Support NeoGAF

[JOEVIAL]

Honestly. They used to be better. I'm talking back in the 90's and early to mid 2000's. Back when gaming was still a niche market (early 2000's wasn't so niche). Yes I know, there were a lot of "bad" games back then, just like there are now, but I am talking about the "good" games... compared to the "good" games of today.

Games weren't mainstream then. As such... they were made by people who had a passion for what they were making. The driving factors were to make a fun experience... and they were made by talented people who wanted to get their artistry to the masses. Back then there weren't terms like "AAA" experiences and *shudders* games as a service. Most devs weren't driven by making money. They just wanted to make a fun game that people liked. There's no more perfect embodiment of this than James Halliday in Ready Player One. The Halliday character was inspired by late 80's, early 90's devs who just wanted to create fun games. There was a lot of experimenting going on back then. Lot's of new and fresh things, so most devs didn't really know what would make money anyways. Their thought process was just "We made this game... we hope you enjoy it"

Modern gaming is driven by money. The shareholders and executives make the decisions now. Not the creators. Not the people putting their hard work into the games. It's all so clear to see with a few games nowadays.
They weren't purposely designing mechanics to be addictive and predatory to make you "feel like you need to buy this cosmetic or boost." Most all "AAA" games today have some form of predatory mechanics.

And listen... I'm not saying ALL MODERN GAMES ARE WORSE.... just making an observation that it used to be a simpler time. Games used to be just about having fun.

I left out a bunch of stuff for brevity... but hopefully it will lead to interesting discussion points. What do you think GAF? How do the "good" games of today compare with the "good" games of yesteryear? Can you feel that something is missing?

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

No.

 

[jshackles]

Sounds like OP isn't playing the right games

 

[Happosai]

Nope. Games were great in the past but they're getting better. The games from this generation were significantly higher in quality than those of the 7th gen. The games currently in development for the next-gen seem to be aiming for better overall gameplay, quality, and performance. This is coming from "that old fart on GAF who defends everything retro." Yeah, if I'm saying the future has a lot to offer in gaming -- that's saying something. Remember, people are also joining NeoGAF for modern games and that they make up the majority of the Gaming discussion threads.

 

[Sethbacca]

You were different, younger, less jaded, and viewed the games accordingly. Gaming has gotten better and more varied over the years. Gaming isn't worse, we all just view it differently because we're crotchety old fucks.

 

[GHG]

Stop playing heavily marketed AAA trash.

Problem solved.

Currently having a blast with wasteland 3 and while it's been streamlined in some aspects, at it's core its still very much an RPG that wouldn't be out of place in the 90's and early 2000's.

 

[Rentahamster]

Their thought process was just "We made this game... we hope you enjoy it"

Dude, they weren't doing this shit for free back then either.

 

[mckmas8808]

No they weren't. And this isn't even subjective.

 

[SegaShack]

All media has been declining IMO. Gaming was great up until early 2000s. The styles of games, music, and movies I enjoy don't really exist anymore.

I wouldn't say "games used to be better", as my style of games, which is more arcade/classic style, isn't what sells anymore. If I liked multiplayer shooters or open world stuff I'm sure I'd be all about this current generation.

The large teams required to make games now also means less personality.

Nothing wrong with acknowledging the style of mainstream games is different than what you like.

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

OP is right.

 

[nkarafo]

I do agree that microtransactions, pay to win mechanics, loot boxes, mobile games, etc, have made it much harder to separate the good from the bad.

Other than that, we need specific examples.

 

[LeftThumbstick]

No, you're just getting older and your perception of "fun" has changed.

All games were made to make money, the end.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Stop playing heavily marketed AAA trash.

Problem solved.

^^^

 

[Ellery]

Honestly it is impossible for me to judge it properly, because I am pretty sure my nostalgia guesses sit tighly on my face when I look back at old masterpiece and it is extremely hard to judge them without factoring in at what time they came out.

But I think that they have been so many great games in recent years that I can't complain at all. I have more games I want to play than I have time to play them.

 

[diffusionx]

Yes this is absolutely and obviously true.

 

[JOEVIAL]

Stop playing heavily marketed AAA trash.

Problem solved.

Currently having a blast with wasteland 3 and while it's been streamlined in some aspects, at it's core its still very much an RPG that wouldn't be out of place in the 90's and early 2000's.

I alluded to this in the OP, but it was getting too long.

Yes... my post was directed towards the heavily marketed AAA games of today (Fortnite, Halo Infinite, Madden). As opposed to the heavily marketed games of the past (Super Mario Bros, Crash Bandicoot, Metal Gear Solid). It's a clear and stark difference between what was popular than, to what is popular now.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

They are different, not better.

 

[Nico_D]

You don't play indies?

I don't think games are worse now than what they used to be and I have been playing for 38 years. There may be more money grabbers but there's also A LOT more independant game makers now than what used to be possible back then.

Lot of games now too have that "fun first" but higher you go in the AAA chain, the more money starts to matter.

Quantity-wise there is so much more games yearly than what there was in the 90s. Of course if someone were to only play big studio games, then it could look like there's something missing.

I think today's best indies are what games used to be in the 90s.

 

[Tesseract]

the golden era of mechanics is over, i'll give you that much

everything stalled around 2006

 

[TheInfamousKira]

Games are inherently, statistically better now. Bigger budgets, development teams, mainstream exposure and focus testing/debugging/etc means a verifiable better product.

Now, design philosophy? Yeah, THAT used to be better. Everything now is run through a checklist of things that need to be ticked before release because AA titles and studios only exist in the Indie and Mobile scenes, which relegates all of the "risk taking," and new ideas to titles that your average enthusiast isn't even going to know EXIST.

AAA titles are created from AAA studios, the worst of which only care about making the knife sharp enough to bleed you of as much money as possible, and the best of which want to take creative risks, but can't, because Daddy Warbucks has a tight leash over all the decision making.

This is why the industry wide "norms," are so slow to change and we're seeing games now that behave like PS3/360 launch titles with a fresh coat of paint and better functioning innards. Risks can only be taken at the micro level. Every linear, narrative driven TPS or open world sandbox RPG can only change elements in the minutae, and if one of those changes doesn't hurt sales, it will give another game or studio carte blanche to push it a little bit further, and the result is game design that doesn't resemble evolution so much as erosion, slow and deliberate.

 

[MrS]

Strong disagree. We're currently in the golden age.

 

[ForestVSea]

Games are technically better, the people making them are just worse

 

[JOEVIAL]

I do agree that microtransactions, pay to win mechanics, loot boxes, mobile games, etc, have made it much harder to separate the good from the bad.

Other than that, we need specific examples.

Don't need to give any specific game examples... that wouldn't do any good. What you mentioned is absolutely what I am talking about though.

As I said in the OP, I am not saying all modern games are subjectively worse. I really like a lot of modern games. You said it more to the point though... all the predatory mechanics have made it difficult to differentiate the good from the bad. Like this game has amazing visuals, and really good gameplay... but oh right.... I have to pay another $10-$20 to get the full experience. These mechanics are spreading liking a cancer through the industry and it's painfully obvious to anyone who truly looks.

 

[Fuz]

Stop playing heavily marketed AAA trash.

But there actually are some trends that really fuck up gaming nowadays.

 

[jaysius]

What happened was game making shifted from being about a creative process to create a fun product for a consumer, to now a long term project that never ends and it milks the consumer for all their worth, because now the consumer is there to be abused, not served.

The money got TOO BIG and when money gets TOO BIG greedy fucks get involved, then they started applying business models like those that ruin the music industry because BIG MONEY doesn't understand how the creative process takes time to make a good product.

This is why we have yearly franchises now, or almost yearly with almost no innovation.

Something that has greatly aided BIG MONEY with the selling of trash are the Youtubers and other "influencers" they're the average joe(LOL YEA RIGHT) that just wants to share their average joe opinions about product X, where even negatives about said product that do get mentioned get washed over, and they become a factor of pride "These razers don't shave very well, and they cut my face open, BUT they make me be MORE careful when I use them, and it just means I need to care for myself MORE when I shave... I LOVE THESE RAZERS THEY HAVE NO FLAWS!T They WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE!!!! BUY THEM NOW!!!". You might laugh at this, but this is how almost everything in gaming is being shilled marketed today.

 

[jshackles]

the golden era of mechanics is over, i'll give you that much

everything stalled around 2006

I dunno man

All of these games released in 2007 alone.

 

[SegaShack]

I love my collection of older games, movies, movies, on all kinds of formats. Instead of getting mad I can't buy more music in the style of The Beatles or games like Daytona USA, I can just enjoy the great things I have always enjoyed.

 

[M1chl]

Seems like you haven't play this masterpiece:

 

[SegaShack]

What happened was game making shifted from being about a creative process to create a fun product for a consumer, to now a long term project that never ends and it milks the consumer for all their worth, because now the consumer is there to be abused, not served.

The money got TOO BIG and when money gets TOO BIG greedy fucks get involved, then they started applying business models like those that ruin the music industry because BIG MONEY doesn't understand how the creative process takes time to make a good product.

This is why we have yearly franchises now, or almost yearly with almost no innovation.

Something that has greatly aided BIG MONEY with the selling of trash are the Youtubers and other "influencers" they're the average joe(LOL YEA RIGHT) that just wants to share their average joe opinions about product X, where even negatives about said product that do get mentioned get washed over, and they become a factor of pride "These razers don't shave very well, and they cut my face open, BUT they make me be MORE careful when I use them, and it just means I need to care for myself MORE when I shave... I LOVE THESE RAZERS THEY HAVE NO FLAWS!". You might laugh at this, but this is how almost everything in gaming is being shilled marketed today.

This is the double edged sword though. People want these unrealistically big games with amazing graphics that cost 300 million dollars to make.

The only way a studio will do that is to make a long term product that nickel and dimes the buyers, and not a one time purchase product.

My feelings on this? Use graphics like the PS2 days to keep budgets down, dont make games massive, keep the games simple and fun.

Everyone seems to want games like Anthem, The Division, and Watch Dogs. I'd much rather have a game like Sonic Mania or Cuphead.

 

[GHG]

I alluded to this in the OP, but it was getting too long.

Yes... my post was directed towards the heavily marketed AAA games of today (Fortnite, Halo Infinite, Madden). As opposed to the heavily marketed games of the past (Super Mario Bros, Crash Bandicoot, Metal Gear Solid). It's a clear and stark difference between what was popular than, to what is popular now.

I don't get it... Games like Mario, mgs and crash bandicoot are still around and still have big marketing budgets (and they still sell well).

The only difference now is that the marketing strategies are more intense. So you get bombarded with a bunch of stuff you're not necessarily interested in and it can be difficult to check out in that sense.

You just need to be a bit more resistant to the typical "hype cycles" and stick to genres and types of games you are interested in. Focus on those and filter out the noise if it bothers you.

 

[JOEVIAL]

Games are inherently, statistically better now. Bigger budgets, development teams, mainstream exposure and focus testing/debugging/etc means a verifiable better product.

Now, design philosophy? Yeah, THAT used to be better. Everything now is run through a checklist of things that need to be ticked before release because AA titles and studios only exist in the Indie and Mobile scenes, which relegates all of the "risk taking," and new ideas to titles that your average enthusiast isn't even going to know EXIST.

AAA titles are created from AAA studios, the worst of which only care about making the knife sharp enough to bleed you of as much money as possible, and the best of which want to take creative risks, but can't, because Daddy Warbucks has a tight leash over all the decision making.

This is why the industry wide "norms," are so slow to change and we're seeing games now that behave like PS3/360 launch titles with a fresh coat of paint and better functioning innards. Risks can only be taken at the micro level. Every linear, narrative driven TPS or open world sandbox RPG can only change elements in the minutae, and if one of those changes doesn't hurt sales, it will give another game or studio carte blanche to push it a little bit further, and the result is game design that doesn't resemble evolution so much as erosion, slow and deliberate.

Yeah I was thinking on naming the thread "DESIGN PHILOSOPHY USED TO BE BETTER" because I totally agree. Yeah... I'm talking some sense into myself I suppose. The "good" games of today ARE in fact better than the "good" games of the past.

It's just that... games that should have been good, or considered good today... are often filled with predatory mechanics and trends which is making my view on modern gaming more jaded. I admit to that. I don't play most AAA games because of this... just been sticking to Indie games lately which is a reminder of how good games can actually be.

 

[TheInfamousKira]

I dunno man

All of these games released in 2007 alone.

And these were all great titles. The first eight times they were repainted and released as new products. The issue is game devs aren't looking at these successes as stepping stones toward something greater, but as templates to aesthetically alter and claim is something "new and exciting,"

 

[TommyCronin6969]

There was no need for them paragraphs you should of just had that picture by itself.

 

[Tesseract]

I dunno man

All of these games released in 2007 alone.

good arguments here, problem is most or all of these games are mechanically disadvantaged to prequel counterparts or skunk work mods from freelancers

tfc stomps all over tf2, smg is fun but 64 trounces it in most areas, crysis a technical showpiece but grossly inferior to something like hl2, bioshock not even close to system, so forth

just my opinions and ymmv depending on what systems we're scrutinizing

 

[StormCell]

Gaming is better today in some aspects, but then there are also some significant drawbacks. The ways in which it is better is in how ideas are better realized now thanks to expansive worlds that allow creators to nail what they have in mind. You also count discount the availability of so many games from over the decades--all of it is available at a button press. Of course, the significant drawbacks are almost all from the business end with mtx, rushed game releases, patches, DLC that could have been part of the original package, etc.

Gaming is good right now, but it far, far from a golden age. We have witnessed the wholesale extinction of so many IPs. Just glance at the sports games to see how homogeneous that has become. Prior to PS360, it was believed that EA and it's sports lineup could single-handedly decide the victor of a generation. Today, EA doesn't even do most sports, and their Madden and FIFA titles are garbage bin quality but still sell. Same goes for all sports titles--they're absolute trash like something you would attempt to play on mobile.

If you want the kind of variety that used to exist, you have to turn to the indie scene. However, even the indie scene is accused of being too derivative. If they had masterful creativity from the start, why would they be indie and not already hugely successful? Basically, I'm saying you can't expect to find all your favorite missing genres hiding in the indie pile.

 

[jaysius]

Yeah I was thinking on naming the thread "DESIGN PHILOSOPHY USED TO BE BETTER" because I totally agree. Yeah... I'm talking some sense into myself I suppose. The "good" games of today ARE in fact better than the "good" games of the past.

It's just that... games that should have been good, or considered good today... are often filled with predatory mechanics and trends which is making my view on modern gaming more jaded. I admit to that. I don't play most AAA games because of this... just been sticking to Indie games lately which is a reminder of how good games can actually be.

You know what's really caused all this overall to get worse? Our understanding of human psychology and sick fucks that understand how to manipulate it so well. It's why we have so many microtransactions and why we have the hype cycle, why we have so many fanbois(they're a byproduct). Also people have figured out how to leverage the fear of missing out(FOMO) to such a razer's edge that it's disgusting.

The gaming industry now is more about creating anxiety(console wars, fanbois, hype cycle, pre-order bonuses, etc) in the end user than delivering fun.

 

[Tesseract]

You know what's really caused all this overall to get worse? Our understanding of human psychology and sick fucks that understand how to manipulate it so well. It's why we have so many microtransactions and why we have the hype cycle, why we have so many fanbois(they're a byproduct).

yeah, i'll def agree with this

went down some dark roads w / human psychology over the last decade, companies like valve did the public no favors with some of their findings

 

[lame gag1990]

In some ways, definitely. Not always the case though. But don't play the modern AAA stuff. It's mostly shit.

 

[JOEVIAL]

You know what's really caused all this overall to get worse? Our understanding of human psychology and sick fucks that understand how to manipulate it so well. It's why we have so many microtransactions and why we have the hype cycle, why we have so many fanbois(they're a byproduct).

Exactly... people have figured out how to manipulate through predatory design mechanics in games. Capitalizing as much as possible.

The only manipulation in the 80's and 90's was making a game that was so fun and enjoyable... that you had to keep playing or putting in another quarter.

 

[jaysius]

Exactly... people have figured out how to manipulate through predatory design mechanics in games. Capitalizing as much as possible.

The only manipulation in the 80's and 90's was making a game that was so fun and enjoyable... that you had to keep playing or putting in another quarter.

The only way to fight it, is to recognize and try to inform, BUT and this is a BIG BUT, people being abused in the system HATE to be told that they're being abused because company XYZ LOVES THEM and has produced so many great things, they'd NEVER HARM THEM.

This mind virus goes DEEP into the ego, so deep that it's in the subconscious and almost impossible to recognize and undefeatable to many. This is because of the personality types it predates. The more you IDENFITY the issue, the more defensive the person gets and the more ingrained into their mind that they're RIGHT and you're WRONG becomes. The people that argue these things usually have simple comebacks like "I see your tinfoil hat" or they simply attack your username or something else ad hominem because they have no creative problem solving skills.

 

[SEGA_2012]

I wish we could go back to the PS3/360/Wii/DS era.

 

[bender]

Two of my favorite games this year are Nioh 2 and Curse of the Moon 2. You just need to choose how you spend your time better. There are plenty of amazing games that release on the regular.

 

[Rentahamster]

Until you put quantifiable metrics on your definition of what "better" means, this is all subjective banter talking past each other.

 

[llien]

About to replay "God of War" (with "New Game+" mode)

Too many first person shooters perhaps, games used to be more original when... I was younger.

 

[Birdo]

The days of innovation are long gone.

But that doesn't mean that all modern games suck. You just need to dig a little to find the good stuff.

 

[N0S]

You can buy SM3D all-stars for 60 bucks on September 21st op.

 

[Great Hair]

​

We had better movies We had better music We had better games

And none of that contemporary euphemistic-infested-artsy-fartsy-$60 multiplayer only bullshit.
​

Onimusha, GT, TXR, DMC, RE, Suikoden, FFT, HL2, Ridge Racer, BurnOut waaay too many to list ... etc.etc. all got replaced by indie-mbile-GAAS-crap. Back then, we had every year 10x damn good games.

Now we have 1x every 5 years or so of a Bloodborne, Witcher 3 caliber.
Replaying Half Life 2 today feels like playing something new, fresh.​

For each Kena, Little Devil Inisde, Cuphead there are 10,000 shovelware, mobile, indie games. Games are way too long these days, every asshole wants to have an open world, every dipshit need to have an online mode else they wont buy it, most games are not fun anymore.

I have seen, played all of them already.
VR better be the next big thing.

Yours truly, Betty.

 

[Vawn]

Nah. Things just seemed better when you were younger.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Games were better because the number one priority was the gameplay itself. That’s gone out the window now with AAA devs.

 

[onQ123]

It's just that you loved games more when you was a kid.


If you take all these kids having fun playing Fortnite , Roblox & Minecraft & show them Golden Eye 64 , Mario & Sonic & tell them to play these games instead of the games they love they would think you was crazy.

But some of the new generation of kids do like the old school games.