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Fake
Member
I remember someone saying they're enter in the final dev kits builds.
sonomamashine
Member
you got to understand than MS had to do something, and quickly, Ps4Pro was out dude.
bitbydeath
Member
Well, he hasn't been wrong yet.
RuthenicCookie who broke news of Sony not going to E3 says PS5 is a Monster (Details inside)
PS experience returning, Most devs already have dev kits for ps5 ( Spoiler: It’s a monster), Sony prepping hard for ps5 and one of the reason for no e3 next year because they blew all their load this year and got nothing new to show next year (They want to show new stuff at psx) 4K/60 stable...
Imtjnotu
Member
I'm still banking on everything he says. I'd pay $500 for a 12tf machine with everything he statedWell, he hasn't been wrong yet.
RuthenicCookie who broke news of Sony not going to E3 says PS5 is a Monster (Details inside)
PS experience returning, Most devs already have dev kits for ps5 ( Spoiler: It’s a monster), Sony prepping hard for ps5 and one of the reason for no e3 next year because they blew all their load this year and got nothing new to show next year (They want to show new stuff at psx) 4K/60 stable...www.neogaf.com
Imtjnotu
Member
I just hope this price isn't what it is because of the psvr being baked in like the xbone was with KinectWell, he hasn't been wrong yet.
RuthenicCookie who broke news of Sony not going to E3 says PS5 is a Monster (Details inside)
PS experience returning, Most devs already have dev kits for ps5 ( Spoiler: It’s a monster), Sony prepping hard for ps5 and one of the reason for no e3 next year because they blew all their load this year and got nothing new to show next year (They want to show new stuff at psx) 4K/60 stable...
McHuj
Member
I think both Sony and MS will try to get ahead of the leaks. The closer we get to 2020, the likelier we get a full spec leak. Also the closer we get to 2020, the more and more people have to get involved for development of games.
Last time both leaked before the their reveals. The only surprise in Sony's conference was the 8GB of GDDR. There's no way Sony makes it to February without a major leak. The question is are they ok with that leak or do they want to reveal before then?
One way of another, I think we'll have the full specs this year for both systems.
ResilientBanana
Member
Their specs? We've already gotten the scarlet reveal.
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THE:MILKMAN
Member
I already showed the Sony IR Day graph that states they haven't spoken about date yet. Are you referring to that WSJ guy referencing an off the record talk with a Sony rep?
bitbydeath
Member
Sony conference call.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Sony conference call.
This isn't what happened and Takashi Mochizuki is the WSJ guy and other game journalists listened to the conference call and launch timing wasn't discussed. He claimed something else the year before and other journalists called him out on it.
Here is my post from another thread here from back in May when this came up before: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/sony...-june-before-e3.1483255/page-2#post-254362477
To be clear though I think now both consoles are coming late next year most likely. Even though from what I'm seeing right now it will be a terrible time to do it. (Brexit, recession threat, console taxes, US election etc)
DeltaPolarBear
Member
MS doesn't have any advantage over Sony when it comes to tariffs. So despite issues, USA is an even playing field. So both sides have no reason to avoid console release. Even if sales decrease in the US, it is still a market. Just as Japan is still selling PS4 to its own citizens even though it was not as big a market as the PS2 days.
They really have two choices; either assume tariffs are temporary and just sell it with the extra tax added on, leading to political pressure to remove it, or just make the consoles in India or Malaysia and sell those tariff-free to the US. Look, we have Brazil as an example with high game console tariffs. Gamers just have to get used to what their governments have done.
If the United States is losing market power permanently, then that is simply something to take into account and not anything to delay a launch for. There is still the rest of the world to sell consoles to.
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bitbydeath
Member
Thanks, must have missed that.
Do you have a link cause they're claiming it came from Sony.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Sorry, a link to what?
bitbydeath
Member
Oh, I misread about it being a previously calling out and not current.
SpinningBirdKick
Banned
The spec reveals should be interesting.
Sony confirming 14.2 and MS dodging bullets.
The reveals will come so late that it will be obvious we're not getting a March release. This will set up a November release as per RuthenicCookie's fortune telling.
Which will leave E3 for big third party title news (timed exclusives?) and console price announcements. These megatons could easily eclipse the spec reveals imho.
Sony confirming 14.2 and MS dodging bullets.
The reveals will come so late that it will be obvious we're not getting a March release. This will set up a November release as per RuthenicCookie's fortune telling.
Which will leave E3 for big third party title news (timed exclusives?) and console price announcements. These megatons could easily eclipse the spec reveals imho.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Here is what the WSJ guy did the year before:
No, Sony Never Said that PS5 Is Three Years Away
Several outlets reported that Sony said that PS5 is at least three years away, but the house of PlayStation never actually made that point.
www.dualshockers.com
Takashi Mochizuki's WSJ article: https://www.wsj.com/articles/next-playstation-is-three-years-off-sony-says-1527067818 The headline was just plain poor and wrong.
None of this really matters now except to say the fact is Sony haven't spoken about date or release timing yet.
sonomamashine
Member
What are you talking about, you need to chill with these (absurd) assumptions.
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SpinningBirdKick
Banned
I'm speculating.
MS have backed off the performance talk.
So it seems logical they'll avoid talking about direct comparisons, no?
For example, maybe we'll get number of transistors or a One X performance multiplier rather than a TF number.
xool
Member
In other news
www.pcgamesn.com
Zen 3 on 7nm+ in 2020, with added EUV.
Doesn't seem unreasonable that next gen will be built on the same process from day 1.
AMD Zen 3 design finalised on 10% faster 7nm+ node
AMD has now officially announced that the Zen 3 architecture design has been finalised on the 7nm+ process node
www.pcgamesn.com
Zen 3 on 7nm+ in 2020, with added EUV.
Doesn't seem unreasonable that next gen will be built on the same process from day 1.
sonomamashine
Member
They can make a one x comparison and i think they already did say a 4x jump ? I dont remember, but it doesnt mean its 4x jump on the GPU side, PR talk.
Now let me explain why your assumptions are hard to digest:
You telling me 14.2 Tf wich is crazy, assuming that the next AMD GPU
RX 5800 xt 56CU's @ 1800mhz = 12.9Tf
RX 5900 xt 64CU's @ 1800mhz = 14.7Tf
RX ????? xt 72CU's @ 1800mhz = 16.5Tf
So your suggesting that next gen is averaging 64CU's is ridiculous.
joe_zazen
Member
AFAIK, With Stadia, they can double up so their peak performance is 21.4Tf. They really should have one looker for launch.
SpinningBirdKick
Banned
This maybe more easily digestible...
- 80 CU die - the long rumoured "Big Navi" with 5120 shaders
- 4 shader engines
- 1 dual CU disabled per shader engine to improve yield
- 72 active CUs @ 1550
- 14.2 TF
- 7nm EUV
I don't think either next gen machine is going to have less than 66 CU dies with at least 60 being active.
sonomamashine
Member
You read too much SonGoku.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
21.4 TFLOPS for every client connecting and then still scaling it to ton of parallel connections? Mmh, welcome to a huge monthly fee or far less than that per client hehe.
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SpinningBirdKick
Banned
Scarlett is probably going to be a narrower design but will attempt to push the clock speed higher to compensate. Something like 13.0 - 13.5 TF seems like the right ballpark. We may never get the actual number in the reveal. Bullet dodging as I posted earlier.
DESTROYA
Member
Stadia is DOA like most google projects after a while, you don't own the games being all digital and will cost full price.
I have no faith in google sticking with Stadia and still not convinced the whole streaming business without access to expensive high tier internet bandwidth needed to have a good gaming experience that a lot of people don't have.
DemonCleaner
Member
i have a really hard time imagening how such a thing could be possible. It's not as easy like changing from a 0,5GB to a 1GB memory package last minute....
llien
Banned
What is the track record of "red gaming tech"? (this wcc article about Navi 23 on previous page, referenced it):
Navi 20 Series is Known Internally As 'The Nvidia Killer' | EXCLUSIVE
AMD currently have an answer to Nvidia's mid-range offerings with their RX 5700 and RX 5700 XT graphics cards, and in the next few weeks, custom variants o
www.redgamingtech.com
That actually IS the way it is applied in the new games. Only "RT quake" and the likes are "really" ray tracing the scenes, modern games use old rasterization tech with some RT effects (reflections, shadows) with heavy denoising slapped on top.
sonomamashine
Member
One of the worst tech tubers out there, surprised wccf pickd it up.
DJ12
Member
Sooner read his reasonable assumptions based on evidence that is actually tangible (at times circumstantial granted), rather than some pessimist with an agenda who bases his entire argument on the guesswork of some random twitter user who scours benchmarks results and makes stuff up e.g. Ariel being PS5's codename.
llien
Banned
I'm surprised to learn someone is so bad, that even wccf would't pick it up.
wcc has zero credibility in my books.
DJ12
Member
They seem to have a source at AMD (or someone who has a their own sauce and not a youtube channel), they did seem on point with Ryzen and it's launch.What is the track record of "red gaming tech"? (this wcc article about Navi 23 on previous page, referenced it):
Navi 20 Series is Known Internally As 'The Nvidia Killer' | EXCLUSIVE
AMD currently have an answer to Nvidia's mid-range offerings with their RX 5700 and RX 5700 XT graphics cards, and in the next few weeks, custom variants owww.redgamingtech.com
That actually IS the way it is applied in the new games. Only "RT quake" and the likes are "really" ray tracing the scenes, modern games use old rasterization tech with some RT effects (reflections, shadows) with heavy denoising slapped on top.
Bet you like Moores Law is dead who predicted Scarlet would have Zen 3.
Don't think you can argue with RGT's track record with AMD stuff.
sonomamashine
Member
I desagree with SonGoku assumptions (and im not the only one here) you sound butthurt that i didnt took it as gospel.
I posted Moores Law is dead video for Coretecks pov as he was featured in it.
I dont know what "agenda" you are talking about, just discussing what could be possible on a console.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Joy, streaming wars and tons of paid articles and PR to try and normalize and shove it down our throats.
ResilientBanana
Member
I would only hope that AMD's next-gen tech would beat nVidia's current gen tech.What is the track record of "red gaming tech"? (this wcc article about Navi 23 on previous page, referenced it):
Navi 20 Series is Known Internally As 'The Nvidia Killer' | EXCLUSIVE
AMD currently have an answer to Nvidia's mid-range offerings with their RX 5700 and RX 5700 XT graphics cards, and in the next few weeks, custom variants owww.redgamingtech.com
That actually IS the way it is applied in the new games. Only "RT quake" and the likes are "really" ray tracing the scenes, modern games use old rasterization tech with some RT effects (reflections, shadows) with heavy denoising slapped on top.
llien
Banned
It already does.
And if you mean "the fastest card NV has", it might take AMD some time to hire enough people to do many projects in parallel. Unless NV is stuck transitioning to 7nm, I don't expect it to happen for a while.
AMD didn't have the fastest card on the market even back in Fermi times.
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Gamernyc78
Banned
I've read many of your posts and your kind of full of yourself and think everyone is wrong if it contradicts your assumptions lol it's cool to have differing opinions but it's not cool to be a condescending psuedo know it all.
BTW I'm not saying any of you are right or wrong lol
From performance standpoint neither of next gen consoles can really compete with datacenter - Stadia. You can build way more advanced games on Stadia. 10.7tf number is just one instance, for marketing purposes. More power/instances can be used if needed. But nobody will make AAA exclusives for Stadia to show off this power anyway.
Gamernyc78
Banned
Yeah because tht played out exactly how Microsoft stated it would exponentially make Xbox one more powerful. It's easier said than done. Stronger hardware in datacenter side doesn't automatically equate to more powerful games, physics, etc on the gamers side and we've seen examples of this aplenty. It's the opposite Stadia will not be able to compete with local, powerful hardware because of all the variables and issues at play.
DJ12
Member
Yes, you and your alts all disagree with him. I'm not butthurt at all, but it's interesting you don't take stuff as gospel that is harder to disprove than that which you do.
See, agenda.
I believe this so everything else is wrong, even when you cannot disprove it other than spouting out the same tired old drivel you and the alts have been posting since news of "gonzalo" appeared.
Thanks to a fortnight developer, we know the PS5's codename is Erebus (yes they tried to backtrack saying it's a switch codename, obviously forgetting the switch was also listed just above, of and they linked it with PS4 later in the code), not Ariel, which is a pipe dream of the twitter guy.
If you mean Crackdown fiasco then running a game locally + cloud isn't the same thing as running the game just on datacenter and streaming only the display output. The latter is more straight forward and simpler approach.
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Gamernyc78
Banned
I mean in general. Microsoft couldn't get the game running on the cloud solely "the way" they wanted too even if thy tried. Running games from Uber datacenters that make them super powerful sounds good and in theory would be great but it just doesn't pan out that way. We've had games running off the cloud tht worked well enough but never better than localized hardware. When I see this happen then I'll be a believer but it doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. Next Gen systems will fare better than Stadia games no matter how thy upgrade their data centers. Streaming won't be better than localized games for years to come.
Racer!
Member
Care to elaborate?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Agreed. They will more than likely do their own events like in 2013.
sonomamashine
Member
Not at all, i'm just curious how a console could have Big Navi 80CU's 72 active CUs, and how much it would cost, hard to digest.I've read many of your posts and your kind of full of yourself and think everyone is wrong if it contradicts your assumptions lol it's cool to have differing opinions but it's not cool to be a condescending psuedo know it all.
BTW I'm not saying any of you are right or wrong lol
You sound ridiculous, i'm curious what are my alts xD (names please).
here is were you get stupid, i never said it was Ariel or Gonzalo (you forgot Flute), what i said was that Gonzalo made more sense and we can expect something like 5700xt performance.
But MS didn't try to run the game on just datacenter and stream it to your console. They tried to off-load compute intensive tasks like physics and then feed all the data back. It's a completely different animal. And is significantly more complicated than just streaming a compressed video output. Their problem wasn't really datacenter performance but rather trying to send and communicate this huge ass computational data like advanced physics simulations at accaptable latency between datacenters and the console for everyone with consistent results. They ended up with severly scaled back simulations but still done on cloud.
Gaming experience comparison like latency, image quality is seperate discussion. I'm talking about a game that's built and run purely on datacenter. You can build significantly more advanced game on a datacenter. Doesn't mean it will happen because nobody will treat Stadia as some baseline platform unless Google decides to burn some money for an AAA exclusive for Stadia.
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ResilientBanana
Member
That's the point I was trying to make. If AMD's next-gen tech doesn't beat nVidias Current-gen tech l, then they'd be in the same boat as always. The writing on the wall, however, is when nVidia drops their next gen tech I feel like it will take AMD going to 5nm or 4nm to beat it as they seem to lack the skill to beat nVidia on the same playing field. Same goes for Intel.
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