Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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King Harkinian said:


A terrible USB controller is in the XSX like Jeff Grubb claims?

At those speeds, it takes up to 40min to backup 200GB/Warfare and copy over another 200GB game. 185MB per second, we are talking slightly better sata1 (150MB+) speeds from 2003.

It could copy it back at nearly twice the speed (345MB/s out of the max. 600MB), no port issue to me. Seems more like Microsoft is pushing the gamer towards the purchase of their seagate expansion nvme, by limiting the speed on non-official drives?
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How did you get 40min??
 
Hix said:
It's more likely that MS are intentionally stopping reviewers, who have actual Xbox Series X models, from showing anything other than certain things at certain times as part of their road map.

Right now they are only allowed to show BC, but that will be expanded to the UI, then next gen games at a time agreed on with developers (embargoes etc)

DMC5 getting a post-release patch with RT is on the devs, they aren't putting RT on PC at all, for example. Similarly, Halo Infinite was getting an RT update post-release for PC also. If it really is a struggle with the Series X GDK, then it shouldn't be an issue for PC. Other games, however, are confirmed as launching with RT on Series X, such as The Medium.

Your speculation about development issues, are impossible to quantify. They may be true, but I think it's far more likely to suggest that MS hasn't shown much next gen stuff simply because it wants to drip feed the information flow leading up to launch.

I personally feel Sony is also following their own road map, which perhaps is the reverse of that of MS.
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Digital Foundry have confirmed the GDK is giving some devs trouble.

DMC5 is launching with RT on PS5, no issue there.

If Xbox had quality game footage, captured on Series X, to show of new games coming out, they would show it.
 
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Let's go boys
I'm Australian so u have to stand on your head

oytlbiB.jpg
 
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BlueXImpulse said:
I see Gav Odium has on his tin foil hat.
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What tin foil hat? That Sony deliberately gives PS5 to celebrities and influencers? I wouldn't call that tin foil hat, but just a marketing strategy of Sony that is pretty normal of them.

King Harkinian said:


A terrible USB controller is in the XSX like Jeff Grubb claims?

At those speeds, it takes up to 40min to backup 200GB/Warfare and copy over another 200GB game. 185MB per second, we are talking slightly better sata1 (150MB+) speeds from 2003.

It could copy it back at nearly twice the speed (345MB/s out of the max. 600MB), no port issue to me. Seems more like Microsoft is pushing the gamer towards the purchase of their seagate expansion nvme, by limiting the speed on non-official drives?
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Assassins creed origins is 42GB, so taking that 4.5min, it would only be 22.5min for CoD to backup.
 
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kyliethicc said:
Digital Foundry have confirmed the GDK is giving some devs trouble.

DMC5 is launching with RT on PS5, no issue there.

If Xbox had quality game footage, captured on Series X, to show of new games coming out, they would show it.
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So much for DF (Richard even!) being an Xbox shill, at least.

What he actually said was that he had heard some Devs found it more difficult because it was a change from the GDK of the Xbox One, while PS5 remained the same as PS4. So some devs found it comparatively more difficult, but that's obvious and doesn't mean it's actually difficult.

As stated, the example for games you provided also rings true for PC. It's on the devs, not the hardware.

I see no reason to suggest either MS or Sony are witholding information on their new consoles because there are issues. To say otherwise, on either side, is spreading FUD IMO.
 
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kyliethicc said:
Please, not this "developer" again
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He rather seems a bit more.. subdued than usual, though, doesn't he now? From the "pigeons" episode until today, there's been a long way, with quite a few reversals in the narrative. He still thinks his opinion matters, that's why he expresses it, but oh well, we all do have opinions now, don't we?

Anyway, his denial phase isn't completely over, he just thinks he's being elegant about it. Little does he know...
 
PSXQ8 said:
PS5 Boost Mode it seems been confirmed by leaker

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Don't understand what you want to say. The boost mode was already confirmed by Sony. Also that it would work directly with some titles but can be turned on (optional) by the user like on PS4 Pro.


btw, at least in germany it seems that retails stores won't offer the PS5 due to corona and the resulting customer-storm
www.gameswirtschaft.de

Einzel-Handelskrieg um die PlayStation 5 (Fröhlich am Freitag) - GamesWirtschaft.de

Nicht nur die Server der großen Online-Versender kommen durch PlayStation-5-Vorbesteller unter die Räder – auch der Service.
www.gameswirtschaft.de www.gameswirtschaft.de

Dass um den PS5-Erstverkaufstag (19.11.) herum überhaupt Ware in die Läden gelangt, gilt übrigens als ausgeschlossen – Filialen wurden unmissverständlich angewiesen, bis auf Weiteres keine Vorbestellungen der Laufkundschaft anzunehmen oder gar Wartelisten anzulegen, weil ohnehin alles in den Online-Vertrieb geht
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So distribution in germany seems just to be online. But I guess you can order online and than pick it up in the retail store (like Media Markt etc) if available.
 
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Hix said:
So much for DF (Richard even!) being an Xbox shill, at least.

What he actually said was that he had heard some Devs found it more difficult because it was a change from the GDK of the Xbox One, while PS5 remained the same as PS4. So some devs found it comparatively more difficult, but that's obvious and doesn't mean it's actually difficult.

As stated, the example for games you provided also rings true for PC. It's on the devs, not the hardware.

I see no reason to suggest either MS or Sony are witholding information on their new consoles because there are issues. To say otherwise, on either side, is spreading FUD IMO.
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Wow... because he is not hiding actively every possible bit of bad news he is unbiased defender of truth now :LOL:? Notice how the bad news is still delivered with an uplifting tone (vs news on something else being a lot more critical and cynical... look at how long he and Battaglia kept up the doubt over whether PS5 supported REAL HW RayTracing 😂): transparency can be a useful form of damage control if done wisely.
 
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Dubsteniel said:
How did you get 40min??
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Warfare 200GB / 200,000MB : 185MB/s = 1,081 seconds : 60 = 18min x 2 =

36min to 50min+ (on an USB3.0 drive@125MB)
25+ with said alleged bad nvme drive (to 185MB/from 345MB)
4min+ with seagate expansion card

kyliethicc said:
Wouldn't those copy times just indicate that the USB NVMe drive he used has a really slow write speed?
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Have you ever seen one? We are talking 0.185GB per second. Even the first nvme drive of 2014? had 1GB+ speeds or more. No clue how that drive can be so terrible, even the other he used (SSD@540MB) was as bad, as fast.

SSD@540MB = 185MB+
NVME@xxxxx = 185MB+
 
Panajev2001a said:
Wow... because he is not hiding actively every possible bit of bad news he is unbiased defender of truth now :LOL:? Notice how the bad news is still delivered with an uplifting tone (vs news on something else being a lot more critical and cynical): transparency can be a useful form of damage control if done wisely.
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You're free to keep thinking he's an Xbox shill if you want, but he did actively praise the PS5 in the same podcast for being beloved by every dev he spoke to, for what it's worth.

He's been accused, by Xbox fans, of being a Sony shill in the past for mocking the Xbox One reveal and slamming Halo Infinite, but in the end it doesn't really matter.

The point is, the PS5 carries over PS4 SDK, while Xbox Series has changed their SDK. This means more work for devs on while they adapt their current systems (and processes) and, obviously, you can encounter some issues which is totally normal but...yeah.
 
Oh damn!! People really are disappointed about the XSX SSD & USB speeds. You guys really fell for xbox marketing spin huh?? It was obvious that XSX was just of the shelf parts put together. They spent heavy on GPU not much else. I have been saying it ,its a suped up 1X. They went the PC model route. So this is how things play out. I'm surprised by many who expected better & believed Xbox PR. Fool me once ,fool twice and all that. Suppose to be smart folk no??

Just what it is lads.
 
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Hix said:
You're free to keep thinking he's an Xbox shill if you want, but he did actively praise the PS5 in the same podcast for being beloved by every dev he spoke to, for what it's worth.

He's been accused, by Xbox fans, of being a Sony shill in the past for mocking the Xbox One reveal and slamming Halo Infinite, but in the end it doesn't really matter.

The point is, the PS5 carries over PS4 SDK, while Xbox Series has changed their SDK. This means more work for devs on while they adapt their current systems (and processes) and, obviously, you can encounter some issues which is totally normal but...yeah.
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I get the issues with the GDK and why MS wants devs to move to it, but that is not the points. His record and Battaglia's one speak for themselves... they are not at the MrXmedia level, but if you think that not hiding all good PS5 news and all bad XSX news makes their Reporting unbiased well... I can see how you see what they said as ripping into Xbox as that is the most criticism that is accepted.

Bad Xbox news = sure, but insert good things waiting on the horizon... still excited. PS news? Cynical, proof is needed, concern raised, backhanded compliments, compliments but... how long did they essentially only have a hard time to PS5 over its raytracing implementation just to name one thing?

Sony is not giving them much access and unless they want to only survive on leaks they are hedging their bets and not pissing off the only big supplier giving them direct access (Nintendo surely is not either).
 
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Wraith Phantom said:
Oh damn!! People really are disappointed about the XSX SSD & USB speeds. You guys really fell for xbox marketing spin huh?? It was obvious that XSX was just of the shelf parts put together. They spent heavy on GPU not much else. I have been saying it ,its a suped up 1X. They went the PC model route. So this is how things play out. I'm surprised by many who expected better & believed Xbox PR. Fool me once ,fool twice and all that. Suppose to be smart folk no??

Just what it is lads.
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I think you are being unfair here. The BCPack HW decoder, their I/O co-processors, and Direct Storage API are still a key differentiator over PC's which will brute force it as usual with gazillion more RAM. I think PS5 has a considerably better solution there on the HW side, but Velocity Architecture is not just hype.

Sampler Feedback Streaming, although not a silver bullet, should help more devs get to grip with decent texture streaming and virtual texturing solutions too.
 
King Harkinian said:


A terrible USB controller is in the XSX like Jeff Grubb claims?

At those speeds, it takes up to 40min to backup 200GB/Warfare and copy over another 200GB game. 185MB per second, we are talking slightly better sata1 (150MB+) speeds from 2003.

It could copy it back at nearly twice the speed (345MB/s out of the max. 600MB), no port issue to me. Seems more like Microsoft is pushing the gamer towards the purchase of their seagate expansion nvme, by limiting the speed on non-official drives?
Click to expand...
Stuff like this makes me think the USB drivers might just not be optimized yet. This could conceivably be fixed in software, if the throughput on the port is the same in both directions.

EDIT: Also someone else suggested that the drive in the USB controller has slow write speeds. Also possible. However, 345MB/s (the write to internal) should be easily feasible on an SSD. That would have to be a pretty shitty SSD he put in the USB enclosure.
 
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Defrop said:
🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Dude, this guy must have had the suffered so much for the last 7 years. Like jesus christ, his favourite brand has the stronger console, bought a fucking publisher for 7.5 bln and is probably not done yet. And that is somehow not enough. The PS5 cant possibly be better on one aspect.
 
King Harkinian said:


A terrible USB controller is in the XSX like Jeff Grubb claims?

At those speeds, it takes up to 40min to backup 200GB/Warfare and copy over another 200GB game. 185MB per second, we are talking slightly better sata1 (150MB+) speeds from 2003.

It could copy it back at nearly twice the speed (345MB/s out of the max. 600MB), no port issue to me. Seems more like Microsoft is pushing the gamer towards the purchase of their seagate expansion nvme, by limiting the speed on non-official drives?
Click to expand...

The internal SSD has super high write speeds.
Those other external SSDS have not.
So of course from internal to external is slower, because the external SSD is limiting.
The internal SSD can write faster and keep up with the read speed and transfer of the external SSD

The speed and throughput is always the same no matter the direction.
And the internal SSD can't be the bottleneck, because it's faster in the other discipline.
It's logic. It just looks weird to be slower that way.
 
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Neo Blaster said:
That's curious, because we've just seen Yakuza, a Xbox timed next gen upgrade exclusive, running on PS5 but not on XSX yet.
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Then it's part of their marketing strategy OR let's take the most ridiculous thought. Games don't run on XSX
 
prinz_valium said:
The internal SSD has super high write speeds.
Those other external SSDS have not.
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We all know that. BUT in his first video, he used an SSD external by seagate (XBX), limited to 540MB and in the second video he used an nvme ... both were equally bad, fast (at 185MB or roughly 4min30s).

It´s definitely not the hardware, else he picked two external drives with different internal connections that happen to have the same write speed?
 
CrysisFreak said:
Why did he end up like that it's sad.
Wasn't he kinda unbiased a while ago or am I misremebering?
This is crazy.
Especially because Austin Evans, Brad Sams, Jez Corden and co are so professional and unbiased right?
Insanity.
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He tried to seem unbiased but a pigeon is still a pigeon no matter how hard it tries to pretend to be a duck.
 
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Defrop said:
🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Well gav stevens should ask a game dev that actually makes games if he wants to know more.

He knows nothing about loading or ingame load times other than what we all read. Why do people qyuote him on here ?

Also both MS and Sony are using you tubers and gaming sites, the water is wet and the sky is blue.
 
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Hix said:
If you're going to spread FUD and console war, try to at least not be so wrong

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Yet, why are the only games we've seen running on it BC ones and an indie? We've already seen many multis running on PS5, so it's not a case of games not ready to be shown. It's not a hardware problem, because MS already started shipments, so it's probably something related to devkits and APIs.
 
Dan_of_Rivia said:
What makes you say that? has something been leaked or announced?
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Japanese content creators will be able to release their playtime with the PS5. I bet they have already recorded much of their videos

Insane Metal said:
At least we're getting to see actual nextgen games and not backwards compatibility bullshit.
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Who knows? We know next to nothing at this point.

xacto said:
Do we bookmark this, mate?

If you're right, I am not getting popcorn, I'll go with red wine 😉
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Well, the Japanese will surely publish their videos. What we will see, or understand, it's up to debate.

And make no mistake: the glorious part will not be the content per se, but the war that will bring down NeoGAF. Hence the popcorn!
 
Neo Blaster said:
Yet, why are the only games we've seen running on it BC ones and an indie? We've already seen many multis running on PS5, so it's not a case of games not ready to be shown. It's not a hardware problem, because MS already started shipments, so it's probably something related to devkits and APIs.
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They haven't shown any major stuff running on actual hardware. Not only that, but, one of their timed exclusive games was only shown running on PS5 😅
 
King Harkinian said:


A terrible USB controller is in the XSX like Jeff Grubb claims?

At those speeds, it takes up to 40min to backup 200GB/Warfare and copy over another 200GB game. 185MB per second, we are talking slightly better sata1 (150MB+) speeds from 2003.

It could copy it back at nearly twice the speed (345MB/s out of the max. 600MB), no port issue to me. Seems more like Microsoft is pushing the gamer towards the purchase of their seagate expansion nvme, by limiting the speed on non-official drives?
Click to expand...
Isn't the external drive writing speed the bottleneck here? Which drive did he use?
 
.
geordiemp said:
There are allot of concern FUD spreaders on new GAF accounts or dormant ones that have come to life with ps5 concern, starting new thraeds to FUD, its easy to spot and laughable.

If such posters believe this behavoir is endearing or makes us like the mS brand, it works the other way. Call out to @X-Fighter and other decent posters.
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I am here, oh wait this is technical stuff your talking about isn't it. fs "lollipop_disappointed:
 
Hix said:
I think it's far more likely to suggest that MS hasn't shown much next gen stuff simply because it wants to drip feed the information flow leading up to launch.
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Are you really saying they have intentionally given up showing those 12 TF and gaining mind share after so many events because they want a 'mic drop' moment very close to launch?
 
Zoro7 said:
Do you think that the PS5 version just runs better? Could be a possibility.
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That's more likely at least. Since DF also said that developers had issues with latest GDK of Microsoft, and that everything was working so well and easy with PS5 I can imagine that at launch games will look better on the PS5. Won't stay like that though.
 
X-Fighter said:
That's more likely at least. Since DF also said that developers had issues with latest GDK of Microsoft, and that everything was working so well and easy with PS5 I can imagine that at launch games will look better on the PS5. Won't stay like that though.
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For sure. It's usually awhile before new consoles are being fully utilised. Will be interesting to see how games will look on both systems in a couple years.
 
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