Im hoping they have a 30fps mode with significantly better visual fidelity because chasing 60fps and possibly close to 4k resolutions has affected detail big time.
Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
All I see is dark void. Looks like they forgot to add lights
GymWolf
Member
The damage system was completely random at least in the ps5 demo.I will say Matrix demo had an obscene amount of cars & NPCs on screen that I don't think has been beaten by any other game to this day, Spider Man 2 comes to mind though, that game had a crazy amount of cars & NPCs on screen!
Also those cars in Matrix are all interactable with very impressive physics & deformation systems, next-gen dare I say.
I crashed cars for 30 min and you had huge damage after small bumbs and no damage after huge crashes, it wasn't fine tuned at all.
And the npcs were zombies woth no interaction whatsoever.
That thing is a full on tech demo, never think for a moment that it was close to a real game.
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H . R . 2
Member
of course it is, but could it never be turned into a game? the tech is there [he number of NPCs, the physics, the animation system, destruction, day and nigh cycle, etc.]
just needs adjustments and tweaks and further development, the latest version of UE5 even features Megalights now and a ton more over the Matrix's UE5
but again, we only bring The Matrix Demo up from time to time to acknowledge how great a technical achievement it was and still is
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GymWolf
Member
All the things that miss are heavy to introduce, and the game was like 30 fps at 1440p on ps5 already.
Not sure if these consoles can have that fidelity and all the open world system in place and still decently run the game.
GymWolf
Member
No offense but anyone with eyes can understand that without any wall of text.
All modern games are great looking, doom is gonna look great aswell, but in this topic we look at "just great looking games" from the rear view mirror.
This is a topic about graphic excellency.
Gonzito
Gold Member
Lethal01
Member
It's a topic about what we expected from PS5/XSX hardware and what we got, for me its matching up pretty well. Sadly its always filled with people who are mad reality did not give em more.
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GymWolf
Member
Sure, and people have the freedom to say what game looks better, dark ages unfortunately looks worse than many other games.
PeteBull
Member
Matrix demo could dip below 20fps actually, and no, it was well below 1440p, and even then internal resolution for that temporar supersampling was about 1/3rd of final output resolution
Ughhh cyberpunks 2018 trailer is definitly bullshit and looks still alot smoother than even pt mode.There are downgrades and there are downgrades.
Watch Dogs? Massive Downgrade.
Witcher 3? Entire Rendering Pipeline changed.
Uncharted 4? 1080p 60 fps realtime? Get fucked ND.
TLOU2? Faked character models, animations, etc.
HFW? Pre-rendered trailer passed off as realtime.
Spiderman 2? Pre-rendered trailer passed off as realtime.
GTA6 has gotten an upgrade, and even if it gets downgraded, it will be minor changes here and there.
Rockstar will release bullshots. They will release carefully scripted and perfectly lit gameplay sequences as cinematics. They will hide aliasing as best as they can. but they are not disingenuous hacks like Insomniac, ND, and GG who literally script and create fake shit for trailers and gameplay.
Even Ubisoft and CD Project no longer bullshits. AC Shadows, Avatar, Cyberpunk all looked better than their reveals thanks mostly to ray tracing basically allowing them to do what Sony studios try to do in their fake pre-rendered trailers.
Bojji
Member
You sure?
Final game looked better in most areas and with PT it demolishes it. Only downgrade is crowd density.
BTW: 2018 "trailer" (gameplay demo) was running on 1080ti.
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analog_future
Resident Crybaby
Anyone play DOOM yet? I'm not touching it until it receives the path tracing update.
I meant the trailer. Not the gameplay demoYou sure?
Final game looked better in most areas and with PT it demolishes it. Only downgrade is crowd density.
BTW: 2018 "trailer" (gameplay demo) was running on 1080ti.
Bojji
Member
Trailer? Didn't everything before gameplay demo was just CG? I don't remember to be honest...
They showed real gameplay in 2018 so whatever trailer was showing was irrelevant. 2 years before release we had real gameplay demo.
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yamaci17
Member
i'm finally done with avowed as well. overall I was happy that I could use hardware lumen here and not stuck with software lumen like black myth wukong. I could get decent FPS with full ray tracing in black myth wukong but it constantly stutters then
draw distance and detail quality was superb at times. hardware lumen makes reflections really impressive as well
gta 6 will demolish all but considering the budget of obsidian, this is insane. so for that I really appreciate ue 5 here. I remember playing outer worlds and it looked outdated back then.
ue5 is an insane baseline for sure
I will now play necromunda hired gun, a ue4 game before doom dark ages. it looks so outdated that it will make doom dark ages look like best thing ever
draw distance and detail quality was superb at times. hardware lumen makes reflections really impressive as well
gta 6 will demolish all but considering the budget of obsidian, this is insane. so for that I really appreciate ue 5 here. I remember playing outer worlds and it looked outdated back then.
ue5 is an insane baseline for sure
I will now play necromunda hired gun, a ue4 game before doom dark ages. it looks so outdated that it will make doom dark ages look like best thing ever
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I was talking about the gameplay demo.
mrMUR_96
Member
These screenshots look great and also quite bad at the same time, Obsidian never really quite got the hang of visuals at all imo.i'm finally done with avowed as well. overall I was happy that I could use hardware lumen here and not stuck with software lumen like black myth wukong. I could get decent FPS with full ray tracing in black myth wukong but it constantly stutters then
draw distance and detail quality was superb at times. hardware lumen makes reflections really impressive as well
gta 6 will demolish all but considering the budget of obsidian, this is insane. so for that I really appreciate ue 5 here. I remember playing outer worlds and it looked outdated back then.
ue5 is an insane baseline for sure
I will now play necromunda hired gun, a ue4 game before doom dark ages. it looks so outdated that it will make doom dark ages look like best thing ever
Yeah I just meant the trailer they first showed.
Msamy
Member
As expected those graphics quality definitely needs more time
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analog_future
Resident Crybaby
As expected those graphics quality definitely needs more time
This and Hellblade II are the only games I've seen that put up a fighting chance against GTA VI's visuals.
Msamy
Member
Gonna be great competition next year between gta vi and marvel 1943 for graphics king for this gen
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yep aside from crowd density, the game got a lot of visual upgrades.You sure?
Final game looked better in most areas and with PT it demolishes it. Only downgrade is crowd density.
BTW: 2018 "trailer" (gameplay demo) was running on 1080ti.
I remember them not wanting to show this publicly after the witcher 3 downgrades so they only showed this 50 minute demo to the press at E3 but it got leaked and went viral so two months later, they officially released it but with a huge disclaimer saying it might not look like this. They also said that it was running at 1080p 30 fps on a 1080 Ti which is basically equivalent to a 2080 or a PS5 without RT. PS5 runs it at 1440p internal resolution with FSR2 reconstruction and rt shadows. The 60 fps mode runs at 1080p 60 fps without rt so they actually doubled the framerate AND improved the visuals.
They never shouldve released this on last gen consoles. it only brought them bad press.
Bojji
Member
First trailer was from 2012, it was 100% CG and was meant to hire people for the project. Game was before pre production even...
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
it might not be fine tuned since it was a small demo made by like 20 people, but the chaos physics were used and everything there is physics based.
i tested this during the scripted chase sequence which i was convinced had canned physics and crashes but you can choose which cars to shoot and which wheels to destroy, and the destruction was so precise that if you triggered a car crash, and there were cars next to it, they would be impacted by it.
its possible that some of the damage modeling was bugged. i also recall seeing some crashes only resulting in minor bumps and dents, but 95% of the time they were accurate and brutal thanks to physics that were 100% accurate.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
he's talking about this trailer. it was pre-rendered using ingame assets, not unlike witcher 4's trailer. he's right in that, its possible that we might not get the visuals we saw at the witcher 4 reveal.
Bojji
Member
But it's not gameplay trailer, just buch of custom cinematics (most of them are not in the game).
To me stuff like this is no different than CG trailer, I don't have expectations based on stuff like that.
NOW, compare this to Watch Dogs, Killzone 2 where they said what they showed was gameplay, massive downgrade later. The Witcher 3 trailer was a mix of cinematics and gameplay parts so that was a massive downgrade too, they lied. Same story with Naughty dog, two times they showed fake gameplay for the last of us 1 and 2, but "fake" part was mostly based on Ai and interactions and not graphics quality.
With CP2077 CDPR mostly delivered, in 2020 it was the best looking game and it only got better with PT update. I wonder if The Witcher 4 will look like that on PC or it's bullshit like with TW3...
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GymWolf
Member
They must have fixed some shit because when i played the demo it wasn't 95% of the times correct or even close to that percentage, it's the only clear as day thing i rememeber from the demo, i was rather unimpressed, and crashing cars is THE ONLY THING i did in the demo, 30 min of uninterrupted crashing to test the damage system, i didn't played with the bird eye camera or tested the traffic or anything jist crashing cars at high speed.it might not be fine tuned since it was a small demo made by like 20 people, but the chaos physics were used and everything there is physics based.
i tested this during the scripted chase sequence which i was convinced had canned physics and crashes but you can choose which cars to shoot and which wheels to destroy, and the destruction was so precise that if you triggered a car crash, and there were cars next to it, they would be impacted by it.
its possible that some of the damage modeling was bugged. i also recall seeing some crashes only resulting in minor bumps and dents, but 95% of the time they were accurate and brutal thanks to physics that were 100% accurate.
And the damage system is nowhere as good or dynamic as something like beam ng or wreckfest from what i remember, but i guess that's normal, those are dedicated crash test demo basically.
I'm very curious to see the damage system of gta6.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
It's UE5 with path tracing. it will look very close but obviously not as CG.
They already confirmed the trailer was using in-game assets.
GymWolf
Member
What are the impossible things in that trailer? The effects of the magic?
Because i swear asset wise and characters wise hb2 already beat that trailer.
I have an hunch that it's gonna look even better than the trailer because that graphic in 2028-30 is not gonna wow anyone, the game is nowhere near its release date.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Doom is sub 1080p 60 fps on base PS5 during combat, and roughly 1080-1200p during regular traversal. A huge drop from the 1800p 60 fps indiana jones on the same engine. The PS5 pro is only around 1440p despite drops below 60, while indy was running at native 4k 60 fps locked. Great to see real devs utilize the GPU and put in higher quality RT, and virtualized geometry despite being forced to target 60 fps.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
that entire fight is full of pristine visual effects you are never going to see even in realtime cutscenes because they are so expensive to render. they wouldnt have pre-rendered it if they couldve run it realtime on a 5090.
Fire effects, volumetric fog effects, and certain depth of field, volumetric effects and motion blur is too pristine even for realtime path traced cutscenes. It will look far more gamey when it releases, but the character models, lighting (minus those effects i mentioned earlier) and world level of detail/textures/assets should come very close. it will probably run at 1080p 30 fps on the base PS5 and will likely be a PS6 launch title. For some reason, sony seems hellbent on launching the PS6 in 2027 which i find bizarre because the gen has barely started and consoles are more expensive than ever.
maybe they signed a contract with AMD who have signed a contract with TSMC and HAVE to release a new console or lose their spot in the line. But at least we should get a non-downgraded experience on consoles day one.
GymWolf
Member
Don't you think the game is gonna look underwhelming with this exact same graphic in 2028-30? Why do you say very close? Is this already the limit of the next-nextgen graphic? It can't be...
Don't you think hb2 already beat its ass characters\assets wise?
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
hell no. it will look amazing in 2027.. I dont think its the limit of next gen graphics. Im just saying it will have all bells and whistles on PS6, instead of a downgrade. lets hope ps6 can do path tracing.
hb2 beats it in character modeling but it also had a max of maybe 4 characters on screen. the first scene alone has like 50.
GymWolf
Member
2027 is extremely optimistic dude.
The game is 100% next-nextgen on ps6.
They would have showed a fake gameplay trailer like they did with w3 if they had something to show.
Schmendrick
Member
Don`t forget that the node progress in the semiconductor realm has massively slowed down.
I´d not necessarily bank on 2028 hardware being more than ~20-30% faster on average than what we have now, and something like CP2077 with its anemic reconstructed PT active, or a linear comparatively small scope game like Wukong is still pushing current top end hardware very hard.
The volumetric reactive fog + pt lighting as seen in that trailer would probably already kick a 5090 in the nuts in real time, especially with that kind of pristine picture stability.
I´d say that we better hope CDPR continues with their PC first strategy because what we`ve seen is definitely beyond the current gen consoles. It kinda looks like another CP2077 situation to me. The Tech is pretty much targeting next gen/pc hardware while the PS5 will still get a version that`s probably gonna suck donkey dick.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
the game still took 6 years. double that of the first game. So its not even the easy way out. GoT2 took 5 years. So did HFW. Cross gen trash Ranorak took 4.5 years. GT7 4.5 years. Intergallactic 7 years.
Insomniac might be the one who can be excused for taking the easy way out because they've always liked to rush shit out every 2 years, and yet they are the only ones to have ray tracing in their games lol.
I think it's sheer complacency. We see this with nintendo. Nintendo told its developers that hey we can release garbage looking titles for $70 and $80 and they will still sell. I bet Herman and Jimbo told Sony studios the same thing. The fact that its happened at every single studio means its a publisher wide directive. They mismanaged the studio into being unproductive as fuck, and as always blamed the graphics when in fact, other studios have had zero issues releasing games with next gen graphics features.
Classic case of execs blaming others for their own ineffective management.
GymWolf
Member
Sad state of affair if this is the limit of what we are gonna see in the next 10 years.
Schmendrick
Member
Look at a chart of the wafer prices over the last 10 years. We better pray to the KI gods to save us, because silicon scaling is over.
GymWolf
Member
2 iterative sequels and relatively small games (sp2 is a small open world game in term of content and rift apart is probably the shortest ratchet game) are not that impressive.
Having spiderman license means that you don't have to waste time with stories, characters, lore etc, even their gameplay was stolen from the arkham games.
These dudes have been served shit in a silver plate for years, they don't deserve much praise imo.
Let em do an open world the size and amount of content of fw with a completely new world, lore, charas etc. Where they can downright steal the gameplay of other games and watch them taking 5+ years like every other studio.
You know i'm fucking right.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
its not going for a photorealistic look though? It's much more stylized even when compared to Spiderman 2.
I think it will easily exceed ratchet, but wont come close to Hellblade or 1943. We shall see.
GymWolf
Member
Still way more realistic than ratchet, what are we even discussing here? Some vivid colors are not gonna turn the minecraft movie into a pixar movie...
Avatar bet that they don't get even close to the pristine perfection of the robot cantina in ratchet because pixar style is vastly easier to achieve than photorealism with vivid colors
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GymWolf
Member
Just checked wafers on amazon and the loackers family pack still cost the same
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
that was one area. The rest of the game didnt look as good.
But i will take an avatar bet that wolverine looks better than this:
GymWolf
Member
No no no, i already said better than the best in ratchet, you can't pick a shitty looking zone for the comparison, we all know that ratchet only has 2 nextgen locations, the futuristic space city and the cantina, the rest of the game was super meh.that was one area. The rest of the game didnt look as good.
But i will take an avatar bet that wolverine looks better than this:
If you are convinced that wolvy style is more similar to ratchet, you should not have problems believing that they can beat a game with the same style after 5 years of tech advancement, and not jist the ugly parts but the good parts aswell.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Understable.
But lets not pretend GG isnt using procedurally generated trees and foliage to draw their game world. Ive seen videos where they dont even have to drag or drop trees and foliage, they create a box with the mouse and the world detail fills in. Making these big barren open worlds is not easy hard as everyone tells you. the reason why HFW took forever was because its a 100 hour game for some reason.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
ok, avatar bet, it looks like this or better than this:
if I win, this is your avatar for a week.
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