Microsoft / Activision Deal Approval Watch |OT| (MS/ABK close)

Do you believe the deal will be approved?


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It isn't exactly the open market correcting itself when Xbox takes its parent company's money to buy the biggest independent publishers only to remove games from their competitor's platform.

A true 'balancing act' would have been Xbox investing in new games, studio setups, and expansion of teams to produce more Xbox games and add to the industry.

No, that would be them trying to "organically" grow, which takes a long time, what they are trying to do is as capitalistic as it gets.

They have the money because they are a remarkably successful publicly traded company, and they want to spend those earnings on further growing their business by purchasing another company that is open to a deal. This is not a hostile takeover. Its standard practice in a "open" market. For government agencies to intervene and prevent the open market from functioning freely is the opposite of capitalism, I'm sure you know what that is.

Thinking of xbox and Microsoft as two separate entities? You are fooling yourself.
 
MS is not removing CoD from the Sony platforms, there has been enough backlash and enough assurances from them on the matter already that we can put that to bed. This isn't something that can be correlated to the "case by case basis" Bethesda statement, as they have specifically said CoD will stay by name.
For 10 years?
 
MS is not removing CoD from the Sony platforms, there has been enough backlash and enough assurances from them on the matter already that we can put that to bed. This isn't something that can be correlated to the "case by case basis" Bethesda statement, as they have specifically said CoD will stay by name.
Although we can't trust Microsoft/Xbox because of how they have behaved recently, but let's assume they are gonna abide by what they are saying.

My question is what happens on the 11th year once the 10-year deal expires? COD is removed from Sony and Nintendo platforms. So, ultimately, they are removing COD from other platforms.
 
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This is Phil's direct quote a few months back, he's talking about multiplatform development in context of Nintendo, not just throwing in an Xcloud verison.

"Minecraft and Call of Duty are different games. But from how you get games onto Nintendo, how you run a development team that is targeting multiple platforms, that's experience we have."

Everything can be taken as an assumption, but they (multiple people from MS) have clearly and openly talked about their intent to bring CoD back to Nintendo platforms. There's very little room for assumption in that fact at least.

Phil's quote does not confirm that Call of Duty will have native ports for either Nintendo Switch or its successor. You're making wild inferences and treating those inferences as if they were facts. Phil has also stated that the way that they get games "everywhere" is via cloud gaming. I'm not going to pretend that that is proof that the Nintendo Switch will never get a native Call of Duty port, but at least my speculation lines up with both the Nintendo Switch's current restrictions and what Phil has actually said regarding cloud gaming. You're just pulling stuff out of your arse.
 
Thinking of xbox and Microsoft as two separate entities? You are fooling yourself.

Isn't that the point Microsoft has been trying to make whenever regulators question them? Make it exclusively about Xbox, and how Xbox is small, purposely ignoring the colossus that Microsoft is in the tech industry.
 
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Also forcing the xbox hardware division to be standalone business is likely to be failure, xbox very famously doesn't make money off the consoles. The accessories may make profits but enough??? Very unsure.

They maybe to have some rev split with the ms store but not sure whether it would work out.

The only way rev split as a concession would work is if MS is upfront about actual Game Pass revenue, which currently, they aren't. They obfuscate Game Pass revenue.

The hardware business has no value without the implied and actual connections between it and whatever IP and software production MS has to offer.

I do think that the day MS ceases investing in dedicated hardware is coming, the amount of money lost so far is not negligible, especially when you are firing employees companywide in a bear market.

Personally I don't see them so much as ending dedicated hardware so much as shifting the Xbox model into something more PC-centric. Selling the hardware at a profit, opening it up for full Windows support, being a truly multi-platform publisher (outside of any timed PC exclusives which hardware-wise would make them timed Xbox exclusives in comparison to Sony & Nintendo systems, though they'd still bring those games to those consoles if able i.e Flight Sim to PS as a hypothetical example), thereby also allowing Steam, GOG, EGS and other storefronts as usable on the hardware.

I could definitely see them shifting it to a Steam Deck/Steam Machines model; considering Valve sort of wants to shift PC game dev reliance away from Windows and to Linux/Steam OS, MS might want to prioritize the platform that's been their actual bedrock and their actual gaming origins, and leverage Xbox hardware to do it.

I know SEGA on a Wednesday is a meme but I completely agree. Strong PC footprint with Football Manager and Total War. Solves the Japanese question with Yakuza, Persona and Megami Tensei. Sonic as a mascot too. Plus with the insane back catalogue they could add to Game Pass; Virtua Fighter, Virtua Tennis, Super Monkey Ball, their kart racers and their classic collections. Strong ties between MS and SEGA historically too.

I get that CoD and King are money makers but they're just going for the normie market with ABK.

You do realize MS got a ton of SEGA exclusives on the OG Xbox without needing to acquire them, right? Also if you think Sony is being pissy over ABK, you haven't seen anything yet if MS go after SEGA because that's when Nintendo starts getting a LOT more vocal.

They're not going to risk letting Sonic move away from Nintendo hardware (or its fanbase) as its primary home, or lose the ability to do stuff like the Sonic & Mario Olympics series.

To be clear here, when I made that post, I wasn't necessarily assuming that any company would actually want to purchase the Xbox brand hardware + Xbox Live infrastructure, so if nobody like Tencent, Amazon, Electronic Arts, etc. decide that they want to acquire the Xbox hardware division from Microsoft, then the Xbox Series X|S consoles would just wither away and experience the fate of the Dreamcast, and for the online services on Xbox consoles to be summarily shut down by Microsoft with a given committed date provided as agreed to with the regulators in such a hypothetical scenario. Again, I want to emphasize that's just my prediction of what I think the CMA is going to do come next week with their provisional findings. So is that a painful price for Microsoft to pay? Of course yes, but that would be what they would have to do to obtain a mammoth-sized third party publisher that's multiple times larger than Zenimax in Activision-Blizzard-King.

Going directly up against Sony head-to-head in the high-performance console market is certainly intimidating, and I wouldn't blame other potential companies looking at a Microsoft withdrawal from that market to decide they don't want to battle Sony in that market, just as Sony gave up on the mobile, lower-powered handheld console market that Nintendo has a stone-cold lock in practically, with their last handheld being the PlayStation Vita, released in 2011. So yeah, under my prediction, if that's what the CMA + European Commission + FTC decide to go with as a major structural remedy, there's a high chance that we won't see another direct competitor to PlayStation in the high-performance console market for another 10-15 years.

Is that a terrible thing to see happen, no more Xbox and only PlayStation and Nintendo in their respective market segments for video game console market? It's certainly a controversial question I'd imagine to even posit on a video game forum website, but honestly, after seeing how well PlayStation 5 consoles sales performance were this past quarter in the crucial holiday period in the United States (Xbox's best region), I'm not sure there's any stopping PlayStation at this point from simply grabbing so much marketshare for the 9th console generation that by 2027-2028, and that they will have increased their marketshare so much globally that they'll just be considered practically invincible in the high-performance console market.

Personally I don't see regulators forcing MS to divest Xbox out of Microsoft, that's probably a step too drastic IMO especially if it'd probably spell the end of the brand, effectively.

Which is why I'm more on the "spin COD out into its own entity" train. Just spin it off as The COD Company, allot the ABK teams needed into that company, have them operate as their own entity and MS retains partial ownership. That at least resolves things with Sony's concerns, and MS still gets to keep the other ABK IPs (Crash, Spyro, Tony Hawk, Guitar Hero, Candy Crush etc.).

It doesn't resolve the issues Apple, Google, Amazon, Nvidia etc. have, though and those basically revolve around Game Pass & xCloud. For those, does Microsoft make Game Pass its own division (IIRC currently it's a part of the Xbox division) alongside xCloud? Do they just accept the licensing fee they'd have to pay to Apple, Google etc. for the app on their platforms, or try waiving that for a rev share model? Technically speaking I think the licensing fee would be cheaper in the long-run than a rev share model, although they have to pay the amount up-front.

What if part of the issue with Game Pass/xCloud on Apple, etc. platforms is more to do with whatever licensing fee MS has companies like Apple pay for iTunes on Windows? If MS waives those sorts of fees, does that in turn allow Apple, Google etc. to waive theirs? I did a quick look and it seems the cost for a Developer license on Windows is $99 for companies, single-time payment. If MS has a case where, their Windows fee is significantly lower than that which Apple, Google etc. charge for apps on their platforms, then maybe MS argues that to regulators?

Though from what I understand MS simply doesn't want to pay any licensing fees to Apple, Google, etc. for Game Pass on their app store and I don't see how that specific argument works out for them. Especially considering that, while companies like Apple and Google do sell their phones at big profit margins, only a small portion of users actually acquire their phones that way. It seems the majority go through cellular providers to get those and companies like Apple probably only get a small portion of the money from those subscriptions (or do they just sell the phones upfront to the service providers?). So they can theoretically argue that they subsidize the bulk of their hardware to service providers and rely on the cuts from apps in their stores to sustain their business models.
 
For 10 years?

I see it as a Minecraft thing, continuously being renegotiated.

Realistically unless something real drastic happens, I don't see any reason why they would have something on xyz platforms for 10 years then suddenly yank it away on the 11th. Who knows what the state of the console industry will be in 10 years from now. Maybe we'll finally have that mythic 1-console-future.
 
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MS is not removing CoD from the Sony platforms, there has been enough backlash and enough assurances from them on the matter already that we can put that to bed. This isn't something that can be correlated to the "case by case basis" Bethesda statement, as they have specifically said CoD will stay by name.

For a period …

Why should MS get to determine that period when the status quo is perfectly adequate.

The FTC itself has said, they don't have the resources to police post acquisition arrangements, and that they are risk averse.

A deal of this magnitude in the gaming industry is a major risk to market sustainability, and the various "deals" are unenforceable in practice post acquisition.
 
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We're talking about CoD specifically. Namely, new CoD games, not watered down ports of 2 gen old ones.

Nintendo hasn't seen one of those for a while and there wasn't any communication from ABK proper about remedying that any time soon.

Though it was one of the first talking points after the announcement of the acquisition all the way back in Feb that MS intends to bring CoD back to Switch.
You think only ms can bring back CoD on the Switch? Do you honestly think ABK would turn Nintendo down on a CoD port if Nintendo went and asked ABK for one?
 
You think only ms can bring back CoD on the Switch? Do you honestly think ABK would turn Nintendo down on a CoD port if Nintendo went and asked ABK for one?

None of us know whether Nintendo or Activision have approached the other with offers of bringing CoD to Nintendo platforms. We can't comment on a realistic reason for why it hasn't happened this generation so far. I'm only pointing out the statements from various people at MS who have claimed/pledged/promised to bring CoD to Nintendo platforms.
 
I see it as a Minecraft thing, continuously being renegotiated.

Realistically unless something real drastic happens, I don't see any reason why they would have something on xyz platforms for 10 years then suddenly yank it away on the 11th. Who knows what the state of the console industry will be in 10 years from now. Maybe we'll finally have that mythic 1-console-future.

I highly doubt 2/3 would stop making consoles. And I don't see even 1/3 doing that unless the results are disastrous.
 
No, that would be them trying to "organically" grow, which takes a long time, what they are trying to do is as capitalistic as it gets.

They have the money because they are a remarkably successful publicly traded company, and they want to spend those earnings on further growing their business by purchasing another company that is open to a deal. This is not a hostile takeover. Its standard practice in a "open" market. For government agencies to intervene and prevent the open market from functioning freely is the opposite of capitalism, I'm sure you know what that is.

Thinking of xbox and Microsoft as two separate entities? You are fooling yourself.

Unregulated acquisitions have reduced consumer rights in other markets. It is exactly why the FTC came into existence and why it has the power now to regulate such activities.

While both MS and ABK may be willing, the remit of the FTC is to represent consumer interests through maintaining healthy competitive markets.

The FTC isn't opposed to monopolies forming, high costs or even aggressive growth moves if those come about through innovation and consumer acceptance.

But acquisitions and mergers are exactly why the FTC exists - in the past, those have led to a reduction in quality, innovation and choice for consumers.
 
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Minecraft isn't constantly renegotiated though? It just exists on PlayStation platforms - Sony are happy to host, Microsoft are happy to continue providing the game.

Right, MS can just as well yank that away from Sony platforms if they want to, they own the IP and studio making the game.

But they don't because of that understanding. I see the same happening here but of course that is 1/ if the deal gets approved 2/ a 10 year look into the future.
 
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This is based on the metaverse comments by Kotick at the time of the acquisition being mixed up with Metas metaverse.

Virtual reality doesn't necessarily mean a headset here I don't think but virtual worlds:




How do you know they aren't working closely or something failed? What did they fail on?

When the FTC said Microsoft lied to the EU about Bethesda, the FTC were hoping that they'd go with it. Immediately they said the FTC was wrong, they weren't misled.
 
When the FTC said Microsoft lied to the EU about Bethesda, the FTC were hoping that they'd go with it. Immediately they said the FTC was wrong, they weren't misled.
The EC responded to reporters saying that it made no commitments with MS regarding the Zenimax deal because some people thought that they had turned back on a commitment. The EC made no comment on whether it agrees that Microsoft didn't stay true to its assurances though.

This isn't the EU backstabbing the FTC. They very likely communicate with the FTC and work closely.

 
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Right, MS can just as well yank that away from Sony platforms if they want to, they own the IP and studio making the game.

But they don't because of that understanding. I see the same happening here but of course that is 1/ if the deal gets approved 2/ a 10 year look into the future.

It's a bit difficult to remove something that already exists. But future content like a PS5 update or DLC can be kept from Sonys platform. Although I haven't seen them do that yet. Still wondering if Minecraft will be updated for current gen systems.
 
Right, MS can just as well yank that away from Sony platforms if they want to, they own the IP and studio making the game.

But they don't because of that understanding. I see the same happening here but of course that is 1/ if the deal gets approved 2/ a 10 year look into the future.
I don't think we know the deals made behind the Minecraft purchase, it might have been forced upon them to continue supporting PlayStation.
 
I don't think we know the deals made behind the Minecraft purchase, it might have been forced upon them to continue supporting PlayStation.

If there ever was any such clause, I certainly can't find anything about it online. If it is and I can't find it, that's on me.

I can, however, see that from the very press statement of them buying Minecraft/Mojang, they pledged support to continue the game for multiple platforms. Which shows you that they're pretty good on keeping their word when making statements like this.

Microsoft plans to continue to make "Minecraft" available across all the platforms on which it is available today: PC, iOS, Android, Xbox and PlayStation.

"'Minecraft' is one of the most popular franchises of all time," said Phil Spencer, head of Xbox. "We are going to maintain 'Minecraft' and its community in all the ways people love today, with a commitment to nurture and grow it long into the future."

 
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The open market is trying to correct itself with this deal, but unfortunately it isn't as open as it should be so there is resistance to the balancing act.
Exactly. I found ironic that such a convinced defense of the free market involved statal organizations intervening the free market. 😂
 
If there ever was any such clause, I certainly can't find anything about it online. If it is and I can't find it, that's on me.

I can, however, see that from the very press statement of them buying Minecraft/Mojang, they pledged support to continue the game for multiple platforms. Which shows you that they're pretty good on keeping their word when making statements like this.



I don't think it was made public.
 
Unregulated acquisitions have reduced consumer rights in other markets. It is exactly why the FTC came into existence and why it has the power now to regulate such activities.

While both MS and ABK may be willing, the remit of the FTC is to represent consumer interests through maintaining healthy competitive markets.

The FTC isn't opposed to monopolies forming, high costs or even aggressive growth moves if those come about through innovation and consumer acceptance.

But acquisitions and mergers are exactly why the FTC exists - in the past, those have led to a reduction in quality, innovation and choice for consumers.
Xbox fanboys doesn't understand the day this deal goes through gamepass price will skyrocket. Business is not charity and consumers will pay this bill.
 
Latest rumor from my uncle at Nintendo is that when this deal goes through, Microsoft will withhold all Acti/Bliz/King titles from all platforms, including xbox.
Apparently Phil has built an IP bunker and where he intends to secure all acquired IP and has been observed sitting in there crouched on his haunches mumbling "my precious" or words to that effect.
 
Xbox fanboys doesn't understand the day this deal goes through gamepass price will skyrocket. Business is not charity and consumers will pay this bill.
Prices are about getting what you pay for. As long as Game Pass offers value at its price point then it's a good deal. I suspect this is how most people view subs.
 
Prices are about getting what you pay for. As long as Game Pass offers value at its price point then it's a good deal. I suspect this is how most people view subs.
What if I don't want to pay more because they want to add CoD? ABK has no value to me so there's no acceptable price rise. I like it as it is now.
 
No, MS isn't involved in that. As a reminder, they cannot intervene in ABK's operations at all until the acquisition closes. That would be illega.

I think the promise that MS will make it easy to form a Union gives incentive for ABK management to make it as difficult as possible for the employees now. The employees have been working to unionize for some time now and been dealing with management's resistance too. As soon as MS decided to use this issue for virtue points, they gave all those ABK executives looking for a huge payout yet another reason to keep stonewalling the effort to unionize at ABK.
 
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No, that would be them trying to "organically" grow, which takes a long time, what they are trying to do is as capitalistic as it gets.

They have the money because they are a remarkably successful publicly traded company, and they want to spend those earnings on further growing their business by purchasing another company that is open to a deal. This is not a hostile takeover. Its standard practice in a "open" market. For government agencies to intervene and prevent the open market from functioning freely is the opposite of capitalism, I'm sure you know what that is.

Thinking of xbox and Microsoft as two separate entities? You are fooling yourself.

They have been in console market for 2 decades now. In fact in video games business even before that if we consider PC market. It is not as if they are new kid on the block or do not have any talent and therefore need to purchase the best companies. They already have more studious than their competitors and IMO there is enough talent in them. It is simply poor managment that they underpeform so much. There is no business for them to purchase a huge company like Activison who make multiplats. They can easily buy the marketing deal or so if they want 🤷‍♂️
 
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What if I don't want to pay more because they want to add CoD? ABK has no value to me so there's no acceptable price rise. I like it as it is now.
There are pros and cons to everything, cant please everyone. It would be on MS to find the ideal price which is both low enough for continued growth while being high enough be profitable.
 
The alternative you propose may also end up having MS leaving the video game market. It's a distinct possibility and one that MS has considered not so long ago. Big corporations are prone to take drastic measures very quickly. In mi opinion, after the merger Sony will still be the leading actor in the market by a wide margin, and it's output will probably increase in quality and numbers. Without the merger, I have my doubts MS will stick around for next generation.

It isn't exactly the open market correcting itself when Xbox takes its parent company's money to buy the biggest independent publishers only to remove games from their competitor's platform.

A true 'balancing act' would have been Xbox investing in new games, studio setups, and expansion of teams to produce more Xbox games and add to the industry.
Microsoft and Sony being forced to spend billions acquiring studios instead of funding games is sad to see.
 
It isn't exactly the open market correcting itself when Xbox takes its parent company's money to buy the biggest independent publishers only to remove games from their competitor's platform.

A true 'balancing act' would have been Xbox investing in new games, studio setups, and expansion of teams to produce more Xbox games and add to the industry.
And that's what is happening, buying studios means new games, expansions for Xbox games. None of the acquired studios have released exclusive games that were legacy IP except Forza Horizon. The bulk of PS Studios are made of acquisitions, only Sega and Nintendo did expansion by themselves.
 
Xbox fanboys doesn't understand the day this deal goes through gamepass price will skyrocket. Business is not charity and consumers will pay this bill.
Those price were going to skyrocket without this deal.
$15 is too cheap for gamepass with day1 games.
 
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Exactly. And the Bungie acquisition is all the more reason for Sony to balk at Microsoft's crumb offerings with the ActiBlizz deal

Both companies go through a large acquisition at the same time. One fully committed in every way to maintaining the acquired company's multiplatform status and community. The other limiting themselves to a time period only, on one franchise, which they've moved the goalposts on twice now.

So yeah Sony has every right to call out MS's actions. What was the phrase "inadequate on many levels".
You really think Bungie's new IP will be coming out on Xbox consoles?

Always thought those comments meant kept support with current ips and future releases on Playstation and PC.
 
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You really think Bungie's new IP will be coming out on Xbox consoles?

Always thought those comments meant kept support with current ips and future releases on Playstation and PC.
Q. Bungie has future games in development, will they now become PlayStation exclusives?
No. We want the worlds we are creating to extend to anywhere people play games. We will continue to be self-published, creatively independent, and we will continue to drive one, unified Bungie community.

https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/50989
 
Q. Bungie has future games in development, will they now become PlayStation exclusives?
No. We want the worlds we are creating to extend to anywhere people play games. We will continue to be self-published, creatively independent, and we will continue to drive one, unified Bungie community.

https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/50989
Eh. Sony pays millions of dollars to bar games from competitors services and systems. They didn't spend $3b to make 3rd party games, just like MS didn't spent $7b on Bethesda so you could play ES6 on the PS5.
 
Eh. Sony pays millions of dollars to bar games from competitors services and systems. They didn't spend $3b to make 3rd party games, just like MS didn't spent $7b on Bethesda so you could play ES6 on the PS5.

Well they did say they wanted Bungie for support work. It's possible that Bungie won't produce any playstation exclusives but they can still assist the developers that make them.

We have to wait and see what happens.
 
I guess we are back to square one then.
What Is Happening Digital Art GIF by Robert Ek
 
Eh. Sony pays millions of dollars to bar games from competitors services and systems. They didn't spend $3b to make 3rd party games, just like MS didn't spent $7b on Bethesda so you could play ES6 on the PS5.

Sony can continue to money hat games for PlayStation while allowing Bungie to operate independently and make games for Xbox. Just like Microsoft can continue to make Minecraft games for PlayStation and yet money hat games for Xbox.
 
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Eh. Sony pays millions of dollars to bar games from competitors services and systems. They didn't spend $3b to make 3rd party games, just like MS didn't spent $7b on Bethesda so you could play ES6 on the PS5.
But they literally did

Bungie is not part of Playstation, they are as independent as they can be while still being owned by Sony

They were set up within the structure on the same level as PS Studios and SIE Publishing, rather than under the PS Studios banner like all other first party. They also

j3iTfpb.jpg



They are specifically an independent subsidiary with their own board of directors

After the deal closes, Bungie will be "an independent subsidiary" of SIE run by a board of directors consisting of current CEO and chairman Pete Parsons and the rest of the studio's current management team.
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/sony-buying-bungie-for-usd3-6-billion

Will their games run best and have exclusive content for Playstation though? Undoubtedly

Will they be able to publish wherever they choose? Yes they have been set up in a way that allows that

Could Sony close that off and just make all future games exclusive? Unlikely but not impossible and would require buy in from Bungie themselves. The decisions made in regards to COD may force Sony down that path if they need a competitor
 
No, that would be them trying to "organically" grow, which takes a long time, what they are trying to do is as capitalistic as it gets.

They have the money because they are a remarkably successful publicly traded company, and they want to spend those earnings on further growing their business by purchasing another company that is open to a deal. This is not a hostile takeover. Its standard practice in a "open" market. For government agencies to intervene and prevent the open market from functioning freely is the opposite of capitalism, I'm sure you know what that is.

The "open market" does not function "freely" in the US or Europe and this is not the "opposite of capitalism". If this were the "opposite of capitalism" then these companies would not exist at all. Pointing to the extremes is a useless argument in these circumstances as it doesn't reflect the reality of the situation where capitalists are able to make money within the boundaries put in place by government regulations.
 
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