Tom Warren Gamepass subs dried up on xbox consoles long time ago

Lol that 100M sub target Spencer needs to meet is the final nail in Xbox coffin.

It was obvious GamePass has a much lower ceiling than Xbox fans had hoped for.
 
Clear said:
Said it before, but I still think there's a fundamental misunderstanding at the heart of the whole GamePass strategy. The gaming market is just too disparate and divided in terms of interest groups for a Netflix-equivalent offer to ever work to the same degree.

You can't hook in all the sub-groups under a singular umbrella no matter how superficially value-packed the offer is. There's a level of commitment required to play games that simply isn't there with passive entertainments, and it gets wearying for the majority of users for whom there aren't enough hours in the day to try out everything.

And once that realization is reached... the value proposition stops looking so sweet, compounding the issues with retention.
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Haven't thought about it in this way. A very insightful take.

Thanks.
 
Just like banks...don't put your money IN the bank/xbox...buy the company instead.
STONKS
Put 16.99/month into MSFT stocks over the last 5 years and use your profits to game on YOUR terms

EChuC3j.jpg
 
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Streaming service for games should have to be really cheap to works IMHO. They could be a good deal on paper, but at any sales on stores I can buy so much games with 20€ that can't finish in one year of gaming as an average adult.

Series and movies can be enjoyed much faster, games not, especially today that games keep getting longer and longer.

Only time I subscribed at Gamepass was at first, I had like 3 months for 1€ or so. I downloaded some Yakuza games, I started one and after three months I still haven't finished the first one. Then it expired and I never subscribed again.
 
Bernoulli said:
The next xbox is supposed to come out in 2025 or 2026 so the design is finished at this point. He works with Microsoft so he knows
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Going with a two prong approach probably. One an entry level android based box for casual Andy's using cloud, other one is a traditional console for enthusiasts. Seeing as a large portion of the userbase is already on GamePass it makes sense offering a cheaper console just to access their subscription service. Especially seeing as Microsoft probably doesn't make a lot of money on hardware anyways.
 
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Opinion: MS is banking on AI, streaming content delivery/use, and an open eco system from mobile players (mostly apple).

Their new hardware plans point to that (just look at the controller). They have to assume that future users (not us....but THE CHILDREN) will expect access to all their content (well...currently available content anyway) WWH (when where and how) they want to access it.

Once the walls around Apple get demolished they will be there to drink in all the Tier 1 customers without paying that Apple tax.

They will have the PC market for folks that want "an authentic gaming experience" and their streaming platforms for everyone else (i.e. Blu-ray vs Netflix).

Will it work though?
 
Clear said:
Said it before, but I still think there's a fundamental misunderstanding at the heart of the whole GamePass strategy. The gaming market is just too disparate and divided in terms of interest groups for a Netflix-equivalent offer to ever work to the same degree.

You can't hook in all the sub-groups under a singular umbrella no matter how superficially value-packed the offer is. There's a level of commitment required to play games that simply isn't there with passive entertainments, and it gets wearying for the majority of users for whom there aren't enough hours in the day to try out everything.

And once that realization is reached... the value proposition stops looking so sweet, compounding the issues with retention.
Click to expand...
I hate Gamepass the way it is constructed and I am glad it is failing. I knew long ago that Day 1 AAA games being released on there wasn't sustainable.

However, I do feel that there is a place for a gaming subsciption service. A $7.99 a month/$50 a year that gets access to older games that are long past their prime in terms of sales is fine. Maybe put some smaller indie games on there. I think that sort of subscription service could work.
 
hinch7 said:
Going with a two prong approach probably. One an entry level android based box for casual Andy's using cloud, other one is a traditional console for enthusiasts. Seeing as a large portion of the userbase is already on GamePass it makes sense offering a cheaper console just to access their Subscription service. Especially seeing as Microsoft probably doesn't make a lot of money on hardware anyways.
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But...this is exactly the rumour of their strategy pre Series S|X
 
Miyazaki's Slave said:
Opinion: MS is banking on AI, streaming content delivery/use, and an open eco system from mobile players (mostly apple).

Their new hardware plans point to that (just look at the controller). They have to assume that future users (not us....but THE CHILDREN) will expect access to all their content (well...currently available content anyway) WWH (when where and how) they want to access it.

Once the walls around Apple get demolished they will be there to drink in all the Tier 1 customers without paying that Apple tax.

They will have the PC market for folks that want "an authentic gaming experience" and their streaming platforms for everyone else (i.e. Blu-ray vs Netflix).

Will it work though?
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If they're banking on streaming content then they are absolutely fucking retarded. Streaming has absolutely reached it's saturation point and is contracting. All of this has come out how none of these streaming services aside from Netflix has turned a profit.

I bet the number of Gamepass subscribers who exclusively stream their games is in the lower 10 thousands if even that. Those who do take advantage likely use it in a pinch when PC and Xbox isn't available. As a supplement and not the main platform.
 
Amazing how quiet Microsoft is about all of this stuff. Maybe they will clear up some things with the rumored announcement today.
 
What a week....

foamdino said:
Just casually dropping "next xbox is ARM hybrid" == streaming/mobile-phone-alike
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To be fair, the Switch uses ARM.

Would be wild if that's the direction MS goes with Xbox. It works for Nintendo for several reasons, one is they have always been the kings of handheld gaming.

Or maybe MS goal is just a lower cost console that can punch above.
 
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Kings Field said:
Already use gamepass on deck. The Xbplay app makes it run perfectly. Only problem is it costs $6 and to some people that's too much. I wish Xbox would have a native app however which I think will eventually happen.
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You are being malevolent, you know that streaming from a console to the deck doesn't mean having gamepass on steam.
 
Kdad said:
But...this is exactly the rumour of their strategy pre Series S|X
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That was before the Series release and recent large aquisitions. Which is/was a complete and utter unimmitaged failure (Bethesda). Starfield was supposed to spring life back into Xbox. It did not, probably did more damage than anything.

Series consoles are failing and brand collapsing. They need a complete change of strategy. I wouldn't be surprised if they done away with the Xbox brand altogether.
 
Porticus said:
You are being malevolent, you know that streaming from a console to the deck doesn't mean having gamepass on steam.
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I think I just saw a video in the last few days of PC game son 3DS via local streaming....who needs a Switch at all
 
JohnnyFootball said:
If they're banking on streaming content then they are absolutely fucking retarded. Streaming has absolutely reached it's saturation point and is contracting. All of this has come out how none of these streaming services aside from Netflix has turned a profit.
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Streaming as a technology is contracting?

With the amount of data people are creating, the ease of access to quality internet speeds and fast (cheap) hardware to access it, and JIT content delivery dominating social media and media consumption, I just don't see how that can be the case.

Maybe they will pull an 180 and start limiting their content to focus on quality over quantity, or....maybe they have so much money they just do not GAF and are happy to wait out all their competition.
 
Bernoulli said:
The next xbox is supposed to come out in 2025 or 2026 so the design is finished at this point. He works with Microsoft so he knows
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I'm sticking by my theory that there won't be another Xbox. This is it. Xbox Series X|S would be the last Xbox consoles. And they also (reportedly) canceled the refresh (which got leaked) because they are getting out of the console business.
 
Miyazaki's Slave said:
Streaming as a technology is contracting?

With the amount of data people are creating, the ease of access to quality internet speeds and fast (cheap) hardware to access it, and JIT content delivery dominating social media and media consumption, I just don't see how that can be the case.

Maybe they will pull an 180 and start limiting their content to focus on quality over quantity, or....maybe they have so much money they just do not GAF and are happy to wait out all their competition.
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Windows itself is going to be cloud based, at the consumer end, at some point (you can already run it as such they just haven't pushed that way, yet, for consumers)
 
StereoVsn said:
"You don't get growth by targeting console sales. Console sales don't matter."

Ahh, I am sure then PC GamePass sales are growing at tremendous rates. Oh and TV ones too (GamePass on Samsung TVs)! The strategy is foolproof!
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A person I know said just that, the TV market is HUGE because there's millions or billions of tvs out there.
 
Kdad said:
Just like banks...don't put your money IN the bank/xbox...buy the company instead.
STONKS
Put 16.99/month into MSFT stocks over the last 5 years and use your profits to game on YOUR terms

EChuC3j.jpg
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Not trying to go off topic but MS is probably one of the safest bets when you buy stock, right?
 
Guess what?!!! If you actually release some AAA 1st party games and some exclusive 3rd party games on GamePass then the subscribers will grow. There has been basically nothing in a year other than a good HiFi Rush, bad Redfall, mediocre Starfield and a niche Forza. That is it. That won't drive new subscribers. They are out there. I for one, would re-subscribe if they ever started coming out with new games......but they rarely have.
 
Only thing that guy said that makes any sense if "translated".

Is that gamepass subs have stagnated and console sales are dead.

Now what is really funny to me, is that anyone with half a brain would have seen all this coming two years ago. Now I just find it really entertaining watching people flip-flop and move posts.
 
JohnnyFootball said:
If they're banking on streaming content then they are absolutely fucking retarded. Streaming has absolutely reached it's saturation point and is contracting. All of this has come out how none of these streaming services aside from Netflix has turned a profit.

I bet the number of Gamepass subscribers who exclusively stream their games is in the lower 10 thousands if even that. Those who do take advantage likely use it in a pinch when PC and Xbox isn't available. As a supplement and not the main platform.
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Even Netflix is going into games. I think if you look at the data, more people are playing more and more games, and watching less movies and TV. And saying Netflix has turned a profit just shows that the one that went hard as possible 1st won. There's no guarantees in business, but it's not like it's irrational to try and break into a new market. Better to do that than try and copy Sony, since that's a nonstarter. That's what Nintendo had to do to survive with the Wii as well; take a crazy bet on an untested thing and see if it sticks. Tons of kids play only on mobile, or PC games like Roblox or Minecraft. They're making bets on a future that hasn't happened yet, but it might.

I don't know why people feel such confidence for the retail model, with $400 million dollar bets that could collapse a studio instantly.

Fortnite at this point is basically a f2p sub service with limited content. It might be the key to GP exploding with kids is making a $5 version with commercials. None of us know what will take off.
 
Yes, Tom that's why MS is looking to bring SOT and Hi-Fi Rush to consoles, because like you say Consoles don't matter *rollseyes*

There are dicks and then there's Tom
 
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Skifi28 said:
I am no expert, but if console sales don't matter who is going to subscribe?
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They are dumb over there at MS. I've always prefered Xbox to Playstation as a mainly PC gamer, since I liked their games more, the 3rd person cinematic action games that Sony made were starting to get old, but the path that MS is heading on, is one that I cannot follow.

All this ARM, streaming, subs future is just not for me. I can see where they are coming from, seems like their last desperate attempt to catch on to Sony, since on console games they are dominating them. And then you see Starfield coming out and barely making any news regarding new gamepass subs which was like their biggest possible game besides COD, like really what else is even there besides that on the horizon? nothing, besides maybe next TES...and still didnt do much for them. They are in a tricky situation but I really dont like the solution.
 
They talk about console sales, the next console being a hybrid streaming thing, game pass sub goals, etc.

But, the key thing MS is missing is GAMES.

Nearly every single first party game in the past 5 years has fallen somewhere between disappointment and disaster. Solve that too save the Xbox brand. Otherwise they're done for. And as a reminder, I love Xbox. I was one of the first Xbox Live subscribers and have owned every console. I miss the days when a new Halo was an event to anticipate for years. I miss a lot of things that Xbox used to do well.
 
Old news? Phil already said this back in 2022.

At a point you've reached everyone with console who wants the service.


 
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OverHeat said:
I have sub for less then a years before saying fuck this shit, it made me play less don't know why.
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The Netflix effect is real. When you have so much to choose from your brain just says fuck it and sticks to stuff you're familiar with rather than going through the trouble of trying 100 new things.
 
If console sales don't matter then how do you even grow GP? If a few bangers get released then they will sell consoles. And they would sell new GP subs. It's not that difficult. Why would they think console and GP subs don't matter? That is stupid.
 
JohnnyFootball said:
$16.99 a month really truly isn't a great deal. That's over $205 a year. No way I will ever consider paying that once my subscription expires in 2025.
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Yea and that 205$ a year is so and so at first glance, but then you realize that if you want to replay any game that maybe u liked while u got a sub, it might not even be on the services anymore (they get removed often after a time) and now you realize that basically you rented the game...and now you need to purchase it also if you want to enjoy it again. Its just bad man, we werent ready for this time of services tbh.
 
Xion_Stellar said:
They used to share console sales and then they stop doing that.

They used share Xbox Live subscriptions and then they stop doing that.

They used to announce Game pass milestones and haven't done that in a while.

At this point I'm expecting them to bundle all of the numbers I just mentioned into the amount of how many Windows activation keys where used in that particular year and try to spin that as a positive to their investors.
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I think the next "numbers" coming from them will be cumulative YT view numbers for all videos containing image/gameplay or mentioning a specific game.

---
Has anyone checked on SenjutsuSage SenjutsuSage ?
He might need some Prozac.
 
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Tiago Rodrigues said:
Not trying to go off topic but MS is probably one of the safest bets when you buy stock, right?
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Not that you should take stock advice on the internet but imo yep. I'm overweight on them for at least another year (given its a US election year) and I'll likely trim down the exposure to tech overall in another 12 months or so but the last 10 years have been a good run lol. I got super lucky though, as in 2019 I was already worried about how long the bull market had been in play and moved about 65% of my investments into cash...so I killed it when the covid crash happened. This might cloud my view.
 
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Tal Shiar Agent said:
Was it ever truly alive?
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If we're talking about money then the answer is No someone is free to correct me if I'm wrong but IIRC the entire Xbox Division has never been profitable from the get go.

They had plenty of revenue over the years and maybe even managed to crawl back from the red to be profitable but with all of the billions of dollars they just spent on Activision Blizzard there's no way they are profitable now.

If we're talking about games we can acknowledge that they had something going there during the X360 era until the Kinect rears it's ugly head in, the XB1 never really took off because they thought they could get away with destroying their customer loyalty by telling people they will enjoy Online DRM.

So far they have spent this entire generation waiting for their studio purchases to "bear fruit" but if you take into account that AAA games can take a minimum of 4 years to make now and with console cycles typically lasting about 7 years then suddenly I have to wonder if spending all of this money to purchase the studio and fund the games all for the sake of making them Xbox exclusive was a good idea to begin with if they would have otherwise received access to those games anyways.

And even now they initial idea of making all of these purchases for exclusivity is falling apart because surprise surprise putting your exclusives on a cheap subscription model that has stopped growing doesn't exactly position them for a profitable future so now they have to recuperate operation and purchase costs by going more 3rd party which defeats the initial intent of those studio purchases.

So I guess you can argue the brand isn't doing so good right now.
 
JohnnyFootball said:
"But...but...Xbox NEVER shares these numbers is my favorite response. They could be at 100M by now!"

Of course, they don't share them...because they suck. Business 101 - if you have success, you brag about it and convince fence sitters that it is THE product to get.
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yeah, I remember quite a few users acting like that back when Starfield released, they'd swear that Game Pass was definitely above 30 mil and that Microsoft was just waiting for the 'perfect' moment to reveal the news 🙄
 
In December during Christmas Jez, Warren, etc...denying all this, January begins and they already take off their mask, so the new strategy is to kneel and become a third party and that is now fine for Xbox, a few years ago Not weeks but now yes...ok, and while Spencer and Greenberg are hiding in the cave waiting for the storm to pass.

In the end everything was said about the mistake of a series S, the GP that that was not sustainable and so many other things for which they called you everything...we were right and it was time to pull out the cable.
 
I don't think Xbox is going to make a streaming only box. Relying on an internet connection to play a game is a terrible idea.
 
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