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[Three]

This is for you DarkMage619

Your apology is accepted

Get in line for that apology

They look at what the consumer market is doing. The commission would have to determine if many people are making a choice between a Switch and one of the other consoles or if it's largely a different audience. The idea that they are not competing isn't farfetched though. Especially as it is a portable hybrid which many buy in addition to.

Again the commission do not concentrate on functionality, it's based purely on consumer buying habits. If you buy both and show that they do not compete it doesn't matter the function. If it's shown you buy one or the other they compete.
...
No need to keep defending MS, nobody is saying they are breaking antitrust laws only that consumer spending habits is what matters and not functionality in determining different markets.


The audience is relevant, and even when they are the same audience, what people buy matters when determining if it's a different market.

"But you're arguing in bad faith, listen to the brilliant analysis of CADE" is all I get in response. Wasn't even arguing anything other than how the commission sees competing markets.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

The FTC is making pretty much the same argument Ass of Can Whooping and I have been making for weeks. Nintendo gamers do not play the same game as Xbox/PS gamers so using Nintendo as evidence of anything in that regards doesn't make any sense.. FTC is calling bullshit on that entire analogy. As they should.

Classic. Nintendo and Steam willingly signed contracts to literally play the same COD game as Xbox and Sony and anyone else.

Go ahead, make that argument, it's going to be shitcanned in court. Good luck with that.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Classic. Nintendo and Steam willingly signed contracts to literally play the same COD game as Xbox and Sony and anyone else.

Go ahead, make that argument, it's going to be shitcanned in court. Good luck with that.

You can play COD on a mobile device too. Doesn't mean the mobile and console markets are the same

Unless you actually do want to be that deluded

 

[Banjo64]

I've read the full report. CMA think that Nintendo don't strictly compete with Sony and Microsoft, how is that wrong? MS tried to present it as if they do. If anything it suggests a fantastic knowledge of the industry, because Nintendo do differentiate themselves from MS and Sony and don't try to compete for the same mindshare.

Can I get in line for that blowjob too? I think we've all had the same conversation with DarkMage619 at various points in our lives. I'm now convinced he's a Microsoft AI like Taybot.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Can I get in line for that blowjob too? I think we've all had the same conversation with DarkMage619 at various points in our lives. I'm now convinced he's a Microsoft AI like Taybot.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

You can play COD on a mobile device too. Doesn't mean the mobile and console markets are the same

But Nintendo literally docks to be a console or handheld like mobile. It's a blurring of the market segmentation and hardware delineation. You don't get to pick one half and not the other. Again common industry acceptance is there are the 3 major consoles. Done.

MS saw this coming hence the glad-handing contracts to Steam and Nintendo.

 

[GHG]

Get in line for that apology



"But you're arguing in bad faith, listen to the brilliant analysis of CADE" is all I get in response. Wasn't even arguing anything other than how the commission sees competing markets.

I don't blame him for his obsession with CADE. I'm also quite a fan of Brazil if you know what I mean.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

But Nintendo literally docks to be a console or handheld like mobile. It's a blurring of the market segmentation and hardware delineation. You don't get to pick one half and not the other. Again common industry acceptance is they are the 3 major consoles. Done.

MS saw this coming hence the glad-handing contracts to Steam and Nintendo.

Do you view mobile phones and consoles as the same market since you can play COD on both

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Do you view mobile phones and consoles as the same market since you can play COD on both

Now you're just oversimlipfying and clearly not interested in reasonable debate.

 

[R3claimer117]

What? The FTC is suing Microsoft, dude. That means this is going to court.



The FTC is making pretty much the same argument Ass of Can Whooping and I have been making for weeks. Nintendo gamers do not play the same game as Xbox/PS gamers so using Nintendo as evidence of anything in that regards doesn't make any sense.. FTC is calling bullshit on that entire analogy. As they should.

Lol they're really not not right now. They can in the future and will lose. If I'm Microsoft I go ahead and close the deal. If and when they want to go to court you go and win the FTC can't decide after years of NPD that includes Nintendo that they don't exist.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Now you're just oversimlipfying and clearly not interested in reasonable debate.

I'm interested in understanding where you're moving the goal post

Funny you talk about oversimplification when to you it's just "three consoles. Done." with no nuance added

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

I'm interested in understanding where you're moving the goal post

So you consider Switch purely a handheld device do you? Who's moving the goal posts.

Does it plugin to a TV? Yes, so it's both handheld and console based depending how you wish to use it at any time. Therefore it falls in console and mobile reports.

I also don't see phone features or app stores for Nintendo, it's a console walled garden that goes portable half the time.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

So you consider Switch purely a handheld device do you? Who's moving the goal posts.

When did I ever say that you clown?

 

[Three]

So you consider Switch purely a handheld device do you? Who's moving the goal posts.

Does it plugin to a TV? Yes, so it's both handheld and console based depending how you wish to use it at any time. Therefore it falls in console and mobile reports.

I also don't see phone features or app stores for Nintendo, it's a console walled garden that goes portable half the time.

Did you know you can connect a phone to a TV with a hdmi cable and game on it with a controller?

Functionality doesn't determine markets. Consumer buying habits do.

 

[DarkMage619]

This is for you DarkMage619

Your apology is accepted

Well the good news is that Xbox isn't in 3rd place any more! So that's something. Hoping the NPD will drop them from the monthly count. They aren't a competitor.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Well the good news is that Xbox isn't in 3rd place any more! So that's something.

Yeah, they never were, which I also told you weeks ago lmao

 

[feynoob]

Ass of Can Whooping

Of these three console makers, PlayStation and Xbox compete in a highperformance segment that includes only the most technologically advanced and capable consoles. In November 2020, both Microsoft and Sony launched their current generation of consoles, the Xbox Series X and Series S consoles (collectively, "Xbox Series X|S") and the PlayStation 5 and PlayStation 5 Digital Edition consoles (collectively, "PS5"), respectively. Xbox Series X|S and PS5 consoles are the only high-performance consoles available today, and are considered to be in the ninth generation of gaming consoles. In contrast, Nintendo's most recent console—the Nintendo Switch—is not a ninth-generation gaming console. The Nintendo Switch was released in 2017, in the latter half of the eighth generation of gaming consoles, which had begun in approximately 2013. The Nintendo Switch ("Switch") also has lower computational performance, more in line with Microsoft's and Sony's eighth generation consoles.

 

[Edgelord79]

Wow the FTC sued! I'm surprised that this happened as I thought there was a low chance of it.

Wonder how this goes now. Just hope D4 isn't affected in anyway as it's all I care about.

 

[feynoob]

Big shots.

The gaming industry recognizes a limited top tier of independent game publishers, sometimes referred to as the "Big 4" or simply the AAA publishers: Activision, Electronic Arts, Take-Two, and Ubisoft. These publishers reliably produce AAA games for high-performance consoles and collectively own a significant portion of the most valuable IP in the gaming industry. These high-profile franchises include, for example, Call of Duty (Activision), FIFA (EA), Grand Theft Auto (Take-Two), and Assassin's Creed (Ubisoft).

Sweet. if this deal gets blocked, then these devs are untouchable by Sony and MS.

 

[DarkMage619]

Yeah, they never were, which I also told you weeks ago lmao

Well you could have told that to the numerous fans here gloating about Xbox being third. It's puts those 3 man .gifs into perspective now. I'm impressed with the progress MS is making in the gaming market getting sued to keep them from making acquisitions. They were a loser before but now they are bigger than ever.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Well you could have told that to the numerous fans here gloating about Xbox being third. It's puts those 3 man .gifs into perspective now. I'm impressed with the progress MS is making in the gaming market getting sued to keep them from making acquisitions. They were a loser before but now they are bigger than ever.

Sure, tag them and i'll tell them, just for you

 

[Topher]

Classic. Nintendo and Steam willingly signed contracts to literally play the same COD game as Xbox and Sony and anyone else.

And? Madden is on Switch as well but that doesn't mean it is an important title there like it is on Xbox and PS. You really think Call of Duty is going to rise to the top of Nintendo's best sellers list every single year like it does on Xbox and PS? Have you looked at the games that sell on Nintendo?

Lol they're really not not right now. They can in the future and will lose. If I'm Microsoft I go ahead and close the deal.

They are not what? Suing? Yes, they really are. The lawsuit was filed.

If and when they want to go to court you go and win the FTC can't decide after years of NPD that includes Nintendo that they don't exist.

 

[bender]

I don't blame him for his obsession with CADE. I'm also quite a fan of Brazil if you know what I mean.

Not my taste but I know what you mean.

Spoiler

 

[R3claimer117]

And? Madden is on Switch as well but that doesn't mean it is an important title there like it is on Xbox and PS. You really think Call of Duty is going to rise to the top of Nintendo's best sellers list every single year like it does on Xbox and PS? Have you looked at the games that sell on Nintendo?



They are not what? Suing? Yes, they really are. The lawsuit was filed.

Console market is not a duopoly! It's not like apple and google. People don't just have a choice of Microsoft or Sony in consoles that's a dumb argument.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Console market is not a duopoly! It's not like apple and google. People don't just have a choice of Microsoft or Sony in consoles that's a dumb argument.

Which consoles let you play the biggest third party AAA games

 

[Topher]

Console market is not a duopoly! It's not like apple and google. People don't just have a choice of Microsoft or Sony in consoles that's a dumb argument.

No shit. That's not the argument I even made.

 

[feynoob]

Activision content is especially valuable to any gaming console or subscription service due to the ability of Activision games to drive sales and engagement. Activision's CEO Bobby Kotick testified that Activision's games are "" and "" Microsoft, in presentations to its Board of Directors regarding this Proposed Acquisition, called Activision's content

Redacted info. Seems like our boy kotick knew this.

 

[feynoob]

FTC thinks PC gaming isnt the same market as consoles.

Gaming PCs are distinct from High-Performance Consoles due to differences in price, hardware, performance, and functionality (i.e., where and when a game can be played), among other factors. Gaming PCs are therefore not included in the Relevant Market. Mobile devices are distinct from High-Performance Consoles due to differences in complexity and quality of game performance, content offerings, monetization approach, gameplay and interface, and audience, among other factors. Microsoft recently confirmed this factual distinction in testimony during the trial of Epic Games, Inc. v. Apple Inc., 559 F.Supp.3d 898, 981 (N.D. Cal. 2021). Mobile gaming devices are therefore not included in the Relevant Market.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Did you know you can connect a phone to a TV with a hdmi cable and game on it with a controller?

Functionality doesn't determine markets. Consumer buying habits do.

Exactly my point. Nintendo, Sony, Xbox all enable this sort of stuff e.g. streaming to phones with controllers and a game sub etc. Just like a switch does.

You literally contradict your own point thinking it's a gotchya. I cannot wait for the FTC to try this argument in court. Laughable.

You also seem focused on the Switch when Nintendo is a classic console manufacturer and platform.

 

[feynoob]

Prior to the Proposed Acquisition, Activision sought to maximize its profits from sales of its video game titles. The Proposed Acquisition would change Activision's incentives, because Microsoft stands to gain significant profits from additional gamers purchasing Xbox consoles or Xbox Game Pass. Hence, the combined firm will be incentivized to disadvantage Microsoft rivals by withholding Activision content from, or degrading Activision content on, rival consoles and subscription services to promote sales of Microsoft's products.

Cant argue with that.
MS benefits the most from this.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Old execs shocked the young team of regulators knows what a fucking console is.

 

[HoofHearted]

Sorry if something like this already posted but..

First rule of getting what you want… file a lawsuit to get concessions…

Looks like there will be a lot of posturing for the next bit… Politicians gotta get in their news cycle airtime …

 

[feynoob]

Did you know you can connect a phone to a TV with a hdmi cable and game on it with a controller?

Functionality doesn't determine markets. Consumer buying habits do.

Mobile devices are distinct from High-Performance Consoles due to differences in complexity and quality of game performance, content offerings, monetization approach, gameplay and interface, and audience, among other factors. Microsoft recently confirmed this factual distinction in testimony during the trial of Epic Games, Inc. v. Apple Inc., 559 F.Supp.3d 898, 981 (N.D. Cal. 2021). Mobile gaming devices are therefore not included in the Relevant Market.

FTC handles that very well.

 

[twilo99]

Cant argue with that.
MS benefits the most from this.

You don't spend billions of dollars to not benefit.

You who else benefits greatly? Me. The PC gamer with a game pass subscription. The FTC are withholding cheaper content from me.

 

[Thirty7ven]

You don't spend billions of dollars to not benefit.

You who else benefits greatly? Me. The PC gamer with a game pass subscription. The FTC are withholding cheaper content from me.

Your buying habits are not more important than the rest of the market. Mommy lied about you being the most special boy in the world.

 

[twilo99]

Sounds like only Sony is allowed to have "exclusives"

Your buying habits are not more important than the rest of the market. Mommy lied about you being the most special boy in the world.

She actually got it right!

But you can't argue that blocking this deal is harmful to PC and Xbox players..

 

[Three]

Exactly my point. Nintendo, Sony, Xbox all enable this sort of stuff e.g. streaming to phones with controllers and a game sub etc. Just like a switch does.

You literally contradict your own point thinking it's a gotchya. I cannot wait for the FTC to try this argument in court. Laughable.

You also seem focused on the Switch when Nintendo is a classic console manufacturer and platform.

How have I contradicted myself?
It seems you have

Do you view mobile phones and consoles as the same market since you can play COD on both

Now you're just oversimlipfying and clearly not interested in reasonable debate.

I'm interested in understanding where you're moving the goal post

Funny you talk about oversimplification when to you it's just "three consoles. Done." with no nuance added

So you consider Switch purely a handheld device do you? Who's moving the goal posts.

Does it plugin to a TV? Yes, so it's both handheld and console based depending how you wish to use it at any time. Therefore it falls in console and mobile reports.

I also don't see phone features or app stores for Nintendo, it's a console walled garden that goes portable half the time.

Did you know you can connect a phone to a TV with a hdmi cable and game on it with a controller?

Functionality doesn't determine markets. Consumer buying habits do.

So is it "3 consoles. done" or is a phone a console too with added portable features?
"Does it plugin to a TV? Yes, so it's a phone, handheld and console"

You still haven't clarified, do you view mobile phones as the same market?

If you consider the audience or market on mobile as different why is it so far fetched for the Switch?

 

[Thirty7ven]

Sounds like only Sony is allowed to have "exclusives"

She actually got it right!

But you can't argue that blocking this deal is harmful to PC and Xbox players..

It's not harmful at all, you will get the games anyway.

 

[feynoob]

Stop fuking arguing and watch the game awards you goddamn kids. Take a break.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Of these three console makers, PlayStation and Xbox compete in a highperformance segment that includes only the most technologically advanced and capable consoles. In November 2020, both Microsoft and Sony launched their current generation of consoles, the Xbox Series X and Series S consoles (collectively, "Xbox Series X|S") and the PlayStation 5 and PlayStation 5 Digital Edition consoles (collectively, "PS5"), respectively. Xbox Series X|S and PS5 consoles are the only high-performance consoles available today, and are considered to be in the ninth generation of gaming consoles. In contrast, Nintendo's most recent console—the Nintendo Switch—is not a ninth-generation gaming console. The Nintendo Switch was released in 2017, in the latter half of the eighth generation of gaming consoles, which had begun in approximately 2013. The Nintendo Switch ("Switch") also has lower computational performance, more in line with Microsoft's and Sony's eighth generation consoles.

And how about the next 1-3 hardware releases Nintendo have over the next decade? Again, we see a bias. How about what Sony offer or Xbox or another competitor which has entry whenever they like, just like Xbox does for handheld/mobile devices.

Creating a faux duopoly to give credence to your argument isn't going to win the FTC case, it's not even going to stand up to scrutiny in court. Xbox weren't the first to provide subs, Sony sell on PC too, Steam/Nintendo contracted GP, Tencent and Sony dominant the Eastern markets etc.

The high performance point, even if it was valid, must include PCs, steamdecks and all the rest based on its own criteria. Again this argument is going to be squashed very quickly in open court. Which in reality is just a leverage move from the FTC for more concession during the current process.

How about Sony VR for that Nintendo used to be in that market decades ago and have recent entries too? They're high performance and gaming, some even blur the portability lines or connect to phones etc too. Again, creating this duopoly argument falls apart in the wider gaming industry or segments.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Stop fuking arguing and watch the game awards you goddamn kids. Take a break.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

And? Madden is on Switch as well but that doesn't mean it is an important title there like it is on Xbox and PS. You really think Call of Duty is going to rise to the top of Nintendo's best sellers list every single year like it does on Xbox and PS? Have you looked at the games that sell on Nintendo?

Sales performance is not the concern of the FTC. The competitive opportunity of being there is.

Functionality doesn't determine markets. Consumer buying habits do.

The irony is not lost. Cool, neither does performance as the FTC claim then. Again, you don't get to have it both ways on a whim.

So is it "3 consoles. done" or is a phone a console too with added portable features?
"Does it plugin to a TV? Yes, so it's a phone, handheld and console"

You still haven't clarified, do you view mobile phones as the same market?

If you consider the audience or market on mobile as different why is it so far fetched for the Switch?

It's gaming, all encompassing. There does not need to be a line in the sand the FTC is so desperately trying to create; just so they have a case where there is none. FTC and posters such as yourself are the ones trying to twist a currently and foreseeable factually competitive market in favour of Sony doing well or some anti-MS rhetoric.

 

[Topher]

Sales performance is not the concern of the FTC. The competitive opportunity of being there is.

Avoid the point then.....

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Avoid the point then.....

It's not avoiding the point. It's clarifying the reasoning and definitions to highlight it's not a valid argument to being with. The proof is on you, you made the claim. Prove it. The FTC is about enabling the fact Madden can even be on the Switch vs whatever else in a price competitive market. It is NOT about whether Madden sold more on one platform vs another.

 

[Topher]

It's not avoiding the point. It's clarifying the reasoning and definitions to highlight it's not a valid argument to being with. The proof is on you, you made the claim. Prove it. The FTC is about enabling the fact Madden can even be on the Switch vs whatever else in a price competitive market. It is NOT about whether Madden sold more on one platform vs another.

The invalid argument is equating Nintendo and PlayStation when it comes to games like Call of Duty. That is my claim and my argument is that the dissimilarity of games that are popular between and Switch and PS/Xbox bares that out. The list of annual bestsellers going back to the first year Switch was on the market is my proof. Microsoft wants regulators to believe that Call of Duty is no more important to PlayStation than it is to Nintendo. That's just bullshit.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

The invalid argument is equating Nintendo and PlayStation when it comes to games like Call of Duty. That is my claim and my argument is that the dissimilarity of games that are popular between and Switch and PS/Xbox bares that out. The list of annual bestsellers going back to the first year Switch was on the market is my proof. Microsoft wants regulators to believe that Call of Duty is no more important to PlayStation than it is to Nintendo. That's just bullshit.

But it's not forward thinking about changing market conditions. Nintendo has the install base with Switch and future console releases or past performance history to rival the success of Sony. It's healthy market competition.

What are you opposing exactly? To me your argument just reads as "the FTC force the status quo on the market because Sony want to keep their ball in their yard".

 

[Topher]

But it's not forward thinking about changing market conditions. Nintendo has the install base with Switch and future console releases or past performance history to rival the success of Sony. It's healthy market competition.

What are you opposing exactly? To me your argument just reads as "the FTC force the status quo on the market because Sony want to keep their ball in their yard".

No idea how you read that out of what I just posted. I don't think we are talking about the same thing. Going to drop it.

 

[gothmog]

Not sure if this is new, but Diablo4 is in my coming soon collection on PS5. Says just announced.

 

[R3claimer117]

People keep saying the CMA has a negative outlook on this because of their phase one findings. Didn't they say themselves that their public posting were not indicative of what their decision or even positioning was on the deal.