Unredacted reaction to PS5's reveal, "We have a better product than Sony does" - Phil Spencer 30% GPU advantage

I probably should, but mods don't seem to care and it's 15 posts negative to 1 for xbox support, all the rest of the members who support xbox are afraid to say anything for fear of being banned for "console waring". And I say this as someone who plays more ps5 this gen than Xbox. It's not about bias, it's about some semblance of balance.

Looking for balance, as in numerically balanced negative/positive posts, in a topic like this won't end well, though. Even looking at in the gentlest way possible, Phil made a fairly big blunder with his assessment of the consoles before release. That his takeaway (power difference) also became a talking point to undermine a competitor's console is a natural extension of this topic.
 
I probably should, but mods don't seem to care and it's 15 posts negative to 1 for xbox support, all the rest of the members who support xbox are afraid to say anything for fear of being banned for "console waring". And I say this as someone who plays more ps5 this gen than Xbox. It's not about bias, it's about some semblance of balance.
Tough couple of days eh Phil.

Chill dude, not long before Satya pulls the plug and you can start making real money as a third party publisher releasing your games on PlayStation, switch and pc.
 
Looking for balance, as in numerically balanced negative/positive posts, in a topic like this won't end well, though. Even looking at in the gentlest way possible, Phil made a fairly big blunder with his assessment of the consoles before release. That his takeaway (power difference) also became a talking point to undermine a competitor's console is a natural extension of this topic.

Well for sure they deserve some criticism, but even the things that are being done well are getting no recognition. As far as a big blunder goes, again, many people had that same though, some extremely qualified.
It also really didn't matter, even if he had properly recognized thier console was just as good, it would have changed nothing in terms of launch, as both machines were selling out for at least a year.
 
They were successful in that sense, I lost count at the amount of times Richard parroted about the "teraflop differential" in almost any video related to either consoles lol
1X was the repeat of original XBox. The most powerful console not many people wanted.
Well worse - since it only sold about as well as Dreamcast.

Anyway - I do think MS would have done 1X irrespective of what Sony did - they were desperate for a rebranding at that time, doing it on the back of power narrative was somewhat misguided, but they didn't exactly have many other options at the time.
 
Well for sure they deserve some criticism, but even the things that are being done well are getting no recognition. As far as a big blunder goes, again, many people had that same though, some extremely qualified.
It also really didn't matter, even if he had properly recognized thier console was just as good, it would have changed nothing in terms of launch, as both machines were selling out for at least a year.

It ebbs and flows, don't you think? There's been times when there were consistent streams of posts praising XBox (Game Pass, backwards compatibility, features, game release hype, etc.) and times like now which are responses to new information in the form of the leaks.
 
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It ebbs and flows, don't you think? There's been times when there were consistent streams of posts praising XBox (Game Pass, backwards compatibility, features, game release hype, etc.) and times like now which are responses to new information in the form of the leaks.

Somewhat, and expected, but it just seems like it's a giant boulder picking up steam down a hill here right now, and everything is sticking to it. Also the same doesn't seem to hold true on the negative Sony or Nintendo stories. But I digress, I'm not going to say any more on the matter.
 
People still don't seem to get it. MS aren't in this for gaming, they're in it to push operating systems and services. They don't want to compete with Sony as a gaming entity, they want to destroy them so people have no choice but to use their services If they want to game.
I think a lot of people get this. Just because we get that, though, doesn't mean that it's a viable strategy for them right now. Gamepass's biggest failing is that it doesn't have Sony's exclusives. LOL. :messenger_grinning_sweat:
 
ah yes because I want competition in gaming as sony is a juggernaut..

You can thank xbox for ps+ as sony saw how good it was for xbox and made their own (yes I'm subbed to it and will resub @ 160)

you can check my psn is you really want (same name on here) and see I was just playing ys 9 on my ps5. I'm not a fanboy like u ;)
Uh, hate to break it to you, but PS Plus debuted in 2010. That's 3 years before Games with Gold debuted, and 7 years before GamePass. Keep in mind it was also a time when MS was putting everything behind a paywall, including F2P games, streaming apps (like YouTube and Netflix), and the freaking Internet browser. All things Xbox fans defended to death, yet also praised them for when it was actually the PS4 dominance that made MS change its anti-consumer practices.

So, it was because of PS's competition that you have Games with Gold, GamePass, and a removal of the paywall for things everyone else allowed access to, not the other way around.
 
The One X came out a year after the Pro and the market had made its decision by then.

Same reason why if the PS5 Pro is released in Q4 24 and has the ability to play games like GTA6, Cyberpunk, Spider-Man, Wolverine, FF16 e.t.c. at high frame rates and high resolution with features like RTX AND has no competition from Xbox... it doesn't matter if Microsoft puts out a pro console in 2025. It'll be over by then. It doesn't matter if that console is more powerful.

It'll be a year on the market with Sony dominating the mindshare battle of the best place to play. And honestly, not just a year. You look at the last 2 years and that's been the case.

If you look at their potential roadmaps, 2024 and 2025 aren't going to be kind years to Xbox.

When you consider that a new generation is likely to start in 2028 or 2027, buying an XSX Pro that is going to be limited in what cross gen games it gets because of the XSS just becomes folly. It might be a worthwhile upgrade for someone who owns a Series S or X, but new consumers?
That's actually a damn good point. I definitely see the Series family seeing far fewer cross gen games than the PS5/Pro. Devs are not going to want to be held back by the weak ass S when they are designing for the PS6 and NeXbox (if they haven't gone 3rd party.) I mean just to develop on the Series, you're going to have to get it runnable on 3 very different machines, with very different memory configurations.

Unless they make another exception and say devs can exclude the S, but given we now know that the S far outsold the X, I can see why they can't exactly do that.
 
Uh, hate to break it to you, but PS Plus debuted in 2010. That's 3 years before Games with Gold debuted, and 7 years before GamePass. Keep in mind it was also a time when MS was putting everything behind a paywall, including F2P games, streaming apps (like YouTube and Netflix), and the freaking Internet browser. All things Xbox fans defended to death, yet also praised them for when it was actually the PS4 dominance that made MS change its anti-consumer practices.

So, it was because of PS's competition that you have Games with Gold, GamePass, and a removal of the paywall for things everyone else allowed access to, not the other way around.
exactly my point.sony did all that and MADE microsoft change it's ways. Just like game pass came out and sony was "eh we don't need a game pass of our own" to now they have one. And yes, MS old ways were shitty as fuck and I would never defend that crap.
 
exactly my point.sony did all that and MADE microsoft change it's ways. Just like game pass came out and sony was "eh we don't need a game pass of our own" to now they have one. And yes, MS old ways were shitty as fuck and I would never defend that crap.
PS+ predates gamepass.

The biggest differentiator of GamePass and PS+ is day 1 first-party games, which Sony is still not doing. So not sure how Sony copied Microsoft here.
 
Your implication is the game is only as good as Fallout 76, which is clearly not the case or it wouldn't be selling at such a massively higher rate.
You're making huge assumptions, as you literally do not know how many copies Starfield has sold vs. how many copies Fallout 76 or Fallour 4 sold.

If you're basing this entirely on the number of Steam user reviews, you're ignoring the fact that Starfield is not PlayStation as F76 or F4 was. So the sales distribution for F76 and F4 were spread thinner across platforms and not just concentrated on Steam and Xbox.
It's not the same in terms of reviews since you are comparing a product after 5 years of updates, patches, and improvements vs something just out.
It is literally the same as F76 reviews did not improve with time, updates, patches, and improvements. Here is the proof:

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Fallout 76's positive reviews percentage in the last 30 days is exactly the same as the overall reviews. Which is exactly the same as Starfield's reviews.

You may like Starfield more than other people did -- it may be a 9/10 or 10/10 or 11/10 for you -- and that's fine. But you can't deny that Starfield is now the worst-reviewed Bethesda game on Steam, and nearly 30% of people who paid for it and played the game did not like it.
 
I probably should, but mods don't seem to care and it's 15 posts negative to 1 for xbox support,

is your work or something?, so if there are not enough support for xbox then you come and post something in favor of it?

all the rest of the members who support xbox are afraid to say anything for fear of being banned for "console waring".

are you part of a group of "xbox supporters" and the other members told you that? you contact them in discord or something?
 
I don't really see the big deal here? A man has faith in his department's vision? I think all of the internet was basically telling us that Series X was more powerful at the time.

Very strange he thinks they had better software though.
 
You're making huge assumptions, as you literally do not know how many copies Starfield has sold vs. how many copies Fallout 76 or Fallour 4 sold.

If you're basing this entirely on the number of Steam user reviews, you're ignoring the fact that Starfield is not PlayStation as F76 or F4 was. So the sales distribution for F76 and F4 were spread thinner across platforms and not just concentrated on Steam and Xbox.

It is literally the same as F76 reviews did not improve with time, updates, patches, and improvements. Here is the proof:

CZbXM2i.jpg
zu0i55P.jpg


qVUkTQf.jpg


Fallout 76's positive reviews percentage in the last 30 days is exactly the same as the overall reviews. Which is exactly the same as Starfield's reviews.

You may like Starfield more than other people did -- it may be a 9/10 or 10/10 or 11/10 for you -- and that's fine. But you can't deny that Starfield is now the worst-reviewed Bethesda game on Steam, and nearly 30% of people who paid for it and played the game did not like it.

Good points, I yield.
 
is your work or something?, so if there are not enough support for xbox then you come and post something in favor of it?



are you part of a group of "xbox supporters" and the other members told you that? you contact them in discord or something?

As a matter of fact, yes, some people on this board have been in contact off the threads, and the sentiment is the same as what I stated, fear of posting too much xbox support for fear of banning. For the most part they just gave up or moved to other forums. And we aren't just talking "xbots" here, we are talking multiplatform gamers.
But it's not life or death, just gaming discussion either way. :)
 
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I particularly enjoy ignorant posts that label anyone saying anythng positive about xbox as a shill, or saying that ms trying to say anythjng positive is pointless. Yep, you are right, ms should just give up, and anyone on here that on the forum that likes ms should just shut up.

What a rediculous post, ms has 23 studios and is putting effort into game development.

These leaks have made it open hunting season on ms here and It's getting really old really fast. We get it, ms bad, Sony and Nintendo good.
You hit the nail on the head!
MS don't want to compete they want to buy their way to the top. Nintendo and Sony earned their way. Typical MS operation of stifling competition and buying their way to success.
Yes MS has 23 studios so why don't they improve that content rather than buying Bethesda and ABK and so forth?
 
Well for sure they deserve some criticism, but even the things that are being done well are getting no recognition. As far as a big blunder goes, again, many people had that same though, some extremely qualified.
It also really didn't matter, even if he had properly recognized thier console was just as good, it would have changed nothing in terms of launch, as both machines were selling out for at least a year.
Remember when Jim Ryan was laughed at for complaining about MS buying ABK? The press and social media had a field day. I've got no love for Jimbo and think he lacks charisma. But he was spot on with this.
This is the reason why he fought so hard. This is where Nintendo now needs to wake up.
 
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It's not beyond ridiculous at all. What do these tech sites know about about actual chip and hardware design? Do you think Richard Leadbitter knows more or better than Cerny when it comes to the PS5? Or that the actual hardware designers and makers AMD were clueless about the design of the APU in PS5. Do you think they made the design and then told Sony just hope for the best?
It was a sustained effort by MS shills to spread fud. Anyone with half a brain knew the PS5 was a masterful design.
It is not for nothing that acquaintances at both Sony and Xbox often prefix mentions of Digital Foundry with "those clowns at"…
 
People still don't seem to get it. MS aren't in this for gaming, they're in it to push operating systems and services. They don't want to compete with Sony as a gaming entity, they want to destroy them so people have no choice but to use their services If they want to game.
This is 100% accurate to my mind. If gaming is one of your hobbies, it would not be beneficial to have MS as the market leader.
 
Is this true though? Yields, price, split memory.

Or are you just thinking about interface? Because then there's nothing wrong with the Series S either.
The Series X is a good console. Is it superior to the PS5? Absolutely not. But it's solid, quiet, reliable and on par with the PS5. Series S has some issues, though, most recently exemplified with Baldur's Gate 3.
 
To be fair, they have brought their fair share of innovation to the industry since their entry in 2001.
Like microtransactions, and achievements masquerading as gameplay?

Honestly though I was never a Halo/Forza/Gears guy, I did like some of their old exclusives such as Dead Rising etc in the 360 era. Mostly I'm just salty that they own so many IPs and are mismanaging the shit out of their studios.
 
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To P3:
Only 25% of your fanbase (me included) has a better product than your competitor (also me included)...the other 75% has a inferior product...performance wise.
 
As a matter of fact, yes, some people on this board have been in contact off the threads, and the sentiment is the same as what I stated, fear of posting too much xbox support for fear of banning. For the most part they just gave up or moved to other forums. And we aren't just talking "xbots" here, we are talking multiplatform gamers.
But it's not life or death, just gaming discussion either way. :)

Nah....the only people that have to worry about being banned are warriors and that works both ways. There is an entire forum that has been spun off by Sony fans who were banned here. Massive difference between a supporter of a platform and a warrior.
 
While this is hilarious, lets not forget what SONY did with the PS3....i mean it was a self proclaimed cancer research console, supercomputer for the army, etc everything but gaming. It just goes to show that even leaders of their platforms are as much as a kid on a forum shit posting.

They are both comical, especially Kaz with his we are so worth it, get a second job to afford us and listen to classical music as you turn out console on.
 
I probably should, but mods don't seem to care and it's 15 posts negative to 1 for xbox support, all the rest of the members who support xbox are afraid to say anything for fear of being banned for "console waring". And I say this as someone who plays more ps5 this gen than Xbox. It's not about bias, it's about some semblance of balance.

What would you have mods do? Not allow all these threads talking about all these various topics that have been brought forth due to his massive leak of Microsoft's own doing? I mean.....it just sounds like you don't want anyone talking about this. Fact is every one of these threads are about factual, legit news stories on their own.
 
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What would you have mods do? Not allow all these threads talking about all these various topics that have been brought forth due to his massive leak of Microsoft's own doing? I mean.....it just sounds like you don't want anyone talking about this. Fact is every one of these threads are about factual, legit news stories on their own.
BOOM!
Their true intentions have been revealed......
Along with Spencer(I don't believe in console wars) as a charlatan and hypocrite. Jimbo got a lot of flak for his stance time now MS got theirs...
 
I probably should, but mods don't seem to care and it's 15 posts negative to 1 for xbox support, all the rest of the members who support xbox are afraid to say anything for fear of being banned for "console waring". And I say this as someone who plays more ps5 this gen than Xbox. It's not about bias, it's about some semblance of balance.

Nah you need to blame Microsoft not Gaf. If they didn't leak that data none of this would happen. But since it did people have a right to discuss what was leaked.

You can't apply censorship just because you want to protect a brand. On this site leaks get discussed all the time and there's nothing wrong with that.
 
I particularly enjoy ignorant posts that label anyone saying anythng positive about xbox as a shill, or saying that ms trying to say anythjng positive is pointless. Yep, you are right, ms should just give up, and anyone on here that on the forum that likes ms should just shut up.

What a rediculous post, ms has 23 studios and is putting effort into game development.

These leaks have made it open hunting season on ms here and It's getting really old really fast. We get it, ms bad, Sony and Nintendo good.
You can put your cape up. Microsoft earned the criticism. a lot of empty promises over the years. the emails confirmed the suspensions about the company. So of course people are going to talk. Microsoft earned it in that respect.
 
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I don't really see the big deal here? A man has faith in his department's vision? I think all of the internet was basically telling us that Series X was more powerful at the time.

Very strange he thinks they had better software though.
To be honest, in terms of software (not games), Xbox is way ahead of the competition... things like Quick Resume, GDK and backward compatibility are platform defining for them, on top of that add some DX12 features like SFS and VSR, better VRR, etc. Xbox Series are great products and technically they're incredible.

Problem with Xbox I think are: Xbone fiasco, Regular to bad marketing when they're not trying to bully PS and sparse games release.

Hell we could even count the IPs they have as software advantage. Problem is they need someone that knows how manage their studios, maybe Bobby Kotick? IDK... Oh and stfu a little sometimes, they say too many inconvenient things while trying to look good.
 
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You can put your cape up. Microsoft earned the criticism. a lot of empty promises over the years. the emails confirmed the suspensions about the company. So of course people are going to talk. Microsoft earned it in that respect.
It's incredible how quickly Microsoft fans rally to shutdown any criticism of the them. We can't discuss Starfield, Microsoft leaks, or Phil's latest word salad.

Seemingly the only thing worthy of discussion from them, is some type of Gamespass worship thread. Everything else is some console war cop out shit. This victim schict is so tiresome.
 
It's incredible how quickly Microsoft fans rally to shutdown any criticism of the them. We can't discuss Starfield, Microsoft leaks, or Phil's latest word salad.

Seemingly the only thing worthy of discussion from them, is some type of Gamespass worship thread. Everything else is some console war cop out shit. This victim schict is so tiresome.
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it's really funny how these discussions go on these levels of management. Reminds me a lot how it goes in our industry as well...at a certain point everyone read the same books and most of those books tell you to keep it simple and describe it like a 5 year old would get it. You know, this is the point where OVERsimplificaiton isn't always good. Yes, dear management and senior management and C-Suits, we still need a bit more meat to the bone sometimes than just top 5 and 2 metrics per segmet.....it's not all that simple and you know what? This is where I love Cerny...
 
PS+ predates gamepass.

The biggest differentiator of GamePass and PS+ is day 1 first-party games, which Sony is still not doing. So not sure how Sony copied Microsoft here.
yeah, they has ps now but it wasn't that good (I tried/used it). now ps now is ps+ with 3 tiers and alot better? "Sony might be working on PlayStation's answer to Xbox Game Pass" from an interview with Jim Ryan back in 2020.

They saw game pass doing well and changed ps now for the better. Why I want competition between Microsoft and sony.
 
The only advantage which the system still has over PS5 on the software level is Quick Resume. It baffles me that PS5 still hasn't implemented something like that (don't bring up the activity cards because they're NOT the same functionality).
 
The only advantage which the system still has over PS5 on the software level is Quick Resume. It baffles me that PS5 still hasn't implemented something like that (don't bring up the activity cards because they're NOT the same functionality).

The cards are not the same but they slam you into a game real fast. In spiderman, the card will say "collect backpacks". Hit that instead of starting the game normally and boom the game is there and your save is loaded and you are playing in like 5 seconds. Nothing to do with backpacks, strangely. It just like you hit continue from the title screen. Not as neat as quick resume but it lets you start and continue a game real fast so there is plenty of overlap there. Especially with the frequency that games autosave these days.
 
Like microtransactions, and achievements masquerading as gameplay?

Honestly though I was never a Halo/Forza/Gears guy, I did like some of their old exclusives such as Dead Rising etc in the 360 era. Mostly I'm just salty that they own so many IPs and are mismanaging the shit out of their studios.
The hard drive, pushing for online gaming on console (taking what Sega had done and doing it better), having the best controller for three generations and releasing Elite controllers as well as offering us to cumstomize our own with Xbox Design Lab, the adaptive controller, offering cross play, back compat through three generations and of course Game Pass. And so on. They've done quite a bit. A small feature like Quick Resume is almost a game changer for me, since I'm always jumping between games and never play for hours on end.

Despite growing their first parry lineup substantially, games is actually where I think Xbox has been going backwards. That's just about to change but it's been a decade with very mediocre first party performance.
 
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The hard drive, pushing for online gaming on console (taking what Sega had done and doing it better), having the best controller for three generations and releasing Elite controllers as well as offering us to cumstomize our own with Xbox Design Lab, the adaptive controller, offering cross play, back compat through three generations and of course Game Pass. And so on. They've done quite a bit. A small feature like Quick Resume is almost a game changer for me, since I'm always jumping between games and never play for hours on end.

Despite growing their first parry lineup substantially, games is actually where I think Xbox has been going backwards. That's just about to change but it's been a decade with very mediocre first party performance.
It's like people have collectively forgotten that Xbox used to be good.

It all went to shit when they started to focus on the Kinect and Xbox One was the last straw.
But I remember the good days.
 
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