SportsFan581
Member
There are tons of products that get designed/developed and sometimes even manufactured, but never hit the market. Lockhart could be a fail-safe more than anything else. They sure haven't been talking about it much yet.
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There are tons of products that get designed/developed and sometimes even manufactured, but never hit the market. Lockhart could be a fail-safe more than anything else. They sure haven't been talking about it much yet.
DrKeo
Member
If XSX is 399$, Lockheart will need to be sub-300$ in order to make sense in the market. Lockheart was already rumored as scrapped back in july 2019. The question is, is Lockheart even viable to MS at that price point?
saintjules
Member
I agree mostly here. Do you think a $149 gap between both Xbox's is enough? I was thinking for the Lockheart more like $299. Makes the Series X look more enticing to the Consumer to want it more.
Edit: Thinking twice here. Kinda tough on the $200 gap versus $150.
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ANIMAL1975
Member
Well in a matter of speak you're both right
it wasn't shadi because devs already know the RAM configuration, and it was shadi... because we were left in the dark 
Thirty7ven
Banned
So this is contingent on MS knowing how Sony will price the PS5 and based around the idea that MS is reactive and not proactive. Recipe for failure if so, already on the back foot.
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HeisenbergFX4
Member
If he's as old as I think he is, I commend him
I am 53 and still hard core gaming.
Hell my dad is 80+ and he is the one who introduced me into main frame games in the 1970s when he would repair those beastly machines for hospitals when they were housed in the entire basement.
He is still gaming today as well.
SportsFan581
Member
This is basically what Spencer has been alluding to, yes. Saying your CEO and CFO are 100% onboard and allowing you to be "agile" on price is the rough equivalent of we will avoid being undercut to the best of our ability. Setting a firm price and being undercut isn't a great strategy in a price sensitive market.
TLZ
Banned
I know it's far fetched, but I hope it's $399.
Two Reasons A $400 Xbox Series X May Be Possible: A Pandemic And Revenge
The idea the Xbox Series X could cost $400 seems wrong on its face, but these are strange times, and Microsoft may be plotting something.www.forbes.com
ANIMAL1975
Member
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
An in engine, real-time cutscene. It's indicative of the visuals we can expect from next generation only AAA games on XBsX.
Anyone can look at the best looking games of this gen, their real time cutscenes and see there's not much between them. These same incredibly impressive games were built around either a 1.3 or a 1.8tflop GPU with an absolutely deplorable low end laptop CPU and a terrible storage drive which is extremely slow and constraining to development.
These CPU and drive speed shackles are about to be completely broken in the coming years along with the bonus of more, faster RAM and a GPU on the level of 10x+ the computation power of the original base consoles as the XBsX GPU is about 17tflops when compared with the standard XB1's 1.3tflops. PS5around 15tflops when compared with the standard PS4's 1.8tflops.
AAA visuals are about to reach the realm of movie quality CGI. Strap in
Thirty7ven
Banned
It can mean they will have two skus. It can mean they will be able sell you a 499$ product that for them costs 560$. It doesn't mean "we will wait for the competition and copy the competition". It can mean that with each console you get 3 months of Gamepass, etc
These guys don't plan multi billion dollar strategies like gamers posting in forums. We keep losing sight of this. The price they set at the beginning will follow them for the rest of the generation. It seems a tad hard to believe that spending the next generation losing money on hardware and gamepass makes any sense but what do I know.
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SportsFan581
Member
True. Everything is multi-faceted. It seems like MS definitely wants to create a better value proposition than what they had with X1, we'll see where it all stacks up. The GP bundling I assume will be coming regardless of the price, they'd like the highest percentage of subscribers as possible. Plus the box basically comes with most of their launch lineup that way.
TLZ
Banned
Deeper Underground
Member
Well said.
3liteDragon
Member
Captain Hero
The Spoiler Soldier
thinking that Sony is on preparation for road to greatness.. no denying that this is a fact With a watermark " Sony Interactive Entertainment presents " boy O boy
Can't wait
Can't wait
MasterCornholio
Member
So basically your looking for a demo of Mark Cerny playing with his rubber ducks in a tub.
geordiemp
Member
There were also Rumours the APU chip was actually for surface and not Lockart...or it could be both....
A 20 core / Zen2 APU would be great in a ultrathin laptop for sure.
Agnostic2020
Member
June lockhart will be revealed as a 4tf console . Book it
geordiemp
Member
I am similar, my son is 17. I still play COD BO4 and my KD = 3, playing smart is often >>> bunny hopping madmen.
Maybe, just pointing out that finding a 4TF Zen2 from MS could have a few uses.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
Yeah, it's still pretty interesting even with them being very cautious. Sony should reveal the thing already so devs could speak much freely.
This video has been launched last March, so I don't expect new games utilizing it until like 1-2 years from now. As it's described, it's not heavy on the GPU, and many GPU's can manage it. With PS5 not having to rendering anything outside the view angle automatically, that should give way more room for it to handle this. It would take optimization indeed, but it should take less time with how smart the system is, that's why I said before that I expect PS5 to secure more 3rd party exclusives or timed exclusives due to its easy-to-develop-for system.
Biggest thing that I would want to get the next gen feeling is destructible environments. GTA with this would be cool, level the whole city with choppa.
I would be more than happy with 1080p next gen, 30fps or 60fps and current gen level of graphics or bit above, if it would give us this.
Shiny photo realistic games are just boring if mechanics stay the same, polishing turd more and more and in the end it is still a turd. Make exploding, turd, that would be next level.
4k and +60hz is just waste. 4k alone eats up too much of benefits and it is nothing special vs 1080p. Even vhs movies still look much better than 4k games (geometry, lightning and other reality stuff) and their res is lower than low. so cranking up the res is just not worth it when fullHD + ultra details would make games look better, or FullHD + destruction physics like I would prefer.
I think if any game comes with 4K@30fps it should have 1440p@60fps mode, problem solved. Old movies and movies in general mostly use analog IMAX sensor cams so it's even capable to upscale to 12K, that's why you find HD or 4K versions in the likes of Netflix.
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Smoke6
Member
But that's not MS goal is it? Sony gives continuous support for all previous platforms for a while after a new gen! If MS does that then they would kill off their "generational" marketing jargon of everything being playable from S to SEX!
the the pricing would kill that off anyway if Lockhart is a thing the there wouldn't be no need for cross gen titles as why would I buy an OneX when I could get a nex gen console for damn near the same price?
I dunno but the pricing speculation going around just not adding up compared to how consoles are priced right now for them. With that being said, Sony is in a way better position to achieve this than MS. Would be!
Caio
Member
I finished school too long ago, can't remember. You on the other hand seems to be still at school judging from your level of maturity since your first reply.
So you are some kind of judge here, and you decide what should be posted here as news or not... I didn't know,
In the video I posted he never referred to PS5 in a negative way, if any. Not every news or info must be biased by definition if someone prefer a Brand instead of another.
Again, I didn't see anything biased about the Video I posted. If he was a bit biased in other occasions, I don't care. I just posted one single Video from him.
Tenka Musou
Banned
What does your dad play?
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Right now he is hooked mainly on They Are Billions
silent head
Member
Neo Blaster
Member
People think Cerny could go on talking about everything technical on PS5, but he didn't because: a) it would take much more than 50 minutes; b) there are features they wanted to reveal at a proper time(PS5 blowout, maybe?).
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I'm not a business man but surely you wouldn't take the $$$ hit on the mainstream best selling HW bought in a large part by a demographic that buys fewer games, buys used games and spends less online/MT etc?
What are the permutations here?
What are the permutations here?
SportsFan581
Member
Absolutely, would be a great part for notebooks, complete with a Xbox compatible sticker.
DrKeo
Member
My back-of-the-envelope calculation puts Lockheart's BOM ~170$ behind XSX, that's why I'm assuming 150$ difference. I could be massi
Yes, MS will be reactive IMO. MS doesn't have the brand name Sony has, they can't afford to have their price undercut by Sony. Ask MS executives how you win a gen and their answer will be "first to 10 million consoles". If PS5 is 399$, they can't be at 499$.
Big corporations are reactive all the time unless they are the market leader and MS is no market leader. Just look at the 5700 XT. It was announced and two days later NVIDIA announced the 2070 SUPER. AMD had cut the price immediately by 50$.
geordiemp
Member
There is no point in having a cheap option at Launch when you are supply limited, consoles will sell out regardless in first 3-6 months. You only need a cheap offering later when late price concious adopters are looking for deals and need tempting.
So Lockart being cheap day 1 makes no logical sense at all and is just throwing away money for nothing. nobody in their right business mind would approve that unless you have a huge stock and more supply than demand.
Supply and demand...always. If demand >>> supply, no discounts.
In fact, for both console makers, I see no special deals in first 6 months, why would you, you only have so much stock why take a loss ?
After 6 months you get a free game or whatever.
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Neo Blaster
Member
Sir, I salute you both.
saintjules
Member
That's pretty awesome! Salute!
MasterCornholio
Member
That is awesome. My father was the one who introduced me to gaming. Unfortunately he didn't think that Duke Nukem 3D was a game for adults so that was my first experience with video games. So glad he made that mistake because I loved the game.
Edit: Fun fact my mom was the one who caught me playing the game and gave my dad hell about it. Then he ruined it with the parental lock. No more boobies and giblets for me.
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Thirty7ven
Banned
What I have been saying basically. If XSS exists then that's where MS takes a big hit, contrary to popular belief.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Do you think Lockhart will come Spring 2021 or later then? Do they really announce it this year if that is the case?
As for the first 6 months pricing/supply issues you are right and both in the past have priced high and sold out then followed it with a big price cut (for different reasons granted).
Saying that Sony had a whole year head start with Pro and knew it but still stuck to $399 when they had the freedom to go higher.
FeiRR
Banned
Before you have any expectations, check previous games by Bloober Team.
Thirty7ven
Banned
I see it as MS being reactive when it came time to plan next gen. They were reactive to the successes and failures of Xbox One, and the successes and failures of the market leader.
I think 499$ is pretty much the lowest they will go on the XSX, and if Ps5 comes in at 399$ that affects the price of the XSS and not the XSX. But we will see. GPU market isn't a good comparison, they have like twenty SKUs each and there it becomes a game of inches.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect the PS5 at 399$ by the way. It's a pipe dream.
I expect a day 1 gamepass game from them, so my expectations are in check.
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geordiemp
Member
Lockart does not need to go on sale until + 6 months for sure, whether they announce it and release a limited number of them for mindshare is a strategy decision.
XB1X being cheap at the moment generation was already lost and they are probably phasing out stock.
Pro it depends what Sony stock is vs sales etc, if they dont need to discount then they wont.
New gen is different, there is never enough stock or capcity in first 6 months.
People expecting good deals day 1 cannot remember previous launches lol, discounts and packed games came when stock started to build up ONLY.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Going to be interesting how lockhart is handled. The whole worse kept secret shtick around it has been fascinating.
I'm surprised you don't remember packed games with consoles. Every system I remember buying at/around launch had at least 1 game bundled at the RRP. Even PS3 had a game and/or blu-rays included (because the AV crowd were buying them!).
loktaiextatus
Member
Actually MS said they can play Xbox One games- The Xbox 360 and Xbox original games are limited to the ones currently backward compatible.
About 1/4th of the 360 library, and 40 or so original XBOX games. This is per Microsoft.
I guess I should have been more clear. Yes I was just saying that it can play games all the way back to the OG Xbox, not necessarily all the games.
The way they described it is through DX12U they develop the game and they don't have to add extra code for texture filtering like they did on the X360. It is automatically handled by the SFS hardware. I'd like to know what else the SFS does though besides SF
FeiRR
Banned
So they are good at solving problems but they solve them in 25% of cases. Your claim makes no sense at all.
Honestly I hope it is. Imagine 4 years from now when 4k is more ubiquitous, asking devs to port a game for the Lockhart. I listened to Jason Ronald talk about how they use the exact same dev tools to create games for the Xbox One, XSX and PC(thus it will be easy) and therein lies the problem. The difference between the games will be just removing RT, reducing the quality of textures here and there, lowering the resolution. But that means Devs are not spending time to fully utilize the XSX. I think Sony has a huge advantage here with the PS5. They're going to improve available dev tools from the PS4 to PS5 and focus primarily on delivering next gen games and hopefuly make better BC. Xbox should seriously reconsider how much they support multiple devices.
That's still impressive. How many PS2/3/1 games can you play on the PS4?
He was asked about additional hardware put into the console, he answered by describing what additional hardware and you're calling it software. I don't know if you're trolling or you just misunderstood.
MasterCornholio
Member
Lockhart might be fine right now because most games are designed to run on current gen systems. But when previous consoles get left behind will Lockhart be enough to run next gen titles?
I know the target is 1080P currently but in a few years it could turn into a 900p/720p box with shaky framerates if the games become too much for it.
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