Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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IntentionalPun said:
Prediction: Sony will release some of their first party games 1+ year from launch.. that's far more likely, and is the actual pattern possibly developing.

I'd love for day one PC releases myself but I don't see Sony doing that. And for all we know once PSNow is more mainstream capable they might stop doing PC releases altogether and promote their streaming service.
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Waiting a year, two or even three is well worth to play the games at 1080/1440/4K at 60/120/144FPS, which is what the PC crowd wants, as oppose to pathetic 720p@30 PSNow offers... Seriously, it just all the way better to just get a used PS4, play those few exclusives, and sell everything back instead of jumping on PSNow. It needs to seriously step up if it wants to be relevant on PC market, which is way more demanding than console market.
 
Rusco Da Vino said:
You missed this real dev talking about the PS5/XSX and the 1.8tf of difference, didnt you?

BhOsdBH.jpg
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Real Developer? Have you looked at Breakfall Studios games? Tiny indie games. Doesnt look like they do much pixel pushing period.

Sorry not gonna take that devil's point of view as fact.

When the heavy hitters start putting out games and making comments from the top down I'll be more inclined to listen.
 
SonGoku said:
It isn't boosting the way you implied and it doesn't have a traditional base clock either
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Cerny shouldn't have used the word "boost", it should know some would cling onto that and claim it would behave like traditional boost clocks. He could have called it, say, BUFFALO. "PS5 will BUFFALO at 2.23GHz most of the time, but sometimes it will nimble at some grass where drop down to a minimum of 2.1GHz" or something. Would be amusing at least :)
 
splattered said:
Real Developer? Have you looked at Breakfall Studios games? Tiny indie games. Doesnt look like they do much pixel pushing period.

Sorry not gonna take that devil's point of view as fact.

When the heavy hitters start putting out games and making comments from the top down I'll be more inclined to listen.
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Sure... only Dynamic Voltage Games are real dev.
 
~Fake said:
PS5 listed for PC on Amazon France.
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That must mean all of these listings weren't PC but rather PS5 games... Sony charging everyone again to play Days Gone, Nathan Drake Collection, GT Sport and others... confirmed? I'd say that's worse than ps5 games getting PC ports.
 
ethomaz said:
Stange/bad?

It is what it is.
If you are all the time at that clock it is not boost lol

PS5 GPU normal clock is 2230Mhz which run all the time if not reach the capped power draw.... it downclock depending of the workload/power draw.

Pretty simple.
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Why does Sony describe it like a boost mode then instead of throttling?

It cant really be base clock if it cant sustain that clock.

Then we went with a variable frequency strategy for PlayStation 5 which is to say we
continuously run the GPU and CPU in boost mode.
We supply a generous amount of electrical power and then increase the frequency of GPU and CPU until they reach the capabilities of the system's cooling solution.
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If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck - AND if Mark Cerny say its a duck - chances are pretty high that its a duck.
 
nosseman said:
Why does Sony describe it like a boost mode then instead of throttling?

It cant really be base clock if it cant sustain that clock.



If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck - AND if Mark Cerny say its a duck - chances are pretty high that its a duck.
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You continue not understanding how the tech works even after I explained three times lol
 
splattered said:
That must mean all of these listings weren't PC but rather PS5 games... Sony charging everyone again to play Days Gone, Nathan Drake Collection, GT Sport and others... confirmed? I'd say that's worse than ps5 games getting PC ports.
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Oh wow! Talk about reaching.
It means somebody fucked up at Amazon France. That's all.

Edit:

icerock said:


Shepshal inviting them on Discord like right now
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Turns out it might have been malicious even.
 
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Imtjnotu said:
My pro is in afterburner mode. It's louder in the menu than the actual game lol
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Cerny mentioned that that menus are taxing to GPUs usually because frames usually go very high . PS5 method of fixed power budget can fix this very issue.

It seems Sony has gone to a great length to ensure PS5 cooling and thermals would be in a top shape.

Im also glad that SSD will finally fix the current PS4 issue with taking long time copying patches.

I can't wait to see the actual console now .
 
Neither Sony or MS is making money selling consoles, they're making money by having ppl in there's eco system. Sony can launch every game in pc via a Sony PlayStation store and make as much money or even more
 
splattered said:
Real Developer? Have you looked at Breakfall Studios games? Tiny indie games. Doesnt look like they do much pixel pushing period.

Sorry not gonna take that devil's point of view as fact.

When the heavy hitters start putting out games and making comments from the top down I'll be more inclined to listen.
Click to expand...

You will never hear or read about developers (third party) complaining about or directly comparing the PS5 and XBox Series X.

Even when Xbox One and PS4 was released and the difference was quite big the developers shut up and made the best with what they had.

As a developer you just cant take the risk of making Sony and/or Microsoft look bad and they are dependent on a good relationship with them both.
 
nosseman said:
Why does Sony describe it like a boost mode then instead of throttling?

It cant really be base clock if it cant sustain that clock.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck - AND if Mark Cerny say its a duck - chances are pretty high that its a duck.
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I actually took it as him admitting that the GPU's sweet spot was not at 2.23 . So when he says boosted he means overclocked but did not want to say that since it has negative connotations.
 
ethomaz said:
You continue not understanding how the tech works even after I explained three times lol
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You are not really explaining - you are just saying the opposite of what Cerny said and what the majority of the gaming press are writing.

It boost mode - not exactly like the Turbo we see on PC:s with a relatively low base clock and high turbo/boost clock - but boost nonetheless.
 
nosseman said:
You are not really explaining - you are just saying the opposite of what Cerny said and what the majority of the gaming press are writing.

It boost mode - not exactly like the Turbo we see on PC:s with a relatively low base clock and high turbo/boost clock - but boost nonetheless.
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Yeap it is boost that downclock the frequency :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Maybe it is true that some people up a ladder but reach the down lol
 
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IntentionalPun said:
Eh... why would that upset you as a consumer that people get to play games on PC?
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Multiplatform games are notoriously bad at optimization and quality control. You can look at Ubisoft games, EA's multiplatform games and well pretty much every non-japanese third party games and see how they ship with dozens and dozens of bugs. It's not because those devs are somehow less talented than Sony or other third party devs, it's just that they are too busy making games for multiple platforms.

Then there is the profit aspect of multiplatform dev. Sony is releasing these games on PC to maximize profits. We know what happens when games are forced to ship in incomplete state. We have seen Anthem, Mass Effect Andromeda and well pretty much every holiday game ship with bugs, and limited scope. If Sony as a company is shifting towards profits over quality then soon we will be seeing games that are far less ambitious and far more buggy because they have to ship at the end of the fiscal year just like all other third party published games.

At the end of the day, if Sony's goal is to sell software instead of hardware then the best way to go about doing that is to ship more games, take the hit on quality because they will end up making more money by shipping on multiple platforms anyway. It's worked for Ubisoft with their yearly buggy and exceedingly mediocre AC games, and those yearly CoD games which still seem to play the same year after year. Their biggest innovation in 14 years since CoD4 is Warzone. A battle royale mode they aped from PubG. I dont want Sony's first party studios to suffer the same fate.

One has to wonder if the execs who are pushing for more profits will be ok with Sony devs taking 6 years to make Ghost of Tshushima, 5 years to reboot GoW, and 8 years to make Days Gone from scratch.

Yes, it's the worst case scenario, but just look at the latest leaks about how Rocksteady's pitch to make Superman was rejected by WB even though Rocksteady had given them 3 highly successful games in a span of 6 years. Even successful studios cant get what they want. What makes sony so different now that they are chasing short term profits like everyone else?
 
It's all relative. A frequency of 2.23 ghz was considered impossible until Cerny said otherwise. So it is "boosted" in a way, as it is clocked much higher than normal....

But it doesn't mean that it is using the PC traditional "boost mode"
 
~Fake said:
If this means the PS4 PRO mode will not get the PS5 enhancements?
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I'll just give you an example:

Nioh 2 is a PS4 Pro enhanced game which can run at 1080p/60fps or say 1620p/30fps on PS4 Pro. This game on PS5 boosted BC mode will run full at 4k/60fps.

Another game say "B" which is also PS4 Pro enhanced which runs at 1800p/30fps on PS4 Pro might not work well with PS5 boosted BC so it will run on PS5's PS4 Pro legacy BC mode at same 1800p/30fps as PS4 Pro.

Hope this clarifies any confusion. Majority of the games work with boosted BC but in cases where some don't, they have legacy BC modes for them.
 
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splattered said:
Real Developer? Have you looked at Breakfall Studios games? Tiny indie games. Doesnt look like they do much pixel pushing period.

Sorry not gonna take that devil's point of view as fact.

When the heavy hitters start putting out games and making comments from the top down I'll be more inclined to listen.
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear you do not like what he is saying. This developer is just expressing his expert opinion about the matter.
Are you a developer? :)

Here is another interesting post from this real developer 👇

oVifq0U.jpg

22WCwql.jpg
 
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kotaku.com

18 Months After Red Dead Redemption 2, Rockstar Has Made Big Cultural Changes - Kotaku

Last fall, nearly a year after the release of Red Dead Redemption 2, top Rockstar executive Jennifer Kolbe sent out an email to staff with a list of
kotaku.com kotaku.com

One plan that management has laid out for the next game, a new entry in the Grand Theft Auto series, is to start out with a moderately sized release (which, by Rockstar's standards, would still be a large game) that is then expanded with regular updates over time, which may help mitigate stress and crunch.
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Looks like GTA 6 is confirmed.
 
MisterXDTV said:
It's all relative. A frequency of 2.23 ghz was considered impossible until Cerny said otherwise. So it is "boosted" in a way, as it is clocked much higher than normal....

But it doesn't mean that it is using the PC traditional "boost mode"
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Yep. Cerny specifically said 'continuous' boost and DF confirmed devs are running at max clocks.

rpTanQY.jpg
 
SgtCaffran said:
Okay so again, this is not about MS > PS or PS > MS. At least, not for me.
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of course not that's why you compare them in the first place. :messenger_grinning_squinting:
SgtCaffran said:
Well maybe I don't fully understand it, maybe you don't fully understand full audio simulation (maybe neither of us!).
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i'm musician so i use convolution reverb in my DAW, actually i can recreate reverb(not convoluted) from just short delays.
SgtCaffran said:
Let's go a bit deeper, shall we. So how I understand convolution reverb is that you basically take a (recorded) known impulse response from a room/environment and from that you are able to calculate for any audio source how it would sound if both the source and receiver are in that environment.
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that's correct but that's how to calculate responces from enviroment(not in general how reverb occurs).
let's dive deeper how reverb occurs and i'll try to compare it to RT:
  1. traversal of a sound wave(traversal of rays 1 ray per pixel)
  2. wave meets the obstacle(intersection testing)
  3. bounces of an obstacle because sound is a wave with different range in frequencies every frequency bounces differently in time such creating multiple very short(ms) delays(intersection calculations).
  4. after bouncing sound waves diffuses then bounces of another obstacle then diffuses even more in such cycle it creates reverb higher frequencies diffuses faster then lower(RT reverb occurs)
SgtCaffran said:
However, the impulse response is dependent on the source/receiver position. So in order to truly simulate room acoustics, you would need to compute the impulse reponse for many different source/receiver positions. This is exactly what Project Acoustics does.
So without a prebaked model of the room acoustics, you would need to compute the impulse response for the gamers position and the current sound source positions in real-time! Now I believe the Tempest Engine audio chip is very very powerful but I doubt that it is able to do this. Calculate the convolution reverb for many sounds with a known impulse response? Sure. Compute the impulse response for the current source/receiver positions in real-time? I don't expect that to be possible.
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of course not like i said before there's no special hw inside xseriesx for this technology except it's proprietary api for ms but that's doesn't stop sony for doing something like this we don't even know capabilities of RT-audio and how it sounds combined with HRTF and locality, ambisonics over hundreds of hq sound sources.
SgtCaffran said:
Now for me several questions remain standing:
- How does RT audio fit into this? (can it be used to compute an impulse response for a room? How well is raytracing suited for wave behaviour?)
- What is the difference in audio experience when comparing fully simulated room acoustics and room audio based on a single (recorded or computed) impulse response?
- Would it be possible to combine reverb from a single impulse response with raytraced direct or 1st/2nd order reflections to enhance the effect?
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reflections, occlusions, diffusions, absortions of different materials etc.. and other properties of sound movement would simulate similar or better results in combination with RT audio without needing to precompute impulses(this solution is definetly more expenssive) not sure how wave behaviour would be achieved kind a like foveated traversal of audio maybe? i guess both solutions has theyr pros and cons though i think Tempest 3d audio is more flexible because it have such powerfull DSP chip, devs could do much more then xseriesx i guess that's why ms using theyr aproach which isn't bad.
 
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Rusco Da Vino said:
Sorry to hear you did not like what he is saying. This developer is just expressing his expert opinion about the matter.
Are you a developer? :)

Here is another interesting post from this real developer.

oVifq0U.jpg
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but but 5gbps is way slower than 550gbps!!!

i think people still dont realize what the ssd and i/o enhancements are going to allow devs to do on the ps5.
 
SlimySnake said:
Multiplatform games are notoriously bad at optimization and quality control. You can look at Ubisoft games, EA's multiplatform games and well pretty much every non-japanese third party games and see how they ship with dozens and dozens of bugs. It's not because those devs are somehow less talented than Sony or other third party devs, it's just that they are too busy making games for multiple platforms.
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I mean; not a terrible point. It is easier to focus on one system and polish your game. I have not had any major issues with any 3rd party games though.. think you are exaggerating a bit here IMO.

*snip*
One has to wonder if the execs who are pushing for more profits will be ok with Sony devs taking 6 years to make Ghost of Tshushima, 5 years to reboot GoW, and 8 years to make Days Gone from scratch.
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Sony clearly still believes that profit comes from polished games. Sony like all companies has always been profit motivated but also their brand is associated with high quality. I see nothing related to releasing games on PC that signifies a change to that attitude.
 
PaintTinJr said:
Do you think NV couldn't get more from the card because the workload is inherently bottlenecked by the 40GB/s-ish memory bandwidth limit of PC motherboard chipsets?
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I would say by 70GB/s-ish random access memory bandwidth limit of GDDR6.
Although NV uses ray hashing trick already: rays are hashed by their direction to send more (pseudo)coherent rays to a single ALU (reusing that ALU caches).

PaintTinJr said:
Interesting point, but how random would the access really be - in consoles that can stream in large pre-sorted datasets as rapidly as the PS5/XsX?
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Ray bounces are random. If you can predict a ray bounce in advance why use RT? Just pre-bake that information into the asset.

PaintTinJr said:
What about something like RT audio being done first (1M ray/s) and then the coarse results get fed back in to the fine grain lighting RT so the 1-3 Gray/s are used far more efficiently?
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May work. A lot of tricks will be used. We don't really know which ones will win.
 
megreotsugua said:
Can a baked lighting solution be better looking than a real-time RT? I'm thinking RT's advantage is dynamism? Meaning it will allow for more destructible environments because the lightning is not baked?
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Yep. There are two "advantages" to RT:
1. it's dynamic,
2. it's not a screen space effect.

Why "advantages" because both come with caveats:
1. dynamic = it's hard to make it look in line with the artistic vision
2."not screen space" = it may use unbounded amounts of resources in bad cases, i.e. stutter and FPS drops.

megreotsugua said:
I had to google stochastic and I still didn't understand. lol. Can you explain to me like I'm 5? Are you referring to DLSS 2.0?
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Anything that uses random sampling and denoise is a "stochastic" methond, i.e. any multisampling (including DLSS) or any RT.
 
X-Fighter said:
Well I explained it in a post before. So Sony BC is just backwards compatibility where the PS5 runs the PS4 game, nothing specially enhanced. XSX runs the game and applies auto-HDR where it actually enhances the game visually.
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Cerny was quite clear in his deep dive that 100 most played PS4 games are expected to run in 'boost mode' on PS5, with at least resolution and fps enhancements. We still don't know what other features PS5 BC will offer.
 
Neo Blaster said:
Cerny was quite clear in his deep dive that 100 most played PS4 games are expected to run in 'boost mode' on PS5, with at least resolution and fps enhancements. We still don't know what other features PS5 BC will offer.
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Yeah that's what I call normal BC, since XSX has the same.
 
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