Support NeoGAF

[Kerotan]

Lol MS saying Sony have 5 times more exclusives. I guess that settles that debate.

 

[GHG]

Sounds like Linas heading to the chopping block.

They're already setting her up for demise.

In that case she's looking to go out with a bang then.

 

[feynoob]

In that case she's looking to go out with a bang then.

MS vs her new kid

 

[Chiggs]

This is a massive stretch IMO. The general population of consumers couldn't give a shit, and won't even know it's happening.

I'm also not sure it's true that even consumers who are paying attention would think a big company trying to get bigger is bad - they're more likely to fail to understand why anyone has the right to stop them. I'm far from a die hard capitalist, but even I can't see any valid reason to oppose this.

Hey, I'm just trying to rationalize a flimsy case.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Lol MS saying Sony have 5 times more exclusives. I guess that settles that debate.

Ironic, eh?

Especially the cheerleading of that quote, which would have been pushed back on under any other mouth or circumstance. Hell, they probably would have asked mods to ban people on here who pulled that out their ass.

 

[DarkMage619]

Have you looked at his numbers? Yes he is.

Prove it. Globally it is pretty easy to show Sony with the vast majority of marketshare.

Imagine the mental gymnastics when MS themselves say they have 30% and Sony 70% of the market globally and me saying the FTC would look at the US market with a closer to 50/50 split to then try and drag Nintendo back into this. Do you know how to count to 100?

You can't have it both ways. If he is talking globally and the FTC is talking US alone you still won't get a 50/50 split and we aren't even talking about the same regions. So you know the difference between global and local?

The latest NPD figures still shows Sony way ahead not 50/50 in the US. The only time they were that close was during the X360 era. Apparently many people can't count because I still keep seeing MS ranked third because it's silly to pretend Nintendo does not exist. The NPD also missed the memo because they had all sorts of sales info about the non-existent Switch outselling Xbox.

I'm glad the FTC must prove their case in court. They must show how MS is a gaming monopoly. That isn't true no matter how much people try to drag up ancient stories of MS in the 90s or cut up the market to make MS bigger than they are in gaming.

 

[Three]

Prove it.

Ask your higher ups for that, Brad Smith. Why are you asking me to prove his numbers?

"If you look at the global market, Sony has 70% of that market, and we have 30%." - Brad Smith, Vice Chairman of MS

I'm not going to get dragged into your dumb circular debate about Nintendo.

 

[Hendrick's]

Translation: The business world is upset the ftc isn't just rubber stamping everything like they used to.

Dumb take. It's clearly a politically motivated witch hunt.

 

[Hendrick's]

In that case she's looking to go out with a bang then.

Or like a wet fart.

 

[Ozriel]

People forget that Microsoft's first idea in the gaming space was to buy Nintendo. They literally had a meeting where they proposed the idea and Nintendo CEO's laughed them out of the conference room.

Well yes. When you're entering a well entrenched market, allying with it buying an established player is pretty much the norm.

Afterall, Sony's initial attempt to enter gaming was to partner with Nintendo. And they did snap up studios and publishers. Google started up Stadia with them acquiring studios. Amazon and Facebook bought up studios for their games division.

Sony will still compete with relative ease imo.

at least you're aligned with what Microsoft has been saying for a while.

 

[HoofHearted]

They killed the then word processing market leader Wordperfect with their aggressive OS bundling, with the then popular windows 3.0 and restricted interoperability too (API access) so wordperfect ran poorly. Then once they were dead Word 6 was expensive and no longer being offered free like previous versions. Office was $995 in 1990, Word 6 $490 or something crazy like that.

That's certainly one contributing factor - but not the entire story and reasons as to why WordPerfect ultimately failed in the market.

 

[Ozriel]

They killed the then word processing market leader Wordperfect with their aggressive OS bundling, with the then popular windows 3.0 and restricted interoperability too (API access) so wordperfect ran poorly. Then once they were dead Word 6 was expensive and no longer being offered free like previous versions. Office was $995 in 1990, Word 6 $490 or something crazy like that.

You should have read that Wikipedia article properly before posting.

The 'aggressive bundling' line referred to Word being bundled along with Excel, PowerPoint and Mail as an office suite, making it a more compelling purchase than WordPerfect standalone.
The text there specifically says

helped by aggressive bundling deals that ultimately produced Microsoft Office.

Not sure how you spun that as 'OS bundling',

 

[Three]

You should have read that Wikipedia article properly before posting.

The 'aggressive bundling' line referred to Word being bundled along with Excel, PowerPoint and Mail as an office suite, making it a more compelling purchase than WordPerfect standalone.
The text there specifically says



Not sure how you spun that as 'OS bundling',

That's because I was actually referring to the aggressive OS bundling that some thought never occurred and not referring to any Wikipedia article you might have read.

They bundled it with the OS. Go back and read the thread

They were bundled with windows.

Articles | InformIT

www.informit.com

"The big claim to fame for Windows 2.0, however, was that it came bundled with Microsoft's Word and Excel applications. Word and Excel were graphical apps competing against the text-based interfaces of then-reigning competitors WordPerfect and Lotus 1-2-3; the Microsoft apps needed a GUI shell to run properly, hence the bundling with Windows."

I know you want the post you made here to be right:

Lmao. Microsoft would be facing massive antitrust probes if they tried bundling Office with Windows.

But it's wrong. They did bundle word and excel and it was before any antitrust concerns with MS and windows really came to light. By that time Microsofts format was in wide use and the antitrust cases were trying to make the market competitive so that others can use the documents created in word, excel, etc.

 

[Cheezewizz]

Prove it. Globally it is pretty easy to show Sony with the vast majority of marketshare.

You can't have it both ways. If he is talking globally and the FTC is talking US alone you still won't get a 50/50 split and we aren't even talking about the same regions. So you know the difference between global and local?

The latest NPD figures still shows Sony way ahead not 50/50 in the US. The only time they were that close was during the X360 era. Apparently many people can't count because I still keep seeing MS ranked third because it's silly to pretend Nintendo does not exist. The NPD also missed the memo because they had all sorts of sales info about the non-existent Switch outselling Xbox.

I'm glad the FTC must prove their case in court. They must show how MS is a gaming monopoly. That isn't true no matter how much people try to drag up ancient stories of MS in the 90s or cut up the market to make MS bigger than they are in gaming.

If it's just concerning the US, which I would assume is the case for the FTC. The Playstation/Xbox split is close to 50/50.

I'm not sure on the exact figures so don't hold me to it, but I believe the PS4/XB1 split in the US was something like 33 million PS4 sold to 30 million XB1 sold. I know the difference was only a couple of million or so. As far as the PS5/Series goes, I believe that the Series was actually ahead of the PS5 up to 2 or 3 months ago. The PS5 may have sold more by now, I'm not sure, but either way it's still close between the two.

I think the problem with Brad's tweet was that he's quoting worldwide data in regards to the FTC when the FTC's only concern is the US.

 

[Ozriel]

That's because I was actually referring to the aggressive OS bundling that some thought never occurred and not referring to any Wikipedia article you might have read.

They bundled it with the OS. Go back and read the thread

You should really have read your own post. The software literally required windows to run, so it was bundled with Windows 1 and 2.0. Both released at a time when WordPerfect was still the dominant word processor…dominance that lasted until the early 90s, after Windows 3.0 grew in popularity - a version of Windows that wasn't bundled with Word. In the context of the discussion we were having earlier, your 'OS bundling' did not shake WordPerfect's dominance at the time.

I know you want the post you made here to be right:

Again, it's good for you to read the thread before jumping in. My post was about the level of scrutiny MS would receive if they were to be bundling Office with Windows in this day and age. The poster I was responding to was calling MS 'greedy' for selling Office instead of bundling it with windows for free.

But it's wrong. They did bundle word and excel and it was before any antitrust concerns with MS and windows really came to light.

Probably because Windows 1.0 and 2.0 weren't exactly dominating the market. Can't have had any antitrust concerns at the time.

 

[DarkMage619]

Ask your higher ups for that, Brad Smith. Why are you asking me to prove his numbers?

"If you look at the global market, Sony has 70% of that market, and we have 30%." - Brad Smith, Vice Chairman of MS

I'm not going to get dragged into your dumb circular debate about Nintendo.

You are a accusing him of lying, you prove your claim. Also again you are mistaken; it's dumb to not include Nintendo in the market and debate that it isn't a competitor. I'm happy to correct you though. Let me know when you can support your assertions with actual evidence.

If it's just concerning the US, which I would assume is the case for the FTC. The Playstation/Xbox split is close to 50/50.

I think the problem with Brad's tweet was that he's quoting worldwide data in regards to the FTC when the FTC's only concern is the US.

The Xbox is certainly closer to PlayStation in the US vs the rest of the world but you have to consider that MS isn't just trying to win support for the acquisition in the US alone. It is also ridiculous to exclude Nintendo from that count. No one goes to the store looking for a 'low performance' or 'high performance' console; it's about library and pricing. The market was never divided that way. Until we get info from MS about the US specifically the 70/30 worldwide split is the best comparison we have.

 

[nikolino840]

https://aflcio.org/press/releases/a...calls-microsoft-activision-blizzard-deal-move

 

[Three]

You should really have read your own post. The software literally required windows to run, so it was bundled with Windows 1 and 2.0.

Are you playing dumb or are you really suggesting requiring a GUI shell means it has to be bundled with the OS?

What has requiring a GUI to run have to do with bundling it with the OS? Mac had MS Word too, before Windows even IIRC.

Both released at a time when WordPerfect was still the dominant word processor…dominance that lasted until the early 90s, after Windows 3.0 grew in popularity - a version of Windows that wasn't bundled with Word. In the context of the discussion we were having earlier, your 'OS bundling' did not shake WordPerfect's dominance at the time.

It very much did. Windows 3.0 still had Word 1.1. You may disagree but its bundling is what drove words exposure and vice versa. The OS even till Windows 3.1 also had APIs that word used and WordPerfect did not have access to so was slower. By the time wordperfect had reacted to the OS it was too little too late

This is what the word processor market looked like:

The DOJ went after MS in 1997. EU even later with fines for the formats Word, excel, etc used. In early 2000s

Anyway all this is irrelevant:
TLDR - The bundling I was referring to was actually bundling to windows and not some article you think I've misread.

 

[DarkMage619]

https://aflcio.org/press/releases/a...calls-microsoft-activision-blizzard-deal-move

The FTC could have used this acquisition to push some ideals like worker rights and getting more from big companies with regard to competitive practices. Them dismissing it out of hard with such weak arguments can't be good for the organization long term. Idealistic fantasies should not replace realistic outcomes.

 

[drganon]

Dumb take. It's clearly a politically motivated witch hunt.

 

[nikolino840]

The FTC could have used this acquisition to push some ideals like worker rights and getting more from big companies with regard to competitive practices. Them dismissing it out of hard with such weak arguments can't be good for the organization long term. Idealistic fantasies should not replace realistic outcomes.

And is the second union group to be in favor of msf+abk

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Deal is going to pass.



They are coming for Lina Khans head

http://[URL]https://www.bloomberg.c...&utm_term=221215&utm_campaign=author_22796872

[/URL]

The Activision-Microsoft Deal Is FTC Chair Khan's Biggest Target Yet

Biden antitrust chief Lina Khan is skeptical of big mergers like the deal to buy the maker of Call of Duty—and isn't afraid to stop them in court.

Khan has drawn criticism from the business world and its supporters. Her Republican commissioners have accused her of withholding information, jettisoning the FTC's prior norms of bipartisanship and collegiality. The US Chamber of Commerce, which has called out the FTC for creating a "black-box environment" for business, sued the agency this summer for failing to make public documents about its voting procedures and communications with international regulators.

House Republicans have indicated they plan to ratchet up scrutiny of Khan after they take control of the chamber in January, with the Judiciary Committee's top GOP member, Representative Jim Jordan of Ohio, accusing her of pursuing a "radical, anti-free-market agenda."

Agency morale is at an all-time low after years in which the FTC was ranked as among the top places to work in the federal government. Employees have complained about Khan's lack of communication and decisions that move forward without staff input. In an employee survey that took place from May to July of this year, only 44% of the staff reported having a high level of respect for FTC leaders, while 32% said they plan to leave the agency within the year, according to a person who viewed the numbers but wasn't authorized to discuss the survey results because they aren't yet public.

"Our senior leadership takes the results of the survey seriously and is dedicated to creating an agency environment that best facilitates the meaningful work staff do on behalf of the American people," says Elizabeth Wilkins, who's serving as chief of staff on an interim basis.

The Microsoft-Activision complaint shouldn't have come as a surprise, considering it involves digital platforms, the tech industry and vertical integration, all areas Khan has said require heightened scrutiny, says Barry Nigro, an antitrust lawyer at Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson.

"If they win, it will be a huge win," says Nigro, who was a senior DOJ official involved in the failed AT&T-Time Warner challenge. "If they lose, I think what it means is they are going to take more shots. They are trying to change the law. They may have to file and litigate a number of cases before they start to get traction."

 

[Goalus]

Where's this quote from?

Brad Smith, MS's Chief Legal Officer.

 

[feynoob]

A Agent Icebeezy the deal needs to pass CMA first.
If it did, then the deal would pass.

 

[Kagey K]

Imagine being a position where if you don't sue people will say you did nothing to stop it, but if you do sue, you will get your ass handed to you in court and having to decide which looks better for you optically.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

A Agent Icebeezy the deal needs to pass CMA first.
If it did, then the deal would pass.

I know that the CMA and EC still need to look at this. What I'm seeing though is that I'm sure the other regulators are paying attention to what is happening. Brazil, Saudi Arabia and Serbia approved. No questions from their press or anything else of this nature. FTC sues, continued outpour from news outlets and other entities, denigrating the FTC. Unwittingly, the parameters of this are being shaped by those that went first. Leaving footsteps, so to speak.

The others are not going to follow the path of the FTC. They just aren't. They will take on a more pragmatic approach. So, my response isn't just to the FTC, it's me just making a declaration of that this deal will pass not just here in the States but in all places when it is said and done.

 

[feynoob]

I know that the CMA and EC still need to look at this. What I'm seeing though is that I'm sure the other regulators are paying attention to what is happening. Brazil, Saudi Arabia and Serbia approved. No questions from their press or anything else of this nature. FTC sues, continued outpour from news outlets and other entities, denigrating the FTC. Unwittingly, the parameters of this are being shaped by those that went first. Leaving footsteps, so to speak.

The others are not going to follow the path of the FTC. They just aren't. They will take on a more pragmatic approach. So, my response isn't just to the FTC, it's me just making a declaration of that this deal will pass not just here in the States but in all places when it is said and done.

But there is a risk that CMA might shut it down.
If CMA shuts it down, then the deal is dead.
If they pass it, the EU would pass it too, which means it will be MS vs FTC.

So far, the judge is CMA.

 

[gothmog]

Lol. You know this deal is on the ropes when people start turning it into a political fight. Kahn had bipartisan support to clamp down on big tech. Obviously there's going to be a lot of owned players making noise about this because of lobbying.

 

[12Dannu123]

Lol. You know this deal is on the ropes when people start turning it into a political fight. Kahn had bipartisan support to clamp down on big tech. Obviously there's going to be a lot of owned players making noise about this because of lobbying.

It doesn't matter if the she has bipartisan support. She still need solid reasoning on why the acquisition needs to be blocked and so far, she hasn't provided a convincing case.

 

[freefornow]

Sony will still compete with relative ease imo.

100% they will. Anyone who believes otherwise is seriously delusional or is named

 

[12Dannu123]

The FTC would be looking at the US marketshare, not Brad Smith's fabricated global marketshare.

Regardless of whether its US or global. This FTC needs to provide a solid argument on why Nintendo isn't a competitor. If they can't, that means that Nintendo is a competitor and their whole augment falls apart, because the judge will ask why Nintendo can thrive without COD.

 

[Banjo64]

Regardless of whether its US or global. This FTC needs to provide a solid argument on why Nintendo isn't a competitor. If they can't, that means that Nintendo is a competitor and their whole augment falls apart, because the judge will ask why Nintendo can thrive without COD.

Microsoft's own internal documents support this according to the CMA.

 

[DarkMage619]

Lol. You know this deal is on the ropes when people start turning it into a political fight. Kahn had bipartisan support to clamp down on big tech. Obviously there's going to be a lot of owned players making noise about this because of lobbying.

She failed to get bipartisan support for the vote to sue MS and the other republican on the committee quit because he felt his opinions weren't listened to. That does not strike me that there is a spirit of cooperation on the board.

Microsoft's own internal documents support this according to the CMA.

Pretty sure MS has repeatedly stated they were third in consoles. They may call out Sony seeing how they are actively trying to scuttle this deal but that doesn't mean they aren't competing with Nintendo for gamer's time and money.

100% they will. Anyone who believes otherwise is seriously delusional or is named

No sane person believes that Sony, even without a hypothetical CoD, wouldn't still be a juggernaut in gaming. MS was a laughing stock before, now people are trying to act like they control all of gaming. It's amazing to see.

 

[Banjo64]

Pretty sure MS has repeatedly stated they were third in consoles.

Public statements vs internal tracking and metrics that aren't meant to be shared.

One is valuable, one could be printed on toilet roll.

 

[DarkMage619]

Public statements vs internal tracking and metrics that aren't meant to be shared.

One is valuable, one could be printed on toilet roll.

Providing false information can be quite problematic. Thankfully the NPD also confirms that Xbox is third in console sales.

 

[GHG]

Providing false information can be quite problematic. Thankfully the NPD also confirms that Xbox is third in console sales.

And whose fault is that?

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

https://www.uschamber.com/regulations/u-s-chamber-of-commerce-stands-up-to-ftc-going-rogue

U.S. Chamber of Commerce Stands Up to FTC Going Rogue

Chamber CEO Clark: 'The FTC is waging a war against American businesses, so the U.S. Chamber is fighting back'
Published

November 19, 2021

Washington, D.C. — The U.S. Chamber of Commerce today submitted a series of filings and letters to the Federal Trade Commission to strenuously object to the FTC's recent egregious practices that pose a grave threat to American businesses and economic growth.
"The FTC is waging a war against American businesses, so the U.S. Chamber is fighting back to protect free enterprise, American competitiveness, and economic growth," said Suzanne P. Clark, president and CEO of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.
"The FTC's radical departure from its core mission under Chairwoman Khan is deeply concerning to our members across the business ecosystem. American companies are facing historic challenges with inflation, strained supply chains and worker shortages, while the FTC is going rogue and engaging in regulatory overreach that is accelerating uncertainty and threatening our fragile economic recovery."
"Today, the Chamber is putting the FTC on notice that we will use every tool at our disposal, including litigation, to stop its abuse of power, to stand up for due process, and to protect the free enterprise system and America's vibrant economy," added Clark. "And we will work with policymakers on Capitol Hill to hold the commission accountable."
Specifically, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce is raising formal objections to:

• The use of so-called "zombie" voting by former Democratic Commissioner Rohit Chopra. The agency claims that secret rules allow a commissioner to cast secret votes before leaving office and then count those votes as needed after his departure. It is clear that the FTC's reliance on zombie votes is unlawful. (See letter here.)
• External Influence on FTC decision making. Congress created the FTC as an independent agency, entrusting it to exercise its expert opinion free from political influence. Current law and precedent gives agencies deference when they exercise their expert judgement and engage in reasoned decision-making. However, it appears that much of the FTC's current agenda may be driven by external actors, including the White House. Political interference into the decision making of independent agencies undermines agency rulemaking and the rule of law and calls into question whether agencies have forfeited the deference they currently enjoy. (See letter here.)
• The FTC's Use of Civil Penalty Authority. Earlier this year, the FTC followed a recommendation by former Commissioner Chopra to resurrect the use of the Penalty Offense Authority to go after entire industries. The FTC issued public letters to 1,800 companies warning that they'll face severe penalties, potentially side stepping the requirement for a case-by-case analysis. This appears to be an attempt to publicly shame companies, laying the groundwork to impose substantial future penalties on legitimate companies. (See letter here.)

In addition to these letters, today the Chamber filed more than 30 Freedom of Information Requests with the FTC to seek detailed information on how it has manipulated its rules and procedures while potentially ceding its independent agency status to political interference.
Recent actions from the FTC that undermine its checks and balances include:

• allowing one commissioner, as opposed to a majority, to authorize compulsory investigations
• changing the rulemaking process to give the Chair more control
• announcing that it is counting the "zombie" votes of a commissioner who is no longer serving to break 2-2 ties
• withdrawing the statement of enforcement principles regarding "unfair methods of competition," removing the central role of consumers and economic analysis
• rescinding the 1995 policy statement on prior notice and approval for future acquisitions subjecting even small future acquisitions to prior approval
• repealing the 2020 vertical merger guidelines—creating uncertainty

[h4][/h4]

Khan thinks that the laws don't apply to her because how she is trying to move is unconstitutional.

They are currently suing the FTC.

 

[Banjo64]

And whose fault is that?

We've reached a critical moment here in The Dark One's personal development;

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

So with Apple allowing third party stores and Google opening up to other cloud services, the argument that we need a big bad wolf MS in order to break open that market is officially dead.

This is a dumb statement and the complete opposite take to reality. Open stores and markets allow competition to flourish. You are correct about not needing MS to break open the market, it's already open. You've conflated your own point but it's not related. Again it's exactly what happened in the cloud hosting space over the last decade. The same thing is happening to gaming now.

It does depend on what numbers are being used, which should be a real treat for all of us when this thing goes to trial. But if we look at 2021 global market share (we'll use a standard report for argument's sake):

https://www.ampereanalysis.com/insight/console-market-reaches-new-heights-with-growth-to-60-billion

• Sony: 46%
• Nintendo: 29%
• Microsoft: 25%

--it becomes a little harder of a case to make.

Also, when Sony is called to testify, I'd expect nothing less than trial by fire by Microsoft's lawyers. The whole thing is gonna get ugly.

And they said console wars were over.

There are fuck all gaming industry reports, financials, media articles or forums etc that would ever exclude Nintendo from a conversation about console gaming. It's not just the Switch that's being talked about here. Why focus on one hardware release? They had the Gamecube, Wii, Wii U, SNES, NES etc etc. Who knows what Ninty's next console is over 10 years...The fact Nintendo at any time could release a verbatim "textbook" console proves the healthiness of competition in this market segment. Go to any website and buy a Switch, it sits right beside Xbox and Sony in the menus, not Apple and Google. It says it all about the common accepted place of Nintendo gaming; consoles, handhelds, "less mature fun games" and accessories/licensing baby. Go ahead and exclude the Switch to simply add up 10 year blocks of Nintendo's performance with other "textbook" consoles, they can enter that textbook market at any old time even if you remove Switch currently.

They are coming for Lina Khans head

Posted this sentiment days and thread pages ago. Industry has had enough meddling and bad outcomes from those with a biased agenda.

She failed to get bipartisan support for the vote to sue MS and the other republican on the committee quit because he felt his opinions weren't listened to. That does not strike me that there is a spirit of cooperation on the board.


Pretty sure MS has repeatedly stated they were third in consoles. They may call out Sony seeing how they are actively trying to scuttle this deal but that doesn't mean they aren't competing with Nintendo for gamer's time and money.


No sane person believes that Sony, even without a hypothetical CoD, wouldn't still be a juggernaut in gaming. MS was a laughing stock before, now people are trying to act like they control all of gaming. It's amazing to see.

It's pretty laughable. Sony pushing nearly double MS market share or competing against Ninty + Xbox combined, literally able to compete if #2 and #3 merged completely. Even if COD was 50% of ALL Sony revenue all it would do is swap Xbox and Sony positions, the market would be negligibly impacted while pushing COD out to Nintendo. It's a dumb case and it's about to fall apart. COD isn't the be all and end all of this industry anyhow. Games like Fortnite or GTA or FIFA haven't had any issue pushing COD turnover. I don't see those developers even needing the backing of MS or being a console platform manufacturer. Same goes for walled garden stores, those games/studios are doing more to open the App stores, just as we've seen in recent posts.

If I was MS, I'd be getting on the offensive to complement their brilliant defence so far. Why isn't the FTC looking at Sony blocking competitors? To me the market and sustainable facts/metrics point more to this case being Sony bullying the market more than MS. Essentially the defence MS if fronting has built their offensive case for them. I'd start attacking and defending.

 

[ReBurn]

They killed the then word processing market leader Wordperfect with their aggressive OS bundling, with the then popular windows 3.0 and restricted interoperability too (API access) so wordperfect ran poorly. Then once they were dead Word 6 was expensive and no longer being offered free like previous versions. Office was $995 in 1990, Word 6 $490 or something crazy like that.

I'm sorry to report that WordPerfect wasn't killed by Microsoft Office. It isn't dead and never was. It's still out there being sold by Corel. Their last major release was in 2021. It's still used by lots of people who still prefer it because it doesn't work just like Microsoft office. It provides more fine grained control over document formatting than Microsoft Word and has features that make it a preferred option for legal document formatting and epub authors.

But by all means continue to present your opinions as fact in the most hyperbolic way possible. It is quite entertaining.

 

[Menzies]

So, there's a smoking-gun document being tossed around the CMA head office with the Microsoft masthead from a senior official within Microsoft ranks, explicitly stating that 'we Microsoft do not compete with Nintendo for consumers time or money'? Or just some internal metrics tracking a 'closer' rival? Find it hard to believe that anyone could conclude that if Nintendo were to suddenly disappear tomorrow that would have no direct benefit to Xbox.

 

[feynoob]

T Three

The WordPerfect Corporation wasn't as big as Microsoft and it realized that it would need to develop for different operating systems and environments if it wished to continue to dominate the word processing market. Microsoft, which marketed Word, and Lotus, which had Ami Pro, were both developing GUI versions of their word processors. WordPerfect didn't have the resources to simultaneously develop an OS/2 and a Windows 3 version, so it had to choose - and the choice was OS/2.

WordPerfect created an excellent OS/2 port of its word processor and many years later, it was still the best available for that operating system. Unfortunately, after IBM and Microsoft split the development of the new platform (with IBM retaining OS/2 while Microsoft created Windows NT), OS/2 quickly became a cult, or niche, product. WordPerfect then scrambled to get a Windows version of its software on the market. But the port to Windows 3.1 was so bad (scrolling a page, for example, you could see each individual letter snake it's way from the bottom to the top of the page, and it was excruciatingly slow) that people moving to the GUI platform had no choice but to move to Word or Ami Pro. The WordPerfect Corporation was in bad shape

WordPerfect and Noorda (supported by Novell's board of directors which included a younger Jack Messman) killed the word processor and its progeny with very little help from Microsoft. There are some in Waltham who say that the debate over suing Microsoft for WordPerfect's demise is what got Chris Stone his pink slip, but we may never know for sure.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ne...osoft-killed-wordperfect-has-no-legs.amp.html

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

I'm sorry to report that WordPerfect wasn't killed by Microsoft Office. It isn't dead and never was. It's still out there being sold by Corel. Their last major release was in 2021. It's still used by lots of people who still prefer it because it doesn't work just like Microsoft office. It provides more fine grained control over document formatting than Microsoft Word and has features that make it a preferred option for legal document formatting and epub authors.

But by all means continue to present your opinions as fact in the most hyperbolic way possible. It is quite entertaining.

I'm really not diving into Office/Windows history and debate in this thead. But once more we see posters without a factual clue about current market conditions or project ones short term. After all the shit MS pulled like this back in the day it has been long forgotten by the market currently, it is delusional to state Office isn't the most competitive it has been ever. Let us look at current day competitors to office -

• Google Workspace Docs is widely used today, more than ever and the biggest competitor to Office in recorded data trends.
• Apple's iWork. We know how hardcore Apple fans are and anti-MS.
• WPS Office - huge in the PDF space.
• Corel Wordperfect, still released and sold today.
• Free Office e.g. popular Apple and Google App. There are also many apps on phones these days e.g. many people just use whatever plugin opens and edits what they need e.g. no office installed on a Google or Apple phone.
• ZOHO Workplace - popular with small to medium businesses.
• Open Office/Libre Office e.g. Linux support.
• Then there is a smattering of free and paid ones - OnlyOffice, Polaris and more.

Totally agree with your reply. Posters out here with just more of the same old MS mentality and bias, sorry it's not based in current or short-term future market realities.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

So, there's a smoking-gun document being tossed around the CMA head office with the Microsoft masthead from a senior official within Microsoft ranks, explicitly stating that 'we Microsoft do not compete with Nintendo for consumers time or money'? Or just some internal metrics tracking a 'closer' rival? Find it hard to believe that anyone could conclude that if Nintendo were to suddenly disappear tomorrow that would have no direct benefit to Xbox.

What? How do you reach the outcome of only Xbox benefitting from Nintendo's demise? Fuck me this is another dumb take.

The entire industry would benefit from the fallout of Nintendo collapsing. Sony, Steam, Xbox, Indies etc. Everyone would be there taking their pound of flesh.

 

[Menzies]

What? How do you reach the outcome of only Xbox benefitting from Nintendo's demise? Fuck me this is another dumb take.

The entire industry would benefit from the fallout of Nintendo collapsing. Sony, Steam, Xbox, Indies etc. Everyone would be there taking their pound of flesh.

Of course they would, that's my point. Sounds like they're in competition then.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Of course they would, that's my point. Sounds like they're in competition then.

Now I see how you set that tone, I agree mate.

 

[feynoob]

Wordpress by antitrust.
Hope this puts this debate down.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...-microsoft-didnt-kill-wordperfect-novell-did/

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

There goes the idea that talent is lost with the ActiBliz buyout. Big dev returns to Blizzard.

Chris Metzen, a key figure in Blizzard's rise during that time period and a man with a wild resume of work for the studio (he's been an artist, writer, designer, creative director and even long-running voice actor on Diablo, StarCraft, WarCraft, WoW and Overwatch, ), has just announced that he's returning, six years after he departed.

What a resume. Dude is returning to the team and titles he helped create. Love to see it.

 

[DarkMage619]

We've reached a critical moment here in The Dark One's personal development;

Yeah I really struggled to call out how Kinect sucked and I didn't like that the X1 was more expensive and weaker hardware so I refused to buy it. That has nothing to do with this acquisition though and how there is no legal basis for the suit. These are independent situations.

If I was MS, I'd be getting on the offensive to complement their brilliant defence so far. Why isn't the FTC looking at Sony blocking competitors? To me the market and sustainable facts/metrics point more to this case being Sony bullying the market more than MS. Essentially the defence MS if fronting has built their offensive case for them. I'd start attacking and defending.

MS will always have to move carefully because their size will always be used to protray them as a bully. I would suggest they don't do anything too aggressive until after the CMA and EC release their rulings. Just keep focusing on the law and how there is no evidence of them breaking it. Keep pointing out the ridiculous assertions Sony and the FTC have made. Point to the 20 year history of them being in the industry and how it's still quite healthy and there has been no evidence of them being a monopoly. Big business will always have to act like a responsible actor or it will bring lots of negative feedback.

 

[oldergamer]

There goes the idea that talent is lost with the ActiBliz buyout. Big dev returns to Blizzard.





What a resume. Dude is returning to the team and titles he helped create. Love to see it.

Cool and all, but that is one guy out of hundreds working on the game.