Support NeoGAF

[kevboard]

no way they have a case here.
this would set a precedent that would instantly make multiple other games guilty.

like, Mighty No 9? Bloodstained? these games are such extreme copies of their inspiration that they look and feel more like the real deal than some official titles in those IPs.


or what about 20XX?
literally Zero and X from TEMU

 

[Danjin44]

Look at that DQ to Pokemon comparison and tell me that's not the same artstyle. Did you play Palworld?

No they are not...Akira Toriyama artstyle is very distinct.

Are these two look remotely same to you? If you think so then I'm sorry you need glasses.

They only thing both share is both are bats.

 

[newtypepilot]

Nintendo's lawyers dont fuck around. If they waited until now to take action, it means they've got dirt on you.

 

[EviLore]

I don't think Palworld infringes on Nintendo's copyrights, from what I've seen. Infringing on Nintendo's patents makes even less sense. But if Nintendo filed, they're confident they have a case. We'll see.

 

[A.Romero]

TBH, Palworld has been proven to be outright tracing designs I'm not shocked at all

I see. In that case it's time to pay.

I'm not really familiar with either so it seems I was talking out my ass.

 

[HogIsland]

Fuck Nintendo, there's no basis for this lawsuit and they're going to regret bringing it. When Palworld prevails it'll establish precedent that Nintendo won't like at all.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Go nintenjas!

 

[solecon64]

Honestly, I'm with the multi-billion dollar companies on this one. The Palworld devs were flying way too close to the fun and just asking for trouble with their designs.

It's one thing to go "they have a bat, we have a bat", but tracing whole body sections from different pokemon and they mashing them together is just gross.

I kinda expect Nintendo to go all out on this one, as an example for everyone else. Because can you imagine if they lost??!? Creating the impression that it's okay to infringe on the largest entertainment ip in the world without consequences?!

There's no way the can afford to lose this one, the optics would be too damaging. They're going to be out for blood hard.

 

[nikolino840]

Ganbatte pocketpair

 

[Danjin44]

TBH, Palworld has been proven to be outright tracing designs I'm not shocked at all

Thats exactly my point....are Nintendo asshole compony just like any other compony? Yes but should I feel sorry for Palworld devs?....fuck no!

They should have design their own original creature design just like Atlus and Capcom (MH) but no they actively decide copy Pokemon so they use that IP's popularity

 

[donfonzie]

The timing of the lawsuit is very interesting. Maybe Nintendo is coming out with a new Pokémon game with the launch of Switch 2.

 

[HRK69]

Not really in this case. But nice try.

Spoiler

 

[cash_longfellow]

And so is other companies, you are mistaking thinking they are your friend.

They will do what it takes to protect their IP it doesn't of its justified or not and not just Nintendo, every companies will do the same.

I know they aren't my friend. One of the 1,000 reasons I haven't bought a NIN console since N64. This thread topic is another one of the 1,000 reasons.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

No they are not...Akira Toriyama artstyle is very distinct.

Are these two look remotely same to you? If you think so then I'm sorry you need glasses.

They only thing both share is both are bats.

Sugimori and Tajiri both played DQ as kids. Sugimori's old style was Toriyama inspired by who WASN'T back then. It's not completely farfetched tbh.

 

[Pejo]

Not that I have any sort of affinity or anything with Palworld, never even played it. Heck I'm not even much of a Pokemon fan.

But DAMN do I hate Nintendo's legal team. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

 

[Danjin44]

I know they aren't my friend. One of the 1,000 reasons I haven't bought a NIN console since N64. This thread topic is another one of the 1,000 reasons.

I dont buy systems or games based if the compony is gonna be my friend or not.....I demand and they supply, thats all there is to it.

Sugimori and Tajiri both played DQ as kids. Sugimori's old style was Toriyama inspired by who WASN'T back then. It's not completely farfetched tbh.

There is big difference between inspiration and just downright coping.


This doesn't look like "inspiration" to me.

 

[EviLore]

I dont buy systems or games based if the compony is gonna be my friend or not.....I demand and they supply, thats all there is to it.


There is big difference between inspiration and just downright coping.


This doesn't look like "inspiration" to me.

Doesn't look anywhere near copyright infringement by a legal standard or plagiarism by an informal standard. Only the eyes are directly derivative.

 

[kiphalfton]

Don't encourage Nintendo.

 

[Maestr0]

I completly forgotten that this game existed, it was big at first and then it just disappeared

 

[solecon64]

We're already 2 for 2 now. I feel like they're just doing weird shit now just to postpone the Switch 2 announcement

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Played the game a bit when it came out on GP and I was surprised by the similarities like the throw/catch mechanics and monsters that are virtually identical to some Pokemon. It's so blatant that a lot of streamers simply say they're catching "Pokemon". I'm amazed Nintendo hasn't already done this.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

every companies will do the same.

No one does, except for Nintendo.

From Software should be in the courthouse 24/7 if they were run by Nintendo lawyers. Even Hollow Knight, which has been copied ad nauseam in the recent years.

What's next? is Nintendo suing Sony for Astrobot, too? After all, the bot jumps and collects coins. And there's a giant monkey, like King.., oops, Donkey Kong.

 

[Danjin44]

Doesn't look anywhere near copyright infringement by a legal standard or plagiarism by an informal standard. Only the eyes are directly derivative.

I dont really care about the legal part of it, to me Palworld devs took the cheap way to create their creature design, which makes me have less sympathy for them.

And it not like they had no idea what they were doing, they actively chose to copy Pokemon style, they should have known Nintendo eventually gonna come after them.

 

[NomenNescio]

I find it hard to believe Palworld devs would've released this game without getting strong legal clearance by their lawyers, knowing how litigious Nintendo is.

 

[Musashipan]

Nice
I hope they win.
Naysayers were calling for defeat against all those switch emulator and we know what happened.
Good luck Nintendo

 

[near]

They're not suing for copyright infringements which the character designs would fall under, this is a patent infringement which would possibly be some sort of gameplay mechanic. If they had a case for the character designs then Nintendo would've shut that shit down a long time ago imo. I'm curious to know what this patent is.

 

[EviLore]

 

[Ribi]

lol .. they waited to make it worthwhile. That's cold Nintendo but I approve.

Except now pal world has the money to fight back and set a precedent against those bitch ass mfs

 

[StereoVsn]

Patent infringement is weird in this case since game mechanics are very different.

Also:

 

[Rentahamster]

I would like to know what specific "patent rights" these are. Legal Eagle gonna be eating good this next week.

 

[Danjin44]

No one does, except for Nintendo.

From Software should be in the courthouse 24/7 if they were run by Nintendo lawyers. Even Hollow Knight, which has been copied ad nauseam in the recent years.

What's next? is Nintendo suing Sony for Astrobot, too? After all, the bot jumps and collects coins. And there's a giant monkey, like King.., oops, Donkey Kong.

Difference Astro Bot might took inspiration form Mario games they still have their own distinct style.

I can't say the same about Palworld.

I personally dont fuck about both Pokemon or Palworld but maybe next time those devs should design their own fucking creatures.

 

[StereoVsn]

Except now pal world has the money to fight back and set a precedent against those bitch ass mfs

Yep, I hope Nintendo loses in this one.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Palworld was actually fun.

I had no idea why anyone would wanna play a Pokemon game when I did. Not into Pokemons.

So I guess am with Palworld on this. At least game is interesting and is doing cool stuff.

 

[ReyBrujo]

Hopefully we will know which patents have been violated to have an idea of how strong the case is.

 

[near]

Difference Astro Bot might took inspiration form Mario games they still have their own distinct style.

I can't say the same about Palworld.

I personally dont fuck about both Pokemon or Palworld but maybe next time those devs should design their own fucking creatures.

I know you're a huge Atlus fan and love Soejima's artwork. I don't want to go on a tangent but since you've had a strong stance on this for awhile. How do you feel about Atlus and Soejima using Hieronymus Bosch's work in Metaphor?

 

[tkscz]

A patient suit and not a copyright suit? Only way I can see them winning that is if Game freak was working on something for the Switch 2 and patient something for it before Palworld officially released or Palworld is working on content that leaked to Nintendo. Otherwise this would be a waist of time and money for both companies.

 

[cash_longfellow]

I dont buy systems or games based if the compony is gonna be my friend or not.....I demand and they supply, thats all there is to it.


There is big difference between inspiration and just downright coping.


This doesn't look like "inspiration" to me.

I buy systems based on my company not acting like Nintendo acts. If you think that is a blatant copy, that's on you. Similar colors, sure, but "downright copying"…come on now, you are reaching.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

What patents?

That's what we're all asking, and now this has become very interesting.

I thought it'd just be about the blatant character model stealing, but there appears to be more ...

 

[ReyBrujo]

I thought it'd just be about the blatant character model stealing, but there appears to be more ...

My bet is that they discovered Palworlds is using an EV/IV system giving numbers very similar to their own algorithms.

 

[Skeptical]

I love how half the responses here are nothing more than feeling based hot takes that have literally nothing to do about the case. I wonder how many times people have to point out that Nintendo said patent infringement and not IP infringement before those comments stop? There are gazillions of games out there that ape Nintendo's style and art. Some of them blatantly. Nintendo doesn't sue them. Maybe, just maybe, consider the thought that a company doesn't do such things lightly and might have a case?

After all, remember how this forum reacted the last time Nintendo filed a major lawsuit? Against Yuzu? And half the people were putting out hot takes yelling at Nintendo that emulation is legal and they are only doing it because they're crying that the games run better on PC or whatever? And then Yuzu folded immediately and it was obvious that Yuzu was literally stealing Nintendo's code?

It wasn't frivolous then. I don't read Japanese and I haven't seen this suit. But neither have you. But based on historical precedence, I doubt it is frivolous now.

 

[FoxMcChief]

 

[Dorfdad]

Hope Nintendo loses you can't copyright a concept

 

[Danjin44]

know you're a huge Atlus fan and love Soejima's artwork. I don't want to go on a tangent but since you've had a strong stance on this for awhile. How do you feel about Atlus and Soejima using Hieronymus Bosch's work in Metaphor?

Same way demon in SMT based on actual mythology.

I'm pretty sure there is story reason why "humans" monsters looks like Hieronymus Bosch's painting.

I dont personally see anything wrong with that.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Pocketpair and Sony announces a new joint venture company “Palworld Entertainment”

www.neogaf.com

Do you think this is what tipped the lawsuit into happening?

They'll still drain them financially via the long and drawn out litigation process.


I thought this was a hoax and proven false.

By who?

I know nothing about Japanese patent law, so I'd be curious to hear an expert take on this one. What's the likelihood that Nintendo would actually win this case, or are they just going for a settlement?

Not a lawyer, but: they're probably gonna settle out of court, and Pocketpair'll probably have to update some code and assets that were in violation or whatever.

Patent rights? That has me curious. I'm not familiar with how broadly Japan construes patent rights, but this is presumably not the claim that so many assumed Nintendo would bring against the Palworld devs back when the game first launched.

Yeah, it being a patent lawsuit kind of flips this on its side. So many questions.

-Can a company patent virtual assets, like character models?​

​

-Can certain game mechanics and systems be patented?​

I know that way back in the day, Namco patented the "mini-game loading screen" concept they used for early PS1 games, so no one else could use mini-games to hide loading screens unless they went through Namco. That patent expired somewhat recently (well, back in 2015).

So, if THAT can be patented, them I think certain mechanics/systems programmed in a game itself could also be patented.

Really makes me wonder how deep into Pokemon code Pocketpair went digging...

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

It was bull every time, one guy even massaged the results just to ride on the public adoration on Twitter. Same goes for AI accusations.




"This only matters to you if you ignored all the other actual 3D artists who literally already debunked this"

I don't think that actually disproves anything. That person who put the idea out there got caught up in semantics, and they might not have had any proof themselves when they started the speculation, but that doesn't mean Nintendo couldn't have found proof of their own in the meantime.

The potential issue for Palworld isn't if the model meshes are "exactly" the same; it's if they ever used any Nintendo/Game Freak Pokemon model meshes at all. They could have used those meshes, changed 99% of the mesh and slapped on different textures and be able to claim they're unique meshes, but that doesn't mean what they did was actually legal.

It's like reverse-engineering a BIOS; if you don't do it in a "clean-room" environment it doesn't matter how much of the code you end up changing. You still infringed on legal rights of the original code, and you're liable for being sued because of it. Could be a similar situation happening here with this patent lawsuit.

 

[digital_ghost]

Yamaguchi or Yamauchi?

Yagasuethee

 

[lordrand11]

What patents?

I see you are a man of culture that reads the articles as well

 

[nikolino840]

Except now pal world has the money to fight back and set a precedent against those bitch ass mfs

And they are working on PlayStation version so more money to come

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Isn't this the guy who swore Microsoft would be able to just acquire Activision Blizzard without making any concessions

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

It wasn't frivolous then. I don't read Japanese and I haven't seen this suit. But neither have you. But based on historical precedence, I doubt it is frivolous now.

Stealing Nintendo code is literally STEALING. It's not in the same league, not even in the same universe, as "copying" or making similar designs for a different videogame.

Nintendo is just butthurt because someone might eat their cake. That's the whole case.

I dont personally dont see anything wrong with that.

Metaphor is using the work of famous artists without permission or copyrights. This is a more blatant case than Palworld's. The difference is that you like this perpetrator.