Ass of Can Whooping
Member
On what grounds? And don't you dare use the word market leader lmao
Microsoft / Activision Deal Approval Watch |OT| (MS/ABK close)
- Status
On what grounds? And don't you dare use the word market leader lmao
feynoob
Banned
Because this is the largest deal in the gaming history.
If this deal gets approved, everything is on the table.
Before no one had any reason to spend that much money.
Dick Jones
Banned
Xbox have conditioned its gamers to wait for Gamepass. Sony hasn't. Why is it the case there are more players and games sold on Day 1 on Playstation than on Xbox with Day 1 Gamepass?
Ar¢tos
Member
You clearly underestimate the ability some people in this forum have to bend reality. They can bend it so much it can lick its own ass.
Chukhopops
Member
Man I wish someone would have used that logic in court, trying to argue the « removal » of Redfall.
Sadly it won't happen…
Football is an essential input in Europe, massively more so than COD. Not to mention they're market leaders, have no day one service like Gamepass and have a long history of exclusivity focus.
When you consider how exclusivity deals work for player and club licenses (meaning competitors can't even develop their own games that can reasonably compete), even a 10 year deal would likely not suffice.
You'd be talking perpetual multiplatform support.
Expect also reasonably long access remedy periods for Apex Legends.
Of course, I don't expect that much pushback for DICE and Battlefield.
Not sure how this makes sense if we're talking about first party games.
Of course people will play games on the subscription service they paid for
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feynoob
Banned
More userbase generally means more sales.
If both platforms had the same userbase, their sales would have been similar. So your example is not fair.
Gamepass just helps MS close that gap for them, since users will spend $180 a year on their service, compared to just buying a game from their service.
We know that MS and Sony take 30% cut. That means every 60$ purchase, they get $18. Subscription like gamepass would generate them more money that way, compared to selling a lot of 3rd party games on their platform.
The more gamepass/Sub users they have, the more money they can make yearly.
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Banjo64
cumsessed
I'm not involving myself in acquisition wars, I actually think that the status quo will stay as is and don't foresee Google, Apple, Tencent etc making huge acquisitions (unless they only view themselves as custodians, and aren't acquiring to enter the console wars). The time for massive acquisitions was during the peak of Covid when it was a buyers market.
That being said there's no chance a game like Apex Legends would cause a foreclosure concern when Microsoft have access to ABK/Halo/Gears/Doom etc.
You are correct though that EA Sports FC would be scrutinised but I fail to see how that would stop the deal in a world where MS have been allowed to acquire ABK (with their existing infrastructure, brand recognition and catalogue of shooter games). We'd probably see the same song and dance as we have here where Sony would have to promise to release the game everywhere for a set time.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
Because there is twice and many PlayStations sold than Xbox?
Dick Jones
Banned
The proportion is still not the same as you well know. The PS5 had about 30% of non PS4 owners when Day 1 Gamepass was a thing. Your argument doesn't hold much water. Sales on Xbox have cratered as there is a I'll wait for Xbox. Diablo 4 pre order and sales on Xbox will collapse as it will be on Gamepass.The Fves were doing damage control earlier this week. People generally play or buy when the game releases and if not they forget about them.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Yeah I agree that Football would be enough to stop it, assuming they wouldn't be willing to go through divestiture. Sort that out and it shouldn't have issues. No reason Apex would need a access remedy period either.
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feynoob
Banned
Sony has more userbase compared to Xbox. Markets like Europe and Japan have more PS dominant, while Xbox is weak there.
But the biggest hurdle is FTC/CMA market definition. Since Nintendo isn't in that category, it will be a bad look for Sony.
Japan would 100% block that deal because of it.
aries_71
Junior Member
True. I've personally never met a European PS gamer that doesn't play FIFA/COD. Most of those gamers don't even know or care about 1st party Sony games. Football is absolutely huge here.
feynoob
Banned
You know that PS4 is still available right? Unless the game is next gen, PS4 will still help PS sales.
Then you have to consider PS users that own XBS/X. That also affects the sale ratio.
Also Loud people in the internet isn't the best measure for this case. There are a lot of Xbox users that are not subbed to gamepass. And people who Sub to gamepass still buy those games.
Well honestly speaking looking at the uturn from the regulators its back to reality for people thinking Microsoft will face any real opposition from these regulatory bodies. They have too much pull and too many resources for the courts to truly regulate them...honestly its kind of embarrassing how quickly they went from divesting or nothing to we see no problem here at all
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Sony were dealt a big blow here but the bigger issue is this basically gave Microsoft the go-ahead to go gungho. They have no opposition now before they were holding back because they were cautious regarding the regulatory bodies, but now they have the green light. They basically bought the biggest publisher in the world at an overinflated price which no competitor can hope to match and the regulators basically said this is healthy for competition. So essentially its open season now in Microsofts mind they can basically buy any of the major multiplatform publishers/studios and it wouldnt be much since the precedant has been set. If buying the biggest publisher right after zenimax is healthy for competition why would there be any problem when they buy others. Sony cant really compete in this arms race sadly since they cant afford to match bids here nor can they afford the giant publishers.
Lets say Sony are forced to contemplate buying Ea for example they have a market cap of 30+billion but will be forced to buy at at inflated price close to 40 which just isnt possible for them, meanwhile funnily enough the only ones in the market who can do so from now on are Microsoft so goodluck to Sony because sadly I just dont see them being able to keepup longterm with Ea/Activision/Taketwo games on gamepass. Imagine if Microsoft buys taketwo tommorow can you say with a straightface thats no problem and Sony can compete?
Im not a fanboy and enjoy games from all three of the console makers but people celebrating this as a short term win better keep that same energy after a generation when Microsoft has most major mainstream games locked behind gamepass where they start reving up the prices.
.Sony were dealt a big blow here but the bigger issue is this basically gave Microsoft the go-ahead to go gungho. They have no opposition now before they were holding back because they were cautious regarding the regulatory bodies, but now they have the green light. They basically bought the biggest publisher in the world at an overinflated price which no competitor can hope to match and the regulators basically said this is healthy for competition. So essentially its open season now in Microsofts mind they can basically buy any of the major multiplatform publishers/studios and it wouldnt be much since the precedant has been set. If buying the biggest publisher right after zenimax is healthy for competition why would there be any problem when they buy others. Sony cant really compete in this arms race sadly since they cant afford to match bids here nor can they afford the giant publishers.
Lets say Sony are forced to contemplate buying Ea for example they have a market cap of 30+billion but will be forced to buy at at inflated price close to 40 which just isnt possible for them, meanwhile funnily enough the only ones in the market who can do so from now on are Microsoft so goodluck to Sony because sadly I just dont see them being able to keepup longterm with Ea/Activision/Taketwo games on gamepass. Imagine if Microsoft buys taketwo tommorow can you say with a straightface thats no problem and Sony can compete?
Im not a fanboy and enjoy games from all three of the console makers but people celebrating this as a short term win better keep that same energy after a generation when Microsoft has most major mainstream games locked behind gamepass where they start reving up the prices.
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Ass of Can Whooping
Member
I forsee the CMA not finding any SLC in their provision findings for EA, and then doing a 180 like the treacherous scum they are
Dick Jones
Banned
And the PS5 is selling more than the Xbox Series even though Gamepass and Day 1 Gamepass existed before this gen. Why is that?
feynoob
Banned
Blame FTC for that.
They took Nintendo from the equation, which is resulted in this fiasco.
Now Sony is in big trouble because of it. It won't be PS vs Xbox vs Nintendo anymore. It will just be PS vs Xbox, and that is not good news for Sony future big acquisition.
aries_71
Junior Member
PlayStation brand is huge. I just walked out of an electronic store here in Europe. The gaming section was plastered with PlayStation merchandizing. PS5 boxes were on display, together with controller and PS5 videogame boxes. Xbox was nowhere to be seen. Add to this very frequent TV and Radio commercials, adds in the bus stops, ads in the underground stations. You guys fail to understand how huge and pervasive the brand is in Europe.
Dick Jones
Banned
Why is current gen more Sony than Xbox? Gamepass existed before the start. There is no need to put on PS+ Extra as the needle hasn't moved and is unlikely to move for several years. By then we will have Amazon and Tencent reducing the number of large third parties. People who sub to Gamepass buy the game while it's on Gamepass? Point out these fucking idiots.
Dick Jones
Banned
I'm Irish lad. You're also backing up what I'm saying.
feynoob
Banned
Because past gen is still alive and haven't gone anywhere.
You can't calculate current gen, and leave Xbox one(55m-60m) and PS4(116m). Those users still need to buy new gen consoles.
As for gamepass, it's both PC and Xbox, not just Xbox itself. It doesn't have most 3rd party games. Big games don't drop day1 on the service, and bigger publishers haven't put their games on the service after 1 year (looking at you cyberpunk 2077), while Sony managed to get Valhalla on their service with little bit userbase.
Sony has more pull for these type of games for their service unlike Xbox, due to their userbase. So I doubt Xbox users would sit down on those big games in hope of gamepass.
You are looking at me. I had gamepass, still I managed to buy my games. People like to buy their games and won't wait for a sub drop. If you want a game, you will naturally buy it.
Don't let these voices on the internet make you believe that people don't buy their games.
They are first in the line to buy games like dead space remake, even though EA would put that game on EA play after certain months.
Clintizzle
Lord of Edge.
Let me put on my Microsoft hat for a second. Once they get a steady flow of good games coming out, you're going to see a lot of "Play early" or "Play first" on Xbox type deals popping up. I believe Forza Horizon and Halo Infinite did this and we're very successful. These play early unlocks are going to be around half the price of the full game and give you access to Premium features too. So some initial revenue + GamePass subscription revenue is going to be good for Xbox.
Idk much about business and what is profitable but I think this is probably what Microsoft are cooking up. None of this is for the gamers, it all for that $$$.
aries_71
Junior Member
In fact I was backing it.
I Like Killzone 2, too, but Horizon is just a better designed game all around.
Topher
Identifies as young
This sort of describes the paradox that is Xbox and PlayStation as competitors to me. We've got Xbox with really shitty marketing but aggressive PR and we've got PlayStation with aggressive marketing and damn near non-existent PR. The crazy thing is Microsoft is a two trillion dollar company and could out-market Sony every day of the year, but instead they just slashed their marketing budget. I don't get it.
feynoob
Banned
Because MS fucked up Xbox one.
If MS didn't have any fuck up during Xbox one, and invested more on their first party studios, they would have been stronger brand by now.
Imagine a competent Xbox one after x360.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
Because Sony have tied up a lot of deals like call of duty advertising and a lot of extra content for games on PS? Maybe it's that. Remember Microsoft coming off a shit show with the Xbox one last gen to so that isn't helping.
Banjo64
cumsessed
The Xbox One disaster was merely a continuation of the second half of the 360's life.
Calverz
Member
All Microsoft had to do was just carry on where the 360 left off. They didn't need to take the big risks with focus on Kinect and tv. Complete fuck up. They obviosuly seen the numbers of casuals using the tv apps etc on 360 and thought they saw an opportunity. They didn't look after their priority customer enough. Gamers.
Im not against a discounted price to pay the game as long as it means ownership.
Then the Gamepass subscription is now a discount to MS 1P and access to 3P content, some day 1.
Topher
Identifies as young
Yeah, I agree but Xbox One isn't stopping Microsoft from fixing their shitty marketing now. Sometimes it's like they are not even trying. I don't get it.
POKEYCLYDE
Member
I have like 30 more pages to go through. I am sick for 2 days and this revision is dropped, christ.
The CMA will accept behavioral remedies in a few instances, one of them, the one Microsoft will argue is that there are relevant customer benefits (RCB) that would disappear absent the merger. These RCBs would also have to outweigh any potential SLC concerns.
With the console SLC, this was hard to accept. Without the console SLC, it'll be easy.
Nvidia and the 2 smaller cloud gaming companies would have never gotten access to ABK games absent the merger. ABK's actions prior to this acquisition show that. It can be argued that cloud gaming rivals lose nothing if this acquisition goes through, but they will lose something if the acquisition is blocked.
This doesn't entirely stop the concerns around Microsoft's cloud gaming dominance and worry that having access to CoD will be such an advantage that no one can compete, but behavioral remedies should suffice.
I'm at 75/25 it's going to pass.
Interestingly enough if the reports are true that Microsoft's remedy package to the EC didn't focus on consoles, it could mean that Sony won't be able to sign the 10 year deal that's been offered to them. Microsoft's offer of parity was to squash any SLC. But if the main regulators don't view partial foreclosure (access to a mode) as damaging to competitors, I could see Microsoft making CoD on Xbox "The best place to play".
I expect to see news stories within the month about Sony signing the 10 year deal, or Sony complaining that Microsoft isn't offering the same deal anymore. (The latter being more likely to try and convince regulators Microsoft is not to be trusted.)
(Side note: Sony will probably announce a major acquisition by the end of summer, now that they see the writing on the wall that they won't be able to stop this acquisition, they'll want to make an acquisition while Microsoft is tied up and can't outbid them, if they were smart they would try for Capcom.. that is probably the biggest bang for their buck, though I'd personally want them to go for Square Enix.. get that company away from NFTs please)
The CMA will accept behavioral remedies in a few instances, one of them, the one Microsoft will argue is that there are relevant customer benefits (RCB) that would disappear absent the merger. These RCBs would also have to outweigh any potential SLC concerns.
With the console SLC, this was hard to accept. Without the console SLC, it'll be easy.
Nvidia and the 2 smaller cloud gaming companies would have never gotten access to ABK games absent the merger. ABK's actions prior to this acquisition show that. It can be argued that cloud gaming rivals lose nothing if this acquisition goes through, but they will lose something if the acquisition is blocked.
This doesn't entirely stop the concerns around Microsoft's cloud gaming dominance and worry that having access to CoD will be such an advantage that no one can compete, but behavioral remedies should suffice.
I'm at 75/25 it's going to pass.
Interestingly enough if the reports are true that Microsoft's remedy package to the EC didn't focus on consoles, it could mean that Sony won't be able to sign the 10 year deal that's been offered to them. Microsoft's offer of parity was to squash any SLC. But if the main regulators don't view partial foreclosure (access to a mode) as damaging to competitors, I could see Microsoft making CoD on Xbox "The best place to play".
I expect to see news stories within the month about Sony signing the 10 year deal, or Sony complaining that Microsoft isn't offering the same deal anymore. (The latter being more likely to try and convince regulators Microsoft is not to be trusted.)
(Side note: Sony will probably announce a major acquisition by the end of summer, now that they see the writing on the wall that they won't be able to stop this acquisition, they'll want to make an acquisition while Microsoft is tied up and can't outbid them, if they were smart they would try for Capcom.. that is probably the biggest bang for their buck, though I'd personally want them to go for Square Enix.. get that company away from NFTs please)
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Everytime the marketing deparment sends an email attachment to Phil I intercept and delete it
What exactly did you think the response to microsoft's move was going to be for you to be laughing?Suddenly all concerns for market concentration disappeared. Now it's all talk about Sony should buy this, Sony should buy that. Uncle Phil may take you word and tear the floor up.
This was always the next step, which is why a lot of us didn't want for microsoft to get this deal.
Personally I hope sony gets Rockstar games. I'd much rather sony got capcom and square enix since aside from sony, they're the two with the most games that I play, but I want Rockstar so Sony twists the knife on microsoft's neck asap. The sooner this cancerous company is out of videogame industry, the better we will all be.
MS see this guerilla marketing as an effective way of building their brand. When they talk about building their brand globally they talk about "building social leaders" in markets while firing their actual marketing teams:
https://www.purexbox.com/news/2021/...er_global_brand_over_the_next_couple_of_years
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feynoob
Banned
They lost so much grounds and are labeled as a console with no games, while their competitors is pumping out huge games years after years.
They are mentally broken at this point and don't really care about their console.
It's why they are 100% all in on xcloud and gamepass. They don't have to push themselves with subscription model, since they are good at it.
damiank
Member
Dude, wait for next wednesdayCan't wait to discover next Microsoft's acquisition. When this deal will close, I hope something of Japanese dev. maybe Sega?
Phil said that. The shopping isn't done.
Let's go !
Topher
Identifies as young
Suddenly all concerns for market concentration disappeared. Now it's all talk about Sony should buy this, Sony should buy that. Uncle Phil may take you word and tear the floor up.
You like generalizing, I get it, but there those of us who are not favorable towards any of this consolidation in the gaming industry, regardless of who it is. So no, not "all concerns" have disappeared.
Social leaders like colt eastwood? lol......that really just sounds like they want folks to advertise Xbox for free. Not sure that is how to grow a global brand though.
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feynoob
Banned
It was period of TVs and ads. For a big company like MS, it was a money opportunity for them at that time.
Later x360 showed their desire for entertainment like kinetics. Stopped investing in their first party studios and made inferior device.
But like always, things are not that simple. That simple mistake took them out of the competition and made them lose COD marketing, which have Sony huge push in the US.
phil_t98
#SonyToo
Agree with that, you see PlayStation everywhere and a lot of games have marketing deals for PS. One area Microsoft needs to catch up big time is marketing
suspicious mind
Member
Stop that take 2 nonsense. Even if sony wanted too and could it would get blocked.
Kinda funny that some of these fanboys loved yelling MARKET LEADER, TOTAL DOMINATION XBOX NO GAMES, NOBODY WANTS AN XBOX....
Well that shit has consequences you know.
Kinda funny that some of these fanboys loved yelling MARKET LEADER, TOTAL DOMINATION XBOX NO GAMES, NOBODY WANTS AN XBOX....
Well that shit has consequences you know.
Smoke6
Member
COD ain't that big outside of consoles and definitely not on a Nintendo! I'd be more worried about how they're gonna recoup all that money if the games end up on game pass day 1? I bet they locked down all those back door $1-5 a year game pass deals and force y'all to pay full price including price increase and y'all won't pay it! Subs will drop and maybe a few people will defect over to MS just to play COD!
I don't think this is as big a deal against Sony as you might think! $70b and some and your more than likely not even on the biggest installer base console??? Yeah…
Banjo64
cumsessed
Oh look, another neo shill.
Majukun
Member
don't know the situation now, but gaming division is one of the most lucrative sector of sony, so much so that it actually helped the entire compamny recoup from blunders like the movie section in the past, they are NEVER gonna sell it.
and while i'm sure an exclusive cod would make things more balanced in the "console war", it will be nowhere near to push sony out of the market
you are doing a lot of head canon here...microsoft is not the kind of compamny that needs to immediately recoup from this kind of investment, they play the very long game because they can afford to.
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That's what I've been saying, Sony's Group real option (and best option imo) would be cashing it out by selling SIE to Amazon or Apple for 50-60B$ and reliving themselves of the headache of maintaining a platform that's vulnerable without the need to spend extra billions on it, and could buy Namco Bandai making it their venture into gaming as anime is becoming the Sony Group main pillar, it's literally a Win - Win situation
Not free but paying influencers like Colteastwood where the promotion seems like it's grassroots rather than spending money on billboards and TV ads.
An example of their attempt to build the brand globally through these 'social leaders'.
SixPin
Neo Member
The CMA in the provisional findings concluded that they believe that Activision would put their games on Cloud services in the next five years.
zapper
Member
if behavioral remedies were enough with the announced deals it would be even more incredible than yesterday's 180 on consoles. whether or not there are agreements in 10 years the gap between xloud and the others will be even wider.
cma could continue to ask for partial divestment (difficult reading yesterday's answer) or (I expect) agreements with other more important cloud managers than those announced (beyond nvidia).
on sony i don't think they can afford capcom, nor that capcom wants to sell (they are at their peak), i think they will continue with the studies, the next one will probably be deviation, maybe even ember lab. I would expect more investments in epic, kadokawa/from software, deals with major publishers like they have done so far, a chat with google about the cloud. the only big acquisition in sight would be square enix, but does it make sense?
the worst news from this story is that they will have to regroup well and maybe change some strategies, someone could pay the consequences (psvr2)
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