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[Panajev2001a]

they could be pushing things till the final moments, and have 2 final designs, one downgraded, one best case scenario.

No, I do not think so... too late for that and very costly for no reason. Unlikely, very much so IMHO.

Also, they are saying area was cut and a pipeline/unit is missing more than Ryzen 1 FPU being used to replace the Ryzen 2 FPU (for a core like Ryzen 2 which had been finished by AMD and ready for integration a long long time ago).

still the loss of full avx256 is disappointing, i think such fpu logic helps with games, and i remember some devs were excited with real avx256 finally. so its likely ps5 runs it at half speed?

We do not yet know what we are losing. Ryzen 1 had support for AVX-256 instructions split over two clock cycles but also twice the units too (with half width data paths of course) which is the strategy they added 128 bits instructions in earlier core, split over double the amount of half width units and pipelined. You also have to couple that with the amount of AVX-256 code in the instruction mix to understand the weight of the impact of such a change (and realise most of the heavy vector math you would need to run is running inside the Tempest Engine and the GPU CU's).

 

[Lanrutcon]

I have nothing to add.

Other than I too am a super genius engineer who knows what all this means for real.

 

[Allandor]

which goes with what @ethomaz was saying:

A lot of that GCN -> RDNA2 performance improvement per clock is just from unoptimized code. GCN could perform very well, if the code suits it. E.g. that's why GCN is still used for the professional market. A big part of the improvement of RDNA1&2 we can see is because RDNA1&2 can be maxed out much easier, while GCN has always some headroom and you just don't get it squeezed out if the code isn't really optimized for that architecture.

So the normal developer will have improved performance on RDNA based GPUs (as RDNA does not need so highly optimized code to get it all on the road).

 

[FranXico]

This guy analyzed the XSX GPU in X-ray and discovered that the console's GPU is more or less close to the RDNA1 than the RDNA2 Desktop GPU.

He says that the base has a lot of the RDNA1 architecture with RDNA2 features.

The console GPUs were developed alongside RDNA2, and even informed its final design. Any sensible person would easily understand that this would be the case for both consoles.

Note: I'm not calling you out as much as the pathetic little trolls who are LOLing at your comment.

 

[Panajev2001a]

A lot of that GCN -> RDNA2 performance improvement per clock is just from unoptimized code. GCN could perform very well, if the code suits it. E.g. that's why GCN is still used for the professional market. A big part of the improvement of RDNA1&2 we can see is because RDNA1&2 can be maxed out much easier, while GCN has always some headroom and you just don't get it squeezed out if the code isn't really optimized for that architecture.

So the normal developer will have improved performance on RDNA based GPUs (as RDNA does not need so highly optimized code to get it all on the road).

I am aware AMD split the two lines and is using the bandwidth hungry flexible Vega line for their HPC Compute optimised lines and thanks for the concise summary , but that was not the point. We are comparing like for like and in the same arena (graphics and gaming workloads) where both AMD and MS described the IPC gains from GCN to RDNA1 and from Xbox One X CU's (GCN) to Xbox Series X CU's (RDNA).

 

[MonarchJT]

which goes with what @ethomaz was saying:

ethomaz e panajev you've been playing with a gain of 25% for a while are you by chance insinuating that the xsx could be rdna1? just to make it clear. It been debunked also on Locuza part after the die shot. end it here )

we now have just to wait for who was right about the ps5)

 

[Panajev2001a]

ethomaz e panajev you've been playing with a gain of 25 for a while are you by chance insinuating that the xsx is rdna1? just to make it clear

Just saying, not insinuating, that both consoles have a mix of features and characteristics from RDNA1,2, and some bits not in either.
You are the one that called the AMD leaker a bullshitter and is trying their best not to talk about that. Locuza video below did not really crap on that but called the two similar actually.

(then again, lack of infinity cache, which is part of all RDNA2 based GPU's IIRC, could explain some of it too).

Locuza video on XSX (you are using his analysis for the FPU bit too):

 

[MonarchJT]

Just saying, not insinuating, that both consoles have a mix of features and characteristics from RDNA1,2, and some bits not in either.
You are the one that called the AMD leaker a bullshitter and is trying their best not to talk about this bit.

(then again, lack of infinity cache, which is part of all RDNA2 based GPU's IIRC, could explain some of it too).

of course there are part of rdna1 are customized gpu
i told you.....we know that the configuration of the cu's are in the rdna1 manner but are rdna2 for this reason that leaked got it half right
xsx is customized to support everysingle feature of rdna2 architecture and this is a fact
we are still in a unknown territory about the ps5 but we are already excluding the BS.
no unified cpu l3
no IC in the gpu
and I'm sure there's nothing about rdna3 too lol
let's wait for more info

Certainly I have seen the video (well done) of Locuza and he too concludes that the xsx is absolutely (albeit customized) an rdna2 based gpu

 

[Panajev2001a]

of course there are part of rdna1 are customized gpu
i told you.....we know that the configuration of the cu's are in the rdna1 manner but are rdna2 for this reason that leaked got it half right
xsx is customized to support everysingle feature of rdna2 architecture and this is a fact
we are still in a unknown territory about the ps5 but we are already excluding the BS.
no unified cpu l3
no IC in the gpu
and I'm sure there's nothing about rdna3 too lol
let's wait for more info

Considering the actual measured performance in a good array of games the worse you make PS5 architecture sounds with labels and numbers the worse XSX sounds, I hope you realise that.

You are saying that XSX started from RDNA1 and added RDNA2 features on top...fair, I thought this was taboo talk, by the way.

Still, we can agree on both consoles having a mix of features from RDNA generations and some likely in neither which fits the talk given by Cerny for example (I am giving XSX's GPU the benefit of the doubt to have post RDNA2 features/customisations even when they have not claimed to have any post RDNA2 feature).
Cache scrubbers for example are one feature, then again one of the possible implementations to solve a common problem, that is likely not going to be in any RDNA GPU as AMD might not have use for it on desktop where they have a lot of RAM bandwidth and not nearly as much sustained disk I/O to trash the GPU ca

 

[longdi]

No, I do not think so... too late for that and very costly for no reason. Unlikely, very much so IMHO.

Also, they are saying area was cut and a pipeline/unit is missing more than Ryzen 1 FPU being used to replace the Ryzen 2 FPU (for a core like Ryzen 2 which had been finished by AMD and ready for integration a long long time ago).


We do not yet know what we are losing. Ryzen 1 had support for AVX-256 instructions split over two clock cycles but also twice the units too (with half width data paths of course) which is the strategy they added 128 bits instructions in earlier core, split over double the amount of half width units and pipelined. You also have to couple that with the amount of AVX-256 code in the instruction mix to understand the weight of the impact of such a change (and realise most of the heavy vector math you would need to run is running inside the Tempest Engine and the GPU CU's).

i hope we get clearer image. is the person interpreting the die the same one who took the image?

you made it sound worser with a chunk of it being removed. idk fair to call ps5 cpu a 'zen2-'? not surprising as consoles are constrain boxes, but would have like one with full cpu cores intact

 

[Panajev2001a]

i hope we get clearer image. is the person interpreting the die the same one who took the image?

you made it sound worser with a chunk of it being removed. idk fair to call ps5 cpu a 'zen2-'? not surprising as consoles are constrain boxes, but would have like one with full cpu cores intact

If you are interested in purity maybe, but in the end what matters is performance that can be taken advantage of at a particular price point and power budget (heat constraints and clockspeed constraints).

The consoles are using customised Ryzen 2 cores and in Sony's case this might have been a slight reworking of the FPU to get say 90% or more of the performance they wanted out of them with a non trivial reduction in area per core and power consumption. PS5 is not running Windows or a derivative of that (unlike XSX) and they do not have to work against a unified SDK for consoles and PC's... so it is not unreasonable that they found they could save quite a bit on the FPU without losing a lot of real world performance.

Again, given the game comparisons so far (120 Hz scenarios included) the worse you assume the PS5 HW is in terms of specs, the worst you are making XSX look.
Imagine if the console were a 8-9 TFLOPS RDNA1 based GPU console with a badly cut Ryzen 1 core... and it still goes toe to toe with the full Ryzen 2 core and 12 TFLOPS RDNA2 CU's? One of the two teams of architects would get a kick up the arse and it might not be the one you might be thinking of .

 

[FatKingBallman]

I recall when telling people I didn't buy that nonsense from youtubers about a unified L3 cache on the PS5 CPU, I was attacked for saying so. Surely people have to realize those guys are just making stuff up now, right? They literally just say whatever people want to hear to get their video views and likes up.

Same as you didn't buy the hardware RT from Cerny? Then you whined later why you got attacked. Poor guy!

All in all, that shit is confusing as hell. Let's just enjoy the games lol.

Oh really! Looks like you're enjoying for spreading crap here more than enjoying games :

UL releases 3DMark Mesh Shaders Feature test, first results of NVIDIA Ampere and AMD RDNA2 GPUs

Source Edit: RX 6800XT before and after drivers update

www.neogaf.com

None of these early games are remotely tapping what these consoles can do, not a one. People may also not want to hear this, but it is true that some work needs to be done on the Series X development side of things. Microsoft built an entirely brand new development kit, and there are quite a few new features available that Microsoft are pushing with DX 12 Ultimate that no developer/game is yet taking advantage of. It will take time for developers to come to grips with all of this.

Oh, the tools excuse. Isn't that nice

 

[Concern]

No surprise how a thread about the Ps5 die turns in "bu bu but xsx is rdna1" lol.

One gave us die shots almost a year ago, while the other didn't till 3 months after launch. If the specs are everything you said they were. Why hide it so long?

 

[Panajev2001a]

No surprise how a thread about the Ps5 die turns in "bu bu but xsx is rdna1" lol.

One gave us die shots almost a year ago, while the other didn't till 3 months after launch. If the specs are everything you said they were. Why hide it so long?

Possibly, but fear, uncertainty, and doubt around the mystery of why Sony communicated the way they did (did Cerny's Sony even volunteered PS4's SoC shots btw? That would be a bit of a hole in that argument) is quite moot months after the consoles launched on the market and we are seeing how exclusives and multi-platform games perform .

 

[kyliethicc]

PS5 SOC

~ 300 mm^2 die area
~ 1.78 ratio rectangular die
~ 13 mm wide x ~ 23.25 mm long

~ 210 mm^2 for GPU + RAM bus
~ 40 mm^2 for CPU
~ 50 mm^2 for I/O + misc


XSX SOC

360 mm^2 die area
~ 1.5 ratio rectangular die
~ 15.5 mm wide x ~ 23.25 mm long

~ 280 mm^2 for GPU + RAM bus
~ 40 mm^2 for CPU
~ 40 mm^2 for I/O + misc

 

[FatKingBallman]

ethomaz e panajev you've been playing with a gain of 25% for a while are you by chance insinuating that the xsx could be rdna1? just to make it clear. It been debunked also on Locuza part after the die shot. end it here )

we now have just to wait for who was right about the ps5)

Just saying, not insinuating, that both consoles have a mix of features and characteristics from RDNA1,2, and some bits not in either.
You are the one that called the AMD leaker a bullshitter and is trying their best not to talk about that. Locuza video below did not really crap on that but called the two similar actually.

(then again, lack of infinity cache, which is part of all RDNA2 based GPU's IIRC, could explain some of it too).

Locuza video on XSX (you are using his analysis for the FPU bit too):

Will just quote myself what i've posted few pages back. It falls in line what Yuko and Richard Leadbetter said about XSX CUs

Here is the official full HotChips conference for XSX. Of course, there isn't slide for every word they've said. It's impossible to make slides that much. LOL

But anyway :

"Architecturally these CUs have 25% better performance per clock on average graphics workloads relative to the GCN generation"

Timestamped at 16:50

 

[Panajev2001a]

PS5 SOC

~ 300 mm^2 die area
~ 1.78 ratio rectangular die
~ 13 mm wide x ~ 23.25 mm long

~ 210 mm^2 for GPU + RAM bus
~ 40 mm^2 for CPU
~ 50 mm^2 for I/O + misc


XSX SOC

360 mm^2 die area
~ 1.5 ratio rectangular die
~ 15.5 mm wide x ~ 23.25 mm long

~ 280 mm^2 for GPU + RAM bus
~ 40 mm^2 for CPU
~ 40 mm^2 for I/O + misc

I think we need to separate the Memory Controllers out (XSX has more and we are trying to understand a bit better what the I/O and misc sections are).
Also, PS5's CPU section should be smaller than the XSX one unless the XSX also uses the reworked ("cut" FPU) which would leave even more to the I/O and misc area side of things.

 

[azertydu91]

No surprise how a thread about the Ps5 die turns in "bu bu but xsx is rdna1" lol.

One gave us die shots almost a year ago, while the other didn't till 3 months after launch. If the specs are everything you said they were. Why hide it so long?

So much concern .... it's like some people said ps5 was rdna 1 and it bounced to the xsx too, but surprisingly you missed or don't care when people call ps5 rdna 1 or 1.5.

 

[Riky]

Please stop with all this RDNA1 stupidity and insinuation for either console. Instead of trying to make conclusions based on X-rays it is far easier to go to the people who should know, the people who designed the chips.

I wouldn't listen to any of this rubbish, AMD themselves have made it perfectly clear and I think they are probably the most reliable source for this information.

"

AMD RDNA™ 2 architecture is the foundation for next-generation PC gaming graphics, the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series S and X consoles."

https://www.amd.com/en/technologies/rdna-2

It doesn't get anymore concrete than that.

 

[FatKingBallman]

No surprise how a thread about the Ps5 die turns in "bu bu but xsx is rdna1" lol.

One gave us die shots almost a year ago, while the other didn't till 3 months after launch. If the specs are everything you said they were. Why hide it so long?

Don't blame us why Xbox engineers said it has 25% performance per clock gain.

To asking ourselves why "low powered" PS5 outperforming XSX in some games. I know, it is sad for Xbox fans.

 

[Concern]

Possibly, but fear, uncertainty, and doubt around the mystery of why Sony communicated the way they did (did Cerny's Sony even volunteered PS4's SoC shots btw? That would be a bit of a hole in that argument) is quite moot months after the consoles launched on the market and we are seeing how exclusives and multi-platform games perform .

As I said on the first page. It doesn't matter considering how games are performing. Just curious how another thread about Sony became about Xbox.

And iirc neither offered soc shots for last gen.

 

[kyliethicc]

I think we need to separate the Memory Controllers out (XSX has more and we are trying to understand a bit better what the I/O and misc sections are).
Also, PS5's CPU section should be smaller than the XSX one unless the XSX also uses the reworked ("cut" FPU) which would leave even more to the I/O and misc area side of things.

Well the PS5 has about ~ 70% of the XSX CUs and ~ 80% of the RAM PHYs. Call it ~ 75% total, so thats 210/280.

As for the CPU sizes, I'm sure they are a few millimeters different but too small for me to estimate.

Its hard because we still don't even know exactly how big the PS5 die is. Just a rough guess for fun.

 

[longdi]

If you are interested in purity maybe, but in the end what matters is performance that can be taken advantage of at a particular price point and power budget (heat constraints and clockspeed constraints).

The consoles are using customised Ryzen 2 cores and in Sony's case this might have been a slight reworking of the FPU to get say 90% or more of the performance they wanted out of them with a non trivial reduction in area per core and power consumption. PS5 is not running Windows or a derivative of that (unlike XSX) and they do not have to work against a unified SDK for consoles and PC's... so it is not unreasonable that they found they could save quite a bit on the FPU without losing a lot of real world performance.

Again, given the game comparisons so far (120 Hz scenarios included) the worse you assume the PS5 HW is in terms of specs, the worst you are making XSX look.
Imagine if the console were a 8-9 TFLOPS RDNA1 based GPU console with a badly cut Ryzen 1 core... and it still goes toe to toe with the full Ryzen 2 core and 12 TFLOPS RDNA2 CU's? One of the two teams of architects would get a kick up the arse and it might not be the one you might be thinking of .

it is cliche already, but still it's likely the tools team that needs a kick up their arse.

wonder if we will have some Ubisoft or Epic internal leaks, you know the one that benchmarked between consoles, would like to know how much loss the fpu cuts caused. 90%? 50%?

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Just saying, not insinuating, that both consoles have a mix of features and characteristics from RDNA1,2, and some bits not in either.
You are the one that called the AMD leaker a bullshitter and is trying their best not to talk about that. Locuza video below did not really crap on that but called the two similar actually.

(then again, lack of infinity cache, which is part of all RDNA2 based GPU's IIRC, could explain some of it too).

Locuza video on XSX (you are using his analysis for the FPU bit too):

Thanks a lot for the details, this makes sense performance-wise now.

 

[azertydu91]

As I said on the first page. It doesn't matter considering how games are performing. Just curious how another thread about Sony became about Xbox.

And iirc neither offered soc shots for last gen.

** please disregard my last shitty post as I move the goalpost to another previous post**

 

[DemonCleaner]

This guy analyzed the XSX GPU in X-ray and discovered that the console's GPU is more or less close to the RDNA1 than the RDNA2 Desktop GPU.

He says that the base has a lot of the RDNA1 architecture with RDNA2 features.

you should watch the video again

 

[Panajev2001a]

it is cliche already, but still it's likely the tools team that needs a kick up their arse.

wonder if we will have some Ubisoft or Epic internal leaks, you know the one that benchmarked between consoles, would like to know how much loss the fpu cuts caused. 90%? 50%?

Maybe 5-6% or less (likely less), Sony ain't dumb and to save this little space all things considered the performance impact must be really minimal.
They do not sell theoretical specs to devs, but platforms: devs are not toddlers influenced by shiny keys with fancy labels... they can smell bullshit quite well. Devs seems to be very happy with PS5 too.

Also, system architecture includes the software and tools picture too anyways: you are responsible for everything ultimately (and to rely on the best subject area matter experts for each discipline)... performance, price, power consumption, manufacturing costs, dev kits and ease/efficiency of dev tooling, OS, etc...

 

[azertydu91]

Maybe 5-6% or less (likely less), Sony ain't dumb and to save this little space all things considered the performance impact must be really minimal.
They do not sell theoretical specs to devs, but platforms: devs are not toddlers influenced by shiny keys with fancy labels... they can smell bullshit quite well. Devs seems to be very happy with PS5 too.

But what about PR bulletpoint to mislead people?

Has anyone thought about the poor PR people?

Edit: Too lazy to edit the Helena Lovejoy picture.

 

[longdi]

Maybe 5-6% or less (likely less), Sony ain't dumb and to save this little space all things considered the performance impact must be really minimal.
They do not sell theoretical specs to devs, but platforms: devs are not toddlers influenced by shiny keys with fancy labels... they can smell bullshit quite well. Devs seems to be very happy with PS5 too.

Also, system architecture includes the software and tools picture too anyways: you are responsible for everything ultimately (and to rely on the best subject area matter experts for each discipline)... performance, price, power consumption, manufacturing costs, dev kits and ease/efficiency of dev tooling, OS, etc...

i always thought that avx is the next big thing. at least if you run benchmark on cpuz, you get big improvement in scores as you go along the avx modes.

cpuz is a small portable .exe and fast to bench for an indicator feel.

sony has no choice but to be happy if they chose to lose full avx for other parts, but it don't mean the loss won't hurts.

 

[Concern]

So much concern .... it's like some people said ps5 was rdna 1 and it bounced to the xsx too, but surprisingly you missed or don't care when people call ps5 rdna 1 or 1.5.

Surprisingly none of you can answer why this thread was turned into "but xsx is rdna1" lol.

Talk about "moving goalposts"

 

[Leyasu]

Maybe 5-6% or less (likely less), Sony ain't dumb and to save this little space all things considered the performance impact must be really minimal.
They do not sell theoretical specs to devs, but platforms: devs are not toddlers influenced by shiny keys with fancy labels... they can smell bullshit quite well. Devs seems to be very happy with PS5 too.

Also, system architecture includes the software and tools picture too anyways: you are responsible for everything ultimately (and to rely on the best subject area matter experts for each discipline)... performance, price, power consumption, manufacturing costs, dev kits and ease/efficiency of dev tooling, OS, etc...

Yeah the praise for the ps5 has been consistent. But if there were problems with the XsX like some have been trying to claim, then I would have thought that an insider or a dev anonymously or both would have spilt the beans by now.

 

[Elog]

i always thought that avx is the next big thing. at least if you run benchmark on cpuz, you get big improvement in scores as you go along the avx modes.

cpuz is a small portable .exe and fast to bench for an indicator feel.

sony has no choice but to be happy if they chose to lose full avx for other parts, but it don't mean the loss won't hurts.

I have not run the math but AVX makes your power and thermal values to go through the roof. The question is if in an environment such as the console with clear power and thermal limits there is a major benefit or not from the AVX instruction set? Is your CPU primarily bound by power and thermal limitations? Then it does not add much.

On the PC where you can play with both the thermal solution and the power supply the situation is very different. I can see how AVX adds very little in a console environment actually.

 

[azertydu91]

Surprisingly none of you can answer why this thread was turned into "but xsx is rdna1" lol.

Talk about "moving goalposts"

Just read the thread or do you always count on someone to summarize threads for you?
You know you are always "concerned" when threads are mentionning microsoft and never playstation weird right ?
BTW you thought Sony had things to hide and I'm the one moving the goalpost?
So I will summarize since you can absolutely criticize a thread on its content but apparently can't bother to read it (not surprising it is a playstation thread why would you read it, just ctrl+F xbox).
The die shot seemed close to RDNa 1 architecture which it does, since we don't have gpu's to compare it from we used the XSX one which is surprisingly close hence" if some people call the ps5 RDNA 1 which is what happenned in this thread then XSX is also RDNa1.
Then some argued that both architecture were quite close and nearly indistinguishable between eachother in a picture, then we compared IPC gain in which Sony boast higher gains that MS, some people argued it add water to the RDNA1 theory to which I objected in multiple posts.

Now maybe you can just shut up now that someone made all the work so you don't have to thinjk and just let your bias talk with Sony concern and how it is sony gaf here ....
It is so much sony gaf that on the main page there's threads about:
-how MS can't lose
-gamepass is the best thing in the world
-the ps5 doesn't have a killer app
-someone saying there's something wrong with the dualsense battery

Do you feel that anti MS forum there? Poor guy please continue to complain about every thread now while barely reading them or understanding them.

 

[MonarchJT]

[/QUOTE]
Both

Thanks a lot for the details, this makes sense performance-wise now.

what exactly make perfect sense performance wise ?

 

[Concern]

Just read the thread or do you always count on someone to summarize threads for you?
You know you are always "concerned" when threads are mentionning microsoft and never playstation weird right ?
BTW you thought Sony had things to hide and I'm the one moving the goalpost?
So I will summarize since you can absolutely criticize a thread on its content but apparently can't bother to read it (not surprising it is a playstation thread why would you read it, just ctrl+F xbox).
The die shot seemed close to RDNa 1 architecture which it does, since we don't have gpu's to compare it from we used the XSX one which is surprisingly close hence" if some people call the ps5 RDNA 1 which is what happenned in this thread then XSX is also RDNa1.
Then some argued that both architecture were quite close and nearly indistinguishable between eachother in a picture, then we compared IPC gain in which Sony boast higher gains that MS, some people argued it add water to the RDNA1 theory to which I objected in multiple posts.

Now maybe you can just shut up now that someone made all the work so you don't have to thinjk and just let your bias talk with Sony concern and how it is sony gaf here ....
It is so much sony gaf that on the main page there's threads about:
-how MS can't lose
-gamepass is the best thing in the world
-the ps5 doesn't have a killer app
-someone saying there's something wrong with the dualsense battery

Do you feel that anti MS forum there? Poor guy please continue to complain about every thread now while barely reading them or understanding them.

No need to read much more than the last page of the same spec thread trolls derailing another thread yet again.

Keep up the cute condescending insults. They push your fanboy narrative any further lol.

 

[MonarchJT]

Don't blame us why Xbox engineers said it has 25% performance per clock gain.

To asking ourselves why "low powered" PS5 outperforming XSX in some games. I know, it is sad for Xbox fans.

man is the ps5 that is rumored lacking rdna2 features not the xsx and we can't compare the gain and if is because of the IC (we don't know for sure about ps5) this % at this point just for academic chatter..when we know that one ceil at 10 and the other at 12 tf it's and one have 36 and the other 52 cu's and especially we know every single IP that there's inside the xsx soc ...stop spinning

 

[LisaMariaMartin]

Just saying, not insinuating, that both consoles have a mix of features and characteristics from RDNA1,2, and some bits not in either.
You are the one that called the AMD leaker a bullshitter and is trying their best not to talk about that. Locuza video below did not really crap on that but called the two similar actually.

(then again, lack of infinity cache, which is part of all RDNA2 based GPU's IIRC, could explain some of it too).

Locuza video on XSX (you are using his analysis for the FPU bit too):

You live in a fantasy world

 

[Lysandros]

Continuing the FPU customization.

I don't know why Locuza uses the word "downgrade" for it, this kind of tweaking (removing some redundant parts) is common in console space, it's more than likely to be the same or similar for XSX's CPU. Also, i think he was a bit too quick to claim half width (erroneously it seems) for the FPU.

 

[azertydu91]

No need to read much more than the last page of the same spec thread trolls derailing another thread yet again.

Keep up the cute condescending insults. They push your fanboy narrative any further lol.

Great so you don't even read posts now, that explains a lot about you.
ITT I was defending xsx being RDNA2 to push my fanboyism ?Great logic there, really impressive.
And great way to not answer anything I said, by the way maybe some poeple answered your question but you didn't bother to read them?Exactly like you don't bother to read anything apparently.

And condescending insults ?Like telling you to shut up now that someone had answered you question and your "concern" ?
It must be a hard life for you being this sensible even your answer is way off what I replied to you, are you contributing to anything here beside complaining?
And are you really incapable to understand why the ps5 die shot is compared to the xbox die shot aka the only other console using RDNA2?
Is it really that hard to understand ?
Let me help you if we had the die shot of the ps5 first then the Xbox's one the Xbox thread would've been the same as this one ....Well except that you wouldn't complain about it.

 

[MonarchJT]

I don't know why Locuza uses the word "downgrade" for it, this kind of tweaking (removing some redundant parts) is common in console space, it's more than likely to be the same or similar for XSX's CPU. Also, i think he was a bit too quick to claim half width (erroneously it seems) for the FPU.

because he added "i wouldn't call it redundant"

 

[Concern]

Great so you don't even read posts now, that explains a lot about you.
ITT I was defending xsx being RDNA2 to push my fanboyism ?Great logic there, really impressive.
And great way to not answer anything I said, by the way maybe some poeple answered your question but you didn't bother to read them?Exactly like you don't bother to read anything apparently.

And condescending insults ?Like telling you to shut up now that someone had answered you question and your "concern" ?
It must be a hard life for you being this sensible even your answer is way off what I replied to you, are you contributing to anything here beside complaining?
And are you really incapable to understand why the ps5 die shot is compared to the xbox die shot aka the only other console using RDNA2?
Is it really that hard to understand ?
Let me help you if we had the die shot of the ps5 first then the Xbox's one the Xbox thread would've been the same as this one ....Well except that you wouldn't complain about it.

No need to read fanboys derailing another thread slinging insults around. Take your antagonistic insults back to the spec thread. Nobody really cares but the same people who spend spreading the same bs in the spec thread.

The projecting is quite hilarious. Ps5 die shot turned into xsx is rdna1. There were already plenty discussions and threads on the latter. People have been waiting for a Ps5 die shot and it brought the trolls out to derail and make it about Xbox again lol.

 

[Elog]

PS5 SOC

~ 300 mm^2 die area
~ 1.78 ratio rectangular die
~ 13 mm wide x ~ 23.25 mm long

~ 210 mm^2 for GPU + RAM bus
~ 40 mm^2 for CPU
~ 50 mm^2 for I/O + misc


XSX SOC

360 mm^2 die area
~ 1.5 ratio rectangular die
~ 15.5 mm wide x ~ 23.25 mm long

~ 280 mm^2 for GPU + RAM bus
~ 40 mm^2 for CPU
~ 40 mm^2 for I/O + misc

When I did this I separated out the GPU as two components: CUs (incl. RT) and other. There is a big difference in 'other' between the two. I also split out the RAM bus.

 

[Elog]

Just adding this - there are papers on it but this is very telling - AVX run power and thermals through the roof:

After having slept on it, AVX might actually be dead weight in a power and thermally limited environment such as a console. Might be the smart thing to do to just shred it to allow mm2 for other functionalities.

 

[Hosam6xavi]

Good to know this kind of sony pony garbage is perfectly acceptable around here these days.

Welcome to neogaf

 

[azertydu91]

No need to read fanboys derailing another thread slinging insults around. Take your antagonistic insults back to the spec thread. Nobody really cares but the same people who spend spreading the same bs in the spec thread.

The projecting is quite hilarious. Ps5 die shot turned into xsx is rdna1. There were already plenty discussions and threads on the latter. People have been waiting for a Ps5 die shot and it brought the trolls out to derail and make it about Xbox again lol.

Do you have a medical condition that prevent you from being able to read?
I don't think so.
Alright you just don't read and consider anybody disagreeing you as insulting.
Thank god you username isnot discern because you're way off there.

Maybe try to read a least a little of the thread you are shitposting in?And what's more condescending, participating in a thread on complaining about it without reading it?

You just deserve to be ignored now and even that might be too much attention for you.

 

[prinz_valium]

I don't know why Locuza uses the word "downgrade" for it, this kind of tweaking (removing some redundant parts) is common in console space, it's more than likely to be the same or similar for XSX's CPU. Also, i think he was a bit too quick to claim half width (erroneously it seems) for the FPU.

No, the XSX has a bigger FPU on the Zen 2 Clusters. That's not cut down. Looks 100% the as regular desktop Zen 2.

 

[Concern]

Do you have a medical condition that prevent you from being able to read?
I don't think so.
Alright you just don't read and consider anybody disagreeing you as insulting.
Thank god you username isnot discern because you're way off there.

Maybe try to read a least a little of the thread you are shitposting in?And what's more condescending, participating in a thread on complaining about it without reading it?

You just deserve to be ignored now and even that might be too much attention for you.

Trying to insinuate "concern trolling" , things like stupid, shut up, leave the forum and etc are being antagonistic.

Anyway, neither of you could answer why you derailed the thread to be about the xsx die which we saw almost a year ago. Nice job deflecting

 

[ToTTenTranz]

Is anyone able to identify the I/O's ESRAM?
Cerny claimed there would be a "generous amount" of it, even though the density could be substantially higher than the L3 and similar to Navi 21's Infinity Cache.
Regardless, it should be noticeable.

I don't know why Locuza uses the word "downgrade" for it, this kind of tweaking (removing some redundant parts) is common in console space, it's more than likely to be the same or similar for XSX's CPU. Also, i think he was a bit too quick to claim half width (erroneously it seems) for the FPU.

From what I understand, the FPU unit consists of a FMAC unit (for multiplies), a FADD unit (for sums) and caches (registers, buffers, etc.).
Sony took out the FADD unit because the FMAC unit can do sums, but from what I gather the result is at a lower precision. The difference might be negligible for gaming, but it might make it unsuitable for the PC and server markets.
Microsoft is putting the SeriesX's SoC on Azure servers, which is why they wouldn't take it off.

 

[Lysandros]

PS5 SOC

~ 300 mm^2 die area
~ 1.78 ratio rectangular die
~ 13 mm wide x ~ 23.25 mm long

~ 210 mm^2 for GPU + RAM bus
~ 40 mm^2 for CPU
~ 50 mm^2 for I/O + misc


XSX SOC

360 mm^2 die area
~ 1.5 ratio rectangular die
~ 15.5 mm wide x ~ 23.25 mm long

~ 280 mm^2 for GPU + RAM bus
~ 40 mm^2 for CPU
~ 40 mm^2 for I/O + misc

Isn't 10 mm2 too small of a difference for the I/O knowing all the extra coprocessors and SRAM that it has? PS5's GPU is confirmed to be 308 mm2 as far as i know, maybe a fair part of this 8 mm2 can be added to the I/O size?

 

[azertydu91]

Trying to insinuate "concern trolling" , things like stupid, shut up, leave the forum and etc are being antagonistic.

Anyway, neither of you could answer why you derailed the thread to be about the xsx die which we saw almost a year ago. Nice job deflecting

I nerver told you to leave the forum just that you weren't contributing to it,I'm the one deflecting?Keep telling yourself that, have a great day and many more concerns.