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[freefornow]

It's established with the sequel no longer coming to other plaforms

PC?

 

[Three]

It's not arbitrary, you can't really classify something with only 1 product out as a franchise.

It's an established IP on multiple platforms in any case and has a sequel.

They (Phil and co) have said multiple times in reference to big games like Starfield and TES VI tha they will be available on any platform Game Pass is on. Which already means its not restricted to Xbox alone.

Meaning just PC/xbox then. They weren't restricted to xbox before either.

 

[Three]

PC?

What about PC? Hellblade 1 was on PC/Xbox/Switch/PS. Hellblade 2 is on xbox/pc. That by no definition is "more platforms".

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Good. That means the industry is robust enough for MS to make any acquisitions they want. It also means Game pass will be getting tons of new games.

Isn't that obvious.

 

[DarkMage619]

What about PC? Hellblade 1 was on PC/Xbox/Switch/PS. Hellblade 2 is on xbox/pc. That by no definition is "more platforms".

You forgot cloud streaming. I'd wager there are more cloud compatible devices than Switch or PlayStation. Tossing in Switch is pretty funny though because nothing I've seen of Hellblade 2 gives any credence to it even running on that system.

 

[Three]

You forgot cloud streaming. I'd wager there are more cloud compatible devices than Switch or PlayStation. Tossing in Switch is pretty funny though because nothing I've seen of Hellblade 2 gives any credence to it even running on that system.

I didn't. it's as if that was available before too! Until MS pulled it from other competing streaming platforms that is:



This "but you can stream now, more platforms" is a convenient excuse.

 

[DarkMage619]

I didn't. it's as if that was available before too! Until MS pulled it from other competing streaming platforms that is:



This "but you can stream now, more platforms" is a convenient excuse.

Looks like games leave GeForce Now all the time. Or are you blaming MS for Take 2 and Warner Brothers pulling their titles? Reality isn't an excuse to anything. As adamsapple stated it never made sense for MS's games to be expected on other platforms. Phil said Bethesda games would be case by case basis and promised CoD on PS5 for years to come. It could be worse seeing how MS owes nothing to platforms they don't own.

 

[adamsapple]

Meaning just PC/xbox then. They weren't restricted to xbox before either.

Ok.

I'm having some difficulty grasping why it's being held to such a high degree of scrutiny that their games need to be on other consoles. We don't expect that from first parties on other platforms.

They've clearly said if a platform has game pass, their games will go there for sure.

Looks like games leave GeForce Now all the time. Or are you blaming MS for Take 2 and Warner Brothers pulling their titles? Reality isn't an excuse to anything. As adamsapple stated it never made sense for MS's games to be expected on other platforms. Phil said Bethesda games would be case by case basis and promised CoD on PS5 for years to come. It could be worse seeing how MS owes nothing to platforms they don't own.

While we're talking about pulling content specifically from competing platform browsers.

 

[Three]

Looks like games leave GeForce Now all the time. Or are you blaming MS for Take 2 and Warner Brothers pulling their titles? Reality isn't an excuse to anything. As adamsapple stated it never made sense for MS's games to be expected on other platforms. Phil said Bethesda games would be case by case basis and promised CoD on PS5 for years to come. It could be worse seeing how MS owes nothing to platforms they don't own.

Things get removed from Geforce Now for the same reason they get removed from other platforms. Business interests.

Funny the article you link mentions Xbox Game Studios removing games from GFN in the title. Nobody is expecting games on other platforms except weirdly the xbox fans who are suggesting that games/IPs aren't being removed from other platforms with these purchases, it's not happening according to them just so they can paint MS as some kind of altruistic company somehow giving you more platforms for those IPs, not less. In a thread where MS is under regulatory scrutiny.

Your idea that games always get removed from GFN is a deflection. Your argument was that there is now streaming being added which surpasses Switch and PS being removed when there was obviously already streaming before for those games until MS business interests removed them. i.e removing them so you use MS services/products.

 

[Three]

Ok.

I'm having some difficulty grasping why it's being held to such a high degree of scrutiny that their games need to be on other consoles. We don't expect that from first parties on other platforms.

They've clearly said if a platform has game pass, their games will go there for sure.

Nobody is saying that they should release anywhere. Somebody was pretending MS is holier than thou and doing us all a favour with these purchases though. That they haven't removed anything and that we are somehow getting more platforms. They clearly have removed them from competing platforms.

 

[pasterpl]

My comment wasn't talking about them. Even so. Combining Zenimax + Activision + Blizzard is not going to be enough.

That's why they said that they are not done with acquisitions. Question is; who is next?

 

[twilo99]

In order for the Activision stock price to hit the levels its supposed to hit in a bear market this deal can't go through, otherwise it would outperform the whole market lol

 

[pasterpl]

I knew some new arbitrary excuse would be made for Hellblade too. It's established with the sequel no longer coming to other plaforms.

The thing is, you haven't even seen games from any franchises getting announced post acquisition. The likes of Doom or Wolfenstien but you can bet your bottom dollar what's going to happen. ones that have been announced Hellblade 2, Elder Scrolls 6, and their new IPs have been confirmed to be removed. To arbitrarily suggest they don't count because of reasons is just illogical.

Other platforms it is not only playstation mate. We know for a fact that all games will continue to release on pc, some might get ported to switch more often than historically. With gamepass you will be able to play these everywhere and almost any platform. What we know is that these games will go to more platforms than ever before minus playstation. Playstation is big chunk of console market but tiny part of overall gaming market.

 

[Kagey K]

In order for the Activision stock price to hit the levels its supposed to hit in a bear market this deal can't go through, otherwise it would outperform the whole market lol

Hence why it's smart to be buying that particular stock right now. No matter how bad the rest performs this can balance or outweigh it.

It's value is going to go up quickly once another (especially US) firm passes it.

I had hoped this deal would close before the end of this year, but it looks like if something doesn't change quickly I'll end the year with a bit less money than when I started it.

(Granted I did buy a Lexus and did a bunch of renos) but I had hoped to at least be at break even still.

 

[Ozriel]

Nobody is saying that they should release anywhere. Somebody was pretending MS is holier than thou and doing us all a favour with these purchases though. That they haven't removed anything and that we are somehow getting more platforms. They clearly have removed them from competing platforms.

Your GFN example isn't apt, though. With GFN, the web browser is the platform. And that same web browser on the same device can stream XCloud.

And unarguably, with xCloud , they'd be targeting a potentially bigger pool of customers than before.

 

[Kagey K]

Good. That means the industry is robust enough for MS to make any acquisitions they want. It also means Game pass will be getting tons of new games.

I love how some ppl cry monopoly in one breath and say Xbox can't compete in the other.

They constantly talk about Xbox in last place, but it's unfair for them to buy stuff to try to change thier position.

 

[Three]

Your GFN example isn't apt, though. With GFN, the web browser is the platform. And that same web browser on the same device can stream XCloud.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. The web browser isn't the platform. You know there are native GFN apps as well as browser support right?
Native apps for Windows, MacOS, Android, Android TV, Smart TVs. More native app support than xCloud.

I didn't say a web browser can't run xcloud. Somebody was saying I forgot streaming Hellblade as if that opens it up to more platforms now with Hellblade 2 when it doesn't. Hellblade 1 was streamable before with GFN until it was removed from it for MS business interests.

 

[Kagey K]

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. The web browser isn't the platform. You know there are native GFN apps as well as browser support right?
Native apps for Windows, MacOS, Android, Android TV, Smart TVs. More native app support than xCloud.

I didn't say a web browser can't run xcloud. Somebody was saying I forgot streaming Hellblade as if that opens it up to more platforms now with Hellblade 2 when it doesn't.

How many platforms did Hellblade launch on again?

Probably not the best example when arguing against exclusivity.

 

[Three]

What we know is that these games will go to more platforms than ever before minus playstation.

No they won't. They would go to MS platforms. Somebody was suggesting Hellblade 2 wasn't being removed from other platforms because of PC but it was already on PC.

How many platforms did Hellblade launch on again?

Probably not the best example when arguing against exclusivity.

Read a few posts back maybe.

 

[Kagey K]

No they won't. They would go to MS platforms. Somebody was suggesting Hellblade 2 wasn't being removed from other platforms because of PC but it was already on PC.

Read a few posts back maybe.

I did but I tend to skim yours. Care to share the post #

 

[Three]

I did but I tend to skim yours. Care to share the post #

#1503
It was a pretty short post so I'm not sure how you skimmed it without getting the gist of it:

What about PC? Hellblade 1 was on PC/Xbox/Switch/PS. Hellblade 2 is on xbox/pc. That by no definition is "more platforms".

Now i can include streaming because people are hung up on that deflection

Hellblade 1
GFN/xCloud/PC/Xbox/Switch/PS

Hellblade 2
xCloud/PC/Xbox

This isn't more, it's less.

 

[Kagey K]

#1503
It was a pretty short post so I'm not sure how you skimmed it without getting the gist of it:

Oh I saw that one. No it didn't launch on those platforms. It was later ported to sone of those platforms.

What platforms did it launch on?

I thought perhaps there was a different post about why it was OK that it was a Sony console exclusive for a year, but now it's not ok if exclusivity works the other way.

 

[Calverz]

I didn't. it's as if that was available before too! Until MS pulled it from other competing streaming platforms that is:



This "but you can stream now, more platforms" is a convenient excuse.

Lol all kinds of games get removed from that streaming platform all the time.

 

[Ozriel]

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. The web browser isn't the platform. You know there are native GFN apps as well as browser support right?
Native apps for Windows, MacOS, Android, Android TV, Smart TVs. More native app support than xCloud.

I didn't say a web browser can't run xcloud. Somebody was saying I forgot streaming Hellblade as if that opens it up to more platforms now with Hellblade 2 when it doesn't. Hellblade 1 was streamable before with GFN until it was removed from it for MS business interests.

To rephrase, you can stream Hellblade via XCloud on the exact same device you'd run GeForce Now. So it'd still be available to the same customers.

I'm not sure why you think native app availability matters in this discussion about access for a cloud streaming service.

 

[Three]

What platforms did it launch on?

I thought perhaps there was a different post about why it was OK that it was a Sony console exclusive for a year, but now it's not ok if exclusivity works the other way.

It launched on PC, Cloud and PS at launch and it wasn't a year but point taken. However, you would only have a valid argument if people were not trying to suggest that it being forever exclusive to Xbox, PC Cloud now is somehow more platforms.
Unless you are trying to say you think Hellblade 2 will come to PS and switch 7 months later or whatever.

 

[Kagey K]

It launched on PC, Cloud and PS at launch and it wasn't a year but point taken. However, you would only have a valid argument if people were not trying to suggest that it being completely exclusive to Xbox PC Cloud now is somehow more.
UUnless you are trying to say you think Hellblade 2 will come to PS and switch 7 months later or whatever.

I have no idea what thier future plans are, but for now it's looking like the same announcement, except with 1 platform interchanged (keep on mind back then ppl thought HB was a permanent console exclusive as well)

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/hellblade-senuas-sacrifice-official-trailer.1412523/

People assumed it was 3rd party exclusive as this was when Sony hid the timed facts.

 

[Three]

Lol all kinds of games get removed from that streaming platform all the time.

Yes just like they do from Gamepass no? because those companies are making deals in the background for services now. MS are trying to push their own services/products by removing it from GFN just as they are by removing things from PS. The point is that Hellblade 1 was available on other streaming services already so suggesting it's now on more platforms due to streaming isn't valid.

 

[Ozriel]

Yes just like they do from Gamepass no? because those companies are making deals in the background for services now. MS are trying to push their own services/products by removing it from GFN just as they are by removing things from PS. The point is that Hellblade 1 was available on other streaming services already so suggesting it's more platforms due to streaming isn't valid.

Why are you even fixated on Hellblade in this conversation? Your overarching point has been that MS is being glib with their 'more platforms' claim for the Bethesda and Activision acquisitions.

Bethesda games aren't on Geforce Now, so xCloud availability will certainly increase the potential player pool. Ditto for Activision that pulled their games off Geforce Now already.

 

[Three]

To rephrase, you can stream Hellblade via XCloud on the exact same device you'd run GeForce Now. So it'd still be available to the same customers.

Yes you can, so you agree Hellblade 2 isn't on more platforms now, yes?
Same customers though? no. MS customers only, no GFN customers anymore.

I'm not sure why you think native app availability matters in this discussion about access for a cloud streaming service.

You're the one who said its a browser platform or something. I had no idea what point you were trying to make.

 

[Kagey K]

Bethesda games aren't on Geforce Now, so xCloud availability will certainly increase the potential player pool. Ditto for Activision that pulled their games off Geforce Now already.

I find this the funniest thing about the CMA questions How will it affect cloud/subscription services?

It won't because they currently have no games on Cloud or subscription services. It's literally a zero sum game for that "supposedly" big question.

Nobody is losing customers because Activision will offer less or the same support than they currently do.

 

[Negotiator101]

Why are you even fixated on Hellblade in this conversation? Your overarching point has been that MS is being glib with their 'more platforms' claim for the Bethesda and Activision acquisitions.

Bethesda games aren't on Geforce Now, so xCloud availability will certainly increase the potential player pool. Ditto for Activision that pulled their games off Geforce Now already.

"Glib", now that's a word you don't hear often.

 

[Ozriel]

Please tell me you see the stupidity in your own claim that it is "competition" to buy a $70b publisher.

No one in the AAA-A games industry can afford to buy a company of that value - and neither can most companies in the world - so how does it equate to "games market" competition for papa MSFT to buy it for xbox to lever it to its advantage?

How did your position change so rapidly from here, earlier this year? You weren't hostile to the deal before and pitched it as a good use of money for MS, and certainly not anti-competitive. What changed?

 

[Three]

Why are you even fixated on Hellblade in this conversation? Your overarching point has been that MS is being glib with their 'more platforms' claim for the Bethesda and Activision acquisitions.

I'm not fixated on it. It came up because somebody tried to relegate to established IPs and say those aren't being removed but being made available on more platforms. It's not on more platforms however you slice it.

Bethesda games aren't on Geforce Now, so xCloud availability will certainly increase the potential player pool. Ditto for Activision that pulled their games off Geforce Now already.

Well about that:

https://www.eurogamer.net/bethesda-pulls-its-games-from-nvidias-streaming-service-geforce-now

It was. These companies are now preparing for the streaming platform wars driven by services. GFN you bought a game on steam and it was available to stream anywhere. Now publishers sell games to service platforms and in particular MS are trying to sell you subs and removing these from competing streaming and console platforms.
Point is that this isn't about increased choice, it's less, when platform holders own those IPs. It's self interest and not in any way altruistic.

 

[Kagey K]

How did your position change so rapidly from here, earlier this year? You weren't hostile to the deal before and pitched it as a good use of money for MS, and certainly not anti-competitive. What changed?

The reality started sinking in.

Knee jerk at the beginning was CoD is past its prime and Activision does nothing else.

This is the denial stage.

Once Sony got concerned the rest fell in line.

They are almost to bargaining now

 

[Kagey K]

I'm not fixated on it. It came up because somebody tried to relegate to established IPs and say those aren't being removed but being made available on more platforms. It's not on more platforms however you slice it.

Again at launch it was available on less platforms. At launch HB2 will be available on more platforms, in long long run we dont know.

But the more gamers that can play it day 1 (when hype is the highest) vs day 300 is a good thing, and if helps attract new players to your ecosystem.. even better.

 

[Three]

Again at launch it was available on less platforms. At launch HB2 will be available on more platforms, in long long run we dont know.

But the more gamers that can play it day 1 (when hype is the highest) vs day 300 is a good thing.

3>3 ?

At launch Hellblade 1 (confirmed timed too)
PS/PC/Cloud

Post launch lifetime
PS/PC/Xbox/Switch/2+ Cloud services

At launch Hellblade 2
Xbox/PC/xCloud

Post launch
??

How can anybody with a straight face say this is more with what's confirmed information.

 

[Kagey K]

3>3 ?

At launch Hellblade 1 (confirmed timed too)
PS/PC/Cloud

Post launch lifetime
PS/PC/Xbox/Switch/2+ Cloud services

At launch Hellblade 2
Xbox/PC/xCloud

Post launch
??

How can anybody with a straight face say this is more with what's confirmed information.

Tell me you think cloud gaming today is the same as 2017.

I think you are wrong, but can't find evidence. In 17 it was pc/ps4

 

[Three]

Tell me you think cloud gaming today is the same as 2017.

What a strange response. What has that got to do with anything?
What on earth do you even mean?


Geforce now was even back then better and still is better than xcloud today in terms of hardware and latency. If you mean in terms of install base, what has that got to do with "more platforms"? Console install bases grew too. Removing the PS install base is far greater than any current cloud customers added.

 

[Kagey K]

What a strange response. What has that got to do with anything?
What on earth do you even mean?


Geforce now was even back then better and still is better than xcloud today in terms of hardware and latency. If you mean it terms of install base, what has that got to do with "more platforms"? Console install bases grew too. Removing the PS install base is far greater than any current cloud customers added.

It wasn't on gforce now at launch it came later, I just can't find the date it was added to prove it.

Console install bases are actually stagnant with numbers shifting between the 3. That's not including the wii consumer or they are losing ground

 

[Three]

It wasn't on gforce now at launch it came later, I just can't find the date it was added to prove it

No, it was on Geforce Now the moment it was available on steam, launch day. You're just in search of your confirmation bias so that you can argue that it's more. And all that to clutch the straws of "at launch".

 

[DarkMage619]

Things get removed from Geforce Now for the same reason they get removed from other platforms. Business interests.

Funny the article you link mentions Xbox Game Studios removing games from GFN in the title. Nobody is expecting games on other platforms except weirdly the xbox fans who are suggesting that games/IPs aren't being removed from other platforms with these purchases, it's not happening according to them just so they can paint MS as some kind of altruistic company somehow giving you more platforms for those IPs, not less. In a thread where MS is under regulatory scrutiny.

Your idea that games always get removed from GFN is a deflection. Your argument was that there is now streaming being added which surpasses Switch and PS being removed when there was obviously already streaming before for those games until MS business interests removed them. i.e removing them so you use MS services/products.

Why would you listen to ambiguous 'Xbox fans' over the MS gaming CEO who has been pretty transparent about what is going to happen with their IP? As I've stated earlier, case by case with Bethesda titles and CoD in particular will have contracts honored and be given additional time on PlayStation after that. Beyond that I'd assume Sony will have to make a beneficial business offering to continue to receive additional titles. Nothing abnormal about that at all.

I don't know about MS and altruism but they have offered far more of their IP to competing platforms and they didn't raise prices for games and consoles on consumers. You could consider them vile and evil but I certainly appreciate them offering customers a great value.

It was no deflection on the GeForce Now. You seemed to imply that MS alone was 'pulling titles away from customers' and I was showing that's hardly true. I'd also speculate that Game pass streaming is available in more places than GeForce Now so my point that the streaming will reach more devices still remains.

 

[Kagey K]

No, it was on Geforce Now the moment it was available on steam, launch day. You're just in search of your confirmation bias so that you can argue that it's more.

Not at all, I have no problem being wrong and will admit when I am, I don't pretend to be infallible or deflect, in fact I like being proven wrong as that's the point of discussion or debate.

I take great pride in knowing more than an average person does about this industry, and give automatic respect to someone who can teach me something I didn't know.

Wow big quote fail below. Try to guess the ppl I was responding to.


I like to be informed, not just echo my own biases.

I could talk to friends about WoW without ever making a toon myself.

Send me a link to prove the day it was added. It's super easy.

Regardless, if a person wants to play a game bad enough, they will find a way. We are all a bit like crackheads that way.

 

[Calverz]

Yes just like they do from Gamepass no? because those companies are making deals in the background for services now. MS are trying to push their own services/products by removing it from GFN just as they are by removing things from PS. The point is that Hellblade 1 was available on other streaming services already so suggesting it's now on more platforms due to streaming isn't valid.

Who is suggesting that specific game is now on more platforms??

 

[phil_t98]

Yes just like they do from Gamepass no? because those companies are making deals in the background for services now. MS are trying to push their own services/products by removing it from GFN just as they are by removing things from PS. The point is that Hellblade 1 was available on other streaming services already so suggesting it's now on more platforms due to streaming isn't valid.

maybe the deal for hellblade was signed before Microsoft owned the franchise and its time on GFN had come to the end of the deal and nothing to do with Microsoft removing it

 

[Three]

Not at all, I have no problem being wrong and will admit when I am, I don't pretend to be infallible or deflect, in fact I like being proven wrong as that's the point of discussion or debate.

I like to be informed, not just echo my own biases.

Send me a link to prove the day it was added. It's super easy.

Regardless, if a person wants to play a game bad enough, they will find a way. We are all a bit like crackheads that way.

You do it. you need that win without even knowing facts so burden of proof is on you. I know because I was there at launch on the platform.

Why would you listen to ambiguous 'Xbox fans' over the MS gaming CEO who has been pretty transparent about what is going to happen with their IP? As I've stated earlier, case by case with Bethesda titles and CoD in particular will have contracts honored and be given additional time on PlayStation after that. Beyond that I'd assume Sony will have to make a beneficial business offering to continue to receive additional titles. Nothing abnormal about that at all.

Rest assured I'm not listening to them in terms of them convincing me to not see it how it truly is.

I don't know about MS and altruism but they have offered far more of their IP to competing platforms and they didn't raise prices for games and consoles on consumers. You could consider them vile and evil but I certainly appreciate them offering customers a great value.

I haven't seen many other companies buying IPs to make them "their IPs" to then make them exclusive to begin with. Certainly not the Amazon and Google mentioned in that users post either.

It was no deflection on the GeForce Now. You seemed to imply that MS alone was 'pulling titles away from customers' and I was showing that's hardly true. I'd also speculate that Game pass streaming is available in more places than GeForce Now so my point that the streaming will reach more devices still remains.

GFN is available in 30 countries, xCloud in 28. Look, I get it, people want to make it seem like this is beneficial and an altruistic good thing instead of a corporation looking out for itself by securing IP for their own platform. More platforms is not one of the benefits from an independent publisher becoming part of a platform holder though and all these tangents aren't necessary.

 

[Three]

Who is suggesting that specific game is now on more platforms??

Read the thread. Most of the known xbox fans are.

 

[phil_t98]

while the thread seems focused on COD a lot I wonder what revenue Sony make from Minecraft a year?

 

[Three]

maybe the deal for hellblade was signed before Microsoft owned the franchise and its time on GFN had come to the end of the deal and nothing to do with Microsoft removing it

There was no deal. If there was MS as the new IP owner didn't/wouldn't renew it anyway. Unless you think Microsoft game studios games like Halo, Gears etc also had a deal which they removed.
Being able to stream games was seen as complementary to buying games back then and games you bought from most PC stores like steam were streamable by a service GFN provided.

When subscription services and exclusivity deals there took off with Gamepass and Stadia and the like paying big money for content, publishers and platform holders started to remove them. Take 2 removed some of their games because it had a Stadia deal. It will be interesting to see what they do now.
MS removed all theirs because they are competing with their own subscription and they are actively removing it from competing subscription platforms. The subscription platform wars are happening right now.

 

[pasterpl]

There was no deal.

Any proof of this? You suggesting that devs are putting their games on GFN without any deal/contract…this is just ridiculous.

 

[Kagey K]

You do it. you need that win without even knowing facts so burden of proof is on you. I know because I was there at launch

Actually burden of proof is on you.

You keep claiming it and haven't proven it, I didn't say it launched on Cloud I said it launched on PlayStation and PC.

You need to prove it launched outside those 2 platforms.

Otherwise your point becomes invalid.

It's not on me to dispute you, it's up to you to back up your claims.

Which you can't

I provide links to outside sources on most of my claims. You cone back with "I feel" and no sources and demand we prove it?

Naaahhh man.

If you wants people to take you seriously, I suggest you learn the rules a bit better.