Support NeoGAF

[PaintTinJr]

What does Gamepass dying give you?

Death of an anti-trust strategy to bleed the poorer companies that deliver actual games out.

 

[PaintTinJr]

I genuinely feel really bad for dude.

I have memories of reading about his work situation back in the thread and his current rants read like he's convinced colleagues and customers to get the free ATVI money and is now professionally compromised with others losing money like he is, if the deal is buried, in addition to being currently dead.

 

[Three]

MGS is defined as a set library where the company is paying for a period of access. This excludes Games with Gold and PS+ Essential.

 

[Topher]

Someday maybe corporate PR speak from MS is the basis for government regulatory decisions now is it?

Cloud does not equal cloud gaming. One is a highly profitable growth industry the other is a niche nothing industry no one is willing to pay for on its own.

Sony can just leverage AWS, or another cloud provider, no need to build anything like MS with Azure.

Hilarious how some here keep trying to make this about Sony.

 

[noise36]

Canot wait for gamepass to die ... this cheap/free gaming delusional beggar crowd can go to the next genius promising free shit at the cost of their freedom of choice.. people never learn, is amazingly stupid.

No one said cheap or free except you! Gamepass lowers the cost of entry and expands the ways you can play games with PC and cloud support. More gamers playing more games!

 

[Banjo64]

I have memories of reading about his work situation back in the thread and his current rants read like he's convinced colleagues and customers to get the free ATVI money and is now professionally compromised with others losing money like he is, if the deal is buried, in addition to being currently dead.

Imagine following sage's advice on anything

 

[Bojanglez]

Someday maybe corporate PR speak from MS is the basis for government regulatory decisions now is it?

Cloud does not equal cloud gaming. One is a highly profitable growth industry the other is a niche nothing industry no one is willing to pay for on its own.

Sony can just leverage AWS, or another cloud provider, no need to build anything like MS with Azure.

What about companies that aren't Sony and don't have their own hardware that could theoretically be mounted in a server farm? People should be able to build cloud solutions using any cloud vendor using standard PC technology, unfortunately in games MS has a monopoly on PC gaming in the OS space and therefore could make using alternative cloud solutions expensive or even not possibly with it's Windows licensing.

There is a whole other case going on with the EU about MS and their aggressive bundling of Azure with Windows and stifling open, multi cloud solutions. This whole thing could be seen as part of that wider picture.

 

[ToTTenTranz]

I have memories of reading about his work situation back in the thread and his current rants read like he's convinced colleagues and customers to get the free ATVI money and is now professionally compromised with others losing money like he is, if the deal is buried, in addition to being currently dead.

Damn, I did make fun of him burying so much money on ATVI shares some months ago. But like all moderate approaches to gambling I assumed he was spending money he could live without.

I hope he lands on his feet.

 

[noise36]

Hilarious how some here keep trying to make this about Sony.

How is it possible to talk about the console gaming industry without talking about the market leader?

Its like talking about the mobile gaming industry without talking about Apple. Pointless!

 

[Sanepar]

Well this is what they will want to tell us now, which is highly convenient when they've been spending so much time talking up their cloud offering (along with a few people here who shall not be named).

The reality is that things are indeed progressing in that space, it's probably the area that is being most invested in from an R&D perspective and Nvidia pretty much have a proof of concept out there that proves it can work under the right circumstances (proximity to the server, Internet connection, etc).

I'm not a fan and probably never will be. The most I'm willing to tolerate is in-home streaming but even that I'll avoid unless I have no other option (hence I now have 3 PC's + a steam deck + a PS5 spread across my home). But we need to remember, most people who post on a forum like this are hardcore gamers and will be more sensitive to things like latency and lag than public joe will be. We make up the minority of these companies' customers and public joe makes up the majority. The moment it catches on with public joe, that's the direction we are heading in and we are powerless to fight it, just as we have been with mobile gaming, GAAS and microtracsations/lootboxes.

Everything Microsoft are doing now is with both eyes firmly on the future. You don't propose to invest over 70 billion dollors on a division that has failed to make you money over the course of it's existence (net) unless you see a future where those investments will turn out to be highly lucrative (they also don't throw their toys out the pram in the way they have done since the CMA decision if it wasn't an imperative step from a strategic standpoint). How exactly do they envisage things becoming lucrative? They've been telling us this whole time - it's not console, it's cloud.

If given the opportunity to they will force us in that direction as quickly as they feasibly can. Hence when Phil Spencer mentioned "the acquisition of Activision Blizzard is meant to speed up Microsoft's gaming plans", that's very likely exactly what he was referring to. If we are forced in that direction then outside of owning what will become increasingly expensive and niche gaming hardware (because consoles will no longer be produced at scale, if at all) we will have very little choice but to accept it.

I take a very dim view of everything related to cloud because when I see these huge mega-corporations getting as excited and enthusiastic as they are about things like this it only ever spells trouble for us.

The day cloud will be the only option the day i'm done with games. Since i'm 40. 50 is a good age to quit.

I don't want be part of a market for rent games to run on a cloud.

 

[ulantan]

Hilarious how some here keep trying to make this about Sony.

Microsoft put out no messaging about how they need to be the biggest in the cloud market. Idk know if they revise thier pr campaign, but console warring on a company level has appeared to be working against them.

 

[noise36]

What about companies that aren't Sony and don't have their own hardware that could theoretically be mounted in a server farm? People should be able to build cloud solutions using any cloud vendor using standard PC technology, unfortunately in games MS has a monopoly on PC gaming in the OS space and therefore could make using alternative cloud solutions expensive or even not possibly with it's Windows licensing.

If you use your imagination hard enough you can make up what ever you like.

 

[Topher]

How is it possible to talk about the console gaming industry without talking about the market leader?

Its like talking about the mobile gaming industry without talking about Apple. Pointless!

Has jack all to do with console gaming and you know it. This is entirely about cloud gaming.

If you use your imagination hard enough you can make up what ever you like. Clearly CMA agrees and has made up an industry that doesn't exist to stifle competition in an industry that does exist.

Cloud gaming doesn't exist as a market now? Are you serious?

 

[FrankWza]

MS won't get rid of their brand mascot. Not in the traditional way of sorts.

One day his collarless leather jacket will hang from the rafters.

 

[Banjo64]

noise36 said:
If you use your imagination hard enough you can make up what ever you like. Clearly CMA agrees and has made up an industry that doesn't exist to stifle competition in an industry that does exist.

Hope you're at least one of the ones on $200 an hour.

 

[noise36]

Cloud gaming doesn't exist as a market now? Are you serious?

That was a quick quote! I deleted that last part as couldn't be bothered.

The point I was making was that not enough people want to pay for it so it has to be bundled to create the market. It cant exist for long on its own because its not profitable.

 

[Bernardougf]

What does Gamepass dying give you?

Its a unsustainable choice in this industry, as it is today, only capable of existing loosing money under MS who can take the hit because its obvious they have a plan for it and its not give quality AAA content for cheap/free for ever. If you drank the kool-aid and believe in their speeches go for it, I dont, and dont want to see the future of gaming controlled by streaming services with cheaper quantity low quality content instead of the options we get today, even more if their plan as usual lead to an almost monopolistic business model.

There is nothing wrong with the game market as sony and nintendo continues to prove it, MS is trying to jump the shark, and I cant give two fucks about what their idea of the future for us is.

 

[Topher]

That was a quick quote! I deleted that last part as couldn't be bothered.

Because it was factually wrong.

The point I was making was that not enough people want to pay for it so it has to be bundled to create the market. It cant exist for long on its own because its not profitable.

The information given to CMA says there will be a lot of growth in cloud gaming in the future and future market conditions is the basis of their decision. Microsoft themselves have said in the past that their primary competition in gaming in the future is with cloud gaming. Hell, Microsoft was promoting cloud gaming heavily just last year to developers. Just because the service is bundled now doesn't mean it will remain that way. If cloud gaming grows as much as Microsoft has talked about, then there very well could be a stand alone service in the future.

Microsoft reveals Xbox Cloud Gaming has over 10 million players, as Stadia remains silent

Microsoft has announced that Xbox Cloud Gaming now has over 10 million players, just behind Nvidia GeForce Now.

9to5google.com

Microsoft CEO Pitches Xbox Cloud Gaming to Developers, Promising No Extra Coding

Microsoft's Xbox Cloud Gaming isn't just meant for the company's video game console, he noted. It also works on mobile phones and tablets.

www.cnet.com

 

[Bernardougf]

Death of an anti-trust strategy to bleed the poorer companies that deliver actual games out.

Its so painfully obvious that amazes me people cant see it, Sony is already posting losses in software sales even with record hardware sales. "Free" shit really is a powerfull hallucinogenic

 

[Topher]

Its so painfully obvious that amazes me people cant see it, Sony is already posting losses in software sales even with record hardware sales. "Free" shit is really a powerfull hallucinogenic

Losses in units, but increases in revenue.

 

[Sleepwalker]

Nvidia can't be touched right now in the GPU market, you think they going to fire Jen? Lmfao ok.

Jacket man decided to fire the consumers instead, making us take the fall by releasing overpriced gpus.

 

[IFireflyl]

Damn, I did make fun of him burying so much money on ATVI shares some months ago. But like all moderate approaches to gambling I assumed he was spending money he could live without.

I hope he lands on his feet.

I hope he loses his Xbox.

 

[Ar¢tos]

Its so painfully obvious that amazes me people cant see it, Sony is already posting losses in software sales even with record hardware sales. "Free" shit really is a powerfull hallucinogenic

If the "free on gamepass mentality" continues, eventually the whole gaming industry will turn into making games of this quality:

 

[POKEYCLYDE]

Its a unsustainable choice in this industry, as it is today, only capable of existing loosing money under MS who can take the hit because its obvious they have a plan for it and its not give quality AAA content for cheap/free for ever. If you drank the kool-aid and believe in their speeches go for it, I dont, and dont want to see the future of gaming controlled by streaming services with cheaper quantity low quality content instead of the options we get today, even more if their plan as usual lead to an almost monopolistic business model.

There is nothing wrong with the game market as sony and nintendo continues to prove it, MS is trying to jump the shark, and I cant give two fucks about what their idea of the future for us is.

Everyone can vote with their wallet.

I don't think it's an unsustainable business model, just one that requires a critical mass of subs. It's already profitable, but B2P is more profitable at the moment. As subscribers increase so will profits, and will probably surpass the B2P model. Quality nor quantity need be affected.

Gamepass isn't mandatory. So if quality/quantity are affected, anyone can switch up and buy a different console or stop subscribing and return to buying their games.

Your anger is really unjustified.

 

[Astray]

I wonder what would happen if someone
sneaks into @SenjutsuSage's house at night while he's sleeping and replace his series X console with a PS5.

Plot twist: they will find that he already owns one.

The maths makes no sense to keep Xbox running, but the second they cancel it, Windows' DirectX API is on borrowed time along with their alliance with Nvidia, and as shown in the provisional CMA reports, the API is what blocks competing OSes to take some of their +90% share of the PC gaming OS market, and weakens Linux offerings in the Cloud gaming space.

The revenue from Windows makes the - my guestimate - $1b-$2b loss per year loss from Xbox/xbox marketing in Bing search a rounding error for those running Microsoft, even if to the shareholders it would look like something to cut adrift. It isn't like Microsoft would even be able to explain that situation to shareholders as it would put on record the very actions they deny the FTC accusing them of in anti-trust litigation.

IMHO Xbox will remain while the threat of a PlayStation displacing all desktop/laptop Windows PC functionality for the average Joe - in their house with an under the TV box - remains.

The bolded part is exactly why DirectX development will still happen, Xbox existing or not. Unlike Xbox, Windows is a profitable service and a facilitator for all their other products, so anything that strengthens it will continue to be made.

 

[BattleScar]

I have memories of reading about his work situation back in the thread and his current rants read like he's convinced colleagues and customers to get the free ATVI money and is now professionally compromised with others losing money like he is, if the deal is buried, in addition to being currently dead.

Whats with this Microsoft shill obsession with leaving the UK market.
The UK market is Xbox's second biggest market.

And believe me, it will not look good at all to other countries and economic forums, that a company will exit their market if they don't like the regulatory decisions.
Why bother investing in and using Microsoft products, if they could abandon you as soon as you do something they don't like.

Fucking comical.

 

[demigod]

This whole concept of folks going off the rails and saying to exit the UK market over this deal getting torpedoed(and probably also by the EC this month) is insanity.

They've never been able to secure a foothold in the Japanese market, so now you want them to just pack up and go in the UK because it's sour grapes because you were told no?

Wow.

Delusional fanboys, we just went back in circles. This is worse than some fans saying Sony should drop CoD had it passed.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[Edmund]

The day cloud will be the only option the day i'm done with games. Since i'm 40. 50 is a good age to quit.

I don't want be part of a market for rent games to run on a cloud.

As a primarily fighting game player, getting matched with people on WiFi is already a nightmare to me. Cloud would make the fighting game genre straight up unplayable.

 

[DragonNCM]

Just give UK middle finger & go on with acquisition & block ACB games from gamepass & cloud & let users rage in their court

 

[Bojanglez]

If you use your imagination hard enough you can make up what ever you like.

Yeah. Build you own multi national cloud infrastructure, operating system and get developer support.... I'm sure MS would say 10 years is enough

 

[Banjo64]

Just give UK middle finger & go on with acquisition & block ACB games from gamepass & cloud & let users rage in their court

where is the part where they get a $19b fine?

 

[POKEYCLYDE]

Death of an anti-trust strategy to bleed the poorer companies that deliver actual games out.

Who are these poorer companies? Are there are examples of Gamepass negatively affecting a competitor's B2P sales?

Did God of War sell less because of Gamepass? Will Tears of the Kingdom sell less because of Gamepass? Or are you conflating the cannibalization of B2P sales of games on Gamepass with the industry at large?

Developers aren't forced to be on Gamepass, and they're compensated for being on Gamepass.

 

[Tomeru]

Who are these poorer companies? Are there are examples of Gamepass negatively affecting a competitor's B2P sales?

Did God of War sell less because of Gamepass? Will Tears of the Kingdom sell less because of Gamepass? Or are you conflating the cannibalization of B2P sales of games on Gamepass with the industry at large?

Developers aren't forced to be on Gamepass, and they're compensated for being on Gamepass.

The strategy of buying games instead of naking them youself.

 

[Three]

Who are these poorer companies? Are there are examples of Gamepass negatively affecting a competitor's B2P sales?

Did God of War sell less because of Gamepass? Will Tears of the Kingdom sell less because of Gamepass? Or are you conflating the cannibalization of B2P sales of games on Gamepass with the industry at large?

Developers aren't forced to be on Gamepass, and they're compensated for being on Gamepass.

That's a reductive way of looking at it. No artist was forced to be on spotify either but it doesn't mean sales didn't get affected by subscriptions and streaming regardless. The consumers go and play the other games they've got "for free" as part of the subscription and games do end up selling less overall. This may not affect the big players with massive mindeshare as much but it does lower sales of games over time including those that aren't on it.

 

[noise36]

The information given to CMA says there will be a lot of growth in cloud gaming in the future

Predicting the future? MS someday maybe PR and marketing speak is driving decision making at the CMA. Farcical!

If cloud gaming grows

So its gone from "there will be" to "if" ?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Predicting the future? MS someday maybe PR and marketing speak is driving decision making at the CMA. Farcical!

So its gone from "there will be" to "if" ?

It's based on MS's own data they provided to the CMA and their current cloud demographics.

Cry to MS.

 

[Topher]

Predicting the future? MS someday maybe PR and marketing speak is driving decision making at the CMA. Farcical!

Mergers this size have impact far into the future.

So its gone from "there will be" to "if" ?

Only if you purposely misread. I said "if". I am not those giving information to the CMA saying "there will be a lot of growth". Not surprised you conflated the two to manufacture yet another bullshit argument.

 

[Topher]

It's based on MS's own data they provided to the CMA and their current cloud demographics.

Cry to MS.

Yep. And if you think about it, every single regulation decision on a merger is essentially "predicting the future" as they are predicting what impact the transaction will have on the market.

 

[XesqueVara]

Because they literally thought that this will be passed easily -- with 0 concessions nonetheless.

https://www.neowin.net/news/microso...cquisition-to-go-through-without-concessions/

So in their minds, they were not gonna pay the $3 billion penalty.

I doubt they didn't know the risks of this deal failing, The amount of lawyers who worked on the Merger agreement is probably insane.
Still Tho thinks the idea of someone get fired over this is retarded.

 

[Bojanglez]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/05/01/activisions-uk-faces-hmrc-investigation/

Such great supporters of the UK economy

 

[Heisenberg007]

I doubt they didn't know the risks of this deal failing, The amount of lawyers who worked on the Merger agreement is probably insane.
Still Tho thinks the idea of someone get fired over this is retarded.

They obviously knew the risks of the deal failing -- they mentioned that ($3 billion penalty) in the contract. They just didn't think this deal would fail -- as evident by Satya's quote.

They had a very flawed understanding and expectation of how it's gonna go.

 

[Banjo64]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/05/01/activisions-uk-faces-hmrc-investigation/

Such great supporters of the UK economy

Trash company

 

[DJ12]

Trash company

Maybe when Activision and Microsoft meant the uk was closed for business it was because neither are paying their tax so thought the uk is doing charity work.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Whats with this Microsoft shill obsession with leaving the UK market.
The UK market is Xbox's second biggest market.

And believe me, it will not look good at all to other countries and economic forums, that a company will exit their market if they don't like the regulatory decisions.
Why bother investing in and using Microsoft products, if they could abandon you as soon as you do something they don't like.

Fucking comical.

It's simple.

Because the deal was blocked and "more people couldn't get access to more games, however, they want to play it," let's fuck up an entire market and userbase and take away their choices from them.

Makes total sense. /s

 

[Neofire]

Whats with this Microsoft shill obsession with leaving the UK market.
The UK market is Xbox's second biggest market.

And believe me, it will not look good at all to other countries and economic forums, that a company will exit their market if they don't like the regulatory decisions.
Why bother investing in and using Microsoft products, if they could abandon you as soon as you do something they don't like.

Fucking comical.

You didn't get the memo? Microsoft should be able to do whatever they want....whenever.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Whats with this Microsoft shill obsession with leaving the UK market.
The UK market is Xbox's second biggest market.

And believe me, it will not look good at all to other countries and economic forums, that a company will exit their market if they don't like the regulatory decisions.
Why bother investing in and using Microsoft products, if they could abandon you as soon as you do something they don't like.

Fucking comical.

It's all low IQ delusions. Fanaticism is a mental disorder.

 

[zedinen]

Hilarious how some here keep trying to make this about Sony.

Sony? This is about SIE.

PlayStation has always been one step ahead of Microsoft.

While Microsoft was wasting time with market shares in console gaming ...

SIE was raising concerns about cloud gaming,

using Phil Spencer words and Windows and Azure success against Microsoft, and positioning PS Plus as the only alternative to Microsoft dominance after Google Stadia death and Amazon Luna irrelevance.

SIE didn't take the bait (10-year deal) and the rest is history.

 

[SneakersSO]

I don't think it's an unsustainable business model, just one that requires a critical mass of subs. It's already profitable, but B2P is more profitable at the moment. As subscribers increase so will profits, and will probably surpass the B2P model. Quality nor quantity need be affected.

I factually know it is not profitable, and by quite a margin. Spencer said 'its profitable for them'. Its not profitable in actuality - their costs are not offset by their revenue.

 

[Topher]

Sony? This is about SIE.

PlayStation has always been one step ahead of Microsoft.

While Microsoft was wasting time with market shares in console gaming ...

SIE was raising concerns about cloud gaming,

using Phil Spencer words and Windows and Azure success against Microsoft, and positioning PS Plus as the only alternative to Microsoft dominance after Google Stadia death and Amazon Luna irrelevance.

SIE didn't take the bait (10-year deal) and the rest is history.

No, it is not about SIE. It is about the overall cloud gaming market. Look at all the other companies listed.