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[Heisenberg007]

This car and course in VR is a sight to behold. Videos can't really convey how VR + Racing games is the perfect combination.

This.

GT 7 + PS VR 2 + Racing wheel is a combo that's nearly impossible to beat on consoles right now.

 

[DJ12]

As if by magic.....

 

[SkyHighTrees]

This.

GT 7 + PS VR 2 + Racing wheel is a combo that's nearly impossible to beat on consoles right now.

I am waiting for the PS5 PRO, I'm a wise bro
Better visual quality just like GTSport VR1

 

[Turk1993]

Also one place where GT7 has a clear edge over FM is motion blur. Its bizzare that even the pc version doesn't have motion blur in cockpit view. In GT7 it looks excellent and clean.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

I'd love for Sony to kick them when they're down and announce GT7 for PC with killer trailer. Full RT in gameplay, VR support and all.

 

[Emet_bp]

Turk1993 RT reflections on cars are the same between replays and photo mode. Latter one adds RTAO and RT reflections to everything else, not just cars.
I think replay quality RT would be possible at 60fps at 1440p.
They could also make some optimalisation, like restricting RT reflections to our car and just a couple of cars close to the camera + just the track surface, excluding everything else around the track. Dynamic 1200-1600p on top of that.... a I'm pretty sure we could get to 50-60fps range (50 at rain with many cars on screen). With VRR I'm ok with that.

 

[Unknown?]

I'd love for Sony to kick them when they're down and announce GT7 for PC with killer trailer. Full RT in gameplay, VR support and all.

I'd rather a GT7 Spec II like with GT5 that really added and overhauled a lot. Bring back the track editor!!!

 

[JackMcGunns]

Well.. if more flashy "in your face" is better, then ok. I prefer more realistic look in GT7. Of course some things in weather is better in FM, and while tarmac in FM is overly shiny, in GT7 it is toned down a bit to much.
Also fog is nicely done in FM.

Same could be said for some of the paint finishes on GT7. People prefer super shiny in your face mirror like reflective paint than realistic looking finishes

 

[Markio128]

I'm not bothered about PD adding graphical features to the game, such as RT during gameplay, because I'm happy with how the game looks now. I'd just like them to expand further on the gameplay features.

I'd love GT8 to have a much larger campaign, similar to GT3/4, and to be fully playable on PSVR2 day one. Obviously, any incremental improvements to the visuals are always welcome, as long as they aren't detrimental to the gameplay.

I love being able to set my own parameters for single races, but I'd love to be able to set up my own cup of multiple races.

All the basic nuts and bolts are there, but building on the content for the next game should be the main focus. Tbh, there's no reason why they couldn't release a Spec II version with a more traditional campaign, and it probably wouldn't take that long to develop. I'd pay full wack for it any day of the week.

 

[Turk1993]

As if by magic.....

Turk1993 RT reflections on cars are the same between replays and photo mode. Latter one adds RTAO and RT reflections to everything else, not just cars.
I think replay quality RT would be possible at 60fps at 1440p.
They could also make some optimalisation, like restricting RT reflections to our car and just a couple of cars close to the camera + just the track surface, excluding everything else around the track. Dynamic 1200-1600p on top of that.... a I'm pretty sure we could get to 50-60fps range (50 at rain with many cars on screen). With VRR I'm ok with that.

Watch his GT7 breakdown, and see in which mode he was showing off all those advanced RT features in. Not everything he says is right, he made the same mistake with the car models 2 times in a row. He claimed that the in game car models where the same as photomode car models and start comparing them in photomode. He did it in GTS and GT7 which i already debunked him with that. Im not saying he does that on purpose or anything, he just didn't do his homework right.

Here watch them in fullscreen in different tabs and flick back and forth

See how the environments get full RT reflections, see how the reflections get higher quality and the V8 badge has high quality diffused reflection. Check the reflections in the wing how its reflecting more of the light.

Here you see how the reflections in diffused and reflective materials are completely off in RT replay in cockpit. Just see how the glossy black vents and part on the steering wheel reflect the dashboard and screen. Also see the diffused materials like alcantra and knobs/vents have accurate soft reflections which is absent in replay.

Here look at the wing and the reflection quality difference, just see on the lefts side of the wing the AMG badge fully sharp reflected while its not there in the replay mode. And check the matt silver rollcage inside the car how its reflecting the light perfectly while also missing in the replay. And see the side vents also how much sharper they are.

Here a car in full shiney chrome with chrome wheels to show the difference even easier

Also while moving just see how much noisy it gets (Forza has the same issues but photomode and standing still like the pictures above fixes most of this in both).

Cubemaps vs RT in motion

 

[Turk1993]

Turk1993 RT reflections on cars are the same between replays and photo mode. Latter one adds RTAO and RT reflections to everything else, not just cars.
I think replay quality RT would be possible at 60fps at 1440p.
They could also make some optimalisation, like restricting RT reflections to our car and just a couple of cars close to the camera + just the track surface, excluding everything else around the track. Dynamic 1200-1600p on top of that.... a I'm pretty sure we could get to 50-60fps range (50 at rain with many cars on screen). With VRR I'm ok with that.

With some optimalisation they could atleast get it to Forza levels quite easy maybe even at 1800p. But other RT features will be a bit too much i think. Because there are times that the 30fps mode is dipping under 30 with too much cars and stuff going on. Im sure they ar esaving it for the pro, maybe we will see some of the photomode RT during in game or in photomode liek the full environmants with RT reflections. I can't wait for the pro patch tbh.

 

[Schmick]

Yeh tracks rubbering in is pretty much a staple of every track racer that wants to be taken seriously these days, at least since the first project cars game.

Track rubber is in Forza, I haven't seen it visually though.

 

[demigod]

Same could be said for some of the paint finishes on GT7. People prefer super shiny in your face mirror like reflective paint than realistic looking finishes

Never set foot in an auto show or dealer showroom have you?

 

[Horseganador]

 

[Three]

How you make them gifs?

I've got something to show for GT7, folk claimed their windshield interior reflection wasn't real time...

Did you get an answer to this? It might be best just to upload the video somewhere. If you need a gif, one option is to use adobes free online tool

Free MP4 to GIF Converter | Adobe Express

Convert from MP4 to GIF in seconds. The Adobe Express MP4 to GIF converter tool is as easy to use as uploading, converting, and sharing in just a few steps.

www.adobe.com

 

[adamsapple]

Turk1993
SlimySnake

 

[Turk1993]

Turk1993
SlimySnake

How the hell did he get that pov? Is that close chase cam with pov set to 25?

 

[poppabk]

Turk1993
SlimySnake

What the hell is that view? Hood view with massive fov?

 

[skit_data]

All these comparisons are making me look up second hand PSVR2s online... they are starting to get dangerously cheap, almost worth getting it for GT7 alone.

 

[adamsapple]

How the hell did he get that pov? Is that close chase cam with pov set to 25?

No idea, might be PC because of the expanded FoV, the first video had me fooled for a good while as a real broadcast until he passed that car with the Sega livery.

 

[M.W.]

What the fuck is that Forza pic? Built from the dumpster up.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Also one place where GT7 has a clear edge over FM is motion blur. Its bizzare that even the pc version doesn't have motion blur in cockpit view. In GT7 it looks excellent and clean.

Why round things can't be round? Jesus. PC2 indeed still king at interiors.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

That's a disgrace

The new Forza should of been a real showcase for Series X. It's no coincidence Microsoft's platform marketing barely mentions Series X these days. Remember all that talk about power?

And I say this as a Xbox guy at heart, I hope a large number of the core audience holds off on whatever their next consoles hardware release is, let them prove it's worth and capabilities before handing them any more of your money.

Ninja Theory , who I love , better not attract similar negativity with Hellblade 2 given all the talk of downgrades lately.

 

[adamsapple]

That's a disgrace

The new Forza should of been a real showcase for Series X. It's no coincidence Microsoft's platform marketing barely mentions Series X these days. Remember all that talk about power?

And I say this as a Xbox guy at heart, I hope a large number of the core audience holds off on whatever their next consoles hardware release is, let them prove it's worth and capabilities before handing them any more of your money.

Ninja Theory , who I love , better not attract similar negativity with Hellblade 2 given all the talk of downgrades lately.

I'm sure the vehicle models in Hellblade 2 will be modeled appropriately.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

I'm sure the vehicle models in Hellblade 2 will be modeled appropriately.

Considering it has a go kart multiplayer mode they better be

 

[PSYGN]

I think GT7 looks more realistic. One thing I don't like with GT7 is the generous headlight or reflection glow -- maybe with HDR it looks better (?) but from my non-hdr screens they look too uniform and almost as if someone went in with Photoshop and added soft glow to them.

 

[Crayon]

I'm very familiar with that car and the gt version is uncanny. The weather seal around the lights is convex like piping just as shown. They tried to get that in forza but it's laid on top like it's caluking or something. And god knows what the material is meant to be. The real thing is foam rubber and should be squeezed into the gap like in gt here. It's actually part of the headlamp assemblies. The gap from the hood to the bumper skin is exactly like that. Zoom in on the glass for that inner light... note the text on it. It's all there.

And what exacly is behind the glass in the forza pic? Nothing? I don't even know how they came up with some of the smaller curves on there. Everywhere they differ, it's the gt one that is correct.

Seriously, someone compare that to a GT5 pic and see if it holds up.

Edit: typos yeesh

 

[SkyHighTrees]

Did you get an answer to this? It might be best just to upload the video somewhere. If you need a gif, one option is to use adobes free online tool

Free MP4 to GIF Converter | Adobe Express

Convert from MP4 to GIF in seconds. The Adobe Express MP4 to GIF converter tool is as easy to use as uploading, converting, and sharing in just a few steps.

www.adobe.com

I will make a gif, I think it fits more in the thread. Thanks for that

 

[nosoynadie22]

 

[poppabk]

I'm very familiar with that car and the gt version is uncanny. The weather seal around the lights is convex like piping just as shown. They tried to get that in forza but it's laid on top like it's caluking or something. And god knows what the material is meant to be. The real thing is fpam rubber and should be squeezed into the game like in gt here. The gap from the hood to the bumper skin is exactly like that. Soom in on the glass for that inner light... note the text on it. It's all there.

And what exacly is behind the glass in the forza pic? Nothing? I don't even know how they came up with some of the smaller curves on there. Everywhere they differ, it's the gt one that is correct.

Seriously, someone compare that to a GT5 pic and see if it holds up.

What car is it?

 

[Crayon]

What car is it?

That's a Toyota Celica from the late 90's. They came with a few hoods and bumpers. That set is from the top model.

 

[Utherellus]

Think there's a lot of misconceptions going around so I'm going to have to run defense for Turn 10 here.

It's not just Turn 10 making the game, they will be outsourcing stuff and that includes car models. There's a budget for that, and that's not on Turn 10. Each car will have its own time budget also, and that's not on Turn 10.

Sure the behind the scenes dev video from Turn 10 was a bit on the embarrassing side, clearly we're dealing with a whole different culture, but that imo will mostly affect design decisions and overall aesthetics, which not surprisingly are too loud and lacking class. But that's just a taste thing.

Pretty much this.

I've done some research a while ago about their vehicle development. They have been doing it since the beginning: Outsourcing car models to India and Vietnam.

These are the modelling companies who basically set the quality plank

 

[sendit]

That's a disgrace

The new Forza should of been a real showcase for Series X. It's no coincidence Microsoft's platform marketing barely mentions Series X these days. Remember all that talk about power?

And I say this as a Xbox guy at heart, I hope a large number of the core audience holds off on whatever their next consoles hardware release is, let them prove it's worth and capabilities before handing them any more of your money.

Ninja Theory , who I love , better not attract similar negativity with Hellblade 2 given all the talk of downgrades lately.

Meltdown incoming.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Pretty much this.

I've done some research a while ago about their vehicle development. They have been doing it since the beginning: Outsourcing car models to India and Vietnam.

These are the modelling companies who basically set the quality plank

I don't think it's a valid defense point, considering it's ultimately on Turn 10 and Microsoft to approve or reject the outsourced work.

If they're unhappy with it, they should have returned it and asked for improvements or change their outsourcing partners. The fact that Microsoft and Turn 10 accepted it, and have been accepting these poor car models for almost decades now without changing partners, means that they think the quality is fine.

Every AAA studio has outsourcing partners. 2,000+ developers worked on TLOU 2 when Naughty Dog only had 300 developers. 8 studios worked on God of War Ragnarok. You don't see any issue in quality there. Even the outsourced work looks like the premium "Naughty Dog quality."

 

[Utherellus]

I don't think it's a valid defense point, considering it's ultimately on Turn 10 and Microsoft to approve or reject the outsourced work.

If they're unhappy with it, they should have returned it and asked for improvements or change their outsourcing partners. The fact that Microsoft and Turn 10 accepted it, and have been accepting these poor car models for almost decades now without changing partners, means that they think the quality is fine.

Every AAA studio has outsourcing partners. 2,000+ developers worked on TLOU 2 when Naughty Dog only had 300 developers. 8 studios worked on God of War Ragnarok. You don't see any issue in quality there. Even the outsourced work looks like the premium "Naughty Dog quality."

Sure, I'm not defending them, in contrary, it's sad that they have chosen the simplest path.

I was very curious of their vehicle development pipeline and was very disappointed when I ran through that rabbit hole of outsourcing and model recycling.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Sure, I'm not defending them, in contrary, it's sad that they have chosen the simplest path.

I was very curious of their vehicle development pipeline and was very disappointed when I ran through that rabbit hole of outsourcing and model recycling.

I don't blame Turn 10 for using outsourced help, to be honest. I don't think a AAA game can be made today without seeking help via outsourcing. It's just normal business nowadays and not necessarily wrong.

However, the main studio needs to ensure that the quality is not subpar. If it is, it is on them and no one else.

 

[Elysium44]

I'm very familiar with that car and the gt version is uncanny. The weather seal around the lights is convex like piping just as shown. They tried to get that in forza but it's laid on top like it's caluking or something. And god knows what the material is meant to be. The real thing is foam rubber and should be squeezed into the gap like in gt here. It's actually part of the headlamp assemblies. The gap from the hood to the bumper skin is exactly like that. Zoom in on the glass for that inner light... note the text on it. It's all there.

And what exacly is behind the glass in the forza pic? Nothing? I don't even know how they came up with some of the smaller curves on there. Everywhere they differ, it's the gt one that is correct.

Seriously, someone compare that to a GT5 pic and see if it holds up.

Is that Forza pic on low details? It looks better in FH5 though still not nearly as good as GT7.

Here it is in FH5, also in GT5.

 

[Crayon]

Is that Forza pic on low details? It looks better in FH5 though still not nearly as good as GT7.

Here it is in FH5, also in GT5.

The fh5 one looks the same, except the material on the weather seal is correct. That's makes me think something was wrong on the fm one because that almost looked like it had no texture or material at all. Also there are at least basice lamps back there. That also points to something funny or unfinished about the fm one. The shadows are overall more flattering on the FH5 one, too. Just different, though.

Should definitely check to make sure that wasn't set to low detail, though. I'd how much that would effect the car in the showroom but it has to be something.

The GT5 one looks overall better short of lower geometry and the limited livery texture. Those were their opulent models they told Sony would be future proof heh.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Pretty much this.

I've done some research a while ago about their vehicle development. They have been doing it since the beginning: Outsourcing car models to India and Vietnam.

These are the modelling companies who basically set the quality plank

GT7 models are partly outsourced too (to Modeling Cafe). But it seems that PD is way more strict about the final results. It is also worth noting that post-2013 cars are modeled directly from manufacturers' CAD data and some interpretations of this data in Forza series is simply quite odd. Especially the geometry mistakes and wrong cockpit textures and materials.

 

[ShakenG]

Are all the tracks like this? or is this cherry picked to favour GT7?

"Cherry picked" Are we seriously doing this now? Forza obviously came out after GT7. Would it not be a slightly bit fairer to compare something newer on GT7?

 

[Negotiator101]

"Cherry picked" Are we seriously doing this now? Forza obviously came out after GT7. Would it not be a slightly bit fairer to compare something newer on GT7?

I'm not sure what you're getting at? All I'm saying is are all locations on every track more accurately built in GT7? Or is it the case that this is one area where GT7 is more faithful to the real world comparison and other areas FM would be more accurate?

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

I'm not sure what you're getting at? All I'm saying is are all locations on every track more accurately built in GT7? Or is it the case that this is one area where GT7 is more faithful to the real world comparison and other areas FM would be more accurate?

Even imaginary GT7 locations are in general modeled after real places with the correct skybox data and satellite positioning of landmarks. Real tracks are just consistently real. And that's why more tame tech-wise GT7 is always having an edge: consistency > raw tech.

 

[Turk1993]

The fh5 one looks the same, except the material on the weather seal is correct. That's makes me think something was wrong on the fm one because that almost looked like it had no texture or material at all. Also there are at least basice lamps back there. That also points to something funny or unfinished about the fm one. The shadows are overall more flattering on the FH5 one, too. Just different, though.

Should definitely check to make sure that wasn't set to low detail, though. I'd how much that would effect the car in the showroom but it has to be something.

The GT5 one looks overall better short of lower geometry and the limited livery texture. Those were their opulent models they told Sony would be future proof heh.

Its just cherrypicked in the worst lighting spot from the same guy who always does this. The GT7 scapemodels are obv. better, not arguing with that. But his Forza shot is missing reflections in the glass to hide the glass shaders and fresnel.

 

[ShakenG]

I'm not sure what you're getting at? All I'm saying is are all locations on every track more accurately built in GT7? Or is it the case that this is one area where GT7 is more faithful to the real world comparison and other areas FM would be more accurate?

Ok, apologies.. Most of GT7 tracks have felt like more of a upscale effort, getting tweaks here n there. Not exactly what you'd call new game worthy.
A few tracks however have been added to game that haven't been in past games and those are built from the ground up. Im guessing thats why it was compared, to help keep ot fair.
Sorry for jumping you so quick..

Turk1993 Thats definitely a lot better.

 

[Darsxx82]

Its just cherrypicked in the worst lighting spot from the same guy who always does this. The GT7 scapemodels are obv. better, not arguing with that. But his Forza shot is missing reflections in the glass to hide the glass shaders and fresnel.

He knows how to do his job very well.
The surprising thing is that some still take he seriously.

 

[Crayon]

Its just cherrypicked in the worst lighting spot from the same guy who always does this. The GT7 scapemodels are obv. better, not arguing with that. But his Forza shot is missing reflections in the glass to hide the glass shaders and fresnel.

Yes that looks better definitely. It's still a ways off the gt7 one but the starkness of the original comparison was mostly from an extremely unflattering shot.

 

[sendit]

To summarize:

 

[Turk1993]

He knows how to do his job very well.
The surprising thing is that some still take he seriously.

Yes that looks better definitely. It's still a ways off the gt7 one but the starkness of the original comparison was mostly from an extremely unflattering shot.

I mean those shots come from guys like those 2. I don't care about console wars or anything but guys like those (also the same shit on Xbox side) are just blind fanboys. They troll each other 24/7 on X and people here are using there stuff like its all legit.

 

[Gudji]

Man GT7 is like 2 generations ahead.

 

[Bunta_Fujiwara]