Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Nowcry said:
18 or 20 CU dont need 560 GB/s is a waste of money. You must get the same GB/s Tflops /CU.

560GB/s / 52 CU = 10.77 GB/s/CU

XXX GB/s/20 CU = 10.77 GB/s/CU ; XXX = Bandwidth 217.6 GB/s.

XXX GB/s/18 CU = 10,77 GB/s/CU ; XXX = Bancwidth 193 GB/s.

With this more or less in mind we could try to think of ram configurations.


20 CU ------ 10 RDNA CU ------- 2 Shaders engines, 2 Memory controller but 10 gb o memory ....... maybe divided memory? 8 chip, 6 chips 1 GB + 2 chips 2 GB? With 8 chips the can use GDDR5 more cheap. 256 bits memory is enought for 20 CU maybe 192 bits?

There is a lot configuration.


Let the bets begin
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On memory, I'll go with a 192bit bus configured with 2 1GB modules and 4 2GB modules. 6GB video optimal + 4GB at 128bit. How risky that would be would depend on how much VRAM is on the 3060, which will likely become the defacto PC standard for the next generation. Seems odd, like why not just go with 12GB, but the same could be said for XSX not just going with 20GB.

Should be a new thread for lockhart guesses, might as well get the wrongness mapped. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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Wraith Phantom said:
Astrobot is lining up the job to be the PS mascot.
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Yup, and having a full game, whether it's short or good length, preloaded for free on every PS5 helps it to be more iconic going forward. Many have big praise and say it's the best PSVR game in current gen, would try it on PSVR2 on PS5 later.

maxresdefault.jpg
 
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Bo_Hazem said:
Well been saying PS4 Pro is a much better deal than PS4/Slim since 2016 to friends but you know some didn't have 4K's by then at least but now it's extremely widespread here more than 1080p due to Chinese, cheap models and they're miles better than any premium 1080p tv's.

It's a waste of time to even talk about graphics with people still using 1080p tv's/monitors, even 1440p monitors in that matter although these tend to be tiny and more forgiving with less resolution.
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Resolution isn't everything and is not the only aspect of a picture. The fact that you say those cheap Chinese 4K TVs are better than a premium 1080p is very telling that you don't know or care about other important PQ aspects. People like you are the exact type these manufacturers sell these 4K!4K!4K!4K! marketing too.

A high end 1080p plasma like the Pioneer Kuro is vastly better than a cheap Chinese 4K TV. In a few ways it's even better than OLED.

Do those Chinese TV's have

Accurate reference color reproduction? You can have all the colors in the world. How the tv process and show those colors are important.

Native motion resolution? Plasmas like the kuro have full 1080 lines. All 4K tv's, especially the Chinese ones, have DVD resolution for motion at 600 lines. Including OLED. So all that 4K resolution is completely lost when there's motion. A 1080p plasma holds all details.

Motion performance? Plasma have a very CRT like smooth realistic motion. LCD and OLED, again especially those cheap Chinese tvs, do not. Their motion handling is not as good with a lot of judder and blur compared to a plasma. Combine plasmas high motion resolution with it's smooth motion and you get very realistic organic looking picture.

Shadow detail?

Near black detail?
You can have dark blacks, but just like the colors, is the tv showing them properly?

There's many other PQ parameters that define the overall look of a picture than just resolution.

And it's not like 1080p is all of a sudden a bad resolution. Far from it. It still delivers a crips image for movies and games. Both look absolutely stunning on a 60" kuro.
 
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On Demand said:
Resolution isn't everything and is not the only aspect of a picture. The fact that you say those cheap Chinese 4K TVs are better than a premium 1080p is very telling that you don't know or care about other important PQ aspects. People like you are the exact type these manufacturers sell these 4K!4K!4K!4K! marketing too.

A high end 1080p plasma like the Pioneer Kuro is vastly better than a cheap Chinese 4K TV. In a few ways it's even better than OLED.

Do those Chinese TV's have

Accurate reference color reproduction? You can have all the colors in the world. How the tv process and show those colors are important.

Native motion resolution? Plasmas like the kuro have full 1080 lines. All 4K tv's, especially the Chinese ones, have DVD resolution for motion at 600 lines. Including OLED. So all that 4K resolution is completely lost when there's motion. A 1080p plasma holds all details.

Motion performance? Plasma have a very CRT like smooth realistic motion. LCD and OLED, again especially those cheap Chinese tvs, do not. Their motion handling is not as good with a lot of judder and blur compared to a plasma. Combine plasmas high motion resolution with it's smooth motion and you get very realistic organic looking picture.

Shadow detail?

Near black detail?
You can have dark blacks, but just like the colors, is the tv showing them properly?

There's many other PQ parameters that define the overall look of a picture than just resolution.

And it's not like 1080p is all of a sudden a bad resolution. Far from it. It still delivers a crips image for movies and games. Both look absolutely stunning on a 60" kuro.
Click to expand...

I think you didn't see them in person and have low expectation about the image quality. Most of them are surprisingly good, and I've even gamed on some on amusement shops here at 75" sizes, even the OG PS4 upscaling is very solid. No judder, great performance, wonderful value. Maybe people forget that most electronics are built in China, even the premium ones.

Yes, those cheap 4K, Chinese TV's are much, much better than any 1080p tv. It's not even debatable. Plasma? I forgot that name a decade ago. But hey, maybe you still prefer them, but you're only getting 25% max out of the native resolution quality.

And yes, 8K makes 4K looks bad as well, resolution is a MAJOR aspect of picture quality, one of the main pillars. It's even visible on 5-6" smartphone screens for that matter.
 
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X-Fighter said:
But there is an improvement. 4.7TF RDNA2 GPU is more powerful than a 6TF GCN GPU.
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Lets face it, and this is from a current Ps4 fan prior 360 fan, a lockart will be better than the XB1 or any jaguar and HDD based system full stop.

Everyone nees to stop production of all ps4, Xb1 consoles and move on so we cna have more enemies on screen, more animations and things happening.

Think about destiny, those tired 6-1 enemies that spawn with same movements, thats Jaguar.
 
Used-ID said:
The way the x series s is rumored to be specc'ed makes me think it's a replacement for the x box 1 and 1x. Like a xbox 1x mark2. Basically a cheap box to run current gen games (priced like a xbox 1), but with current hardware to allow it to muddle through next gen games.

Almost like they're trying to do a console refresh of current gen, while labeling it as next-gen

One box of true next gen capabilities (Series X)
One box that's a hardware refresh of the current 1x masquerading as a next-gen box (Lockhart)
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If Lockart is a thing, it will replace XO S/X right from the start. I expect MS will stop their manufacturing when(and if) the official announcement is made, it's just pointless to keep selling them and have such a fragmented offering, so confusing to the mass market. Who knows, they could already have stopped.
 
Nowcry said:
18 or 20 CU dont need 560 GB/s is a waste of money. You must get the same GB/s Tflops /CU.

560GB/s / 52 CU = 10.77 GB/s/CU

XXX GB/s/20 CU = 10.77 GB/s/CU ; XXX = Bandwidth 217.6 GB/s.

XXX GB/s/18 CU = 10,77 GB/s/CU ; XXX = Bancwidth 193 GB/s.

With this more or less in mind we could try to think of ram configurations.


20 CU ------ 10 RDNA CU ------- 2 Shaders engines, 2 Memory controller but 10 gb o memory ....... maybe divided memory? 8 chip, 6 chips 1 GB + 2 chips 2 GB? With 8 chips the can use GDDR5 more cheap. 256 bits memory is enought for 20 CU maybe 192 bits?

There is a lot configuration.


Let the bets begin
Click to expand...

So are you saying the PS5 has higher bandwidth per CU than the XBSX?

448/36 = 12.44
 
Bo_Hazem said:
I think you didn't see them in person and have low expectation about the image quality. Most of them are surprisingly good, and I've even gamed on some on amusement shops here at 75" sizes, even the OG PS4 upscaling is very solid. No judder, great performance, wonderful value. Maybe people forget that most electronics are built in China, even the premium ones.
Click to expand...

Any tv can be "good." That's besides the point. Your original argument was that cheap Chinese 4K tv are better that high end 1080p ones and that's highly incorrect. I've seen plenty of 4K tvs.

Seems you're the one with low expectations of image quality actually. :)

Yes, those cheap 4K, Chinese TV's are much, much better than any 1080p tv. It's not even debatable. Plasma? I forgot that name a decade a go. But hey, maybe you still prefer them, but you're only getting 25% max out of the native resolution quality.
Click to expand...

It is debatable. You're too focused on resolution.

Which by the way plasmas, at least the kuro, has a higher pixel fill rate because of it's true RGB structure. Unlike tv now which all use a color filter.

So your 25% statement is wrong. Especially in regards to motion resolution which I already addressed.

And yes, 8K makes 4K looks bad as well, resolution is a MAJOR aspect of picture quality, one of the main pillars. It's even visible on 5-6" smartphone screens for that matter.
Click to expand...

Resolution is absolutely not the most important part of a picture. Look up papers written about this. Ask any film director. It's just one part.
 
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geordiemp said:
Lets face it, and this is from a current Ps4 fan prior 360 fan, a lockart will be better than the XB1 or any jaguar and HDD based system full stop.

Everyone nees to stop production of all ps4, Xb1 consoles and move on so we cna have more enemies on screen, more animations and things happening.

Think about destiny, those tired 6-1 enemies that spawn with same movements, thats Jaguar.
Click to expand...
Indeed, next-gen is going to be great. PS5 and XSX for native 4K games, and XSS for 1080p.
 
jasondefaoite said:
How much of an improvement?. Let me restate the question. Has any previous generation of console had as little improvement % wise in the GPU, gen on gen, as XSS to XboxOneX?
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No, but it isn't needed anymore... All devs have said the biggest leap is due to SSD and CPU, and that's going to be the same (based on the rumors). There are a lot of people that don't need native 4K visuals because they don't have a 4K TV set. Compared to the PS5 (and even XSX) the XSS can more easily render 1080p than the PS5 4K, it has more power to spare.
 
X-Fighter said:
No, but it isn't needed anymore... All devs have said the biggest leap is due to SSD and CPU, and that's going to be the same (based on the rumors). There are a lot of people that don't need native 4K visuals because they don't have a 4K TV set. Compared to the PS5 (and even XSX) the XSS can more easily render 1080p than the PS5 4K, it has more power to spare.
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What you originally asked was what was the measure of next gen, TF?

And it's clear, for all previous generations, it always has been. But now it isn't, well, because the XSS doesn't have that jump this time.
 
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jasondefaoite said:
What you originally asked was what was the measure of next gen, TF?

And it's clear, for all previous generations, it always has been. But now it isn't, well, because the XSS doesn't have that jump this time.
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It isn't because the console manufacturers as well as developers have said that it isn't this time.
 
Snowdonhoffen said:
I'd expect a 4 TF console (maybe 40 CUs like the Xbox One X?)
With a 3.6 to 3.8 Ghz CPU
10 GB GDDR6 RAM @ 336 GB/s with a 256-bit bus
500 GB SSD @2,4 GB/s or 1 TB SSD @1.2 GB/s
Decompressor and audio chip
No disc drive

That may be enough to sell it at a $299 price point and honestly sounds good. But we'll see how the console ends up being like
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Yea id expect it to be around $299 and the Series X $399. I find it hard to believe M$ would sell the Series X above this price point, they can't afford to fall behind this generation, I honestly wouldn't even be surprised if the "Series S" was priced at $249 for the sake of getting ahead.
 
X-Fighter said:
No, but it isn't needed anymore... All devs have said the biggest leap is due to SSD and CPU, and that's going to be the same (based on the rumors). There are a lot of people that don't need native 4K visuals because they don't have a 4K TV set. Compared to the PS5 (and even XSX) the XSS can more easily render 1080p than the PS5 4K, it has more power to spare.
Click to expand...
SSD on both is not going to be the same.
 
Bo_Hazem said:
I would love one! Naughty Dog already lost Crash Bandicoot, well known PS mascot, now better have multiple iconic faces instead of relying on one, it's Sony's new idea, I guess, and it shows that it's not milking one IP like the competition:

cW8BYvX.jpg
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Technically ND never lost Crash, since they never own it, ND created and made the games but the IP had belong to Universal then those guys sold it to others (i think it was Konami first, then those sold it to Acti)
 
marvifrom said:
Yea id expect it to be around $299 and the Series X $399. I find it hard to believe M$ would sell the Series X above this price point, they can't afford to fall behind this generation, I honestly wouldn't even be surprised if the "Series S" was priced at $249 for the sake of getting ahead.
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Putting XSS at 299 when XSX is at 399 makes no sense at all. Price difference wouldn't compensate immense difference in power. Price difference should be at least $200 to be justified for consumers IMO.
 
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bitbydeath said:
New Uncharted focused studio?
Hopefully they rotate between at least two IPs and don't stick solely to Uncharted.

www.pushsquare.com

Sony's Not-So Secret New First-Party Studio Adds More Naughty Dog Talent

Uncharted endeavour
www.pushsquare.com www.pushsquare.com
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People have been saying it's an Uncharted game because the studio lead is ex-ND and the game is a "cinematic third person action game" but it seems like wish fulfillment to me. I personally think it's a new IP. We might see it in August.
 
Bo_Hazem said:
Yup, and having a full game, whether it's short or good length, preloaded for free on every PS5 helps it to be more iconic going forward. Many have big praise and say it's the best PSVR game in current gen, would try it on PSVR2 on PS5 later.

maxresdefault.jpg
Click to expand...

It's an exceptionally good game. With PS VR and Astrobot Rescue Mission I think Sony did a better job at being Nintendo than Nintendo have recently. It's an extremely polished vibrant platformer with fantastic music that took me right back to the feeling I had pushing a brand new Sonic game cartridge into our Megadrive.

On PS4 Pro and current PS VR it's visually stunning and clearly a top tier first-party game. It's delightful as fuck and anyone that hasn't played it that grew up with colourful 90's platformers is missing out.

Keep it on your radar if you're holding out for PS VR 2. I hope a sequel is a launch title for a nee headset, too.
 
Catching up. I don't know that I believe that rumor(statement?) from the gentleman regarding price, date and pre-orders around July 13th. Just feels awfully short notice with little to no fanfare.

I seem to recall somebody with clout saying that Sony had another big event planned besides their last one in August. I would expect those there, not just chucked out in a generic tweet or press release.

I widely expect Microsoft to fire the first shots here on price and date, especially with recent revelations they could've been ready to go in August for release, before Covid threw and continues to throw wrenches.

Perchance there is credence there, as if XSX could've launched in August, then maybe both systems could come sooner than expected.

September or October for both systems?
 
SSfox said:
Technically ND never lost Crash, since they never own it, ND created and made the games but the IP had belong to Universal then those guys sold it to others (i think it was Konami first, then those sold it to Acti)
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Konami was involved in Wrath of Cortex going multiplat. All Universal gaming assets went to Sierra, then to Activision.

Edit: Don't know I said Sierra instead of Vivendi.
 
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jasondefaoite said:
Source on devs and MS discussing Lockhart ?
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I wasn't talking about Lockhart. Developers as well as Sony/Microsoft have said that SSD and CPU are the big leaps for next-gen (Source 1, Source 2, many more to find). So if the SSD and CPU are the same in Lockhart as in XSX (as the rumors say), then there isn't an issue here. The GPU has more room to spare when running games at 1080p then the PS5/XSX running games at native 4K, so again there's no issue.
 
X-Fighter said:
I wasn't talking about Lockhart. Developers as well as Sony/Microsoft have said that SSD and CPU are the big leaps for next-gen (Source 1, Source 2, many more to find). So if the SSD and CPU are the same in Lockhart as in XSX (as the rumors say), then there isn't an issue here. The GPU has more room to spare when running games at 1080p then the PS5/XSX running games at native 4K, so again there's no issue.
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The devs have discussed the CPU and SSD as both address weaknesses in the previous gen. Those coupled with a new generational improvement in the GPU makes the systems next gen.

The PS5/XBX should be well capable of running with an output at 1080p/4K, and for those with 1080p only TV's, superior to XSS at the same resolution.

Being hobbled with a 4TF GPU isn't next gen. Maybe more XboxOneX+
 
jasondefaoite said:
The devs have discussed the CPU and SSD as both address weaknesses in the previous gen. Those coupled with a new generational improvement in the GPU makes the systems next gen.

The PS5/XBX should be well capable of running with an output at 1080p/4K, and for those with 1080p only TV's, superior to XSS at the same resolution.

Being hobbled with a 4TF GPU isn't next gen. Maybe more XboxOneX+
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Ok, we'll agree to disagree. You might not call it next-gen, I will, but that's then a difference in opinion.
 
So is it an arrogance of 2K or should we really be prepared to spend $10 on each game? Maybe it is their way to cope with small install base? I wasn't in console gaming at the beginning of this gen, so I don't know how transition was held back then.
 
dimaveshkin said:
So is it an arrogance of 2K or should we really be prepared to spend $10 on each game? Maybe it is their way to cope with small install base? I wasn't in console gaming at the beginning of this gen, so I don't know how transition was held back then.
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I think these may be tactics for certain Puiblishers to take advantage, whereas others may just do the free upgrade. The pricing was the same from PS3-4 (at least in the states - $59.99USD) from what I've experienced.

I wonder if the extra cost in price reflects those Amazon dummy listing prices from a couple of weeks ago. They showed them in pounds, but 10 dollars higher on some items.


Vnl03m5.jpg
 
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I think people are under-appreciating 4K more than I can remember people doing it with 1080p... Like people don't remember that the first two generations of Xbox 360 didn't have an HDMI port...

This generation we even saw a console refresh just to support 4K... Yes, the majority of the people don't have a 4k TV, but in 3 more years, this won't be the scenario anymore...

Now this mentality of visualizing the future is something the customers should worry about and do not invest in something that will be very limited in a couple of years but companies like Microsoft should only care in making their brand big and stronger, so for Microsoft, Lockhard is not a bad console, it even makes them look pro-customers giving people, the right to choose according to their budget.

But for every person that asks me what to buy, I will tell them the same thing I tell them about a 1080p TV/monitor... "save some money an go for the 4K one"
 
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