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[NickFire]

I'm not a legal eagle but this comment from the Reuters story tells me it's probably over:



There are some other comments in that story that say what you're saying...but an appeal win has to be incredibly solid, or the Judge has to be completely ridiculous. Not sure I buy some of the complaints against her.

It's hard to explain what I am talking about without sounding like I am saying I think FTC will win the entire case or any part thereof. I'll try though:

- If the FTC appeals, there will be two possible components. One would, of course, be that the primary claim that FTC should have won (in their view). The second would probably be a motion to stay the denial / maintain status quo until the appeal is decided. In other words, to continue the TRO while appellate court reviews everything.

- If the FTC filed the motion to stay, and could actually show that the trial judge applied the wrong standard, then the appellate court might allow a motion to stay to: make sure the trial judge's final decision was correct before dissolving the temporary restraining order; or to allow the judge to issue a revised opinion with the correct standard applied before the appeal proceeds.

Now even if the stay was granted, it would not mean FTC wins the appeal. Just that the status quo is maintained while the appeal is reviewed. But again, I am not saying I think the FTC has a solid appeal. I have no idea if the claim she applied the wrong standard is even accurate. I only know that applying the wrong standard can be something that an appellate court would take notice of.

 

[GHG]

Can someone help me understand the difference between structural and behavioral? maybe some examples

I voted behavioral by the way.

Behavioural outlines what they are and aren't allowed to do with the acquired property after the acquisition has taken place, structural changes the nature of what they are acquiring.

 

[In Cold Blood]

You're absolutely right Sony got where they got today by paying games not to be on Xbox.. you ask me age, but you must be 10 if you believe that logic.

The guys ignores everytime Xbox did it and all those console launch exclusives from E3 lmao.

I can't seem to find a single time Sony paid 100 million dollars for a game not to release on Xbox though.. did you forget Xbox and tomb raider? Not once did sony do anything close to that.

This is why you rats can't have reasonable conversations about it, it's all scream Sony that Sony did all these evil things, when MS self screwed themselves half the time.

Rats? Now I'm pretty sure of your age.
Sony bought Psygonois, the biggest European publisher at that time.
They paid Namco, Capcom, Square and Konami money to be exclusive to the PS.
They bought studios like GG, Insomniac, Sucker Punch, Naughty Dog etc to make exclusive games for PS.
They paid hundreds and hundreds of millions on a multitude of games to keep them off Xbox.

Both companies do it, so Sony isn't some Victim here. Give it a rest.

 

[TrueGrime]

There are issues with the FTC's arguing of their case, but I don't think their chance would be absolute zero if they try and appeal.

They actually might have to appeal because the precedent here can make their future cases extremely painful, especially when it comes to Corley's interpretation of the Clayton act and how she basically told them they needed to factor in the deals in their case logic.

Hopefully they appeal. I would love to see the FTC take another L in less than two weeks. Their approach to this entire thing was so rushed and haphazard that there's no way they gather themselves up quickly enough to form the basis for an appeal.

 

[Varteras]

Don't believe me, read it from Take Two themselves.
"NEW YORK--(BUSINESS WIRE)--May 23, 2022-- Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. (NASDAQ: TTWO) ("Take-Two" or the "Company") announced today the completion of its combination with Zynga Inc. ("Zynga"). Under the terms of the merger agreement, Zynga stockholders received $3.50 in cash and 0.0406 shares of Take-Two common stock per share of Zynga common stock."

Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Completes Combination with Zynga Inc. | Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc.

The Investor Relations website contains information about Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc.'s business for stockholders, potential investors, and financial analysts.

www.take2games.com

Learn what the difference is between a merger and an aquisition.

Take Two paid a bunch of money to bring Zynga into the fold. They agreed to do a stock swap for half. In all, it meant T2 gave Zynga $12 billion in cash and stocks. Again, it was one company giving the other a bunch of money. And now Zynga is a subsidiary. You can play with definitions all you like. It doesn't matter. You've made nothing but a feeble attempt to claim Sony can't and won't do something for arbitrary reasons. Overemphasizing things that have no bearing on ability or intent. Keep trying. You'll get there.

 

[ChiefDada]

I dont think it was. I think it was a valid point in line of the FTC's framing of their reasoning.

Several of the FTC's reasons were "but Sony this" and "Sony that". If they had replace the word sony with consumer, perhaps we wouldnt be here.

The FTC's position (which the judge admittedly obliged to for the sake of their case) was that Sony was Microsoft's sole competitor in the high-end console market. The regulation they are citing in support of their position (Clayton Act) focuses on mergers' potential effects on competition; whether or not competition MAY be substantially lessened. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to not focus on Sony with their legal arguments.

I have no problem with the judge's decision, I have no problem with her son being a Microsoft employee, I have no issue with her political affiliation, etc. It is her reasoning that is very bizarre and runs counter to the regulation in question. She literally misquoted the most consequential portion of the legal standard, and elevated the threshold higher than what the regulation requires.

 

[Historia]

Rats? Now I'm pretty sure of your age.
Sony bought Psygonois, the biggest European publisher at that time.
They paid Namco, Capcom, Square and Konami money to be exclusive to the PS.
They bought studios like GG, Insomniac, Sucker Punch, Naughty Dog etc to make exclusive games for PS.
They paid hundreds and hundreds of millions on a multitude of games to keep them off Xbox.

Both companies do it, so Sony isn't some Victim here. Give it a rest.

You're braindead with that argument that have been parroted a million times

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Supposedly, the existing marketing deal with Sony for CoD ends in 2024? So the earliest CoD can go Xbox exclusive in 2025?

That seems like what's going to happen now. Let's find out in 2 years if anyone who was here in this thread today still remembers then that MS "promised" CoD would not go exclusive in court proceedings to get the acquisition over the finish line.

 

[sainraja]

Best thing for Sony is that MS take COD off Sony in 2024. That would at least put a spanner in future acquisitions quicker. Sony and Nintendo need to look at Japanese publishers and push the Japanese Government to move certain publishers under the groups with no non-foreigner ownership. Not buy them but enough of a push that the Japanese publishers can stay third party without Western consumption. Although I own a PS5 and love SE Eastern games, I want SE to remain independent.

People pretending to like COD so they can "play older COD" then why didn't you buy those games? It's so transparent that certain posters here are celebrating taking games from another platform, nothing more.

Yeah, fanboys will be fanboys and the bolded part places those Xbox fans to be the worst lot of the bunch.

Supposedly, the existing marketing deal with Sony for CoD ends in 2024? So the earliest CoD can go Xbox exclusive in 2025?

That seems like what's going to happen now. Let's find out in 2 years if anyone who was here in this thread today still remembers then that MS "promised" CoD would not go exclusive in court proceedings to get the acquisition over the finish line.

They know it is going exclusive... it just doesn't hurt their "fanboy" ego to say otherwise. Notice how many of them were absent when things looked bad approval wise? Only for them to return now that things are going in their favor but they pretty much left when they thought it wasn't going their way. Now they just don't have to worry about it.

 

[VAVA Mk2]

Yup.

becuase the FTC lawyer kept saying something along the lines of "sony users would miss out things like exclusive skins..etc" - im paraphrasing of course, but the line about not protecting sony was spot on.

Also, thrilled to reply to Gaf Royalty.
Long time lurker but always enjoy your posts

I still wish Kretos was here to give us a show. This would be thing of legend. His implosion would have been hysterical.

 

[RoadHazard]

Rats? Now I'm pretty sure of your age.
Sony bought Psygonois, the biggest European publisher at that time.
They paid Namco, Capcom, Square and Konami money to be exclusive to the PS.
They bought studios like GG, Insomniac, Sucker Punch, Naughty Dog etc to make exclusive games for PS.
They paid hundreds and hundreds of millions on a multitude of games to keep them off Xbox.

Both companies do it, so Sony isn't some Victim here. Give it a rest.

Those studios Sony bought weren't shit when they bought them (except I guess Insomniac, but they were practically a Sony studio already), they only became hugely successful after being under Sony for quite some time. It's not the same as buying fucking Activision.

 

[Vognerful]

behavioral = we promise to abide
structural = we are literally selling a part of the division off to appease


to my understanding.

Behavioural outlines what they are and aren't allowed to do with the acquired property after the acquisition has taken place, structural changes the nature of what they are acquiring.

Appreciate it guys.

 

[Banjo64]

One good thing about this deal closing will be that I never have to read about Psygnosis ever again.

 

[adamsapple]

One good thing about this deal closing will be that I never have to read about Psygnosis ever again.

 

[In Cold Blood]

Sony basically bought start-up companies that weren't really established and helped companies that were struggling financially. Microsoft has been buying really big and established companies that sold millions and millions of games. The funny thing is, they will class them as Xbox Studios titles when all the hard work was done for them.

If Microsoft still can't compete after all of this, they honestly should move away from gaming and call it a day.

Bungie was a start up? Psygonois was a start up? Naughty Dog was a start up?
The only difference between MS and Sony is that MS can do it bigger than Sony, and if the roles were reversed, Sony would be doing the exact same thing as MS.

Sony has showed their true nature in all of this. They are a ruthless company that want to destroy their opposition, as they should do in a competitive industry, fighting for customers.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The FTC's position (which the judge admittedly obliged to for the sake of their case) was that Sony was Microsoft's sole competitor in the high-end console market. The regulation they are citing in support of their position (Clayton Act) focuses on mergers' potential effects on competition; whether or not competition MAY be substantially lessened. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to not focus on Sony with their legal arguments.

I have no problem with the judge's decision, I have no problem with her son being a Microsoft employee, I have no issue with her political affiliation, etc. It is her reasoning that is very bizarre and runs counter to the regulation in question. She literally misquoted the most consequential portion of the legal standard, and elevated the threshold higher than what the regulation requires.

FTC were ultimately incompetent and the hearing was them constantly tripping over their own feet and not being able to answer even basic questions.

The judge might be paid by MS sure, but FTC made her job way too easy. And the FTC has been losing these cases left and right so it's unclear if they really have anyone who can put together a successful appeal.

 

[Historia]

One good thing about this deal closing will be that I never have to read about Psygnosis ever again.

These morons read the same script times and times again it feels tiring.

 

[SlimySnake]

behavioral = we promise to lie
structural = we are literally selling a part of our soul to the devil to appease


to my understanding.

Fixed.

 

[Topher]

Sony has showed their true nature in all of this. They are a ruthless company that want to destroy their opposition, as they should do in a competitive industry, fighting for customers.

 

[GHG]

One good thing about this deal closing will be that I never have to read about Psygnosis ever again.

I read that and just rolled my eyes.

You'd think that even when things are looking as rosy as they are for the deal they would give it a rest but apparently not.

They must see that bird logo every time they shut their eyes to go to sleep.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Can someone help me understand the difference between structural and behavioral? maybe some examples

I voted behavioral by the way.

The issue is of who is in control.

Trusted to do the right thing, is being in control yourself, like a child rationing their own sweets - behavioural.

Not trusted to do the right thing, is someone else in control - like a parent. I've taken away your sweets, you'll get 1 every two days if you behave well - structural

 

[Varteras]

I read that and just rolled my eyes.

You'd think that even when things are looking as rosy as they are for the deal they would give it a rest but apparently not.

They must see that bird logo every time they shut their eyes to go to sleep.

Clearly huge fans of the smash hit Terrorpods, who can never forgive them for ultimately crushing the Commodore 64.

 

[Vox Machina]

And those regulators only have the capacity to judge the merits of the merger based on the impact it will have on their jurisdiction and their jurisdiction alone. Based on that it's not difficult to see why the rulings have been what they are in places where xbox barely has any presence and there is no cloud gaming industry to speak of.

There's no Cloud Gaming industry anywhere at all tbh.

 

[Historia]

Something something email spend something out of bussiness

Something something thought experiment

 

[Dick Jones]

Clearly huge fans of the smash hit Terrorpods who can never forgive them for ultimately crushing the Commodore 64.

I loved Rick Dangerous on the C64. Bastards

 

[ChiefDada]

Hopefully they appeal. I would love to see the FTC take another L in less than two weeks. Their approach to this entire thing was so rushed and haphazard that there's no way they gather themselves up quickly enough to form the basis for an appeal.

No question, the FTC was playing games with the clock and their performance in court suggests they were unprepared. But the bolded makes me question whether you understand or even care to understand the applicable regulations governing this case or if you're just here to cheer on Microsoft (which is fine; it's NeoGAF).

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

So whoever bought those million dollar options was clearly insider trading.

Is that going to be investigated?

 

[adamsapple]

Something something email spend something out of bussiness

Something something thought experiment

something something old news

something something judge denied PI

something something CMA renegotiating.

So whoever bought those million dollar options was clearly insider trading.

Is that going to be investigated?

of course not, lol, you think they'll ever investigate into one of their own ?

 

[SlimySnake]

Sony has showed their true nature in all of this. They are a ruthless company that want to destroy their opposition, as they should do in a competitive industry, fighting for customers.

Well said. I heard rumors that Sony ruthlessly spent $85 billion on zenimax, Activision and Minecraft. I also saw emails from Sony execs saying they want to buy CoD in order destroy Xbox.

 

[Greggy]

The FTC's position (which the judge admittedly obliged to for the sake of their case) was that Sony was Microsoft's sole competitor in the high-end console market. The regulation they are citing in support of their position (Clayton Act) focuses on mergers' potential effects on competition; whether or not competition MAY be substantially lessened. Therefore, it doesn't make sense to not focus on Sony with their legal arguments.

I have no problem with the judge's decision, I have no problem with her son being a Microsoft employee, I have no issue with her political affiliation, etc. It is her reasoning that is very bizarre and runs counter to the regulation in question. She literally misquoted the most consequential portion of the legal standard, and elevated the threshold higher than what the regulation requires.

Dude, you're literally acting as if there hadn't been a trial. As if legal arguments hadn't been presented and debated. The FTC for once had to back up their claims and not just make them. The outcome was expected and is clear. Help them file an appeal if you're that salty, Mr arm chair counsel.

 

[Varteras]

I loved Rick Dangerous on the C64. Bastards

Shut the fuck up. You don't play games.

 

[GHG]

There's no Cloud Gaming industry anywhere at all tbh.

This is a whole lot of nothing:

https://newsbeezer.com/perueng/geforce-now-celebrates-3-years-with-25-million-players-testing-the-game-in-the-cloud/

Microsoft says more than 20 million people have used Xbox Cloud Gaming

Xbox Cloud Gaming is growing, thanks to Fortnite.

www.theverge.com

 

[splattered]

Oh man didn't Warren Buffett sell off his Activision stock not that long ago? Wonder how he feels about that now haha

 

[Not_A-Cop_Maybe]

Those studios Sony bought weren't shit when they bought them (except I guess Insomniac, but they were practically a Sony studio already), they only became hugely successful after being under Sony for quite some time. It's not the same as buying fucking Activision.

Hey according to some on Gaf, Activision and Blizzard have been shit for decades now. So MS buying a publisher that aint shit . ;D.

That being said, ND were a successful studio well before they got bought in 2001.
Insomniac got bought out in 2019 for 229 Million. Not exactly chump change either. The Gaming industry has increased a lot since then in terms of market ceiling. Paying 79billion for a publisher and several studios is actually a good deal in the long run.

 

[Mr Moose]

Supposedly, the existing marketing deal with Sony for CoD ends in 2024? So the earliest CoD can go Xbox exclusive in 2025?

It doesn't include CoD 2024.

 

[Varteras]

Oh man didn't Warren Buffett sell off his Activision stock not that long ago? Wonder how he feels about that now haha

If you had a million dollars would you sweat losing $100? That's probably worse than the boat he's in.

 

[Slicker than your average]

Rats? Now I'm pretty sure of your age.
Sony bought Psygonois, the biggest European publisher at that time.
They paid Namco, Capcom, Square and Konami money to be exclusive to the PS.
They bought studios like GG, Insomniac, Sucker Punch, Naughty Dog etc to make exclusive games for PS.
They paid hundreds and hundreds of millions on a multitude of games to keep them off Xbox.

Both companies do it, so Sony isn't some Victim here. Give it a rest.

Comparing a few studios to buying huge publisher's . The best you can do? Interesting you bring up insomniac, since Sony only did this because MS bought zenimax. Again a huge publisher to a studio.

I'm waiting for you to show me receipts of Sony literally paying games not to be on Xbox( burdon of proof is on you). Again Xbox literally paid 100 million for tomb raider not to be on another platform. Or you gonna cry about sf5 even though Sony funded it for capcom.

I want to see these Sony 100s and 100s of millions of dollars of money bags for games not to be on Xbox.

 

[GHG]

Oh man didn't Warren Buffett sell off his Activision stock not that long ago? Wonder how he feels about that now haha

He made bank regardless. He bought before the deal was announced and then sold when it was trading in the mid 80's after the CMA announced they were no longer looking at console concerns.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

something something old news

something something judge denied PI

something something CMA renegotiating.





of course not, lol, you think they'll ever investigate into one of their own ?

A bet placed 10 minutes before the announcement

"Could just be lucky timing"

Options Action: Activision trader wins big on trade placed before FTC injunction denial — CNBC

Mike Khouw, Optimize Advisors president, joins CNBC’s Melissa Lee and the Options Action traders on Activison's bid trading day.

stocks.apple.com

 

[splattered]

If you had a million dollars would you sweat losing $100? That's probably worse than the boat he's in.

I'm sure he's kicking himself either way

 

[Dick Jones]

Shut the fuck up. You don't play games.

You know my secret

I got Clarence Boddicker a C64 after some AI went rogue and threw him through a window. I saw him play 2 minutes of Rick Dangerous on it.

 

[GHG]

So whoever bought those million dollar options was clearly insider trading.

Is that going to be investigated?

The SEC:

 

[Unknown Soldier]

It doesn't include CoD 2024.

Oh neat, so CoD might be going exclusive next year.

If I were Sony, I would calling Amazon, Apple, Google, etc. and looking to get acquired ASAP. Survival chances against Microsoft going it alone will soon hit 0%. MS is going to continue acquiring the industry, and only another tech company with a trillion dollar-plus market cap is strong enough to fight MS.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I read that and just rolled my eyes.

You'd think that even when things are looking as rosy as they are for the deal they would give it a rest but apparently not.

They must see that bird logo every time they shut their eyes to go to sleep.

Oh please. Half of them never even heard of them before it went through the PR chain of command.

 

[TrueGrime]

No question, the FTC was playing games with the clock and their performance in court suggests they were unprepared. But the bolded makes me question whether you understand or even care to understand the applicable regulations governing this case or if you're just here to cheer on Microsoft (which is fine; it's NeoGAF).

I'm glad "console warrior" is all you took from that. Cool.

As someone who is employed by a company that went through a merger where the FTC was heavily involved, I think I might have somewhat of an understanding. Also, concerning your bolded, the FTC claimed their intent to block the merger, what, a year ago and waited to the very last second to try and stall with an injunction. Listening to them try and plead their case in one of the biggest tech mergers to date was downright shameful on their part. They seemed very much unprepared, so in that regard, you think that another judge is going to grant an appeal based on flimsy evidence of the judge's ignorance and that the FTC is ready to plead their weak case again if an appeal is granted?

 

[DeepEnigma]

So whoever bought those million dollar options was clearly insider trading.

Is that going to be investigated?

I called it the moment they happened.

Totally not insider trading.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The SEC:

Highest paid job in the world:

Fake FTC regulator turned megacorp shill and insider options trader

 

[Topher]

Man....I love (most) of you guys. This has been one hell of a ride.

 

[adamsapple]

The SEC:

If you want to do good in the market, just keep track of what stock the senators are selling.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

This is a whole lot of nothing:

https://newsbeezer.com/perueng/geforce-now-celebrates-3-years-with-25-million-players-testing-the-game-in-the-cloud/

Microsoft says more than 20 million people have used Xbox Cloud Gaming

Xbox Cloud Gaming is growing, thanks to Fortnite.

www.theverge.com

People testing games in the cloud hardly makes it sone massive market