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Project Cars 2 enters the chat:

PC2 vs Forza Motorsport video comparison :: Forza Motorsport General Discussions

I recorded two similar videos today. One of Project Cars 2 from 2017 and the other from Forza Motorsport 2023. Track: Watkins Glen full course Car: Mercedes-AMG c63s Coupe Time: 10:00 Weather: Heavy Rain AI: 10 bots Resolution: 1440p 60FPS PC2: Maxed out Forza Motorsport: Can't max out at 60fps...

steamcommunity.com

 

[Closer]

We are not talking about frames. although DC plays good at 30fps
I am comparing photomode of driveclub to next gen racing games.
I would expect them to look at least as good or better

 

[Markio128]

We are not talking about frames. although DC plays good at 30fps
I am comparing photomode of driveclub to next gen racing games.
I would expect them to look at least as good or better

I haven't seen FM's photomode, but GT7's is awesome. I'm not very good at taking screen captures, but even I've been able to take some nice looking shots from replay footage:

 

[rofif]

I haven't seen FM's photomode, but GT7's is awesome. I'm not very good at taking screen captures, but even I've been able to take some nice looking shots from replay footage:

I need to get gt7 at some point

 

[djjinx2]

 

[Thirty7ven]

How...In God's name,do the Dev's NOT recognise how inaccurate most of the car models in this game/series are???
WTF guys......???

Think there's a lot of misconceptions going around so I'm going to have to run defense for Turn 10 here.

It's not just Turn 10 making the game, they will be outsourcing stuff and that includes car models. There's a budget for that, and that's not on Turn 10. Each car will have its own time budget also, and that's not on Turn 10.

Sure the behind the scenes dev video from Turn 10 was a bit on the embarrassing side, clearly we're dealing with a whole different culture, but that imo will mostly affect design decisions and overall aesthetics, which not surprisingly are too loud and lacking class. But that's just a taste thing.

We can also say that the push for RT and the obvious bs gameplay reveal doesn't come from the team, as surely they will have people that know exactly what is realistically achievable on an AMD GPU that is not known for being good at RT. But I'll bet you Xbox heads were more worried about getting a PR win over Gran Turismo than anything else.

Clearly they had a hard time optimizing for launch date, and Xbox wasn't interested in giving them any more time because as we've seen from the leaked emails, and unlike Xbox fans, the execs were fuming over the lack of first party content being released on Gamepass. So now you got games coming out before they are ready because Xbox is more worried about subscriber loss/gain than they are about anything else. They released Redfall after all. This is not on Turn 10.

Same goes for progression system, as Turn 10 will have been guided by Xbox analytic team on how to frame the progression system to play ball with their internal metrics, brought to you by Gamepass. This is not on Turn 10.

It is what it is, the whole pick two out of three, Fast/Cheap/Quality, or whatever somebody will know what I'm talking about.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

I want to see a GT7 PC release with VR support. I find it laughable that people here are comparing Forza running on a 4090 to a PS5 running GT7, and Forza still fails to have a clear cut victory.

Like I said, this is a bigger deal. The fact that GT stands toe-to-toe with it (and exceeds it in places - especially the cars), is telling. That is, less of an issue for Turn 10 and more of Polyphony's ability to craft such a graphically leading experience!

Also, interesting to see the latest comparisons. I've been calling it all thread as I play both. GT7 takes this. It just looks more natural! Forza has that "technical" edge going for it, but looks much more gamey.

 

[Turk1993]

Just going by what John said from DF.

He compared it in photomode which i also stated that it better there. I have tested the RT in replays, garage and photomode. I will post some comparisons for you to show the differences between those modes.

 

[Sanepar]

This is the new one?

 

[crackajack]

yep, those are features I would want people to bash their heads in about FM and GT. Maybe with PS6 and XBoxnext.

Still not super accurate, but at least something. Modifying tyre walls not behaving like concrete walls would make it even more meaningful. Wreckfest feels nice with all the garbage moved around on the track by the cars.
Especially with VR in mind, having truely horrifying crashes, would kinda change the way you play, because you have it in the back of the mind when something actually happens, more true feedback beside just lost time or dnf for an invisible car failure.

Maybe that's something that could be done at first experimental as some photomode/replay post processing "killcam" feature. Too much for the engine in real time, but in a replay add the actual outcome of your failure. Convert the typical bonk with an entire new calculation of what more realisticially happens.

Probably less important than the driving physics itself, especially since it is probably a lot of work to make it happen, for little to almost no gain in fun, but still interesting if we can get there in the future.

 

[Three]

Some examples may help mate?

The Silvia S15 has been a running joke in Forza for decades and they're still using that model in the latest game

imgur.com

Discover the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users.

imgur.io

More examples in the replies here that have remained

 

[solidus12]

yikes

 

[Musilla]

 

[rodrigolfp]

Project Cars 2 enters the chat:

PC2 vs Forza Motorsport video comparison :: Forza Motorsport General Discussions

I recorded two similar videos today. One of Project Cars 2 from 2017 and the other from Forza Motorsport 2023. Track: Watkins Glen full course Car: Mercedes-AMG c63s Coupe Time: 10:00 Weather: Heavy Rain AI: 10 bots Resolution: 1440p 60FPS PC2: Maxed out Forza Motorsport: Can't max out at 60fps...

steamcommunity.com

Things looks higher poly on PC2. The true build from the ground up current gen SIM.

 

[Markio128]

This replay view is awesome.

 

[Emet_bp]

He compared it in photomode which i also stated that it better there. I have tested the RT in replays, garage and photomode. I will post some comparisons for you to show the differences between those modes.

There is no point in that. Aside from the glass / transparent surfaces, RT in GT7 is miles ahead of the basic mirror reflections in FM. They are noisy like in 99% of games but are much more advanced... and that is why they are not in the 60fps modes. Maybe in GT8 they will make some more optimalisation and add dynamic resolution for a 60fps RT mode.

 

[SkyHighTrees]

How you make them gifs?

I've got something to show for GT7, folk claimed their windshield interior reflection wasn't real time...

 

[JackMcGunns]

Just a note, as many seem to think road surface in FM uses RT for reflections.
It is screen space reflections in FM.
GT7 uses planar reflections during gameplay and replays and RT reflections in photo mode, most of the menus and in the real time cutscenes.

Does it really matter? weather effects look better in FM.

 

[Kawaci]

Just check his post history thats all im gonna say .

his comparison is not wrong and that is what matters (of course, I also wanted to give credit to the original source)

 

[Klosshufvud]

Gran Turismo 7 has sort of an artistic beauty that is completely devoid in Forza. This passion for cars and racing is just brimming within GT7 whereas Forza looks fairly mundane in that regard.

 

[blastprocessor]

FM 2023

Real Life

GT7

Which track is that?

 

[Three]

Which track is that?

Watkins Glen international

 

[MadchesterManc]

FM 2023

Real Life

GT7

I've just noticed that GT7 even has the tyre marks perfectly lined up heading to the outside of the turn/barrier. Polyphony are crazy with the attention to detail

 

[Bunta_Fujiwara]

It seems GT has other than better cars ,colors,lighting,shaders etc. it seems to have more grass compared to XSX version of forza. Also trees are more accurate to the real life counterpart

 

[Bunta_Fujiwara]

I've just noticed that GT7 even has the tyre marks perfectly lined up heading to the outside of the turn/barrier. Polyphony are crazy with the attention to detail

Watkins Glenn looks so much better on GT

 

[Bunta_Fujiwara]

I want to see a GT7 PC release with VR support. I find it laughable that people here are comparing Forza running on a 4090 to a PS5 running GT7, and Forza still fails to have a clear cut victory.

Exactly lol

 

[Senua]

It seems GT has other than cars ,colors,lighting,shaders etc. it seems to have more grass compared to XSX version of forza. Also trees are more accurate to the real life counterpart

The rear Nissan badge is the correct size on the GT version too lol. Also I hate the wheels on the Forza version, it ruins the stance, they need to concave more.

 

[Bunta_Fujiwara]

The rear Nissan badge is the correct size on the GT version too lol. Also I hate the wheels on the Forza version, it ruins the stance, they need to concave more.

The forza model seems like one of theese chinese cheap car toys...idk what they were doing in those 6 years of developement

 

[Senua]

The forza model seems like one of theese chinese cheap car toys...idk what they were doing in those 6 years of developement

That picture is actually from Forza 4, and guess what...It's still the same! and the R34 is not even close to the worst of the wonky models

 

[blastprocessor]

I took these myself offscreen as couldn't believe the difference in interior quality.

FM2023 (Audi TT RS)

GT7 (Audi TTS)

 

[DJ12]

He compared it in photomode which i also stated that it better there. I have tested the RT in replays, garage and photomode. I will post some comparisons for you to show the differences between those modes.

Pretty sure he was talking about replays on the section I listened to, but we'll find out when his comparison video cones out. He said the raytracing is over the entire scene for one and also on rough edges. But keep comparing a game running on a 4090 to a lowly ps5 and still have it look significantly worse in areas if it makes you feel good.

 

[GHG]

Things looks higher poly on PC2. The true build from the ground up current gen SIM.

It was built from the ground up for PC by a community of car enthusiasts.

A lot of the stuff in that game is of very high quality and will stand the test of time.

 

[Horseganador]

The difference in the modeling of the cars and the materials is huge in favor of Gran Turismo.

 

[Negotiator101]

Watkins Glen international

Are all the tracks like this? or is this cherry picked to favour GT7?

 

[DJ12]

Are all the tracks like this? or is this cherry picked to favour GT7?

Do you mean realistic representations of real tracks and not ones jazzed up to please a small number of people that like to talk about the background?

If so, yes. All the real tracks are like that.

 

[Negotiator101]

Do you mean realistic representations of real tracks and not ones jazzed up to please a small number of people that like to talk about the background?

If so, yes. All the real tracks are like that.

So all tracks in all locations are more accurate in GT7?

 

[Three]

Are all the tracks like this? or is this cherry picked to favour GT7?

Not sure what you mean, like what exactly? Inaccurate?

Both GT7 and Forza have tracks that they have done at different times perhaps even generations apart so there will likely be some tracks that look better on one than the other depending on when they were done. GT7 is usually quiet accurate outside of some past texture blunders that they patch quick. it may have a track scanned at a different time/year so not be accurate to today. Forza is usually good too especially recently done tracks but they often take artistic liberties making things up as they go along.

 

[Mr Moose]

So all tracks in all locations are more accurate in GT7?

Forza seems to add some things that aren't there IRL, lights being one of them. It's not really a bad thing exactly, just not an accurate thing. They add some other details which makes the track look more fuller/lively. Tracks can look a bit boring IRL.

 

[a multicultural team of v]

Not sure what you mean, like what exactly? Inaccurate?

Both GT7 and Forza have tracks that they have done at different times perhaps even generations apart so there will likely be some tracks that look better on one than the other depending on when they were done. GT7 is usually quiet accurate outside of some past texture blunders that they patch quick. it may have a track scanned at a different time/year so not be accurate to today. Forza is usually good too especially recently done tracks but they often take artistic liberties making things up as they go along.

Watkins Glen is also one of the more recently added tracks, so it is probably even more accurate compared to some they may have done previously. I'd imagine Road Atlanta is also very, very accurate, though I don't know - though based on this I would say it is quite accurate:



edit: offtopic but this track was kind of meh to me until I did the Super Formula race on it, and now I love it. This and Watkins Glen have been two amazing additions to GT7.

 

[Emet_bp]

Does it really matter? weather effects look better in FM.

Well.. if more flashy "in your face" is better, then ok. I prefer more realistic look in GT7. Of course some things in weather is better in FM, and while tarmac in FM is overly shiny, in GT7 it is toned down a bit to much.
Also fog is nicely done in FM.

 

[Filben]

Now that I'm tested FM myself I got to hand it to GT7 in terms of overall and general appearance. In FM I see constant changes in LoD, pop ups and pop in, aggressive dynamic resolution making the image quality quite horrible at times. Any given scene, mostly in replays noticeable, though, is constantly changing. One time I had a whole car disappearing for a second, leaving only the tires visible. These kind of bugs and glitches I have never noticed in 100h of GT7 right from release but within the first 30min of FM.

GT7 is much more stable and coherent in terms of visuals.

If the downgrade of FM would only be a few cones or RT. But it's the aggressive auto scaling and dynamic rendering that's make it really look not on par with GT7 overall and in motion.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Stahn81 - Dude, whose alt are you?

Joined 18 months ago, not a single message posted on the forum, just full-on stalking mode.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Another deranged person there are so many.

 

[poppabk]

I've just noticed that GT7 even has the tyre marks perfectly lined up heading to the outside of the turn/barrier. Polyphony are crazy with the attention to detail

Or that picture is the exact one they used for creating their track which is why it matches do well. Like what are the chances that the exact same skid marks that will be constantly changing are on the real-life picture and the recreation?
I watched a YouTube video from a lap done 3 months ago and nothing looked like any of these shots.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Now that I'm tested FM myself I got to hand it to GT7 in terms of overall and general appearance. In FM I see constant changes in LoD, pop ups and pop in, aggressive dynamic resolution making the image quality quite horrible at times. Any given scene, mostly in replays noticeable, though, is constantly changing. One time I had a whole car disappearing for a second, leaving only the tires visible. These kind of bugs and glitches I have never noticed in 100h of GT7 right from release but within the first 30min of FM.

GT7 is much more stable and coherent in terms of visuals.

If the downgrade of FM would only be a few cones or RT. But it's the aggressive auto scaling and dynamic rendering that's make it really look not on par with GT7 overall and in motion.

This is the truth right here ..as far as console anyway

 

[sendit]

This car and course in VR is a sight to behold. Videos can't really convey how VR + Racing games is the perfect combination.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Like I said, this is a bigger deal. The fact that GT stands toe-to-toe with it (and exceeds it in places - especially the cars), is telling. That is, less of an issue for Turn 10 and more of Polyphony's ability to craft such a graphically leading experience!

Also, interesting to see the latest comparisons. I've been calling it all thread as I play both. GT7 takes this. It just looks more natural! Forza has that "technical" edge going for it, but looks much more gamey.

I think it's much more an issue for Turn 10 since Forza released 2 years later and most importantly, is a god damn next gen exclusive. So disappointing as a Series X player. They lied to us in trailers and even the RT reflections turned out to be more of a marketing ploy.

 

[Turk1993]

Pretty sure he was talking about replays on the section I listened to, but we'll find out when his comparison video cones out. He said the raytracing is over the entire scene for one and also on rough edges. But keep comparing a game running on a 4090 to a lowly ps5 and still have it look significantly worse in areas if it makes you feel good.

There is no point in that. Aside from the glass / transparent surfaces, RT in GT7 is miles ahead of the basic mirror reflections in FM. They are noisy like in 99% of games but are much more advanced... and that is why they are not in the 60fps modes. Maybe in GT8 they will make some more optimalisation and add dynamic resolution for a 60fps RT mode.

Do you think that the 30fps RT quality replays RT are the same as RT in photomode? Because most people here compare the RT because of johns video where he shows the RT in photomode which is indeed superior. But its not running real time, its not the same RT as the real time replay RT. They could have a RT mode in game with the replay quality RT at 1440p, thats plausible.

Stahn81 - Dude, whose alt are you?

Joined 18 months ago, not a single message posted on the forum, just full-on stalking mode.

Ah you have also a neophyte follower that gives you free laughing emojis lol. Rack up those points i would say .

 

[poppabk]

I was hoping Motorsport might get a VR mode down the line on PC like Flight Sim, but the focus on multiplayer and console parity makes me think that chance has dropped close to zero.

 

[bender]

It's not just Turn 10 making the game, they will be outsourcing stuff and that includes car models. There's a budget for that, and that's not on Turn 10. Each car will have its own time budget also, and that's not on Turn 10.

Approving outsourced work and implementing it into your game would fall on Turn 10. If their contractors are producing substandard work, they should reject the efforts until what is returned is satisfactory or find another production house that can produce better results.