Seems The Arenanet thread has stormed down a bit, but ofcourse, the
Master Baiter has something still to
say to this. She loves summaries as much as i do, so lets atleast give her that, right?
''Since this thread appears to have largely died down, I figured I would throw in my last two cents. This is easily the most contentious thread I've been involved with since joining ERA and it has taken quite a few twists and turns. I made a variety of very long posts because I had too much time on my hands and I wanted to link back to them to summarize my full argument, as well as for ease of convenience for the lowlives on at least four different websites who are currently trying to document this thread and my actions in it. In summary:''
Atleast she can't claim that i won't provide the bigger picture for her here. But my onus is with her ''
argument'':
I feel this basically sums up my argument: women are constantly condescended to, talked down to, and made to feel as though they don't know what they're talking about. Price reacted angrily and insultingly but in a manner that has more contextual nuance than most people are willing to acknowledge. Additionally, social media policies need to be more specific and describe the expectation for the individual's social media presence; people in the entertainment industry have a different relationship to fans and social media than other customer support personnel, and this should be taken into account when drafting and enforcing a policy. Finally, regardless of whether you believe she deserved to be punished or to what extent, the fact that the company immediately terminated her and her coworker who clearly did nothing wrong, without any disciplinary process, exposes both that companies are willing to bend to online hate mobs as long as they're paying customers and that US labor laws are a travesty that offers workers no protections whatsoever.
Alright boo, lets address your argument. And lets just keep ourselves to the things that are bolded, shall we?
- ''Women are constantly condescended to'': This has exactly nothing to do with Price being fired. Price provided a (reasonable) rant, and got (reasonable) feedback back, only for her to react (not reasonable) to Deroir. That's it. That others are bringing in secondary issues, like her history regarding this, for me, thats irrelevant. I judge her upon her original story, the feedback by Deroir, and her reaction afterwards to Deroir. You can bring in as much secondary commentary about it all you want, the simple fact of this encapsulated bit is that she reacted completely inappropiate and through her original story, she did so as a developer, not as a consumer. The whole ''women are constantly condescended to'' is in this case just shifting the core discussion away to include gender issues. This is textbook bad faith posting 101.
- ''Price reacted angrily'': Atleast you agree that she reacted insultingly, but more over, she reacted in an overreacted manner. There is absolutely zero reason to flip out at the kind of feedback Deroir gave to Price. Absolutely zero. If that kind of feedback is already problematic, than people might as well stop providing it. Lets also stop survey's in general because clearly giving this kind of feedback publically is completely out of line.. smh.
- ''But in a manner that has more contextual nuance'': Gurl what nuance? Like i said i only look at the conversation itself and i refrain from adding in history/prior altercations since that only clouds judgements. What i see is a nice rant, nice feedback, and a completely inappropiate backlash by Price. You tell me where i should find nuance for her backlash. Hint: You won't find any. That argument is just a BS excuse to justify the kind of trash talk Price was doing.
- ''Social media policies need to be more specific'': Why should they? Do you really want famous people/industry people be presented with a different rulebook and expection set than everyone else? Because that sounds awfully like The Names's policy on ERA, really. The fact Price used her Twitter like a private outlet is where it goes wrong: Twitter has always been a public conversation space, so, we need to tell people this in a policy now when its common sense? Well, clearly not for Price, since she reacted so inappropiately. But who'se problem is that, really? Twitter's, when they are a public space from day 1? Or... maybe its on Price, for using a public space as a private outlet and completely overreacting to completely harmless feedback? Hmmm... nah, we have to go deeper,, there is more contextual nuance, right? I am all for nuance, but the conversation (Not her history, not all the other details that are thrown in and which i condemn) is a clear cut case: Price reacted wildly inappropiate, talked as a developer of Arenanet when doing her (nice) rant, and as a result of her inappropiate behavior, she (rightfully) gets axed. Because she was clearly speaking as a developer/employee of Arenanet. This isn't next level rocket science, but as clear as a fact as it i can be.
- ''People in the entertainment industry have a different relationship to fans and social media'': Oh, i am aware. They think that Twitter is a private safe space where you can just say whatever. sigh. Now, Twitter does suffer from incredibly damning and disgusting commentary that most of its users get away with and i feel this is where Twitter should take action. But this isn't nothing new. This is a thing on Twitter for years. But instead of working actively with Twitter (Both this user and Price) to get these kinds of hate commentary get filtered out, both do nothing but complain: The aforementioned ''Bark Bark Bark''. This user literally became what she mockingly was posting in bad faith prior.
- ''The fact that the company immediately terminated her and her coworker who clearly did nothing wrong,'': Her co-worker Fries considered Twitter to be private aswell and stuck up for her. Granted, i agree that Fries should not have been fired for having a naive opinion or stucking up for her. He is, what people like to say, ''collateral damage''. But, again, most of the topic is not focused on him, when (arguably) he is the bigger wrong that has to be righted. But why isn't that happening on ERA? Why aren't they writing letters of support to Fries or Arenanet to hire him back? I mean, ERA users clearly had no issue getting a Subnautica dev fired, so its not like they are inexprienced in this matter, right? Or maybe....... its because he is a man? <- You see what this searching and reaching for alternative straws' narrative causes? Because aruging this is as equally moronic as claiming that Price was fired because of her gender. Hence why any reasonable person does not do this.
- ''Exposes both that companies are willing to bend to online hate mobs'': Well, you might have a point here considering people will inevitably bring additional dirt in that escalates the situation (or the sources damn themselves further) but lets not forget that this same ERA was quick to point to ''online hate mobs'' as the cause and reason a transgender game developer self immolated, despite having context in the OP and despite the developer wanting the discussion to be about the lack of proper mental health facilities in the US. Where were you, Master Baiter? Oh that's right, you didn't participate in that thread.
- '' And that US labor laws are a travesty'': Again like the first point, what has that to do with this? Oh, i see what you try to mean here - You mean the pressures of gaming development in general. Well, as much as it has something to do with Price's conversation (Hint: Exactly none) there is a case to argue on a more broader scale when it comes to game development. It is hell, for many people. I am always reminded by the story behind the game Brigador, a indie game with destruction. Well worth a read, if you ask me.
Ofcourse, a
Master Baiter wouldn't be called a master of her craft if it didn't had an appropiate baiting/trolling ending. so
''Thank you for your time and have a barkin' evening, everyone.''
But wait,
''So where are all those jerks from the first few pages saying this has nothing to do with gamer gate and that it wouldn't embolden gators at all? Because by now they've been proven wrong beyond a shadow of a doubt.'' Oh, so you mean similar to how a certain
Kat hasn't showed up ever since her argument got countered accordingly? Yeah... Totally just posting in good faith here folks. Don't report me.
Because really,
''Please do not call transmen "Women with a male identity". That is incredibly insulting. Trans men are men.'', despite that he didn't actually say that anyway, as he said:
''a woman playing a woman with a male identity would be an ethically valid performance.'' <- This isn't about transmen. He was making a general remark,
albeit a little hidden and vague. So rightfully,
''I didn't say that, and it's very disappointing that you'd paraphrase what I said with something offensive, and then get up on a high horse and try to shame me for it. I said "a trans man is born with a traditionally female body, but doesn't feel so internally". I'm sure you can teach me how to split hairs more effectively than "traditionally female body", so next time explain politely instead of rushing out with combative dialogue.'' But obviously, its far easier to just read something negative in this than assume the poster in question is operating with
good intent. Hell, he even admits this himself when he says:
''I was referring to what Scarlet Johansen would be doing in her performance. She would be a woman with a woman's form emulating a male identity. That's what I meant when I wrote it anyway, though I can understand how it would be read the other way. I don't know why these discussions have to be so toxic. I think it's a losing way to engage in dialogue. But you do you...'' But no worries
Kat, he got what you wanted out of it:
A week ban because of ''Transphobia''. Because its somehow
his problem that neither you,
The Little Helper or
The Names either have troubles reading a post correct or assuming he is posting that with malicious intent. But let another
Little Helper just
selectively quote his stuff and make a passing negative remark, i am sure that is totally appropiate and conversing in good faith.
So, why do we need/want those people back on new GAF? They deserve where they are, they got a chance to start clean and they blew it.
Careful now, or ill have to report you for
''transphobia/misogny/inflammatory remarks. History of prior behavior. Account still in the junior phase.'' 