to all the "wah wah you damn lubrul, you're points have been refuted already!!!" all of your points were refuted months/a year ago in all the threads we used to have about this stupid group, there were pages and pages or posts showing how you were wrong, with links and everything! But now the lubruls are all gone it's time to trot out the same tired arguements about how feminazis are ruining muh games only this time you have your little GG echo chamber here, on the place that you used to hate.



This is the post I've been looking for for a while: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/game...pgamergate2014.889097/page-309#post-134839993

Part of a 400 page topic on GG. https://www.neogaf.com/threads/gamergate-the-threadening-read-the-op-stopgamergate2014.889097/

That post was used many times to shut down the easily debunked talking points GGers always went for. It's a shame people like that don't post here any more.

Apologies, but I'm not interested in leading a debate with someone who thinks that tone is appropriate.

Have a fine day

 

[Bryank75]

"Lubruls", high quality arguments there... Hmmm

 

[Zomba13]

Ah ok, so when given facts you attack the arguer and not the arguement? Ok I understand.

Still waiting on those games and gamers that Anita hurt that was brought up as a reason to hate on her and her show and how dangerours she is.

 

[Bryank75]

Ah ok, so when given facts you attack the arguer and not the arguement? Ok I understand.

Still waiting on those games and gamers that Anita hurt that was brought up as a reason to hate on her and her show and how dangerours she is.

It's ironic that you ask such a question here, a place ravaged by the anti-white, anti-male, social justice warrior agenda that feminists such as Anita are proponents of. Gamers, as you may be aware are primarily male and white, next biggest group is male and black.... gaming is what brought us together, nobody cared about what colour skin the protagonist had before this idiotic movement.
I play games with people from Singapore, Brazil, Netherlands, US and many many other countries, by attacking games and gaming culture, divisions and subdivisions were formed, tensions risen and trust abandoned.
Now there are the deluded extreme left, authoritarian and reactive, accusing anyone not falling in line of being 'alt-right', bigots, nazis or sexists. Due process and democracy have been retired, now accusation is as good as guilt and any means is justified in chasing your goals.

 

[bigedole]

I don't agree with Zomba13's tone, it's decidedly negative and doesn't inspire any confidence he's interested in an actual discussion, but I'd love it if someone could address the post he linked or at least what they think is right or wrong with it. Specifically this one:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/game...pgamergate2014.889097/page-309#post-134839993

 

[Bryank75]

I don't agree with Zomba13's tone, it's decidedly negative and doesn't inspire any confidence he's interested in an actual discussion, but I'd love it if someone could address the post he linked or at least what they think is right or wrong with it. Specifically this one:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/game...pgamergate2014.889097/page-309#post-134839993

At the bottom of that post it states that GG is a coordinated attack on women in gaming but none of the real contributers like Amy Hennig and the many others I mentioned in a post above have had any such issues.
It has been quite clear that games media and entertainment media in general has had major issues with remaining impartial ... Just look at Disney film scores recently and how political movements and backlash can have an effect. Also the Gerstman incident.
Most of the abuse received is not verified and it only takes a small number of bad actors to create the illusion of widespread abuse. Sarkeesian also shows in her UN clip that she conflates criticism and 'the daily grind' with more serious abuse and threats. So the waters are quite muddy and she thrives off reported abuse. So she is basically incentivized.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Receipts please. Show me the games and gamers she hurt.

And to all the "wah wah you damn lubrul, you're points have been refuted already!!!" all of your points were refuted months/a year ago in all the threads we used to have about this stupid group, there were pages and pages or posts showing how you were wrong, with links and everything! But now the lubruls are all gone it's time to trot out the same tired arguements about how feminazis are ruining muh games only this time you have your little GG echo chamber here, on the place that you used to hate.



This is the post I've been looking for for a while: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/game...pgamergate2014.889097/page-309#post-134839993

Part of a 400 page topic on GG. https://www.neogaf.com/threads/gamergate-the-threadening-read-the-op-stopgamergate2014.889097/

That post was used many times to shut down the easily debunked talking points GGers always went for. It's a shame people like that don't post here any more.

A few quick notes from my walk back home:

• I am not sure why you are so stuck on this idea that folk here are against liberals when the majority of us are left leaning liberals.
• The "evidence" you are relying on are biased views and only one side of a greater story, both of which have been discussed in depth here. Please read the thread in its entirety as has been suggested at least three times prior as it is clear that you haven't done so.
• Where is this "GG Echo Chamber" that you speak of? Most people here are not "pro GG" or "anti GG", but adults who realize that everything isn't black and white and are able to have a discussion.

Ultimately, your attitude is poor and your tone is hostile. Your arguments are weak and your evidence is flimsy. If you wish to actually discuss this with a decent tone, then I would love that. However, if that is not your want then there is always the other community that you are more than welcome to go join, it may prove to be more in-line with your attitude/beliefs.

 

[Zomba13]

I don't agree with Zomba13's tone, it's decidedly negative and doesn't inspire any confidence he's interested in an actual discussion, but I'd love it if someone could address the post he linked or at least what they think is right or wrong with it. Specifically this one:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/game...pgamergate2014.889097/page-309#post-134839993

I absolutely am aware of my tone and how negative and abrasive it is. I'm taking this tone because I was sick of seeing posts about Gamergate here years ago from users who were just asking questions while linking to things that were being passed around a lot of places like Kotaku in Action where it was basically full of lies and things taken out of context and it was just so tiring seeing the same arguments, questions and links from Junior Members trying to legitimize a hate movement that was (at the time) actively in the process of harassing people.

I know a lot of the new members and people who are only here now the "anti-white, anti-male, feminazi SJWs" have all gone, who have not seen the many (MANY) topics discussing Gamergate (and the ones that were made during the time discussing actual concerns regarding journalism and coverage). It's just when you see a hate movement spring up, then you see that hate movment try and hurt and attack or discredit people, and then you see people jump in saying "hi guys, whats gamergate? I don't know but it seems pretty cool *links to a ton of Kotaku In Action posts*" it just gets annoying and tiring and I thought we were past this. I thought the people genuinely interested in the issues GG came up with to justify their harassment of women had moved on to actually talking about the issues and not grouping behind a toxic hashtag.

At the bottom of that post it states that GG is a coordinated attack on women in gaming but none of the real contributers like Amy Hennig and the many others I mentioned in a post above have had any such issues.
It has been quite clear that games media and entertainment media in general has had major issues with remaining impartial ... Just look at Disney film scores recently and how political movements and backlash can have an effect. Also the Gerstman incident.
Most of the abuse received is not verified and it only takes a small number of bad actors to create the illusion of widespread abuse. Sarkeesian also shows in her UN clip that she conflates criticism and 'the daily grind' with more serious abuse and threats. So the waters are quite muddy and she thrives off reported abuse. So she is basically incentivized.

And yeah, so what if some women haven't been the victim of harassment? That doesn't take away from those that have. And yes, with games coverage we have a single case of a man getting fired because there was a change in management and the new guys didn't understand how shit worked and decided to fire the guy who gave a bad score to a game running ads on their site. That was covered to death at the time. People talk about the crooked media yet don't provide the evidence, the best the provide is the crazy rantings of a scorned ex and how a woman slept/dated a guy who writes about games and proceeded to not actually cover her game while they were together.

Anita ran a successful kickstarter for her thing. She got the funding. She did thing and people liked thing and so she got some success because of the work put into thing. People have gotten a lot more success and into a lot more powerful positions by being worse people and doing worse things. She's just trying in her own way to make gaming more accessible, she doesn't want to take your games away.




And to KevinKeene, still waiting on the gamers and games Anita has hurt like he claimed.

 

[SatansReverence]

And yeah, so what if some women haven't been the victim of harassment?

Do you even read your own posts before clicking post?

Are you seriously completely lacking in self awareness?

The fact that only some women got harassed while others didn't makes it pretty clear that being a woman wasn't the reason for being harassed but you constantly parrot the idea that it was just a misogynistic hate movement.

 

[Zomba13]

Do you even read your own posts before clicking post?

Are you seriously completely lacking in self awareness?

The fact that only some women got harassed while others didn't makes it pretty clear that being a woman wasn't the reason for being harassed but you constantly parrot the idea that it was just a misogynistic hate movement.

So because a hate movement targeted some women and not all of them then it wasn't a misogynistic movement? It's only misogynistic if it went after all the women?

 

[SatansReverence]

So because a hate movement targeted some women and not all of them then it wasn't a misogynistic movement? It's only misogynistic if it went after all the women?

Um, yes?

Does that really need to be spelled out?

Being harassed because you're a shitty human being is being harassed for being a shitty human being. Not because of what's between your legs. We see this kind of victim mentality everywhere. You aren't a "victim" because of your personal choices, you're a "victim" because you belong to an arbitrary group for the purpose of pushing an agenda.

Spoiler

Before you even try, no, GG wasn't a hate movement. Yes, I knew you were going to attempt that conversational sleight of hand before you even read this reply.

Now, were there people who harassed women for no reason other than them being women? Yes, no one would deny that. Were they the overwhelming majority of GG? No... Just no... Not even a tiny minority in fact.

 

[Dunki]

So because a hate movement targeted some women and not all of them then it wasn't a misogynistic movement? It's only misogynistic if it went after all the women?

i think i have to post this again

Full report

https://womenactionmedia.org/cms/assets/uploads/2015/05/wam-twitter-abuse-report.pdf

 

[royox]

Receipts please. Show me the games and gamers she hurt.

And to all the "wah wah you damn lubrul, you're points have been refuted already!!!" all of your points were refuted months/a year ago in all the threads we used to have about this stupid group, there were pages and pages or posts showing how you were wrong, with links and everything! But now the lubruls are all gone it's time to trot out the same tired arguements about how feminazis are ruining muh games only this time you have your little GG echo chamber here, on the place that you used to hate.



This is the post I've been looking for for a while: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/game...pgamergate2014.889097/page-309#post-134839993

Part of a 400 page topic on GG. https://www.neogaf.com/threads/gamergate-the-threadening-read-the-op-stopgamergate2014.889097/

That post was used many times to shut down the easily debunked talking points GGers always went for. It's a shame people like that don't post here any more.

Heh, it's quite ironic that you call NuGaf an echo chamber and after that you link two threads that are literal echo chambers. At least now people with different opinions don't get a ban just for not following the hivemind.

 

[KevinKeene]

I absolutely am aware of my tone and how negative and abrasive it is. I'm taking this tone because I was sick of seeing posts about Gamergate here years ago from users who were just asking questions while linking to things that were being passed around a lot of places like Kotaku in Action where it was basically full of lies and things taken out of context and it was just so tiring seeing the same arguments, questions and links from Junior Members trying to legitimize a hate movement that was (at the time) actively in the process of harassing people.

I know a lot of the new members and people who are only here now the "anti-white, anti-male, feminazi SJWs" have all gone, who have not seen the many (MANY) topics discussing Gamergate (and the ones that were made during the time discussing actual concerns regarding journalism and coverage). It's just when you see a hate movement spring up, then you see that hate movment try and hurt and attack or discredit people, and then you see people jump in saying "hi guys, whats gamergate? I don't know but it seems pretty cool *links to a ton of Kotaku In Action posts*" it just gets annoying and tiring and I thought we were past this. I thought the people genuinely interested in the issues GG came up with to justify their harassment of women had moved on to actually talking about the issues and not grouping behind a toxic hashtag.

I will specifically adress these two paragraphs, because there you're doing what most anti-GG people do: you make a definitive statement and believe it to to be true, unwilling to explore if that's really the case.

Not only do you perpetuate the idea that GG is a harassment movement (it's very much not that). You also throw in KotakuInAction as an indisputable 'evil'. Here's the thing: I spent over a year reading KiA (not anymore because I'm tired of the constant political drama). The one thing that won't happen there, is 'lies' and 'taking things out of context'. Mods over there will quickly close down threads that aren't sourced well.

What annoys people like you when reading KiA isn't a lack of facts. It's the direct, factual, and thus often 'mean' tone people articulate themselves in. That's all. They don't care about gender pronouns, will jokingly use words like 'nigger' or 'fag', or they'll point out an uncomfortable truth without beating around the bush - facts over feelings, you know.

This is what I mean when I hope people would educate themselves. Is KiA a forum for everybody? Its direct, unapologetic tone probably means no. But they don't spread lies, nor do they harass. That's just one of those statements feminists lightly throw around because they know that most won't dare correcting them. Well, I'm not most

And to KevinKeene, still waiting on the gamers and games Anita has hurt like he claimed.

Also to be found in the rest of this thread. Not that it is a fair question, as such infuenve can never be evidenced without a widely applied survey.

 

[llien]

And to all the "wah wah you damn lubrul, you're points have been refuted already!!!" all of your points were refuted months/a year ago in all the threads we used to have about this stupid group,

I'm not that old a gaffer, the first thread somehow related to GG that I can recall was with "human garbage" incident. I couldn't post back then (don't even remember if my registration was accepted), but still remember the... cultural shock, as my mind associates dehumanization of opponents with gravest moments in human history, yet majority eagerly approved her behavior. I can't call the content of that thread a "discussion" either, the very first post set the tone, with all the needed nuances, and it just kept rolling through the whole thread.

The whole GG story stinks on many accounts and I never wanted to dive into its details. If the harasser stats in post #715 are true, dismissing entire story as merely an effort by "some hate group" is dishonest.

Jamie Oliver got death threats for including Spanish sausage into a Spanish dish. Does it make all his critics man haters?

 

[Lupingosei]

I'm not that old a gaffer, the first thread somehow related to GG that I can recall was with "human garbage" incident. I couldn't post back then (don't even remember if my registration was accepted), but still remember the... cultural shock, as my mind associates dehumanization of opponents with gravest moments in human history, yet majority eagerly approved her behavior. I can't call the content of that thread a "discussion" either, the very first post set the tone, with all the needed nuances, and it just kept rolling through the whole thread.

Yes, I remember that one. People were even banned because they said they both played it for their audience. Even the middle ground was not good enough during that time. But then again look at the Kingdom Come Deliverance sales thread in Era and you will understand a lot.

 

[prag16]

Yes, I remember that one. People were even banned because they said they both played it for their audience. Even the middle ground was not good enough during that time. But then again look at the Kingdom Come Deliverance sales thread in Era and you will understand a lot.

Ha, speaking of KiA, my ban in that KCD era topic apparently sparked a thread over at KiA with 150+ comments. Fun times.

 

[MogCakes]

Gamers, as you may be aware are primarily male and white, next biggest group is male and black....

Yeah...nah. That's a falsehood. Gonna need to see some proof if you're touting that around. Male I could believe if it was 10 to 15 years ago, or 20, or 25. Gaming as a predominantly white hobby? That is some skewed perspective you have.

 

[Velius]

I will specifically adress these two paragraphs, because there you're doing what most anti-GG people do: you make a definitive statement and believe it to to be true, unwilling to explore if that's really the case.

Not only do you perpetuate the idea that GG is a harassment movement (it's very much not that). You also throw in KotakuInAction as an indisputable 'evil'. Here's the thing: I spent over a year reading KiA (not anymore because I'm tired of the constant political drama). The one thing that won't happen there, is 'lies' and 'taking things out of context'. Mods over there will quickly close down threads that aren't sourced well.

What annoys people like you when reading KiA isn't a lack of facts. It's the direct, factual, and thus often 'mean' tone people articulate themselves in. That's all. They don't care about gender pronouns, will jokingly use words like 'nigger' or 'fag', or they'll point out an uncomfortable truth without beating around the bush - facts over feelings, you know.

This is what I mean when I hope people would educate themselves. Is KiA a forum for everybody? Its direct, unapologetic tone probably means no. But they don't spread lies, nor do they harass. That's just one of those statements feminists lightly throw around because they know that most won't dare correcting them. Well, I'm not most



Also to be found in the rest of this thread. Not that it is a fair question, as such infuenve can never be evidenced without a widely applied survey.

Dumb question time...

What is KiA?

 

[Geki-D]

Dumb question time...

What is KiA?

Normally Killed in Action. In this case it's KotakuInAction. No such thing as dumb questions.

 

[TheShadowLord]

Dumb question time...

What is KiA?

https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/

 

[KevinKeene]

Normally Killed in Action. In this case it's KotakuInAction. No such thing as dumb questions.

Considering it's written out 1,5 sentences before the abbreviation, it was a little dumb.

 

[Bryank75]

I absolutely am aware of my tone and how negative and abrasive it is. I'm taking this tone because I was sick of seeing posts about Gamergate here years ago from users who were just asking questions while linking to things that were being passed around a lot of places like Kotaku in Action where it was basically full of lies and things taken out of context and it was just so tiring seeing the same arguments, questions and links from Junior Members trying to legitimize a hate movement that was (at the time) actively in the process of harassing people.

I know a lot of the new members and people who are only here now the "anti-white, anti-male, feminazi SJWs" have all gone, who have not seen the many (MANY) topics discussing Gamergate (and the ones that were made during the time discussing actual concerns regarding journalism and coverage). It's just when you see a hate movement spring up, then you see that hate movment try and hurt and attack or discredit people, and then you see people jump in saying "hi guys, whats gamergate? I don't know but it seems pretty cool *links to a ton of Kotaku In Action posts*" it just gets annoying and tiring and I thought we were past this. I thought the people genuinely interested in the issues GG came up with to justify their harassment of women had moved on to actually talking about the issues and not grouping behind a toxic hashtag.




And yeah, so what if some women haven't been the victim of harassment? That doesn't take away from those that have. And yes, with games coverage we have a single case of a man getting fired because there was a change in management and the new guys didn't understand how shit worked and decided to fire the guy who gave a bad score to a game running ads on their site. That was covered to death at the time. People talk about the crooked media yet don't provide the evidence, the best the provide is the crazy rantings of a scorned ex and how a woman slept/dated a guy who writes about games and proceeded to not actually cover her game while they were together.

Anita ran a successful kickstarter for her thing. She got the funding. She did thing and people liked thing and so she got some success because of the work put into thing. People have gotten a lot more success and into a lot more powerful positions by being worse people and doing worse things. She's just trying in her own way to make gaming more accessible, she doesn't want to take your games away.




And to KevinKeene, still waiting on the gamers and games Anita has hurt like he claimed.

Yeah...nah. That's a falsehood. Gonna need to see some proof if you're touting that around. Male I could believe if it was 10 to 15 years ago, or 20, or 25. Gaming as a predominantly white hobby? That is some skewed perspective you have.

https://www.polygon.com/2016/4/29/11539102/gaming-stats-2016-esa-essential-facts

Here in the Polygon demographics we can see that even when including mobile gaming and the gaming provided on platforms such as Facebook, males still make up almost 60%.

Then look at this;

https://www.researchgate.net/public...Display_Units_Using_Targeted_Reward_Mechanics

FarmVille and yoville were among the most popular games with females vs what Ron Swanson and I refer to as proper gaming.... Call of Duty, MonHun, Civ, GOW etc.

 

[Velius]

Considering it's written out 1,5 sentences before the abbreviation, it was a little dumb.

Sorry. I thought maybe I'd seen the phrase but I scanned and couldn't find it.
I should have just found it myself.

 

[Xdrive05]

Just jumping in this thread to give a less invested perspective; one that comes from someone who heavily read Gaf and listened to gaming podcasts like the Bombcast during the whole GG thing, but who didn't dive deep on this topic at all at the time to inform myself thoroughly.

I definitely have the impression that the games media quickly framed this as only a harassment campaign, end of story. And so that's what I thought about it, too. But in hindsight there seems to be a lot more going on, and I frankly wonder why there was so much of a coordinated effort to frame it as such. That framing just doesn't pass the smell test to me, and only exacerbates the claims GGers are making anyway.

As an aside, I also find it interesting that GG is often talked about as the bellwether movement for the pushback against the "SJW" culture warring, which ultimately gets conflated (rightly or wrongly) with the alt right or Donald Trump on the one (right) end of that side of the culture war, or on the other (left) end of the same side being the jaded, disaffected liberals who feel that their "team" had been turned into the new moralistic church ladies they remembered battling against in the 90's; Jack Thompson, etc., and they don't want any part of this new moral panic about video game culture.

That's the general sense I get from watching all of this, and where it has gone in recent years. Just my read of the culture discussing this as a topic.

 

[Kadayi]

As an aside, I also find it interesting that GG is often talked about as the bellwether movement for the pushback against the "SJW" culture warring, which ultimately gets conflated (rightly or wrongly) with the alt right or Donald Trump on the one (right) end of that side of the culture war, or on the other (left) end of the same side being the jaded, disaffected liberals who feel that their "team" had been turned into the new moralistic church ladies they remembered battling against in the 90's; Jack Thompson, etc., and they don't want any part of this new moral panic about video game culture.
.

Of the many hilarious things, I've read in recent years this idea that Gamergate was the spark that lit the fuse that resulted in Trump's election victory is definitely one of the funniest. I think I saw some tweet where Patrick Klepek lamented not doing more to quash Gamergate or some such because of what it had wrought. Which was rib-breaking firstly from the perspective that the movement had that much clout and secondly from the perspective that Klepek could somehow have turned the tide if only he'd just tried harder. Truly the Samwell Tarly of game Journalism.

 

[Geki-D]

I don't agree with Zomba13's tone, it's decidedly negative and doesn't inspire any confidence he's interested in an actual discussion, but I'd love it if someone could address the post he linked or at least what they think is right or wrong with it. Specifically this one:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/game...pgamergate2014.889097/page-309#post-134839993

Lets see then.

• Kotaku shows that Nathan never wrote the articles he was accused of writing
  On March 31, Nathan published the only Kotaku article he's written involving Zoe Quinn. It was about Game Jam, a failed reality show that Zoe and other developers were upset about being on. At the time, Nathan and Zoe were professional acquaintances. He quoted blog posts written by Zoe and others involved in the show. Shortly after that, in early April, Nathan and Zoe began a romantic relationship. He has not written about her since. Nathan never reviewed Zoe Quinn's game Depression Quest, let alone gave it a favorable review.

  [*]Rock Paper Shotgun: This is the only article Nathan ever wrote on Rock Paper Shotgun that mentioned Depression quest.
  [*]GamerGate has not provided any other evidence to back up this assertion

Whilst I'm sure the word "review" was being thrown around, Nathan did write three articles either about, featuring or spotlighting Quinn and besides the one about the games jam, the other two seem to feature Quinn and mention her game in the top spot for seemingly no reason/utterly his personal choice to do so. They did have a relationship, this is fact, and there is evidence that they were in informal, friendly contact and had met before he wrote any of those pieces. Of course it's not conclusive, but then the Grayson - Quinn story was more of a springboard than anything else and Zoe Quinn very quickly became irrelevant.

• Even though Nathan Grayson is the journalist accused of this unethical behavior (and he never actually wrote the articles he was accused of writing), and GamerGate insisting this is about "ethics in journalism", they can't seem to stop talking about Zoe Quinn (not a journalist) and Anita Sarkeesian (also not a journalist)

This seems kind of irrelevant to me because you could chalk this down to a million different reasons, mostly because the women got all of the media attention and therefore so did the people that tweeted at them. Ultimately Gamergate doesn't have a vetting process and anyone can use and direct the hashtag at anyone they want. You'll also notice that through that link, whilst the links are all dead now, it states that Quinn, the apparently most targeted party, the ground zero for GG actually got the less amount of GG related tweets amongst the 3 listed, this shows that, as I previously said, she very quickly became irrelevant.

• Zoe Quinn was and still is today regularly accused of doxxing herself.
  [*]Zoe Quinn was and still is today accused of faking death, rape, and other threats.

Yeah, I'm sure she was, by some people. Maybe? Why not? No source cited, so whatever.

• Zoe Quinn doesn't actually sell the game she's accused of sleeping around to get coverage of. It's a free game about Depression, called Depression Quest, created to help others learn to live and deal with the disease. She does take donations, and was accused of lying about giving those donations to charity. However, the charity confirmed the donations were actually received
  [*]When accusations of those lies first arose, GamerGate started donating to that charity in her place. After the charity confirmed receiving the donations, GamerGate started harassing the charity and threatening it with legal action because they claim they "didn't disclose publicly" they had received donations from her (even though that is not actuall illegal). This is a charity is made up of volunteers and a part-time paid intern, helping people deal with depression

I kept up with pretty much all of the news going around about these people GG was keeping an eye on and not once did I hear any relevant person involved in GG mention this charity stuff. In fact the link given about her lying leads to a KiA thread with very little participation with most of the people who posted demanding this be fact checked and calling for caution because it was unverified. So I guess that's the damning evidence she was hounded over that, huh. So really some people looked into something because whether she did give the donations was unclear, in fact so much so that even the charity didn't know it was from the game, as they stated themselves on FB. ...Okay...

• Zoe Quinn is frequently accused of winning an award (instead of Papers Please) for Depression Quest because she slept with someone. In actuality, her game didn't receive an award, but just an honorable mention. Papers Please did indeed win the award. No evidence backs up the claim she slept with someone to get the....honorable mention.

No actual source for the accusation, so therefore I have no idea how prevalent this apparent accusation actually was. It's quite odd that for the one about the charity at least one link to an actual accusation is actually linked (no matter how weak it is) but for many of these none are.

• Zoe Quinn is frequently accused of being an alien from the planet Zergon Prime 3. This is a lie as she is clearly human

Again, no source given so who knows where this came from, right? Maybe dLMN8R made it up, maybe some random guy on Twitter once said it, maybe I literally just added it in as a joke and it's not even amongst the points I'm responding to... Who knows?

• Zoe Quinn was accused to have "deliberately sabotaged, DDOSed, doxxed, and shut down" TFYC ("The Fine Young Capitalists") because they were "competition" for Rebel Game Jam. The reality is that it's yet another bunch of bullshit accusations against her.

So the only thing this link actually shows is that TFYC said she didn't doxx them. Otherwise the DDOS is still up in the air and either way you swing it, Quinn's behaviour was shitty towards them.

Other bullshit about Anita Sarkeesian

Before going into this, I feel like I need to point out why Anita is mentioned in regards to GG at all, though I think at this point in the thread it's sort of clear; GG was about journalism but many gamers also attached the general defence of gaming against critics to it. In many ways Anita is also tied to journalism simply because games journos took her defence and words as gospel so quickly. It was a massive change for gamers, because in the past the journos had always had their back from people like Jack Thompson and video game hating conservatives but as soon as the same message came from a left leaning view, many jouros pivoted and suddenly the gamers needed to question the morality in what they'd been playing for years with the lack of evidence it affected their actions in the real world once championed by those same journos suddenly being thrown to the winds. The idea that Anita has no place in GG is silly.

• Anita Sarkeesian was similarly accused of faking threats. Still happens regularly.

The link itself literally refutes the point it's making if you read the reponses. The general consensus is that they're real but of little importance, which leads to our next point...

• The FBI confirmed the threats were real, currently under investigation.

So as far as I'm aware, literally no one as a result of GG was ever physically attacked, harmed or killed and no one was ever prosecuted in the name of GG. This, I'm pretty sure, makes GG the most peaceful "hate group" to ever exist. Even then, barely any of the actual harassment has been tied to GG was shown by the WAM! report already posted in this thread.

• Anita Sarkeesian needed to cancel an appearance for a talk at a university because of extremely specific and violent threats against her and the students.

Why this is listed really confuses me. So one random guy sent a letter saying that if the event happened he's kill people. This was in no way attached to GG, and it was considered not credible by police. Really though this just shows the utter lack of backbone from Anita and a unwillingness to present her ideas in the face of it little bit of hardship as many people have received death threats yet considered their message too important to be silenced. I remember back when this happened, TJ Kirk, the Amazing Atheist made a decent comparison with Marilyn Manson pointing out that he received a slew of death threats for a concert in Denver Colorado and still did it anyway. I suggest people watch the video as it's a really good explanation of why threats like this shouldn't shake anyone and why threats in general on the internet are pretty much hot air.

• Reminder: Anita Sarkeesian is not a journalist. She makes videos about video games, and that's it. Any attack on Anita Sarkeesian masquerading as "a fight for ethics in journalism" is automatically and instantly misplaced.

I opened on this so it's already been addressed.

Even more bullshit

So the rest of this stuff is sort of the minor points GG pointed out, rather than go through it all I'd prefer to just link deepfreeze.it which lists a load of shaddy goings on in games journalism. More directly the GamesJournoPros and "Gamers Are Dead" entries. Right now it's late and I have to get up early for work tomorrow.

Otherwise after that the rest has pretty much already been addressed here or it's just personal opinion gushing about how bad GG is and how awesome the people it's "attacking" are. maybe I'll come back and look more into it, but I think I've addressed the biggest, most important points already.

 

[Xdrive05]

Of the many hilarious things, I've read in recent years this idea that Gamergate was the spark that lit the fuse that resulted in Trump's election victory is definitely one of the funniest. I think I saw some tweet where Patrick Klepek lamented not doing more to quash Gamergate or some such because of what it had wrought. Which was rib-breaking firstly from the perspective that the movement had that much clout and secondly from the perspective that Klepek could somehow have turned the tide if only he'd just tried harder. Truly the Samwell Tarly of game Journalism.

Wow, I never knew about that. Not surprised, though. I actually liked some of Klepek's work on GiantBomb but also did get the impression that he was a little self-important to say the least.

I know I've heard multiple academics and commentators, and other public figures, at least strongly suggest some causality between Gamergate and Trump / alt right / whatever other backlash in the culture. And this is from both the people who love it and hate it. The Milo (Greek last name I can't remember) and other public Trump supporters / right-populists will say it as well as people like Sam Harris or Steven Pinker who are very much the opposite. (Just type examples... not sure if Harris and Pinker did specifically, but people in their podcast circle, say on Joe Rogan's podcast, have)

 

[Kadayi]

I know I've heard multiple academics and commentators, and other public figures, at least strongly suggest some causality between Gamergate and Trump / alt right / whatever other backlash in the culture. And this is from both the people who love it and hate it. The Milo (Greek last name I can't remember) and other public Trump supporters / right-populists will say it as well as people like Sam Harris or Steven Pinker who are very much the opposite. (Just type examples... not sure if Harris and Pinker did specifically, but people in their podcast circle, say on Joe Rogan's podcast, have)

I think if anything the backlash is against promoted media narrative. Something that has always been there to a greater or lesser degree but came to the fore with GG because the narrative being spun by the gaming press didn't align with the opinions and beliefs of its audience.
As I said earlier in the thread, you started to see a disconnect between gaming public and gaming press around the period of the ME3 ending debacle and the appearance of the 'entitled gamer' narrative and the Doritosgate furore. I think this largely sowed the seeds for a kickback and rightly or wrongly the shit with Quinn was the flame that lit the fuse on that particular powderkeg.

 

[SScorpio]

Wow, I never knew about that. Not surprised, though. I actually liked some of Klepek's work on GiantBomb but also did get the impression that he was a little self-important to say the least.

I know I've heard multiple academics and commentators, and other public figures, at least strongly suggest some causality between Gamergate and Trump / alt right / whatever other backlash in the culture. And this is from both the people who love it and hate it. The Milo (Greek last name I can't remember) and other public Trump supporters / right-populists will say it as well as people like Sam Harris or Steven Pinker who are very much the opposite. (Just type examples... not sure if Harris and Pinker did specifically, but people in their podcast circle, say on Joe Rogan's podcast, have)

I really don't believe Gamergate had anything to do with Trump. But what we saw was the PC movement reaching a final straw and breaking point.

During the start of Gamergate, it at times felt like gamers were being directly attacked and being told. Hey, that hobby you have? Ya, that makes you a big piece of shit and you should feel terrible.

Can gaming have toxic communities? Absolutely, look at the competitive scene for any game. But then look at the competitive scene for sports and other hobbies and you will find people that are equally offensive.

With Trump, it feels like the same thing happened, but against a wider audience. People are finally fed up and are now told that they are Nazis because they don't have the right opinion.

So, yes Gamergate happened first. But it wasn't really mainstream outside the gaming community. Yes you had BS like that supposed CSI episode, but for all her attempts, Anita doesn't matter. And all of us just ignoring her will make her go away which outside of this thread seems to have happened here.

 

[camelCase]

I listened to the most recent GWJ podcast and I was so put off when the host, Shawn Aldrich took a full 2 minutes to caution you against playing Kingdom Come unless you were familiar with the politics of its creator, some guy whose name I forgot but is a "gamergater." That s an absolutely shitty thing to do, unless for some reason you think the creator of X game should be making less money because of some petty gripe you have with him. Same thing happened with yuka laylee and the other game that featured a political hot button person.

IMO if you can't separate the artist from the art you're immature and nothing but slander and loathing has come from gamergate and its ilk save for the resurgence of gaming websites.

 

[bigedole]

Lots of stuff.

Thanks for the earnest reply. Hopefully Zomba will re-engage with us in a civil way, would leave to see his response

 

[Bryank75]

I listened to the most recent GWJ podcast and I was so put off when the host, Shawn Aldrich took a full 2 minutes to caution you against playing Kingdom Come unless you were familiar with the politics of its creator, some guy whose name I forgot but is a "gamergater." That s an absolutely shitty thing to do, unless for some reason you think the creator of X game should be making less money because of some petty gripe you have with him. Same thing happened with yuka laylee and the other game that featured a political hot button person.

IMO if you can't separate the artist from the art you're immature and nothing but slander and loathing has come from gamergate and its ilk save for the resurgence of gaming websites.

Going to buy the game tomorrow and i'll persuade my brother too... Hehe

 

[prag16]

Going to buy the game tomorrow and i'll persuade my brother too... Hehe

Yeah I'm on the verge of buying it for spite too haha. Not strictly of course, but that's what may push me over the edge.

 

[Bryank75]

Yeah I'm on the verge of buying it for spite too haha. Not strictly of course, but that's what may push me over the edge.

My brother is a huge history buff and would love it, I was always curious but it's just the perfect storm now to push me into buying it on impulse. Can't believe the hysteria online...

 

[Kadayi]

I listened to the most recent GWJ podcast and I was so put off when the host, Shawn Aldrich took a full 2 minutes to caution you against playing Kingdom Come unless you were familiar with the politics of its creator, some guy whose name I forgot but is a "gamergater." That s an absolutely shitty thing to do, unless for some reason you think the creator of X game should be making less money because of some petty gripe you have with him. Same thing happened with yuka laylee and the other game that featured a political hot button person.

IMO if you can't separate the artist from the art you're immature and nothing but slander and loathing has come from gamergate and its ilk save for the resurgence of gaming websites.

Fuck that guy. I used to listen to GWJ a lot (even contributed to their annual fundraiser a couple of times), but they went all in earnest SJW during GG on the listen and believe angle and when I naturally questioned something about it on their forums he permed me straight away because I hurt his fee fees apparently (cos I'm such a big meanie for being skeptical). Which I found pretty hilarious tbh, given he makes a big thing of being all very centred and Dao. Honestly, don't give them the traffic.

 

[SatansReverence]

I listened to the most recent GWJ podcast and I was so put off when the host, Shawn Aldrich took a full 2 minutes to caution you against playing Kingdom Come unless you were familiar with the politics of its creator, some guy whose name I forgot but is a "gamergater." That s an absolutely shitty thing to do, unless for some reason you think the creator of X game should be making less money because of some petty gripe you have with him. Same thing happened with yuka laylee and the other game that featured a political hot button person.

IMO if you can't separate the artist from the art you're immature and nothing but slander and loathing has come from gamergate and its ilk save for the resurgence of gaming websites.

KCD is basically stoking the fires of GG again.

All because the director of the game is supposedly (i.e most certainly isn't) a "racist shitbag".

What's the evidence again? Wore a GG shirt and some swedish death metal band shirt or something. But no, he is literally hitler

 

[MayauMiao]

Fuck that guy. I used to listen to GWJ a lot (even contributed to their annual fundraiser a couple of times), but they went all in earnest SJW during GG on the listen and believe angle and when I naturally questioned something about it on their forums he permed me straight away because I hurt his fee fees apparently (cos I'm such a big meanie for being skeptical). Which I found pretty hilarious tbh, given he makes a big thing of being all very centred and Dao. Honestly, don't give them the traffic.

I remember listening to GWJ podcast before but can't remember why I unsubscribe to them. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[Scopa]

Fuck that guy. I used to listen to GWJ a lot (even contributed to their annual fundraiser a couple of times), but they went all in earnest SJW during GG on the listen and believe angle and when I naturally questioned something about it on their forums he permed me straight away because I hurt his fee fees apparently (cos I'm such a big meanie for being skeptical). Which I found pretty hilarious tbh, given he makes a big thing of being all very centred and Dao. Honestly, don't give them the traffic.

What's GWJ?

Similarly, I stopped listening years ago to the Idle Thumbs podcast after every episode started turning into lecturing the listeners on what to think and what opinions to have. The final straw was when they stated literally that if you didn't agree with what they said you were "a 14 year old in your mum's basement".

I wrote them an email saying that I was thirtysomething years old , can think for myself and they can go and fuck themselves. Podcast deleted. I know they read it because they bitched about it in the following episode.

Anyway, I heard their listenership went down since that time. Gee, I wonder why...

 

[MayauMiao]

What's GWJ?

Similarly, I stopped listening years ago to the Idle Thumbs podcast after every episode started turning into lecturing the listeners on what to think and what opinions to have. The final straw was when they stated literally that if you didn't agree with what they said you were "a 14 year old in your mum's basement".

I wrote them an email saying that I was thirtysomething years old , can think for myself and they can go and fuck themselves. Podcast deleted. I know they read it because they bitched about it in the following episode.

Anyway, I heard their listenership went down since that time. Gee, I wonder why...

What episode they bitched? I want to hear their meltdown.

 

[Cato]

Bought two copies. One for me and one for my daughter and her boyfriend.
I won't have time to play it anytime soon, but just to spite GWJ I wanted to bump the sales needle.

 

[Kadayi]

KCD is basically stoking the fires of GG again.

Honestly, I don't know why. Sure it gets them some infamy and web clicks n the moment, but it's just tanking their reputations even more in the process. After that dismal excuse for a review of KCD at Eurogamer (an abject failure in understanding how goods moved along the silk road), what is a sceptical person's inclination in giving that site or that particular reviewer the time of day going forward? What else are the site editors happy to post up that might not make a lick of sense with even a modicum of attention paid towards it? If the comments are raging against a review especially on a factual basis, mayhap instead a senior editor needs to re-evaluate it no?

 

[Scopa]

What episode they bitched? I want to hear their meltdown.

It was years ago man, but I'm pretty sure it was some kind of live episode, maybe at a convention or something. They didn't mention my letter specifically, but they brought up getting emails telling them to get fucked a week after I sent mine. They addressed it vaguely and in a mocking tone of course, like they didn't care. But, since their subs have nosedived, maybe they should have been open to some constructive criticism, lol.

Also, a couple of weeks before, they read out another email of mine, which was praised, even on here, pointing out some inconsistencies with their GG narrative. Can't remember the details, but I brought up Gertsmanngate. Except they didn't read out my P.S. in which I complimented Danielle something or other (a guest host at the time), but politely pointed out that she doesn't have to find outrage in every single thing that she sees. Just relax sometimes. They didn't read that bit out and you could actually hear him stumble over it when he gets to it and does the quick mental calculation to not read it out. So funny. Too much truth for them to handle in one email.

EDIT: Seriously, what's GWJ?

EDIT: Had to do a quick Google. Gamers with Jobs podcast? Never listened to it myself.

 

[Kadayi]

EDIT: Seriously, what's GWJ?

https://www.gamerswithjobs.com

Also apparently they aren't playing KCD (if anyone cares)

https://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/1301746

 

[Scopa]

https://www.gamerswithjobs.com

Also apparently they aren't playing KCD (if anyone cares)

https://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/1301746

Thanks. Yeah, I just googled it. Heard of it, but never been a listener. Never will be now either.

 

[Bryank75]

https://www.gamerswithjobs.com

Also apparently they aren't playing KCD (if anyone cares)

https://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/1301746

Was reading their comments, apparently a member called OzymandiasAV put a lot of pressure on them, he is a major sjw type by the looks of it and basically waged a one man war there... but this is the same everywhere I guess a small number of hyper-political extremists holding everyone to ransom.

 

[Chairman Tickles]

Some of the user mods for this game on the mod nexus are going to get very politically incorrect, very fast just to stir the pot.

The games media will have a nuclear meltdown regarding KCD over the coming months. Maybe they are looking for controversy yet again, to retain relevance.

Personally, I don't want to relive the trauma of 2014, and what my beloved gaming age became overnight. I lurked here for over a decade, then it became less about games, more about some kind of fringe political cause.

Thankfully most of the scary people have left and gone to resetEra. For the love of games, don't do that to us again, Tyler.