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[EDMIX]

Says who?

Devs don't "have to" support PC specs lower than XSS at all. Your assumption is what fails your logic.

Agreed.


I think this hot take SOUNDS like it makes sense. The weaker Series S to HOLD BACK everyone else, I thought the same thing, if everyone is making something based on Series S as a base, would it not hold back other platforms?

Well...not really. I was corrected by a friend of mine who works at Bungie and a group of us where talking about this when the systems where first revealed. He told me its no different then when you see developers scale for PC and that the Series S is using the same type of functions as Series X, simply weaker. So I think the overreaction is a knee jerk thing of "oh its weaker, thus everyone else will have to make weak looking games" when in reality, it merely means Series S titles won't look as good as Series X or PS5, not that everyone else needs to only use those specs or something. The way it was made, it makes sense and its not going to harm really anyone.....

(only those who buy it) jk jk lol I kid

 

[DenchDeckard]

Just woke up, how is this thread still going? I'm guessing for my own mental health I don't want to read it...lol

Two years in and still so much salt about the incredible series s

 

[DenchDeckard]

Come on. Some of you guys are so desperate that as soon as some VFX guy from Bossa Studios sings your song you all begin to dance. Not even the people on the console warrior clown planet managed to fill 9 pages with stupidity.

Fucking fire! So many idiots on this site, it's painful. Series S is a class console, they need ro get over themselves. I bought one for my daughter and its brilliant, she doesn't need a series x.

I've played the Matrix and now plagues tale on it and all the games that are thrown at it run amazingly well for the size of the little beast. If devs can't make games run on it when there's a small studio like asobo making plagues tale work on it,nthey aren't worth to be a studio that succeeds.

 

[Godot25]

True PC gamers don't give a fuck about games made for mouth-breathing dudebros like FIFA, NBA2K, and COD xxxxx!

But companies making games give a fuck about "dudebros" playing FIFA, NBA and COD

 

[Soosa]

Series S sells extremely well and was less impacted by the chip shortages. MS would be stupid to drop it.

It's like saying the Switch was a mistake and Nintendo should be going console only. Which some people are crazy enough to believe.

Define extremely well. PS5 is globally sold out, so that is certainly selling extremely well, as a baseline of "extremely well".

Series S have never been globally really sold out, and have been available basically since the launch on some areas.
Series S costs 100-120 € used, with one controller on some countries. So less than 100€ without counting controller. Which means, that there isnt really user base that wants them.

So, how we define extremely well? MS doesnt release numbers I think, so it is hard to compare series s Vs series x Vs ps5.

Maybe series s sells/sold extremely well on some areas (USA, UK?), but it did not on global scale. Unless they manufactured them like 2-5x more than PS5, so they saturated market early?

Market have been saturated by series s for months/years in some areas, and series x have been available on stores for months now (here).

And we know that PS5 sells maybe 1.5-2:1 ratio vs. xbox total. So when some consoles have been easily available and some dont, saying they all sell extremely well isnt probably correct.

Unless we say that PS5 sells extremely extremely well. They arent on the same line. Or we have to use different standards, like extremely well is 5 million units for one system, and 20 million for another.

Series S isnt failure from business view point, but it is somewhat failure on strong playstation dominated areas as it sells so cheaply now as used.

I personally dislike that games are made for xbox one/series S OR ps4, if it affects the final product I have on my series x/ps5.

Devs know it better, maybe sometimes it is easy to drop resolution and this and that, but sometimes it may not be.
Like if devs would like to make series x game that looks epic, but runs on 1440p, then series S could need something like 720p to be playable.

even if porting is super easy, if they have to have quality control for 1 version vs 2 versions -> it takes more resources

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Man who can't make graphical powerhouse "I Am Fish" run at 60 fps on PS5 and Series X thinks Series S is not powerful enough for his unoptimized turd of a game. Whew!

At least the Twitter bullies made him delete the tweets, happens a lot lately

 

[Godot25]

Do you think devs are crying over Series S specs for games that are already released?

Crying over Series S from devs perspective began before consoles were out.
So, we are 2 years inside generation. Yes, cross-gen period was extended. But right now, if we are taking next-gen only games into account, Series S is managing just fine and in some cases surprisingly great (new Plague Tale game). Of course it is added challenge to optimise for that system (every system in addition is more challenge). Only true next-gen example I think is that Matrix demo and that is also running just fine on Series S.

 

[Godot25]

Define extremely well. PS5 is globally sold out, so that is certainly selling extremely well, as a baseline of "extremely well".

Series S have never been globally really sold out, and have been available basically since the launch on some areas.
Series S costs 100-120 € used, with one controller on some countries. So less than 100€ without counting controller. Which means, that there isnt really user base that wants them.

So, how we define extremely well? MS doesnt release numbers I think, so it is hard to compare series s Vs series x Vs ps5.

Maybe series s sells/sold extremely well on some areas (USA, UK?), but it did not on global scale. Unless they manufactured them like 2-5x more than PS5, so they saturated market early?

Market have been saturated by series s for months/years in some areas, and series x have been available on stores for months now (here).

And we know that PS5 sells maybe 1.5-2:1 ratio vs. xbox total. So when some consoles have been easily available and some dont, saying they all sell extremely well isnt probably correct.

Unless we say that PS5 sells extremely extremely well. They arent on the same line. Or we have to use different standards, like extremely well is 5 million units for one system, and 20 million for another.

Series S isnt failure from business view point, but it is somewhat failure on strong playstation dominated areas as it sells so cheaply now as used.

I personally dislike that games are made for xbox one/series S OR ps4, if it affects the final product I have on my series x/ps5.

Devs know it better, maybe sometimes it is easy to drop resolution and this and that, but sometimes it may not be.
Like if devs would like to make series x game that looks epic, but runs on 1440p, then series S could need something like 720p to be playable.

even if porting is super easy, if they have to have quality control for 1 version vs 2 versions -> it takes more resources

We know from Microsoft that 1/3 of Series S owners are first-time Xbox owners. Which is exactly the reason why Series S exists.

We know that Series generation is successful in Japan mainly thanks to Series S and Game Pass (Series generation already outsold Xbox One gen 2:1)

Multiple report from GfK (UK) suggested that Series S is selling similar amount of consoles as Series X. So it is not that far fetched to think, that maybe 40% of all Series consoles are Series S (in Japan for example it is 1:1).

PS5 is in no way selling 2:1 compared to Xbox. 1,5:1 is more likely.

Of course it takes more resources. But funny thing is that devs are going from optimising for 8 platforms (PC, Xbox One, Xbox One X, Xbox Series X, Xbox Series S, PlayStation 4, PlayStation 4 Pro, PlayStation 5) to 4 platforms (PC, Xbox Series X, Xbox Series S, PlayStation 5) and somehow it is....worse?

Many devs are making a game that is running on Series X/PS5 at 1440p. Example? A Plague Tale Requiem. And you know what? That game is running at 1080p on Series S. And it is playable in same framerate.

 

[PendekarRajawali]

At least my 5 year old nephew loves I am fish.

Come on dudes, even Switch can run DOOM eternals.

 

[EDMIX]

Just woke up, how is this thread still going? I'm guessing for my own mental health I don't want to read it...lol

Two years in and still so much salt about the incredible series s

I mean shit, we had 15 pages talking about a remaster as if that was some brand new concept.

We clearly know why this got to 10 pages lol

 

[reksveks]

 

[lh032]

this spells trouble for Microsoft 1st party exclusive games.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Perfect move.

this spells trouble for Microsoft 1st party exclusive games.

Please explain?

How much trouble was horizon forbidden west? God of war ragnorak? Gran turismo 7?

Are they good games or are reviewers bullshitting us?

 

[Stare-Bear]

Microsoft was really bold in creating the Series S. After the disastrous generation of the Xbox One, they really said to developers; Here's the slow twin of the series X, please invest money in creating a version of your game that looks like ass AND we will put it on gamepass day 1 next to Angry Birds 2 and Cooking Mama 4…

 

[lh032]

Perfect move.

Please explain?

How much trouble was horizon forbidden west? God of war ragnorak? Gran turismo 7?

Are they good games or are reviewers bullshitting us?

i mean next gen games. Not cross gen.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Perfect move.

Please explain?

How much trouble was horizon forbidden west? God of war ragnorak? Gran turismo 7?

Are they good games or are reviewers bullshitting us?

I think Sony is way more handicapped by still supporting the PS4 than MS is by having dual development with xss and XSX.

Those cross gen PS5 games look great but they look like enhanced PS4 games

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Series S is gonna have a huge holiday season.

 

[xHunter]

At least the Twitter bullies made him delete the tweets, happens a lot lately

You should send him some porn to cheer him up

 

[Corndog]

What.
PS3 had a crazy good cpu

And a terrible gpu. Plus the cpu was difficult to utilize.

 

[Punished Miku]

Microsoft was really bold in creating the Series S. After the disastrous generation of the Xbox One, they really said to developers; Here's the slow twin of the series X, please invest money in creating a version of your game that looks like ass AND we will put it on gamepass day 1 next to Angry Birds 2 and Cooking Mama 4…

Is everything okay at home?

 

[DenchDeckard]

i mean next gen games. Not cross gen.

what next gen games are these? can you show me examples of whats not running on it?

Plague tale runs well.

 

[Ansphn]

It makes me wonder if that's why SE still hasn't bothered putting FF7R on Xbox...or why Silent Hill 2 is currently a PS5 exclusive.

If devs don't want to limit their potential they can always just ignore the Xbox completely.

Exactly. I don't know about FF7R but I think Silent Hill remake is the first example of Sony's strategically using the potato's weakness as a leverage for exclusives. When the PS5 Pro releases, they're going to do it even more.

Daddy's dollar bills Phil really fucked up this gen releasing the Series S at lower specs and price point like Nintendo does with their console. Except he fucked up in not realizing that Nintendo is a closed off system that most 3rd party developers avoid because its so weak spec wise. Sony will use this weakness to their advantage.

 

[Kvally]

what next gen games are these? can you show me examples of whats not running on it?

Plague tale runs well.

Flight Simulator on the XSS is fucking . One would be hard pressed to find a game that looks that good even on the XSS.

 

[fermcr]

"... sitting in meetings for the past year..."

That's a lot of time to be in meetings. Do you guys have coffee or potty breaks?

 

[Hendrick's]

Fucking fire! So many idiots on this site, it's painful.

Let's see...

this spells trouble for Microsoft 1st party exclusive games.

Microsoft was really bold in creating the Series S. After the disastrous generation of the Xbox One, they really said to developers; Here's the slow twin of the series X, please invest money in creating a version of your game that looks like ass AND we will put it on gamepass day 1 next to Angry Birds 2 and Cooking Mama 4…

Daddy's dollar bills Phil really fucked up this gen releasing the Series S because he thought he could release a weak system like Nintendo and sell the console for a lower price point. He didn't realize he does not have the loyal Nintendo base that buys everything twice or even 3 times for full price and Sony will use the console's lack of power to their advantage.

Yeah...

 

[lh032]

what next gen games are these? can you show me examples of whats not running on it?

Plague tale runs well.

30fps aint runs well

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Replace "have to support" with "are supporting". Now, can you answer my question?
Thanks

Well, that's a simple answer for you. Those devs who want to support PC builds less performant than XSS aren't the ones complaining about XSS specs, because the games they are making don't have significant performance requirements and therefore aren't as ambitious.

Or are we trying to pretend that all devs target the same minimum performance requirements for all games across the industry... of course not? Because that would be absurd and divorced from reality.

 

[Rendered Tangent]

I mean, they can't really complain too much about the Series S when these companies are still happy to make games for the base PS4 and Xbox One.

I've never really understood this anyway, as pc games are developed to run on GPUs older and weaker than last gen consoles and 40 series Nvidia cards at the same time.

That's a pretty big leap in tech, one far greater than any in the console sphere, so why is developing for Series S suddenly so much of a chore?

It's hardly like the S is total dead weight.

It does have some half decent specs, no?

 

[Duchess]

It does have some half decent specs, no?

Yep. Which is the problem

 

[DenchDeckard]

30fps aint runs well

its 30 FPS on ps5 and series X. are they trash too?

Are you going to feel that way if the next naughty dog main single player games are 30 FPS on ps5? or Sony exclusives?

 

[lh032]

its 30 FPS on ps5 and series X. are they trash too?

Are you going to feel that way if the next naughty dog main single player games are 30 FPS on ps5? or Sony exclusives?

I hope not : (

 

[adamsapple]

I hope not : (

you can only push visual fidelity so far on fixed hardware before something has to give.

 

[Rendered Tangent]

Yep. Which is the problem

I see what you mean.

Still, it's not like it's anywhere near as weak as last gen or old GPUs.

 

[lh032]

you can only push visual fidelity so far on fixed hardware before something has to give.

yes, that is the fidelity mode 30fps.
Just give us a performance mode 60fps with lower visual settings?

 

[adamsapple]

yes, that is the fidelity mode 30fps.
Just give us a performance mode 60fps with lower visual settings?

*laughs in Gotham Knights*

 

[lh032]

*laughs in Gotham Knights*

funny enough, that game doesnt look like "pushing visual fidelity"

 

[TLZ]

I've never really understood this anyway, as pc games are developed to run on GPUs older and weaker than last gen consoles and 40 series Nvidia cards at the same time.

That is the problem many PC gamers have with PC gaming though; games being made for the lowest common denominator. Imagine if they were made only for the 40 series.

 

[Portugeezer]

That is the problem many PC gamers have with PC gaming though; games being made for the lowest common denominator. Imagine if they were made only for the 40 series.

That's why they love framerates.

A Crysis in 2022 would be an insane cost.

yes, that is the fidelity mode 30fps.
Just give us a performance mode 60fps with lower visual settings?

Depends on what the ambitions for ND's nezt game is and what the bottleneck is, to be honest. Graphical settings are one thing, but some things you can't just scale down to improve performance.

 

[Rendered Tangent]

That is the problem many PC gamers have with PC gaming though; games being made for the lowest common denominator. Imagine if they were made only for the 40 series.

Oh, I definitely agree.

If developers weren't having to accommodate so many different platforms, with their varying degrees of performance, who knows what we could see?

I suppose, in reality, this is just how it has to be...the bottom line guarantees it.

 

[CuteFaceJay]

Aren't Bossa the folks who released 'I Am Fish' on the XSX and it's capped at 30FPS?

 

[onesvenus]

Well, that's a simple answer for you. Those devs who want to support PC builds less performant than XSS aren't the ones complaining about XSS specs, because the games they are making don't have significant performance requirements and therefore aren't as ambitious.

Or are we trying to pretend that all devs target the same minimum performance requirements for all games across the industry... of course not? Because that would be absurd and divorced from reality.

Can you name a single game with minimum requirements higher than the equivalent hardware of an XSS?

 

[tygertrip]

But companies making games give a fuck about "dudebros" playing FIFA, NBA and COD

. Damn straight! Actually, the sales of those games fund their financially risky games, so maybe I should watch my snark level, heh.

 

[STARSBarry]

Can you name a single game with minimum requirements higher than the equivalent hardware of an XSS?

Are you making this easy on purpose?

I mean everyone knows Gothem City Knights has terrible preformance and low and behold it has them.

You don't look at good games for that just the bad ones and you did say "one example"

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Are you making this easy on purpose?

I mean everyone knows Gothem City Knights has terrible preformance and low and behold it has them.

You don't look at good games for that just the bad ones and you did say "one example"

That's for 60 fps tho.

 

[STARSBarry]

That's for 60 fps tho.

Yeah at everything low... its going to look like utter dog shit, I don't think the series S is going to have all of its settings on low (at least I hope not)

I'll take a screenshot when it finally unlocks the ability to download at 6PM tonight.

 

[Insane Metal]

...but... scalability

 

[NightmareFarm]

Really angers me that one console is holding back the entire generation. I doubt it's even selling anywhere near as much as the Series X's.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Can you name a single game with minimum requirements higher than the equivalent hardware of an XSS?

Can you name any next-gen exclusive games so far? Of course, there are very few because we're still in the cross-gen development period.

This is an inane argument.

 

[Three]

Really angers me that one console is holding back the entire generation. I doubt it's even selling anywhere near as much as the Series X's.

It's selling more than the Series X that's the unfortunate part for some devs who may still be seeing more game sales on Series X.

 

[Three]

Can you name a single game with minimum requirements higher than the equivalent hardware of an XSS?

Again what you deem to be running on min spec is not something that would be certified by MS.