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[Gambit2483]

Power never mattered as far as who can be the market leader. Nearly every market leader for each generation was by a platform that wasn't the most powerful.

It's always about the game library and mindshare

 

[MP!]

Switch shows that for portability people are willing to make concessions

 

[Gaiff]

If graphics doesn't matter, we would still be playing on Pong graphics.

Graphics does matter. PERIOD

What changes is what is acceptable and how much are you willing to pay.

That's not entirely false but not entirely true either. Games absolutely needed better graphics than Pong to be more enjoyable back then. We're at a point where better graphics hardly translate to better games so I'd say we've reached a point where they hardly matter.

Most of the most popular games have PS3-level graphics. Fortnite, PUBG, CSGO, LoL, DOTA, WOW, and so on.

 

[kirby007]

it doesn't

 

[Woopah]

It can matter to individuals, but as the Wii, PS2 and DS also proved it doesn't matter to most people.

 

[scoobidoo112]

Wow, what a nuanced and well-argued thread. OP is obviously not insecure about anything...

The simple answer is that the gaming market consists of multiple segments that are aimed at different audiences.

There is room for high-end hardware aimed at achieving high resolutions and framerates, and low-end hardware for lower resolutions and framerates at a lower initial purchasing price.

The quality of a game has nothing to do with any of that, and is in the hands of developers and how they deal with the platform they are developing for.

Additionally, the quality of a game is completely subjective and has nothing to do with some aggregated score.

In the meantime any decent gaming PC can emulate switch games at 4K / 60FPS, enhancing the overall experience, and thus makes owning the device itself completely pointless.

 

[Trunx81]

But then they could bring back the tagline "NOW YOU'RE PLAYING WITH POWER!" Worth it.

And you could make a thread like "Nintendo has done it for me". Win-win

 

[killatopak]

That's not entirely false but not entirely true either. Games absolutely needed better graphics than Pong to be more enjoyable back then. We're at a point where better graphics hardly translate to better games so I'd say we've reached a point where they hardly matter.

Most of the most popular games have PS3-level graphics. Fortnite, PUBG, CSGO, LoL, DOTA, WOW, and so on.

All games that have been graphically updated consistently as well as engine updates. I played all of them. Dota, LoL, CSGO and WoW to this day. I watched how CS was just as custom map as well as DOTA. LoL had a massive graphics update back 2015. I should know since it made me play it at a whopping 21 fps to Diamond rank due to that update. DOTA 2 is all that needs to be said as well as Source 2. Blizzard was constantly being shit on for their shortcoming graphically in Shadowlands especially the in game cinematics. They fixed it in Dragonflight. Blizzard even made a big deal about it.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Just proves that:

-Graphics don't sell.

-Frame rate doesn't sell.

FiFa and COD would like to have a word with you.

 

[Del_X]

Might not matter for sales or for getting fanatics drowning in nostalgia at review sites to give their titles high reviews, but they do matter to another segment of the gaming public. I mean, if power didn't matter then the PS5, series X, and high end GPUs would be selling terribly.

We'll see how Rockstar's next GTA which takes advantage of current gen power sells

 

[justiceiro]

Wasn't the power of the switch that allowed to get port of games like doom, what assured a better third part support and and position the switch as a more viable alternative?

 

[Interfectum]

Graphics have never truly mattered. Most popular games are shit like Minecraft, Roblox and Among Us. If the game is provocative and fun, people will be there. Graphics only matter to hardcore gaming enthusiasts but they are so few in number they are nearly irrelevant. Fortnite makes millions a month, Zelda sells 10 million in three days but there are celebrations in the hardcore gamer streets if Dead Space passes a couple million in a month or two.

 

[Gaiff]

All games that have been graphically updated consistently as well as engine updates. I played all of them. Dota, LoL, CSGO and WoW to this day. I watched how CS was just as custom map as well as DOTA. LoL had a massive graphics update back 2015. I should know since it made me play it at a whopping 21 fps to Diamond rank due to that update. DOTA 2 is all that needs to be said as well as Source 2. Blizzard was constantly being shit on for their shortcoming graphically in Shadowlands especially the in game cinematics. They fixed it in Dragonflight. Blizzard even made a big deal about it.

And those games are still woefully outdated graphically. One of the reasons they're so popular is that they're easy to run and thus reach the largest amount of people. PCs today are far more powerful than they were 10 years ago. No reason not to update the graphics and tech here and there, but the point remains that these games have dated visuals.

 

[blackjon24]

oh it matters, the amount of great games the switch misses out on just because of the lack of power sucks. Delayed and cancelled ports are the norm (looking at you hogwarts and midnight sun). Is tears of the kingdom and masterpiece? Probably but waiting a whole generation for that one game is not how I want to live my life, thank god I have other consoles

Also pc players get to play a much better experience than what we got on switch hardware so jokes on us as switch owners

 

[rodrigolfp]

FiFa and COD would like to have a word with you.

What word? PES have better looking models than FIFA. CoD was never a top looker.

 

[RoboFu]

Yes and No,
Games made for the switch are fine.. could play them all day everyday.

But then you have ports like Mortal Kombat that even though play the same are very hard to look at.

 

[killatopak]

And those games are still woefully outdated graphically. One of the reasons they're so popular is that they're easy to run and thus reach the largest amount of people. PCs today are far more powerful than they were 10 years ago. No reason not to update the graphics and tech here and there, but the point remains that these games have dated visuals.

As I said, things that are accepted differ based on the times. Sooner or later they'll have to update it or risk someone else making a game that functions the same and looks better.

 

[itsjustJEFF]

Honestly... I think it's expectation. It's ingrained in our heads that it's a "handheld" "Nintendo doesn't focus on Power." So there is a set expectation to not expect the "best" graphics, but instead good/great game play. When you've set ppls/your own expectations "correctly" you don't expect something that's not possible.

No one bought a Switch thinking they were going to get cutting edge visuals.

 

[Neff]

It shows that we're way, way past the point where cutting edge tech is required to suspend disbelief for many. I remember non-gamers in the PSone and even the PS2 era looking at the visuals thinking 'yeah it still looks like a dumb video game', but now we have very outdated technology capable of rendering very detailed, expressive images.

Kinda feels like the tech race, such as it is, is back in the hands of nerds again.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

how many third-party games switch has missed?

 

[mxbison]

Nice graphics are the cherry on top.

Zelda Totk is more technically advanced than all the static AAA open worlds on PS5/XSX/PC.

 

[alphachino]

I've a 3080, PS5, Steam Deck, Analog Pocket, Odin Pro, GPD Win 4...

The Switch gets more use than any of the other devices combined.

 

[Koenigssee]

Cruelty Squad showed that nothing matters as long as the game is enjoyable.

 

[Wildebeest]

No, it shows that Nintendo have graphics that look great to a lot of people because they are readable. Other devs use more computing power and more detailed art assets to make a realistic style game that is such a visual mess that people need to have everything interactive highlighted or painted yellow for them, and then you still need a voice actor constantly telling the player what to do. This shows that better/worse is not so simple and that there are trade-offs.

 

[Trilobit]

Doesn't the Switch show graphics/power DON'T Matter?

Well, it depends. They do matter to a certain degree. For example, I'm going to buy and enjoy Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom and I'll enjoy the heck of it. But it matters to me that the graphics are no better than BotW. My enjoyment of the game would have been tremendously better if it was on the level of RDR2. More people would probably also have bought it if it had better framerate, draw distance and graphics overall.

But it still has great sales because it's a great game and Zelda. Design can overcome a lot of the detrimentals of low power. Just look at Super Mario Odyssey.

In the end I'd say graphics/power do matter and enable incredible things previously inaccessible. But they are not solely responsible for the quality of a game. When I play RDR2 I'm just constantly impressed by its world and the immersion it enables. When I play BotW I'm impressed by the atmosphere and gameplay.

 

[DeepEnigma]

No, just shows it doesn't matter to the platform. People accept it more so in a handheld.

If they did a Wii-U2, they would be dead in the water. Bono or not.

 

[dorkimoe]

The ultimate proof that graphics don't matter is that there is zero evidence that video games were any less fun 30 years ago than they are now.

uhh..if i say they are more fun now thats evidence enough for me . Nobody is going to tell me that the original mario is more fun than mario odyssey

 

[Astral Dog]

They matter

The Switch still has the prettiest Nintendo games

But people also look for other things,the portable/hybrid feature is appealing to a big audience,and convenient for a gaming device

Nintendo prioritizes their market and caters to them, sometimes it doesn't work as they would like to,but with the Switch they done well

 

[ahtlas7]

I think it's more nuanced than that.

 

[LazyParrot]

uhh..if i say they are more fun now thats evidence enough for me . Nobody is going to tell me that the original mario is more fun than mario odyssey

That's not what I meant. The real question is whether someone playing Mario Odyssey in 2017 is having more fun than someone playing Super Mario 64 in 1996.

 

[Nautilus]

After the 7th gen, it stopped mattering entirely.

I mean, Nintendo always made an excellent case that it wasn't the lack of power that made we get less original games, but rather the lack of creativity and a bit of risk taking. But nowadays? What games TRULY needed PS5/Series X levels of power to give that "next gen" experience? Mayyyybe Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart? What else those consoles did outside of increasing framerate and/or resolution?

The success of games that have either simplistic or "bad" graphics that can make do with an excelent art direction such as Fortnite, Minecraft, a lot of Nintendo game just shows that gamers and consumers in general aren't nearly that impressed nor are looking for games that wow them graphically, but rather that moves them.

And well, for that to happen, you don't need that much power increase each gen. But rather, you have to be bold every now and again.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

What word? PES have better looking models than FIFA. CoD was never a top looker.

Booth are 60fps, and booth look better than the newest Zelda on this gen's Sony and MS consoles. Booth sold more than the Zelda franchise last decade etc. Fps and good graphics clearly sell, and even drive addoption rate to "next gen" consoles.

 

[KellyNole]

Graphics matter to an extent, but doesn't mean it will make a good game. Also, through out video game history, the weakest or weaker system has won the sales battle. NES beat Master System, Gameboy beat Game Gear, Playstation beat N64, Ps2 beat Gamecube and Xbox, DS beat PSP, Wii beat Xbox and PS3, 3Ds beat Vita, and Finally Switch is beating PS5 and Xbox. The only sure case of the most powerful system with the best graphics winning the console wars was PS4.

Truly it is about the games/experiences than it is about Graphics.

 

[Kataploom]

It matters, but it doesn't for everyone the same way.

For example: I'd rather have games looking last gen with better IQ + frame rate than 30 fps Matrix demo looking games on consoles, as long as art style is good appealing.

Most people want good looking games, they don't care about "technically complex" games, just pretty games and Switch is good enough to manage good looking games with basically any art style already.

But TBF, those that say shit about Switch power aren't educated enough to identify actual game complexities. They fall for "pretty" (relative) realistic games too often on bigger consoles thinking that's the most complex they can get (lmao), while shitting on an actual technically complex game, Zelda: TOTK, because of resolution.

Yet they always leave PC out of comparisons conveniently. Pure hypocrisy/ignorance. Curiously enough, those also defend their toys from PC comparisons by using same argument others defend Switch: Price, convenience.

In summary: Power matters depending on if it benefits or harms warrior argument.

 

[Nautilus]

Zelda botw and totk are created by aliens not Nintendo. But yah, Nintendo has to stay within a certain pice range for mass market penetration. Remember the original 3ds at 250? They had to cut price to 170 because of poor sales. So their hands are tied.

Coming to your question - power and graphics do matter. Fortunately we have other companies that can take risk. Do you not like games like rdr2?

And yet the Switch Oled is selling like hotcake at 350 dollars.

It isn't just about the power. Its about if the perceived value is acceptable or not.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Booth are 60fps, and booth look better than the newest Zelda on this gen's Sony and MS consoles. Booth sold more than the Zelda franchise last decade etc. Fps and good graphics clearly sell, and even drive addoption rate to "next gen" consoles.

And both combined didn't sell what GTAV with PS3 graphics and 30fps did. Or Minecraft.

 

[cramoss]

Yes, but this has always been the case

 

[sankt-Antonio]

And both combined didn't sell what GTAV with PS3 graphics and 30fps did. Or Minecraft.

GTA V and RDR2 sold because they looked miles better than GTAIV or RDR1.

 

[Gojiira]

I agree, which is why ToTK and Metroid Prime Remaster are the highest rated games this year and scored higher than all those games you mentioned.

Oh please, if Nintendo games were critiqued the same way Sony/Xbox/PC games are then TotK would have been trashed for being a literal asset flip.
Scores mean jack shit when it comes to Nintendo games, just look at that garbage that was Skyward Sword…

 

[rodrigolfp]

GTA V and RDR2 sold because they looked miles better than GTAIV or RDR1.

Both are 30fps and GTA V looking "a generation" worse than RDR2 sold way more. And Totk looking the same as BotW is selling already more. So, again, graphics and frame rate don't sell.

 

[MastAndo]

It's true. If TotK ran at a locked 30 fps or even 60 fps, I wouldn't even play it.

 

[Buggy Loop]

good graphics doesn't automatically translate to good game

More often than not, it's the opposite. Good graphics almost automatically translate to an "ok" game.

So much budget spent on artists and engine tech, or cutting corners to have a more static world to push graphics even further... ugh. Can't think of the last graphical showcase that blew me away gameplay wise.

 

[OverHeat]

Playing Nintendo games at 4K 60fps…OP is wrong

 

[zedinen]

1.PlayStation and Xbox account for 85% of consumer spending in Q1 2023

PlayStation $8.1B

Xbox $3.6B

Nintendo $2.3B


2.Nintendo sales and market cap have declined since the late 2000s:

Sales FY 3/09 ¥1.8T / Market Cap ¥10T

Sales FY 3/24 ¥1.4T / Market Cap ¥8T



3.Nintendo stock is underperforming (YTD):


Nikkei 225 ↑27.47%


Sega Sammy ↑49.63%

Kadokawa ↑47.15%

Sony ↑28.28%

Capcom ↑28.21%

Konami ↑24.39%

Bandai Namco ↑18.46%

Nintendo ↑13.54%

Square Enix ↑13.22%


4.Investors are not fooled by low quality profits (P/E)

Kadokawa 37.80

Capcom 31.19

Konami 28.60

Bandai Namco 23.94

Sony 17.27

Square Enix 16.94

Nintendo 16.77

 

[tr1p1ex]

too much focus on graphics.

I think there are much more interesting games to be made when they aren't being slaves to graphics.

 

[kiphalfton]

No. And if you say otherwise you're just high on copium.

You have to remember that "graphics" doesn't just consist of highly detailed character models or environments... but also consist of resolution, shadow/lighting, anti-aliasing, etc. (and even in regards to the latter, Nintendo scrapes by by doing the bare minimum).

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Both are 30fps and GTA V looking "a generation" worse than RDR2 sold way more. And Totk looking the same as BotW is selling already more. So, again, graphics and frame rate don't sell.

Nice logic, wait I'll use it too.

GTA5 looks better than GTA4 and sold more units -> argument over, graphics sell.

 

[Trunx81]

Just saw this video comparison between BotW and Horizon:Zero Dawn.


Just leaving this here without any judgement, you decide what you want.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

same answer as always: all that matters is the game.

but hardware affects gameplay.

if power didnt matter, why upgrade hardware in the first place?
just re-use n64 hardware forever, right?

 

[rodrigolfp]

Nice logic, wait I'll use it too.

GTA5 looks better than GTA4 and sold more units -> argument over, graphics sell.

And what proves that it was the graphics that made GTAV sell more than GTAIV?