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[James Sawyer Ford]

Its down to the people who do not work at the studio and claim this is bullshot to provide proof. Colin vetted his contact and disclosed the information. It is news, as simple as that. It's time for anyone who wants to come forward and counter his news.

He didn't do anything. He showed no receipts.

He even said "I'm not a journalist anymore" aka so I don't need to actually have due diligence, which is a big red flag. In other words, he would be unwilling to post his information as a journalist

No, the proof is on anyone claiming to know definitively to actually show evidence to break down that cost

 

[SEGAvangelist]

He didn't do anything. He showed no receipts.

He even said "I'm not a journalist anymore so I don't need to actually have due diligence", which is a big red flag

No, the proof is on anyone claiming to know definitively to actually show evidence to break down that cost

We missed you.

 

[DenchDeckard]

He didn't do anything. He showed no receipts.

He even said "I'm not a journalist anymore" aka so I don't need to actually have due diligence, which is a big red flag. In other words, he would be unwilling to post hid information as a journalist

No, the proof is on anyone claiming to know definitively to actually show evidence to break down that cost

In context he said he isn't a journalist so he doesn't hunt for these kinds of news stories. He let's people come to him.

He let someone from the studio come to him and he reported the news story. He did nothing wrong.

It's interesting to see his community attack him because they don't want to believe what he has shared.

Also, good to see you back dude.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

He didn't do anything. He showed no receipts.

He even said "I'm not a journalist anymore" aka so I don't need to actually have due diligence, which is a big red flag. In other words, he would be unwilling to post hid information as a journalist

No, the proof is on anyone claiming to know definitively to actually show evidence to break down that cost

I don't believe this falls on him to break things down

Personally I don't buy the 400 I think its much closer to 250 that the whispers say in my ear and I wont break down where that comes from I simply trust my circle on things like this

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

It's interesting to see his community attack him because they don't want to believe what he has shared.

It's a wild claim - most expensive Sony first party title in history, not including aquisition costs.

He should rightfully be scrutinized because it doesn't pass any sort of sniff test. Anyone who has played the game can see it's not THAT ambitious in terms of content and scope.

It certainly got him a lot of attention, and there may not be any consequences to him being wrong if the truth never gets disclosed, so he said why not share it? If the truth comes out and he's in fact wrong it definitely stains his credibility

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I don't believe this falls on him to break things down

Personally I don't buy the 400 I think its much closer to 250 that the whispers say in my ear and I wont break down where that comes from I simply trust my circle on things like this

If he stands by his source 100% it kind of does, or at least show that his source actually has authority on this matter

You can trust your sources but I don't know who has told you those figures either so it's all just speculation and rumors until proven otherwise.

 

[McCarth]

There is absolutely zero possibility that this game cost anywhere near that much. It's a laughable 'report' that is purely made for clicks. Welcome to 2024.

 

[ArtHands]

It'll be great if he could engage with those who refute his claims

 

[proandrad]

He does break down why the game was so expensive, and all his reasoning makes sense. The exact number of $400 is questionable, but the concord defense force coming out on Twitter completely dismissing that the game wasnt big of lost is hard copium. Games that spend years in development hell by large studios tend to cost a shit ton of money.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

He does break down why the game was so expensive, and all his reasoning makes sense. The exact number of $400 is questionable, but the concord defense force coming out on Twitter completely dismissing that the game wasnt big of lost is hard copium.

He says $200M spent prior to two years ago, then another $200M.

Without acquisition costs.

His reasoning doesn't make sense unless you believe everyone at a start up studio earns close to $700k per year.

You're not "concord defense force" simply because you don't believe in totally bogus and unreasonable accusations

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

He does break down why the game was so expensive, and all his reasoning makes sense. The exact number of $400 is questionable, but the concord defense force coming out on Twitter completely dismissing that the game wasnt big of lost is hard copium. Games that spend years in development hell by large studios tend to cost a shit ton of money.

The only thing that will shut down those doing damage control and spin is an exposé. The issue is that it will be coming from an allied outlet, so we know we'll be getting a heavily editorialized story

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

It'll be great if he could engage with those who refute his claims

this became huge. Im sure he will say something in his next podcast.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

There is absolutely zero possibility that this game cost anywhere near that much. It's a laughable 'report' that is purely made for clicks. Welcome to 2024.

It's deeper

 

[JayK47]

DEI is expensive. Lot's of sub-consultants in on the grift. It probably did cost $400 million.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Herman Hulst's prayer:

Concord wasn't a flop
And if it was, it was all part of our GaaS Strategy
And if it wasn't, at least it wasn't that expensive
And if it was, it didn't cause too much embarrassment anyway
And if it did, Fairgame$ and Marathon will vindicate us
And if they don't, blame the CHUDs​

 

[Raven117]

Good grief...who cares.

It was the biggest flop in Sony history. Arguably gaming history. What difference does the exact number make?

Fucksakes.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

$100s of millions over 8 years.

And the only copies sold were disc collectors and anyone on digital who didn't get an automated refund (maybe someone who bought a steam key).

You probably got a few hundred discs floating around peoples living rooms and eBay and that's it.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

DEI is expensive. Lot's of sub-consultants in on the grift. It probably did cost $400 million.

Even if there were no refunds granted, the estimate was 25,000 copies sold. At $400M cost, each copy would have to sell for $16,000 to make it whole.

Even if it's only $100M cost to make and market the game, each copy would need to be sold for $4,000.

And that doesn't include taking into account steam/brick mortar store cut. So you need even a higher price to just break even.

 

[proandrad]

He says $200M spent prior to two years ago, then another $200M.

Without acquisition costs.

His reasoning doesn't make sense unless you believe everyone at a start up studio earns close to $700k per year.

You're not "concord defense force" simply because you don't believe in totally bogus and unreasonable accusations

Game was in development for 8 years total, so they spend 200 million in 6 years. 200 million in 2 years more to outsource a ton of work with a tight deadlines, is completely believable, for a high budget gaas that didn't even have gameplay videos until recently. They were also working during the middle of Covid and that probably exploded cost. Even more believable with the faith higher ups had at Sony to throw funding at them. All while Sony was making panic purchases because of Microsoft buying Activision and they need a fps competitor for cod and overwatch.

 

[fred420170]

This is so funny.. Colin is the head pony and you all agree with everything he says as long as it's not negative towards PlayStation. If he's talking against PS you know Sony is in trouble because he will do any/everything to make them look good normally... Even he can't defend them...

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Game was in development for 8 years total, so they spend 200 million in 6 years. 200 million in 2 years more to outsource a ton of work with a tight deadlines, is completely believable, for a high budget gaas that didn't even have gameplay videos until recently. They were also working during the middle of Covid and that probably exploded cost. Even more believable with the faith higher ups had at Sony to throw funding at them. All while Sony was making panic purchases because of Microsoft buying Activision and they need a fps competitor for cod and overwatch.

The game was basically nothing until 2019

Confirmed by the devs that it was essentially a dozen or so people working it

"outsource work" doesn't justify anything, every game has that. Even assuming the outsource doubled the staff numbers, you're still telling me that they are getting paid roughly $350k per year for nearly 300 people working it for two years

It's 100% not reality

 

[ViciousAgenda]

Even if it cost 20 million to make, it's a catastrophic failure,

 

[proandrad]

The game was basically nothing until 2019

Confirmed by the devs that it was essentially a dozen or so people working it

"outsource work" doesn't justify anything, every game has that. Even assuming the outsource doubled the staff numbers, you're still telling me that they are getting paid roughly $350k per year for nearly 300 people working it for two years

It's 100% not reality

The budget of large budget video game doesn't just go straight to the people working on it. I don't know exactly how all the money is spent, but unless it's your job you probably don't know either.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

The budget of large budget video game doesn't just go straight to the people working on it. I don't know exactly how all the money is spent, but unless it's your job you probably don't know either.

That $350k figure includes the overhead you talk about.

Meanwhile we have tweets from Bungie employees complaining about making $70k

Typically overhead costs are 1.5x employee salaries especially in have development without much capital expenditure

So still nowhere close to $350k per year for 300 employees

 

[Evil Calvin]

Well, then someone didn't budget properly. That was a $20 million game at best. Some devs and CEO's were making waaaaay too much money.

 

[TGO]

I heard the credits are over a hour long

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I heard the credits are over a hour long

1 hour and 12 minutes and 30 seconds long

 

[proandrad]

That $350k figure includes the overhead you talk about.

Meanwhile we have tweets from Bungie employees complaining about making $70k

Typically overhead costs are 1.5x employee salaries especially in have development without much capital expenditure

So still nowhere close to $350k per year for 300 employees

You keep trying to divide the cost per employee and although it makes it easy to understand it isn't that simple. Take for example outsourcing just for cinematic. Blur studios was rumored to be paid 1million per minute for Halo 2 videos they made. Sony might have been planning overwatch style introductions for new characters. If you are planning 10 characters 5 minutes each that's an easy 50 million, and Blur probably would charge much more now than what they did for halo 2.

 

[McCarth]

It's pretty easy to google and see that Firewalk was a >50 person studio from inception all the way to the partnership with Sony in 22 (a year prior to the acquisition), and only expanded afterwards. So unless they went ham - somehow - during that time on massive infrastructure costs (which have capitalization and thus saying the 'game' cost $400m or x is disingenuous) there is simply nothing they could have spent that much on even if they wanted to.

The entire team must have Ferrari's or something.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

You keep trying to divide the cost per employee and although it makes it easy to understand it isn't that simple. Take for example outsourcing just for cinematic. Blur studios was rumored to be paid 1million per minute for Halo 2 videos they made. Sony might have been planning overwatch style introductions for new characters. If you are planning 10 characters 5 minutes each that's an easy 50 million, and Blur probably would charge much more now than what they did for halo 2.

I accounted for outsourcing by nearly doubling the headcount compared to firewalk's peak employee numbers

And the numbers are still wildly unrealistic

 

[DenchDeckard]

From that video shared on this last page it seems like an orchestrated money laundering scheme by ex bungie and bungie employees.

 

[FrankWza]

DEI is expensive. Lot's of sub-consultants in on the grift. It probably did cost $400 million.

As much as I agree with the first two, I still think 4 is a high number. The good news is that more and more big brands are beginning to distance themselves and they are doing it publicly.

 

[proandrad]

I accounted for outsourcing by nearly doubling the headcount compared to firewalk's peak employee numbers

And the numbers are still wildly unrealistic

That's fine, I just think there isn't enough information to go one way or another.

 

[Rentahamster]

It's pretty easy to google and see that Firewalk was a >50 person studio from inception all the way to the partnership with Sony in 22 (a year prior to the acquisition), and only expanded afterwards. So unless they went ham - somehow - during that time on massive infrastructure costs (which have capitalization and thus saying the 'game' cost $400m or x is disingenuous) there is simply nothing they could have spent that much on even if they wanted to.

The entire team must have Ferrari's or something.

Google Firewalk's parent company too. The entire machine isn't just Firewalk in a vacuum.

 

[BlitzerRadic]

The budget of large budget video game doesn't just go straight to the people working on it. I don't know exactly how all the money is spent, but unless it's your job you probably don't know either.

The vast majority of the budget is spent on employee salaries. Look at the leaked insomniac SM 2 budget.

Anyone who thinks concords budget was 400m is a clown when we have actual data from a Sony AAA game to compare it to..

 

[violence]

Maybe the employee factored in the price of the company into that 400 million. I know Colin said otherwise but who knows.

 

[proandrad]

The vast majority of the budget is spent on employee salaries. Look at the leaked insomniac SM 2 budget.

Anyone who thinks concords budget was 400m is a clown when we have actual data from a Sony AAA game to compare it to..

Here we go again, Insomniac Games is a well oiled machine and is ran very well. It is a terrible comparison because they clearly know what they are doing and firewalk did not.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Here we go again, Insomniac Games is a well oiled machine and is ran very well. It is a terrible comparison because they clearly know what they are doing and firewalk did not.

How do we know that firewalk wasn't efficient?

The game was solid when it comes to playability, no bugs or net code issues I ever ran into

Again, we can all point at Firewalk for things they didn't do well, like character art or lack of progression, without having to say they are terrible all around. The game plays solidly

 

[EviLore]

How do we know that firewalk wasn't efficient?

Because 2000 people worked on a project that could've been made by a team of 10.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Because 2000 people worked on a project that could've been made by a team of 10.

2,000 using credits where everyone that did any kind of back end function was listed no matter how much they actually contributed (like many games)

their actual team size seems consistent with new IP development + live service focus, peaking out at a much higher level during the last phase of production.

Much of the bloat that exists is likely down to the CGI focus which was a big misstep and completely unnecessary for live service where nobody cares.

So yes, somewhat bloated and excessive but live service doesn't mean a small team these days

Arrowhead studio is nearly the same size, obviously a more talented and established team in comparison but they didn't use hardly any resources on cinematics so that's a pretty high dev count for just core game

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Our boy James is putting in extra hours. I commend his effort

 

[FoxMcChief]

Because 2000 people worked on a project that could've been made by a team of 10.

 

[Green_Eyes]

The investment into woke is insanity.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The investment into woke is insanity.

Japan straight regretting housing the HQ in California. They're going to start reeling some of that back in.

 

[DragonNCM]

No chance this cost 400 million $. I don't believe in that.
But hey....I know now why PS5Pro is 800Euro & 700$.
Someone need to fill gap from huge hole that Concord left.
Guess who will fill that gap..................

 

[Esppiral]

Who got all that money? The developers sure don't have that astronomical weight, the professor? They didn't even spent too much on marketing...

 

[Esppiral]

Hermen Hulst is a fucking retard confirmed.

Hasn't this game been in development while Jimbo was on charge?

 

[clarky]

Our boy James is putting in extra hours. I commend his effort

Been a free reign for everyone to go wild whilst he was out of action. We went from under 100million to 400 or more without him keeping everything in check.

Number seems to be coming down by the hour last i checked it was a more reasonable consensus of 250mill and the boys only been back in town a few hours.

James will have it back to under 100 before the end of his shift you'll see.

 

[loktaiextatus]

I work at a company too, I am reasonably high up in the actual operation and service delivery side of the company and deal directly or talk to people who are dealing directly with department heads and people doing things like onboarding or deploying new solutions into the company - or property acquisition and for instance building our new headquarters - and so I am an ear which would hear a LOT- and even I could not with confidence walk up and tell you what the total cost of something is- So what I am saying is- this GUY who is being sourced- logically- in the way a games company works, has to be PRETTY high up in order to be a real source for something like "TOTAL spend to develop the game. There are some extra factors involved like- is this total spend, is this THE LOSS - because we keep saying COLIN misheard COLIN misunderstood- without ever asking if this PERSON understood. Did this person hear "Sony lost 400 million in projected profits" and now is saying "Concord cost SONY 400 million"... or is this person DEAD ACCURATE ? If the person is dead accurate then I think this person also knows more details and Colin would be able to spill those details because unless this person is the ONLY person who knows those details it means people in the company are not going to call out one person if they leak..... I AM JUST SAYING I'll believe Sony lost 400 million on projected profit because this is GAAS- But to think it cost 400 million out the door to make and people keep pointing out CGI as if no games have had CGI before so it will make it one of the most expensive games ever made - I for one will be waiting to confirm the info before assuming its right- because Sony as stupid as a corporation may be- I doubt was just SPOONING out 10 million at a time monthly to this company to hit a number like this without asking questions or having someone intervene. Sony has closed companies and cancelled projects from established studios in the past - they aren't afraid to prune the tree.

 

[rubenburgt]

I'm sorry, but WHAT?

Is this a normal budget for a video game, or has Sony been brain-dead when Concord got pitched?

This is a serious question btw. What is actually a normal budget for a triple A game?

Because if this budget is ridiculously high, then I'm pissed that they didn't brought killzone or infamous back instead.