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[Neo Blaster]

Explained multiple times already even in that thread. SoD run in backward compatibility mode which cannot use velocity architecture. Exactly same thing will happen on PS5 if you even will be able to run your game.

Source on PS5?

 

[sircaw]

We've waited so long I'm beginning to think that's a more improbable appearing than a Boltzmann's brain.

From schrodingers cat to Ludwigs brain this forum is a treasure trove of information.

 

[MoreJRPG]

Wait so why are they now delaying stuff next week? What am I missing?

 

[sircaw]

Wait so why are they now delaying stuff next week? What am I missing?

A travelling Eskimo died somewhere in the USA, we need to mourn.

 

[kebaldo]

Look on the bright side maybe everyone needs to go AFTER Sony

It's so difficult to believe and have hope man...

 

[Fake]

Was a nice video and in the end very informative.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

No, That's what I'm saying,.
1. Microsoft unveils a new version of their SSD that matches the raw (on paper) speed of the the PS5
2. Xbox fans start raving that Microsoft just Killed PS5 because now their one advantage is gone.
3. People respond my pointing out that the speed is way more due to architecture improvements that just the raw speed.
4. 2 & 3 are repeated over and over, page after page, thread after thread, returning us so the madness once more.
5. A bunch of us no longer care because we now have games.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Look on the bright side maybe everyone needs to go AFTER Sony

Wasn't Quantum Error supposed to be shown on that Future Games Show on June 13th? Can they do that before official console reveal?

 

[SSfox]

if you cant handle people responding to your opinion with their own on a forum, hoo wee

You're probably speaking for yourself, cause me i've no problem with that.

You don't read do you? i said i got DM (nor i did) because someone is pissed my opinion isn't his opinion.

But anyways.

 

[MasterCornholio]

That would be really dissapoiting if that's the case

Why remaster Bloodborne when PS5 is BC? And the game isn't that crazy old.

Where is the Demon's Souls Remake that people actually want and Bluepoint been teasing this whole time?

The only thing that may make this thing look good is an announcement of a Bloodborne sequel, but even then it would still be nonsensical since PS5 is BC with PS4!!!

I really hope the Demon Souls remake is true. I really don't want a remastered Bloodborne TBH.

 

[kuncol02]

So the fast loading demo will come soon then and the existing fast loading demo and the fast resume demos on XSX dont count ?

OK. thaks for the info, good to know there will be a 1 second loading demo soon.

Also 1 last question, was the fast resume demo using the VELOCITY ARCHITECTURE as well (or are you saying the new gfats resume on XSX is not optimised yet.....lol)

Fast resume demo have to save whole data into disk before it load another game. Judging by how it's don on Windows with hibernation I would say they always save whole 13GB of data. (console don't know where and what data game store in memory alocated for it) That gives you 13GB of data to save and 13 GB of data to load. 26GB total. SSd have speed of 2.5GB/s 10s game change speed. How do you expected different result?

Source on PS5?

My brain. You can't replace old IO api in BC games because it's part of game code. You can't use hardware decompression because decompression is again part of game code (different games use different methods of storing data). That simply cannot be done without rewriting parts of every game from PS4. At best it will load game like 1 second faster, in some games that potentially could be actually longer than on Xbox because of slower CPU (difference is minimal,. but still exists).

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

Explained multiple times already even in that thread. SoD run in backward compatibility mode which cannot use velocity architecture. Exactly same thing will happen on PS5 if you even will be able to run your game.

It depends on Sony's API. Most of Sony's "Velocity Architecture" is baked into the hardware and can't really be turned on or off. It's just how it works. From reading the Sony Storage Architecture patent filed in 2017; if current PS4 SDK API calls for file loading just ask for a filename and where you want it, it would be trivial to wrap calls to that into PS5's File Archive API that would leverage the entire PS5 IO stack.

For File Archive API you still just ask for what you want by a path and filename. That then gets handed off to a co-processor which hashes it and performs a look up in a table in system RAM to find the logical block address (LBA) and the rest is pure silicon transistors flapping around, with the CPU completely hands off until it gets notified the data is now there and ready.
There's really nothing else you need to do from what I can see.

The architecture is also highly targeted towards random read performance, even to the point of storing its LBA to (Physical Address) PA look up tables in SRAM in the SSD controller, as they deemed even DRAM to have too much latency according to the premise in the patent.

If PS5 handles PS4 file IO calls through File Archive API instead of a traditional virtual file system, then load times on PS4 titles should be massively quicker than before, and be under a second to fill how much RAM a PS4 title reserves.
Anything that gets written to the SSD gets compressed in Kraken format, regardless of what compression was used on the source disk. Again it's hands off and part of the pipeline.

The entire point of using an API for something like file access is that what happens underneath is abstracted and its implementation changing doesn't matter so long as the interface (the parameters you pass in, and what comes back) remains the same.

This is precisely what Cerny meant when he said the best part is as a developer you don't need to know how any of this works. You just request your data and a few milliseconds later, it's there.

It will all hinge on whether PS4 backwards compatibility games will route file IO API calls through FIle Archive API or whether they're maintaining some legacy system. It might even depend on a game by game basis, as with Boost mode. It would be trivial to do, though. Maybe it could break some loading screens or "cut scene" load screens and it's on a game by game basis. Nothing would need to be rebuilt or recompiled though, just where the API calls are being redirected.

 

[Neo Blaster]

My brain. You can't replace old IO api in BC games because it's part of game code. You can't use hardware decompression because decompression is again part of game code (different games use different methods of storing data). That simply cannot be done without rewriting parts of every game from PS4. At best it will load game like 1 second faster, in some games that potentially could be actually longer than on Xbox because of slower CPU (difference is minimal,. but still exists).

Then you better hope that Spiderman demo was rewritten code, because if it was just BC mode...

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

if you cant handle people responding to your opinion with their own on a forum, hoo wee

If its a remaster then sweet. i was just expecting a 60fps patch but a full remaster would mean 4K/60 with much needed AA and higher res textures

I've never even played Bloodborne but I know enough to know it's loved by a lot of people and I respect that. If I found out something like GTA V was coming to PS5 at 4K@60 with improved textures, models and QoL changes I'd be as happy as a pig in shit. I'd buy it so very hard.

 

[Fake]

I really hope the Demon Souls remake is true. I really don't want a remastered Bloodborne TBH.

I guess is the only way Bloodborne would get fixed on PS5. Maybe thats explain Bloodborne on PC as well.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

I've never even played Bloodborne but I know enough to know it's loved by a lot of people and I respect that. If I found out something like GTA V was coming to PS5 at 4K@60 with improved textures, models and QoL changes I'd be as happy as a pig in shit. I'd buy it so very hard.

I agree, I have not played the game either, well actually I have but I only got through the first 5 minutes, it's not my type of game, I could tell you why but I might end up sounding critical and upsetting people since it's a beloved game to many. Although I would say it's an extremely gorgeous game in terms of art direction, environments and colour pallets. I love its creepy gothic aesthetic. I can only imagine how good a PS5 remaster with 60 FPS would look.

 

[SSfox]

I've never even played Bloodborne but I know enough to know it's loved by a lot of people and I respect that. If I found out something like GTA V was coming to PS5 at 4K@60 with improved textures, models and QoL changes I'd be as happy as a pig in shit. I'd buy it so very hard.

Then why were you arguing with me about this? i've BB platinum, 1 character lvl 300 NG+4 and 1 character lvl 120 NG+1.

If i've never played the game before just like you, my opinion would of course be different, i would be interested in this supposed remaster.

So i can totally see why someone would be interested in this supposed remaster if never played before.

I though it was obvious but it wasn't that much it seems.

 

[geordiemp]

Fast resume demo have to save whole data into disk before it load another game. Judging by how it's don on Windows with hibernation I would say they always save whole 13GB of data. (console don't know where and what data game store in memory alocated for it) That gives you 13GB of data to save and 13 GB of data to load. 26GB total. SSd have speed of 2.5GB/s 10s game change speed. How do you expected different result?


My brain. You can't replace old IO api in BC games because it's part of game code. You can't use hardware decompression because decompression is again part of game code (different games use different methods of storing data). That simply cannot be done without rewriting parts of every game from PS4. At best it will load game like 1 second faster, in some games that potentially could be actually longer than on Xbox because of slower CPU (difference is minimal,. but still exists).

That fast resume demo had games that were 1 GB RAM lol (Cave). Ps5 could load and save that 5 times in a second.

I have ben in this loop 3 times already, conclusion was XSX apis not ready yet or mS not ready...

Whatever, you keep believing when the mounting evidence sugests otherwise and you keep waiting for the XSX SSD to eventually go fast...

 

[jimbojim]

Linus himself says he was wrong, did a pretty decent job. So much for those jumping to defend his every word in other threads.

Funny thing is, his channel with 11 mil. subs., he gave a Sony a free add and cost them nothing, yet he praised PS5 tech and SSD.

EDIT :

Love how he gave an honorable mention to Cherno.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

I guess is the only way Bloodborne would get fixed on PS5. Maybe thats explain Bloodborne on PC as well.

It's probably common that remasters start out as a small project to fix or improve one thing before it gets picked up by more people and the scope changes to entire assets being remade.
No Man's Sky VR started out as one dude mucking around in the office until Sean tried it.
The Breath of the Wild sequel was apparently spun out of what was supposed to be BotW DLC until it started getting really deep and its scope got larger.
A Bloodborne remaster for PS5 probably started out with some fundamental engine changes to sort out its hitching problem, or even work for a PS4 Pro patch that ended up going further than originally planned.
Either way, if I was in love with the game, I'd be really happy. There are plenty of games from PS4 that I'd love to have remastered and not just Boost Mode'd to a stable 30/60.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

Was a nice video and in the end very informative.

Nothing informative, he explains things vaguely because he understands shit. This guy lost alot.

 

[sircaw]

I agree, I have not played the game either, well actually I have but I only got through the first 5 minutes, it's not my type of game, I could tell you why but I might end up sounding critical and upsetting people since it's a beloved game to many. Although I would say it's an extremely gorgeous game in terms of art direction, environments and colour pallets. I love its creepy gothic aesthetic. I can only imagine how good a PS5 remaster with 60 FPS would look.

PERSONALLY, I WOULD NOT BE BLOODY FOOKING UPSET AT YOU FOR NOT BLOODY PLAYING GOD DAMN BLOODBORNE!!!!!!!!

 

[Killer Sakoman]

I really hope the Demon Souls remake is true. I really don't want a remastered Bloodborne TBH.

I hope blue point are working on their own epic adventure rather than remaking old games. They are very talented. Their inhouse engine is incredible.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

Then why were you arguing with me about this? i've BB platinum, 1 character lvl 300 NG+4 and 1 character lvl 120 NG+1.

If i've never played the game before just like you, my opinion would of course be different, i would be interested in this supposed remaster.

So i can totally see why someone would be interested in this supposed remaster if never played before.

I though it was obvious but it wasn't that much it seems.

Because it makes no difference? Remasters and backwards compatibility are different things. Always have been. Always will be. There's no gate-keeper I need to slip coin to or flash credentials at in order to make that point.

Congratulations on the Platinum!

I'm actually not even interested in the remaster. It's not my kind of game.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

PERSONALLY, I WOULD NOT BE BLOODY FOOKING UPSET AT YOU FOR NOT BLOODY PLAYING GOD DAMN BLOODBORNE!!!!!!!!

 

[sircaw]

Don't mind me to much, Meds.
Or not enough, never can tell these days.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

That fast resume demo had games that were 1 GB RAM lol (Cave). Ps5 could load and save that 5 times in a second.

8-9 times in a second, unless I'm missing something? The compression is part of the hardware IO pipeline and doesn't need to be baked into the game.

 

[Garjon]

Isn't that actually making room for Sony?

No one seems to know!

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Don't mind me to much, Meds.
Or not enough, never can tell these days.

 

[SSfox]

Because it makes no difference? Remasters and backwards compatibility are different things. Always have been. Always will be. There's no gate-keeper I need to slip coin to or flash credentials at in order to make that point.

Congratulations on the Platinum!

I'm actually not even interested in the remaster. It's not my kind of game.

I played the game, you didn't. It makes all the difference.

There are remaster games that i bought because i never played before, and wouldn't buy if i've already played.

It doesn't surprise me at all that someone that never played the game would be excited for this news.



All this for this... Welp

Spoiler

PS: It's my personal favorite PS4 exclusive alongside GOW

 

[Md Ray]

I wonder where @SenjutsuSage has gone. I miss his mental gymnastics trying to tell everyone how the PS5 wouldn't have hardware raytracing after Cerny had already confirmed it while trying to convince everyone he was neutral when all you have to do is check his Twitter to see his bias.

Remember him claiming PS5 = RDNA 1.

 

[kuncol02]

Then you better hope that Spiderman demo was rewritten code, because if it was just BC mode...

It wasn't even rewriten, because that was tech demo made with assets of existing game. That wasn't even full game.

It depends on Sony's API. Most of Sony's "Velocity Architecture" is baked into the hardware and can't really be turned on or off. It's just how it works. From reading the Sony Storage Architecture patent filed in 2017; if current PS4 SDK API calls for file loading just ask for a filename and where you want it, it would be trivial to wrap calls to that into PS5's File Archive API that would leverage the entire PS5 IO stack.

For File Archive API you still just ask for what you want by a path and filename. That then gets handed off to a co-processor which hashes it and performs a look up in a table in system RAM to find the logical block address (LBA) and the rest is pure silicon transistors flapping around, with the CPU completely hands off until it gets notified the data is now there and ready.
There's really nothing else you need to do from what I can see.

The architecture is also highly targeted towards random read performance, even to the point of storing its LBA to (Physical Address) PA look up tables in SRAM in the SSD controller, as they deemed even DRAM to have too much latency according to the premise in the patent.

If PS5 handles PS4 file IO calls through File Archive API instead of a traditional virtual file system, then load times on PS4 titles should be massively quicker than before, and be under a second to fill how much RAM a PS4 title reserves.
Anything that gets written to the SSD gets compressed in Kraken format, regardless of what compression was used on the source disk. Again it's hands off and part of the pipeline.

The entire point of using an API for something like file access is that what happens underneath is abstracted and its implementation changing doesn't matter so long as the interface (the parameters you pass in, and what comes back) remains the same.

This is precisely what Cerny meant when he said the best part is as a developer you don't need to know how any of this works. You just request your data and a few milliseconds later, it's there.

It will all hinge on whether PS4 backwards compatibility games will route file IO API calls through FIle Archive API or whether they're maintaining some legacy system. It might even depend on a game by game basis, as with Boost mode. It would be trivial to do, though. Maybe it could break some loading screens or "cut scene" load screens and it's on a game by game basis. Nothing would need to be rebuilt or recompiled though, just where the API calls are being redirected.

You use lot's of complicated words to mask that you don't understand. What takes time is not reading files from drive, but decompression of them. Because old consoles didn't had any hardware decompression module (because drive was slower than decompression on CPU anyway) different studios used different ways to compress data. You can't move that decompresion to hardware because you don't know what is decompression in game code and what is game logic.

 

[FranXico]

I have to say, that really took courage. Good on Linus, and here's to making his channel better.

I think even saying PCs might be holding consoles back for a change must have hurt him LOL.

 

[Apollo Helios]

Why are we now seeing delay's in next weeks events? Whats the fucking point?

Wait so why are they now delaying stuff next week? What am I missing?

I assume this is because they were planning to go after Sony event and since it is postponed they are also delaying one week so that it gives Sony enough time to do their own thing. Since they are 3rd party, there may be a requirement for them to follow Sony, NDA stuff most likely, so if some were to sow PS5 in-game footage, they couldn't before Sony themselves first do their announcement/game showing.

 

[MasterCornholio]

If there's one thing that they haven't been crystal clear on that's their I/O system. In comparison Sony has been very open about it while Microsoft hasn't really explained how it works.

This is why we have so much confusion in the velocity architecture thread.

 

[LED Guy?]

Well, I see Linus made a video apologizing to Tim Sweeney about this whole PS5 SSD and the drama that ensued after it.

Very amazing seeing how he apologized, it's what I like about Linus, and his videos are phenomenal.

Huge props for the guy!

 

[SSfox]

I wonder what else's gonna leak tomorrow, maybe 4 seconds off-screen Horizon 2 gameplay.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I wonder what else's gonna leak tomorrow, maybe 4 seconds off-screen Horizon 2 gameplay.

Please no. Gaf will go insane if that happens.

 

[Neo Blaster]

It wasn't even rewriten, because that was tech demo made with assets of existing game. That wasn't even full game.

Yes, it could be just a demo. But considering it would be pointless to compare a demo on PS5 to the full game on PS4, both are running the same thing on that presentation, hence you get a difference of 0.8s to 8s anyway.

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

I played the game, you didn't. It makes all the difference.

There are remaster games that i bought because i never played before, and wouldn't buy if i've already played.

It doesn't surprise me at all that someone that never played the game would be excited for this news.



All this for this... Welp

Spoiler

PS: It's my personal favorite PS4 exclusive alongside GOW

Again, I'm not excited for the news. I have no interest in playing Bloodborne, it's just not my kind of game. I acknowledge it's a very good and popular game, I'm not setting myself out as special for not liking it but it's just not for me.

And again, this makes no difference whatsoever to the fact that remasters and backwards compatibility are different things and always have been.
PC is the king of backwards compatibility, and I think there are now 3 versions of Age of Empires II? The original, the HD version, and now the Definitive version, each keeping the core gameplay, improving textures, animations, adding QoL improvements. The idea that the original 90's version should have just been updated to higher resolution for free after all this time just isn't how business works. People need to spend time to do that, and game developers are running a charity.

I've also bought Homeworld and Homeworld Remastered. Again, minor graphical differences for the most part, the original could still be ran. I was happy to buy the remastered editions to experience them again at higher quality because I'm a big fan.

Works costs money.
How much work you deem to have been done is how much money you think it's worth, and that becomes the decision of whether you buy it or not. It's not complicated.

 

[xacto]

Why Microsoft's Xbox One won this Console Generation | Link-Cable

How Microsoft ruled.

www.link-cable.com

And then I got high.

 

[Apollo Helios]

I wonder what else's gonna leak tomorrow, maybe 4 seconds off-screen Horizon 2 gameplay.

What else leaked like that now in the first place?

 

[BadBreathOfTheWild]

It wasn't even rewriten, because that was tech demo made with assets of existing game. That wasn't even full game.



You use lot's of complicated words to mask that you don't understand. What takes time is not reading files from drive, but decompression of them. Because old consoles didn't had any hardware decompression module (because drive was slower than decompression on CPU anyway) different studios used different ways to compress data. You can't move that decompresion to hardware because you don't know what is decompression in game code and what is game logic.

I'm hiding behind nothing whatsoever. The patent goes into far more detail that what I wrote. What words or phrases in particular would you like to see explained in layman's terms? There's nothing at all wrong with not understanding something technical, but to accuse someone of pretended to sound technical is something a bit different.

This patent: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2017/0097897.html explains in detail the process of writing to the SSD. Everything that goes onto the SSD is broken into chunks and compressed, regardless of whether the original file itself is already compressed. Decompressing those files is part of reading files from the drive on PS5. It's inseparable as you can see for yourself in the patent linked above.

Anything that gets stored on PS5's SSD is compressed. PS4 did have Zlib decompression hardware, but to get an extra 10% (of streaming speed) lots of studios were moving to Kraken and using the CPU to decompress.

A PS4 game stored on PS5's SSD would be compressed using Kraken. If those PS4 game files that then come out are compressed using Zlib or Kraken themselves then they'd be decompressed as needed by PS5's CPU through whatever API calls the PS4 would be making, which would be trivial with how much CPU margin available compared to Jaguar.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Another submitter to Mark Cerny, after PCGAMER.COM




What a wonderful video, well redeemed IMHO.

 

[SSfox]

What else leaked like that now in the first place?

The BB remaster and DS remake, fake or not it already been spread insane all over the internet.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I would like to say thanks to everyone sharing some news, leaks, tweets and cie. It really helps specially now while waiting for that new PS5 show date.

Here, something to help you in the wait. One of the gems Kojima dig and implemented in his Death Stranding masterpiece:

 

[SSfox]

Here, something to help you in the wait. One of the gems Kojima dig and implemented in his Death Stranding masterpiece:

It's a good one!!

I discovered some gems thanks to Kojima games:

Those 2 i've become big fan of, are from MGSVTPP:





(The perfect song to put in my helicopter <3)

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Does the PS5's faster SSD matter as much as you think?

They'll reach there, it's a process, we must understand that. It takes time.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

It's a good one!!

I discovered some gems thanks to Kojima games:

Those 2 i've become big fan of, are from MGSVTPP:





(The perfect song to put in my helicopter <3)

You just discovered the final count down? You most be very young.

 

[saintjules]

snip