assurdum
Banned
I don't know, I'm not in your mind. It's you who tried to argue such game runs at higher resolution because haven't raytracing when it's blatantly wrong. I just point out that to you.
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DF: The Touryst PS5 - The First 8K 60fps Console Game
- Thread starter Bullet Club
- Start date
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I didnt argue anything, Raytracing has a performance cost and i never knew it was added to the ps5 version. Relax.
Mr Moose
Member
Hopefully someone who does can confirm.
This game is very much a native Series console app (GDK, Scarlett, XboxGen9).
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Huh?
assurdum
Banned
I'm perfectly relaxed though even in this post you practically admit to have argued exactly that; but ok.
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Mr Moose
Member
They fixed RT on the 8th, though I can't confirm the res.
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
No clue, I'm just going by what others said. If it says optimized for xsx it's native. I've no clue though as I don't have one.
I also never said it wasn't native. Just that native doesn't really mean much.
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Yeah I know. The prior conversation established that the ps5 version had higher res, i was just unaware Raytracing had been added.
But thanks for trying to help.
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assurdum
Banned
Unfortunately they haven't fixed a shit after the raytracing update and I suspect they have already abandoned completely the game (doubt it has sold well). A pity because I beg for a patch for the bad frame pacing (though they never fixed it on XSX too after they promised it to DF if I'm not wrong). It's nothing special but for obscure reasons I like to replay it but stutters are atrocious when the camera moving.
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Zathalus
Member
I try to point out what you said was factually incorrect, while providing some handy sources to prove I am not making stuff up and for my efforts I get called Microsoft PR. It's as if the evidence personally offended you. Did you even bother reading anything I linked?
Anyway, it's good to know Nvidia, AMD, and Microsoft are all idiots and liars. Oh better throw in the Khronos Group and Apple as well. Some dude on a internet forum know better then them. None of these companies appear to know what low-level APIs are!
By the way, not that you are going to believe me, but no games on PS4/PS5 are "dedicated hardware coding". These games are not made in assembly or machine code. All low-level APIs use some form of abstraction, just to ease development and have some standard adherence.
assurdum
Banned
Epic claimed ps5 has a low level API uses not available on pc yet, proved by the raytracing level in Nsomniac games...not me. And again you can't really compare the abstraction in dedicated hardware coding to the abstraction for multiplat hardware development.
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Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
This. There will be some games that are more tailored to the PS5's design and some games that are more tailored towards the Xbox Series X design
These consoles are too close
Zathalus
Member
Yes, the PS5 has low-level API that PC does not have, for its custom storage and I/O solution. Microsoft has something similar called DirectStorage. But I have no real idea how they compare and my point was only about Graphic APIs.
Also, I fully agree with you that a dedicated API should be more efficient then a multiplatform one, but the DX12 on the Series consoles is not simply the PC version of DX12, they have significant changes to improve efficiency.
Lastly, I actually agree with the idea that the PS5 API is more efficient then the Xbox version of DX12. My point was that both use low-level APIs and the difference between them would likely be small. Playstation has been working with its low-level API for quite a while longer then Microsoft has.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
8K is really a waste though, we'd have much better looking games all around if studios aimed for 1440P
MasterCornholio
Member
True but I think a high resolution is fine for more simple games like Cuphead for example.
I believe targeting a lower resolution and combining it with a good reconstruction technique is the way to go in my opinion. There's plenty of examples of games with great reconstruction techniques. Like Shadow of the Tomb Raider or Ratchet and Clank for example.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Yup. I'm sure PS5 is using an updated version of GNM as their low level API they might've renamed it too
ethomaz
Banned
Like the new tools will fix the lower clock and split memory setup lol
alabtrosMyster
Member
But that kind of defeats your original argument? no?
alabtrosMyster
Member
Shhhh anything below 8k now is for the plebs. I mean common 6K! is this the commodore 64 or the Atari 2600? What year is this?
In the thread we went through the technical details, possible reasons, etc. at this point we only "argue" with low level xbox fans who can't accept it.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
We dont know if thats the reason why its not 8k on xsx.
ethomaz
Banned
We know the dev said lol
He clearly said that they could push 8k on PS5 due the higher clocks and better memory setup.
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alabtrosMyster
Member
OK we have two options for those arguing that the dev was too lazy to release the 8k version on xbox:
1 - The machine could not handle this game at 8k/60fps no matter what
2 - The dev could not do it at this time because the SDK does not allow for proper optimization (or it's more complex for reason x, so they skipped it)
Either way, MS has to deliver... If this is a hardware "issue" (it hardly matter, but we all are here because we care for these things on one level or another)... So MS could eventually upgrade their tools to make 8k games more attainable, but they can't fix hardware limitations, which honestly are not really something they should put too much efforts on, because at 8k a 10tf vs a 12tf GPU is not that relevant. These consoles thrive at around 1440p, this seems to be the region where they have their "sweet spot" where you can get a high enough frame rate and very nice visual fidelity for AAA type games.
I'm fairly sure that if you have a 6" deep living room with an 85" 8K TV you would never be able to tell the difference between 6k and 8k at "sitting distance", in your very small living room.
1 - The machine could not handle this game at 8k/60fps no matter what
2 - The dev could not do it at this time because the SDK does not allow for proper optimization (or it's more complex for reason x, so they skipped it)
Either way, MS has to deliver... If this is a hardware "issue" (it hardly matter, but we all are here because we care for these things on one level or another)... So MS could eventually upgrade their tools to make 8k games more attainable, but they can't fix hardware limitations, which honestly are not really something they should put too much efforts on, because at 8k a 10tf vs a 12tf GPU is not that relevant. These consoles thrive at around 1440p, this seems to be the region where they have their "sweet spot" where you can get a high enough frame rate and very nice visual fidelity for AAA type games.
I'm fairly sure that if you have a 6" deep living room with an 85" 8K TV you would never be able to tell the difference between 6k and 8k at "sitting distance", in your very small living room.
MasterCornholio
Member
This is what I saw in the article.
Dream-Knife
Banned
So PS5 pro and Xbox x series X^2 will target 8k as their marketing point?
Funny enough my great aunt bought an 8k TV because it was "better" last week. Everything she watches is 1080p or 720p.
Funny enough my great aunt bought an 8k TV because it was "better" last week. Everything she watches is 1080p or 720p.
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MasterCornholio
Member
Funny thing is that 8K is marketed for both systems. Not extensively of course.
StateofMajora
Banned
Maybe just higher clocked memory on a 256 bit bus. If heat would allow it.
Just think that Sony has the better memory set up overall, as the split thing can give devs headache. MS did a great job with xbox 360 memory set up though.
VargasPaPuM
Member
you guys need to be more consistent
What happened to The Falconer being 8K on XSX
www.neogaf.com
The Falconer To Run At 4k/60 or 1800p/120 on XSX (1800p/60 or 1080p/120 XSS)
I'm not sure if the developer of The Falconeer interview has been posted already but this is amazing news. Microsoft touted 8k but I didn't expect to see any games take advantage of this beside very simple games. An open world game at 8k really shows the power of the gpu...
MasterCornholio
Member
What happened to The Falconer being 8K on XSX
The Falconer To Run At 4k/60 or 1800p/120 on XSX (1800p/60 or 1080p/120 XSS)
I'm not sure if the developer of The Falconeer interview has been posted already but this is amazing news. Microsoft touted 8k but I didn't expect to see any games take advantage of this beside very simple games. An open world game at 8k really shows the power of the gpu...
So did the devs say why they backtracked on 6K/8K?
Mr Moose
Member
I think they were talking in general rather than about the Series X, I could be wrong though because my memory is dog shit.
Edit:
Q: In addition to benefiting from the power and performance of Xbox Series X for quicker load times etc. what Xbox Series X features were you most excited to explore leveraging in the development of The Falconeer?
A: I think the answer is twofold. In my opinion I believe 60fps should be a foundational feature of the next generation. As a maker I don't accept that 30fps is sufficient for action games with high-intensity gameplay, like you experience during dogfights in The Falconeer. Achieving 60fps on previous generations required compromises and sacrifices you won't have to make next generation – sacrifices to AI, to visuals, to background simulation, to the scale of your open world, to levels of detail… 60fps is a must, and a huge benefit to players.
The other one is 4K… but also 6K and 8K! It's funny, because when you look at a television, you can always tell you're looking at a TV, because even on high-quality screens you can see pixels and jagged lines and stuff. But if I run a game at 6K or 8K I can pause the game and it's like having a piece of art in your living room. It's so crisp! I think that's wonderful, and I think players will be blown away by the clarity and crispness of games at higher and higher resolutions.
Q: Why did you choose to focus on 4K and 60fps for The Falconeer?
A: In The Falconeer I don't use any textures because it makes the art very clean. There's no grittiness or artifacts or blood-spatter on the screen. You can see the edges of the geometry and it has a very abstract look. I do it not because it's simple but because it's very clean and readable, and you can see how things are hand-crafted.
But that means there's a lot of sharp lines and gradients, and that means there's a lot of edges! The reason we try to avoid sharp edges in art design for games is because we used to play at 640p or 320p and hard edges would look jaggy and ugly, but now we're up to 4K and beyond the edges become beautiful again! Artists and sculptors and painters have known for centuries that edges are beautiful things but as game developers we've been hating on them! But now the higher your resolution, the prettier the edges become, and the whole game looks like an illustration.
They never said it was 8k.
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MasterCornholio
Member
A little bit odd that it was in the Xbox Wire article. I can understand why some may have interpreted it to mean something else.
Mr Moose
Member
I updated my reply but I'll post it again:
Q: In addition to benefiting from the power and performance of Xbox Series X for quicker load times etc. what Xbox Series X features were you most excited to explore leveraging in the development of The Falconeer?
A: I think the answer is twofold. In my opinion I believe 60fps should be a foundational feature of the next generation. As a maker I don't accept that 30fps is sufficient for action games with high-intensity gameplay, like you experience during dogfights in The Falconeer. Achieving 60fps on previous generations required compromises and sacrifices you won't have to make next generation – sacrifices to AI, to visuals, to background simulation, to the scale of your open world, to levels of detail… 60fps is a must, and a huge benefit to players.
The other one is 4K… but also 6K and 8K! It's funny, because when you look at a television, you can always tell you're looking at a TV, because even on high-quality screens you can see pixels and jagged lines and stuff. But if I run a game at 6K or 8K I can pause the game and it's like having a piece of art in your living room. It's so crisp! I think that's wonderful, and I think players will be blown away by the clarity and crispness of games at higher and higher resolutions.
Q: Why did you choose to focus on 4K and 60fps for The Falconeer?
A: In The Falconeer I don't use any textures because it makes the art very clean. There's no grittiness or artifacts or blood-spatter on the screen. You can see the edges of the geometry and it has a very abstract look. I do it not because it's simple but because it's very clean and readable, and you can see how things are hand-crafted.
But that means there's a lot of sharp lines and gradients, and that means there's a lot of edges! The reason we try to avoid sharp edges in art design for games is because we used to play at 640p or 320p and hard edges would look jaggy and ugly, but now we're up to 4K and beyond the edges become beautiful again! Artists and sculptors and painters have known for centuries that edges are beautiful things but as game developers we've been hating on them! But now the higher your resolution, the prettier the edges become, and the whole game looks like an illustration.
They never said it was 8k.
Inside Xbox Series X Optimized: The Falconeer - Xbox Wire
When it launches on November 10, Xbox Series X will be the most powerful console the world has ever seen. One of the biggest benefits of all that power is giving developers the ability to make games that are Xbox Series X Optimized. This means that they’ve taken full advantage of the unique...
news.xbox.com
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MasterCornholio
Member
I updated my reply but I'll post it again:
Q: In addition to benefiting from the power and performance of Xbox Series X for quicker load times etc. what Xbox Series X features were you most excited to explore leveraging in the development of The Falconeer?
A: I think the answer is twofold. In my opinion I believe 60fps should be a foundational feature of the next generation. As a maker I don't accept that 30fps is sufficient for action games with high-intensity gameplay, like you experience during dogfights in The Falconeer. Achieving 60fps on previous generations required compromises and sacrifices you won't have to make next generation – sacrifices to AI, to visuals, to background simulation, to the scale of your open world, to levels of detail… 60fps is a must, and a huge benefit to players.
The other one is 4K… but also 6K and 8K! It's funny, because when you look at a television, you can always tell you're looking at a TV, because even on high-quality screens you can see pixels and jagged lines and stuff. But if I run a game at 6K or 8K I can pause the game and it's like having a piece of art in your living room. It's so crisp! I think that's wonderful, and I think players will be blown away by the clarity and crispness of games at higher and higher resolutions.
Q: Why did you choose to focus on 4K and 60fps for The Falconeer?
A: In The Falconeer I don't use any textures because it makes the art very clean. There's no grittiness or artifacts or blood-spatter on the screen. You can see the edges of the geometry and it has a very abstract look. I do it not because it's simple but because it's very clean and readable, and you can see how things are hand-crafted.
But that means there's a lot of sharp lines and gradients, and that means there's a lot of edges! The reason we try to avoid sharp edges in art design for games is because we used to play at 640p or 320p and hard edges would look jaggy and ugly, but now we're up to 4K and beyond the edges become beautiful again! Artists and sculptors and painters have known for centuries that edges are beautiful things but as game developers we've been hating on them! But now the higher your resolution, the prettier the edges become, and the whole game looks like an illustration.
They never said it was 8k.
Inside Xbox Series X Optimized: The Falconeer - Xbox Wire
When it launches on November 10, Xbox Series X will be the most powerful console the world has ever seen. One of the biggest benefits of all that power is giving developers the ability to make games that are Xbox Series X Optimized. This means that they’ve taken full advantage of the unique...
I can see that. But they did mention the console and it was from an Xbox Wire article. I can see why people thought they were talking about the Series X.
Edit: Also saw the bit about the television.
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megreotsugua
Banned
Mark Cerny redeemed.
Mr Moose
Member
Don't worry, it downsamples to 4k.
I hope you said the same thing when it was announced for Series X at 6k, same with Ori...
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Don't worry, it downsamples to 4k.
I hope you said the same thing when it was announced for Series X at 6k, same with Ori...
I did.
Mr Moose
Member
Really? Well, glad you are consistent.
Honestly though, the biggest difference between the PS5 and Series X version to me is the shadows, sure the pixel count difference is kinda big but it doesn't look that much better. I only watched the video though, it might be different if I seen pics of it side by side.
No matter how a game look the consoles will still need the pixel fillrate & bandwidth to reach 8k 60 fps.
Later Alligator
Member
I played this on switch and thought it was great. If it's under 20 bucks you should check it out
Mr Moose
Member
And it runs really well on both PS5 and Series X, it should really be commended.
We don't often see games that are locked fps, no dips especially at such a high resolution.
You sure? Because I only seen you trying to put to rest the idea of Series S holding back Series X
(Which is correct by the way)
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THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Sure it does....but when a game is using 10% of a systems power its not much of a test.....
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
S not holding back doesn't mean I didn't see much value or benefit to a 6k version of the touryst.
You clearly don't understand , simple graphics can push a system just as hard as really detailed graphics , some games hit the shader limits & some hit the pixel fillrate limits & so on .
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Why wouldn't you just scale a super low resolution source like the ones used in this game?
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