Mask Efficacy |OT| Wuhan!! Got You All In Check
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Sakura
Member
Yeah the store I work at has seen a 5% drop in customers YOY for March so far. The clothing store next door has been harder hit apparently. And we only have 6 cases in our prefecture.
This is why the idea that ending lockdowns or people going back to work will somehow stop a recession is ridiculous. The economy is fucked until the virus is dealt with.
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Liljagare
Member
It is literarly in the OP the date we knew. So i am short 7 days.
So sorry, but the response is still moronic and too late.
Bullet Club
Banned
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Liberty4all
Banned
So Ontario shut down today dramatically in a press conference held by the Premier. Everything closed except for "essential services" a list that would be forthcoming.
here is the list: https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2020/03/list-of-essential-workplaces-2.html
here is the list: https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2020/03/list-of-essential-workplaces-2.html
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
autoduelist
Member
It's all connected, though. The person who had been working at the Ventilator company wasn't doing it for nothing. They did it so they could afford food, home, and completely unnecessary widgets. The widget factory guy spent his excess cash on thots. Thot girl spent her money on makeup. The lady hawking makeup at the mall spent money on shoes.
That is to say, shit you consider completely frivolous and trash is what gets someone else up at 6:30 to get ready to work. I'm not prepared to define 'essential goods' for everyone, and quite honestly, a world in which all goods are essential sounds like the setup for a dystopian novel. We are on a gaming forum fetishing plastic energy and time suckers, after all.
And while a shitload of that is crass consumerism, and we can shit on that all day, if the shoes stop coming the thot goes broke and the ventilator dude doesn't get his completely unnecessary widget thar he really wants. And that other guy loses his temper because he didn't get to kill space aliens last night.
I can bitch about consumerism all day. I spent years practically off the grid, and while i have too much junk now you don't have to sell me on the value of minimalism. But with going on 10 billion people in the world, we can't just let our economy go to shit. The US is fortunate due to land/resources that we can be self sufficient in a pinch, but that doesn't mean we throw our economy overboard.
I also don't think it's true people aren't buying stuff. We are. Tp, oreo cookies, extra food, water... downloading movies and games and books. I don't think 99% of people are learning we don't need shit.... rather, i think most people are absolutely aching to go out to the mall and splurge in consumerism withdrawal.
You say: "You're asking people to sacrifice so that consumerism gets back to where it was before, but the harder the disease hits, the harder it will be to sell any of this trash."
Nah, i'm saying people want to get back to work. They want to be social. They want to buy shit. Just look at the stupid spring break stuff. Not everyone is scared, or hiding. I have a family member who proudly helps keep trucking going to a major food retailer. I know a couple medics proud to be at work. I know a bartender who is itching to get back to serving people. People miss 1 month ago.
What i'm saying is that i don't think people are learning 'to do without', but rather, 'holy hell do i miss how good we had it' and the way to keep that is to not destroy the economy in the process of preventing pandemic. There is balance to be found.
Like i said, i spent many, many years buying very, very little. I don't particularly like defending consumerism. But i recognize it is what ultimarely feeds billions, and it works. I'd rather consumerism than mass food riots and a breakdown of society.
gamerMan
Member
You don't need draconian measures. You just have to start mass testing immediately to stunt exponential growth from happening in the first place. Imagine if you slowed a rocket at takeoff. How high would it go? If we shutdown the border to China and began testing immediately we wouldn't have so many people transmitting it. The number of people transmitting it is your initial velocity, which is a function of people coming in at the border and people inside who have it.
It's was better to spend money on testing everybody in the start than giving $1000 handouts and socialized bailouts to large industries that participated in stock buybacks.
Also, we aren't even comparing population sizes. We are normalizing everything and looking at the growth curve which doesn't depend on population size. It depends on rate of growth. Once you see the curve begin to bell down, you have slowed the rate of growth and can restart your economy.
You don't want to shut down your economy completely. That would be disastrous. As soon as the curve comes down, we put in social distancing measures in public areas (thermometer checks and so forth) to control its spread until we get a vaccine.
Amen ! And that's the way the cookie crumbles.
I don't think this is gonna work, you need full lock down is my opinion to get enough head room to start what you described in your last graph. So you need a lock down for at least 2 - 3 months after that you can do all the social distancing and other measures, maybe even mini lock downs are needed to regulate. If a country is big enough you can lock down states individually, but cut travel between them, create mini economics.You don't need draconian measures. You just have to start mass testing immediately to stunt exponential growth from happening in the first place. Imagine if you slowed a rocket at takeoff. How high would it go? If we shutdown the border to China and began testing immediately we wouldn't have so many people transmitting it. The number of people transmitting it is your initial velocity, which is a function of people coming in at the border and people inside who have it.
It's was better to spend money on testing everybody in the start than giving $1000 handouts and socialized bailouts to large industries that participated in stock buybacks.
Also, we aren't even comparing population sizes. We are normalizing everything and looking at the growth curve which doesn't depend on population size. It depends on rate of growth. Once you see the curve begin to bell down, you have slowed the rate of growth and can restart your economy.
You don't want to shut down your economy completely. That would be disastrous. As soon as the curve comes down, we put in social distancing measures in public areas (thermometer checks and so forth) to control its spread until we get a vaccine.
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llien
Banned
Said someone in Italy some time ago.
Oh, and in Spain also.
Oh, and UK BoJo blantly said, fuck it, herd immunity. Remind me, why did he reverse it on 16th of Feb?
Just for HOW LONG could grown ups be in denial about seriousness of the crisi, including fucking country leaders is beyond me.
Actually I am 40
it became quiet clear after seeing China unfold in January, we aren't all that bad 
but I am not in my government, I do agree they move to slow, if that's because of age I hope the world changes and let's fresh young blood into governments. It became clear that they didn't follow China as closely, which would be easy with something like the internet.
Because my government also reacted slow..
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llien
Banned
How did young governments that, as a bonus, are free from Patriarchy (all coalition parties in Finland are lead by women) react please?
Good point ! maybe it's the way we teach? Would mean whole societies would need reform .. hard task , as most are methods, physiology ..How did young governments that, as a bonus, are free from Patriarchy (all coalition parties in Finland are lead by women) react please?
womfalcs3
Banned
How are there cruise ships operating right now: https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/cruise-ship-flu-symptoms-florida/index.html
"A cruise ship with 42 people experiencing flu-like symptoms is headed to Florida"
"A cruise ship with 42 people experiencing flu-like symptoms is headed to Florida"
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S
Steve.1981
Unconfirmed Member
Well it's been an interesting morning and I haven't even finished my coffee yet. People phoning up in a panic because their car is due it's MoT test in a couple of months, but they want it done now before we close on them. Others that were booked in this week cancelling because they now want to self-isolate. One guy who hasn't stepped foot in the garage in about 10 years coming back to check that we will be staying open. I guess maybe his new garage has closed, so he came back here, who knows?
Mad times. At least the gestapo didn't hassle me for being out walking yet. The roads are very quiet though. Even quieter than during school holidays. It feels weird.
Mad times. At least the gestapo didn't hassle me for being out walking yet. The roads are very quiet though. Even quieter than during school holidays. It feels weird.
llien
Banned
It may be me being biased, but all the "improvements" I have seen so far, were rather steps forward.
From invisible overlords picking up that werid Greta girl, daughter of multi-millionaires that is now authorized ot teach the world about climate, to "progressives" attempting to shut down debates, pushing for "moral truth" and "winning" debates by smearing opponents to that pretty Finnish prime minister who hasn't have a single original initiative.
What is the idea of "people of wrong age" holding back the world even based on? An attempt to exclude sizable part of the population from the debate?
llien
Banned
Some smart people have even put up a graphical tool that estimates how hospitals across the US will be swamped under different scenarios, here https://covidactnow.org/
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
You're just so desperate to put the boot into Boris based on speculation. The plan to manage the way people acquire the virus and get over it was, on the evidence at the time, perfectly sensible. You need to learn to consider the decision and the context in which it is made without obsessing over the political party of the person making that choice, and you need to learn that in a situation like this there is no magic 'nobody suffers' button - every choice is a bad one and it's just about choosing the least shitty one. Fucking politics. Jeeez.
WinterIsComing
Member
And my brother's having a bad cough, got tested and it was inconclusive. He'll be quarantined for 14 days... he has asthma, but since this is just a flu, he'll be alright even if it turns out he really has it, right? Right? RIGHT? Guys?...
GHG
Member
I'm sorry but these people deserve the nightmare they are about to live right now.
They shouldn't even send medical help to cruise ships anymore, waste of important resources. These people are complete and utter idiots.
H
hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
How did young governments that, as a bonus, are free from Patriarchy (all coalition parties in Finland are lead by women) react please?
I would totally hit that.
nush
Member
Business opportunity right there mate. For most of an MOT you don't need to go to a garage (I am not a mechanic) so scoop up that business for yourself and make home calls. Car on the drive, pass the keys through the letterbox. markup on a call out charge, parts and labor and you've got a sound customer base built up.
ricardo_sousa11
Member
There is only two ways out of this while saving the economy.
Either you test everyone, know where the infected are, and quarantine them.
Or you quarantine everyone (mandatory) for 1-2 months and risk a much higer death count and expect people to not leave the house, which wont work.
most countries are selecting the 2nd option, thinking it will be cheaper, it wont, it wont because people do not stay home, it wont because the death toll is much much higher, it wont because even if you quarantine everyone, you still need to test them.
Do not think of solving this problem in a realistic manner, this requires measures that we would think would never happen. Over 100M people are in quarantine in EU alone! This was unthinkable even a few weeks back.
Either you test everyone, know where the infected are, and quarantine them.
Or you quarantine everyone (mandatory) for 1-2 months and risk a much higer death count and expect people to not leave the house, which wont work.
most countries are selecting the 2nd option, thinking it will be cheaper, it wont, it wont because people do not stay home, it wont because the death toll is much much higher, it wont because even if you quarantine everyone, you still need to test them.
Do not think of solving this problem in a realistic manner, this requires measures that we would think would never happen. Over 100M people are in quarantine in EU alone! This was unthinkable even a few weeks back.
flibbertyjibbert
Banned
#notgoingbankruptforthesniffles
eot
Banned
He's a long standing member of the Olympic committee
betrayal
Banned
Testing all inhabitants of a country is MUCH cheaper (and does nothing at all and is useless) than a two-month lockdown. In addition, there may be 10-20% of people who do not respect the lockdown. Nevertheless, the spread of the virus is very strongly contained.
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This is how it will go eventually but right now they need to buy some time to come up with a fast and easy test that can be mass produced on a absolutely huge scale.
The quarantine is working now by reducing the opportunity for the virus to spread (even a 25%, 50% or whatever reduction will have a big impact) and this is buying time for those people who are developing tests, treatments and other infrastructure etc.
Things will die down a bit soon and then we will be trying to catch and shut down isolated outbreaks until there is some kind of vaccine.
I doubt they are in denial as such. They will be at least keeping an eye on the future though.
I would not want to be in their position right now as they are surely being pushed into decisions that are basically weighing people's lives against the potential future of the country. Maybe they are all psychopaths or something so it's OK for them but no way I would want to be in that spot.
Be careful listening to anyone other than doctors or experts:
www.nbcnews.com
A man died after ingesting a substance he thought would protect him from coronavirus
The man and his wife thought the ingredient, used to treat sick fish, could prevent the disease.
www.nbcnews.com
GamingKaiju
Member
I won't quote the guy but who let the China cuck into this thread claiming the wider world had months to prepare 
I would love to know how we were supposed to prepare for a outbreak.
5 months ago something like this was inconceivable and people would have being laughed at for suggesting it.
Who wouldn't
I would love to know how we were supposed to prepare for a outbreak.5 months ago something like this was inconceivable and people would have being laughed at for suggesting it.
Who wouldn't
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crowbrow
Banned
There are definitely countries which seemed better prepared than others or at least handled it much better than others. South Korea on the positive side, Italy on the negative.I won't quote the guy but who let the China cuck into this thread claiming the wider world had months to prepare
5 months ago something like this was inconceivable and people would have being laughed at for suggesting it.
Who wouldn't
GymWolf
Member
now you only have to worry about spiders or little animals that can kill in your house with one venomous bite
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
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GamingKaiju
Member
Without a doubt some Countries have handled it better. I just don't know what people expect, do they expect tanks rolling down the road at the first sign of a confirmed case with a mandatory lock in
A lot of it comes down to the cultural aspect of Countries, some Eastern Asian countries people have a habit of wearing masks in public so they don't spread common colds, in the west people will spread that shit around. In the US you have collage students defying orders and partying now they have it. In the UK people were heading to parks over the weekend and cramming into trains with little protection.
My point is, without attacking the outbreak with a hammer approach on first contact it was always going to spread.
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just to add but also if you base your response on false information like it's just a flu and no human to human transmission then any protocols that are drawn up would be thrown outta the window and then you are behind the curve using reactionary measures just like we're seeing in the west.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
llien
Banned
First waiting for people die in higher numbers and only then resorting to stricter measures hints at it.
I don't have any feelings about Boris (he is, perhaps, mildly amusing), certainly no negative feelings.
If it was "based on evidence" please remind me, what kind of evidence it was.
And exactly what "new" evidence he got by 16th of March to 180 on it.
He acted the "oh, it only elderly people" way. And then figured "fuck, you bloody "experts", it's not". I don't see any other sensible explanation of reversing "herd immunity" approach.
I don't know whom you are talking to.
Easy choices are not hard to made.
Obviously.
I'm not the one calling for "easy" choices, on the opposite:
My "simple" solution to the Covid-19 problem, which I thought was obvious, but nobody dares to voice
Situation Virus life risk: up to 10-20% dead in the absence of medical assistant, not counting people dying in riots/marauders/protests spreading: luckily, this shit cannot simply travel with wind for tens of kilometers and can be localized The Solution We are at war. Government assumes...
Pretty much any heterosexual male would (evolution, doh) and likely some gay ones too. And, I suspect, even some otherwise non-lesbian women.
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Be careful listening to anyone other than doctors or experts:
A man died after ingesting a substance he thought would protect him from coronavirus
The man and his wife thought the ingredient, used to treat sick fish, could prevent the disease.
That story is less *Be careful listening to anyone other than doctors or experts* more *Don't fucking self-medicate with random shit*
anthraticus
Banned
That's the definition of plain Jane. Not saying I wouldn't, but also not exactly something I'd make a point about or bring to anybody's attention either.
Flintty
Member
Two cases here:
1) Albert is a grumpy bastard and doesn't want to listen to Gov advice. He is at risk because of an underlying condition but he leaves the house and mingles at bowles anyway. He gets CV19 and dies. His fault, tough. But his intensive care put additional pressure on health services. Not good.
2) Timothy is a 21 year old and is healthy and low risk.Ignore gov warning to go to a rave. Picks up CV19 but doesn't have symptoms. Goes to see granny who is elderly. She dies. So does the old man he stood next to at the bus stop. Timothy is a selfish cunt and has further spread the disease, killing people and putting pressure on health services.
This isn't nannying.A governments prime responsibility is to protect its people and that's what they're trying to do. If people don't want to be made to be safe, fine. But it's not about them. It's about the other people they are putting in danger. So they need to suck it up and stop being selfish cunts.
Pasedo
Member
Sorry if it's been raised here already but has anyone noticed that there seems to be a lack of content, video or forum conversation based, of people who have contracted coronavirus talking about it. Is the internet trying to scrub them out. What are they hiding? It would be good to hear from everyday people who have contracted it to know what it's like.
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